Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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Teslag
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1:39p, 4/18/24
AG
Russian misiniformaiton and disinformation compaigns have swung into high gear domestically on the brink of the passage of US aid. The fear is out of hand at this point from the Russians.

https://therecord.media/russia-disinfo-kicked-into-gear-microsoft


Quote:
Russia's disinformation operations around the U.S. elections have ramped up over the last month-and-a-half after a relatively slow start compared to previous cycles, Microsoft said Wednesday.
The operations use a mix of themes seen in 2020 campaigns with a "renewed focus on undermining US support for Ukraine" as well as efforts to turn U.S. citizens against NATO and to foster domestic infighting.
"Messaging regarding Ukraine via traditional media and social media picked up steam over the last two months with a mix of covert and overt campaigns from at least 70 Russia-affiliated activity sets we track," Microsoft's Threat Analysis Center (MTAC) explained in the new report.
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nortex97
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In reply to Teslag • 1:43p, 4/18/24
AG
Teslag said:
Sorry, but the link I provided clearly stated that their intent was to influence aid, I even bolded it. not just here but everywhere. Russia absolutely does not want this aid to go through.
The German prosecutors made a silly statement when charging these two guys but that's not really the point.

Of course Russia would prefer no more ammo is sent to Kiev. Another non-sequitur.

But, from your link:
Quote:
Ukraine has long warned that Russian spies were active across Europe and working to sabotage its defense against Russia's invasion, in particular in Germany.

Oleksiy Danilov, the former coordinator of Ukraine's war cabinet, told The Times of London last month: "We have made multiple warnings to our German partners about the spy network of Russians that are very active in Germany."

He added: "It is well known the Russians are listening to conversations of German officials and we think this is not the last conversation they have."

Danilov was removed from job and replaced last month as part of a military shake-up by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Again, this guy was just fired so whatever but clearly I am correct per the Ukrainians that the Russians have been spying in Germany for…a very long time. Grasping at straws to say they are 'terrified' of this bill passing is an absurdity/illogical emotional reach at best.

From the link within your link, more Ukrainian regime whining about not getting the 'Israel' treatment:

Quote:
For Kyiv, the apparent double standard comes at a particularly perilous moment.
Ukrainian officials have been sounding the alarm for weeks that without urgent supplies of new military support, Ukraine will be unable to hold off Russian forces that are advancing on the battlefield and assaulting it from the air.

Podolyak's boss, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, made a similarly direct case for support in his nightly address Monday. "European skies could have received the same level of protection long ago if Ukraine had received similar full support from its partners in intercepting drones and missiles," he said.
"We can now see how unity can work," he added.

But the U.S. and its Western partners have made clear their reluctance to go as far in Ukraine as they did in the Middle East.

"U.S. and NATO have been adamant that they will not get into conflict with Russia," said Frank Ledwidge, a former British military intelligence officer and senior lecturer in war studies at England's University of Portsmouth.

"Nobody wants to get involved fighting Russia," he said.
I mean, yeah. Thx for the link.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 6:47p, 4/18/24
AG
Teslag said:
This aid totally won't make a difference and Russia isn't worried about it at all...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-arrests-russia-spy-sabotage-plot-us-military-sites-ukraine-aid-rcna148331


Quote:
MUNICH, Germany Two men have been arrested in Germany on suspicion of spying for Russia and collecting information on potential attack targets, including U.S. military facilities, authorities said Thursday.

The German Federal Prosecutor's office said in a statement that two German-Russian nationals named only as Dieter S. and Alexander J. in line with the country's privacy rules were working with a Russian secret service agent to undermine international military support for Ukraine.


Maybe instead of the sarcasm you could articulate what you think the aid will help Uke accomplish.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:58p, 4/18/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
This aid totally won't make a difference and Russia isn't worried about it at all...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-arrests-russia-spy-sabotage-plot-us-military-sites-ukraine-aid-rcna148331


Quote:
MUNICH, Germany Two men have been arrested in Germany on suspicion of spying for Russia and collecting information on potential attack targets, including U.S. military facilities, authorities said Thursday.

The German Federal Prosecutor's office said in a statement that two German-Russian nationals named only as Dieter S. and Alexander J. in line with the country's privacy rules were working with a Russian secret service agent to undermine international military support for Ukraine.


Maybe instead of the sarcasm you could articulate what you think the aid will help Uke accomplish.


It will accomplish the killing of Russians and the destruction of their equipment. Which is how wars are won.
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Grapes
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In reply to Teslag • 5:31a, 4/19/24
Teslag the unabashed Neocon.
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FJB24
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In reply to Grapes • 6:09a, 4/19/24
Yep, and the vacuous, intellectually infantile attitudes he is known for.



Globalists engender no patriotism, by design.
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nortex97
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6:34a, 4/19/24
AG
A Tu-22 was shot down by Ukraine, also turning back some others with it apparently, near the border. Good hit for the Ukrainians, cutting back on some of the daily cruise missile bombardment of infrastructure. Of course the Russians claim it was 'a malfunction…'



Meanwhile...





I am not a WaPo-Bezos subscriber; I do think Russian armor/air defense production is up tremendously year over year as per the US general in this report…



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PlaneCrashGuy
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9:12a, 4/19/24
AG


Ukraine is slowly shrinking and they are still trying to tell you that Ukraine is winning or can win. The propagandists in media try to revise the definitions of words so they can more easily sell their lies.

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74OA
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10:51a, 4/19/24
AG
"Our military aid to Ukraine is also revitalizing our defense industrial base, creating hot production lines for the weapons we need to deter potential adversaries and creating manufacturing jobs in the United States. That's because 90 percent of the $68 billion in military and related assistance Congress has thus far approved is not going to Ukraine but is being spent in the United States, according to an analysis by Mark Cancian of the Center for Strategic and International Studies."

WHERE IT'S SPENT
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notex
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In reply to 74OA • 12:31p, 4/19/24
AG
74OA said:
"Our military aid to Ukraine is also revitalizing our defense industrial base, creating hot production lines for the weapons we need to deter potential adversaries and creating manufacturing jobs in the United States. That's because 90 percent of the $68 billion in military and related assistance Congress has thus far approved is not going to Ukraine but is being spent in the United States, according to an analysis by Mark Cancian of the Center for Strategic and International Studies."

WHERE IT'S SPENT
Interesting you seem to be making the same post in both threads now. Very transparent.

From an analytical perspective spending taxpayer funds to build weapons to kill people elsewhere is not net stimulative to the American economy, and very inefficient at best when inflation is factored in that the conflict has caused in global energy/food costs.

From a moral perspective, the war is being fought in Ukraine increasingly by the poor who cannot avoid the draft/conscription vans. Funding their 'border security' (but not our own, of course) so they can lock their subjects in the state until the serf population is eradicated functionally is entirely 'unhelpful' aid.

The forever war camp has no solution to the problem, only emotional appeals.
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wtmartinaggie
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In reply to notex • 1:07p, 4/19/24
AG
Has there ever been a war that wasn't fought primarily by the poor? That's kind of a ridiculous counterpoint.

His point that the money is being spent domestically is valid and flies directly in the face of the "dumping money into corrupt Ukraine" narrative. We're sending outdated equipment, spending money that clearly needs to be spent that upgrades our production capacity and asset quality. In return, we're getting a great education on how this equipment performs in an active combat zone, learning how to modify them for the new battlefield, and learning new tactics on the fly and getting our allies off their asses and engaged.

Most importantly, it's not costing us any lives. This is the absolute best return on investment we could have hoped for. It's like 5% of our budget. Compare that to our approach in Iraq or Afganistan. It's a huge bargain. All of the musing over Russia being stronger than it was before this started is shortsighted nonsense. Their resources are finite, and this war-shift based adrenaline rush to their economy is not sustainable, and the best they can hope for is for us to lose nerve and cede territory to them because our population doesnt have the scruples to see this through.

This conflict, and the broader one to follow, have been brewing since the fall of the USSR. It's going to get a lot worse out there in the world before it gets better. We just need to make sure that when it's over, we're the winners.
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notex
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In reply to wtmartinaggie • 1:18p, 4/19/24
AG
It's 100 percent relevant. Democrats are the ones pushing this war and it should be noted every day on the nightly news who is paying the price for the war.

Lawmakers are also profiting far and wide on the war spending and bloodshed;
Quote:
The problem is particularly bad in the defense industry. Congressional stock trading can arguably be seen as "war profiteering" members of cashing in on defense industry stocks at the same time Congress receives updates on the wars in Ukraine and Israel and sets the Pentagon's annual budget, half of which goes to military contractors every year.

The potential for unethical stock trading may be worse for military corporations than any other. With the onslaught of new wars, Congress added $70 billion over the last two years to an already bloated Pentagon budget, much of which is funneled directly into the coffers of defense contractors like Palatir, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman. The stock values in these companies have since experienced double-digit growth a lucrative business opportunity not overlooked by lawmakers calling the shots.

At least 25 members of Congress sitting on national security committees have simultaneously purchased stock in these very same companies. The majority of these members sit on the Senate and House Armed Services committees, the entities responsible for overseeing the Defense Department budget and contracts. Stocks are held by both Republicans and Democrats. Reaping the benefits of the military-industrial-complex is thoroughly bipartisan.

Some of these members include Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.), former chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, who traded in technology companies as the committee battled over a $10 billion cloud computing contract with Microsoft; House Armed Services Committee Rep. Pat Fallon (R-Texas), who sold off his Microsoft stock two weeks before the cloud computing contract was cancelled; and committee colleague Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), whose trades spanned all of the top five military contractors.
So, that's a pretty damn weak argument in 'America's favor.'

Again, there is zero plan for Ukraine to take back the territory Russia has conquered. And yes, Russia's wealthy are richer today and as well their military larger/stronger than it was, so the arguments in favor of this are…specious at best. The best argument I can think of is that it has weakened Germany industrially/militarily, so maybe that is a geopolitical rival that has been undermined.
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nortex97
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5:02a, 4/20/24
AG
Simplicius has a big update, including analyses of the infamous uniparty speaker Mike Johnson diatribe:


Quote:
However, while the pro-Ukrainian crowd rejoices, it's not clear what real benefit the aid would bring, should it pass. For instance, days ago the provisions of the alleged bill had leaked which apparently showed the vast majority of the $48B Ukrainian aid going to various American DOD scams:

If there's any accuracy to the above, it appears that when you take away the civil funds to the Ukrainian government, and the DOD's own beak-wetting double-dip, all that's really left for Ukrainian 'weapons' is about $14B or less. And in fact Johnson appears to confirm this when he says that he changed the bill so that 80% of it now represents replenishment of American stocks, rather than new weapons for Ukraine:
Yet again, this won't make an ounce of difference on the battlefield.



Is that a BBC article?

Also notable that 10 new brigades (from Siberia?) are being reported by MI6 as headed to Ukraine next month as they focus on taking Kharkiv. I recommend reading it, as it's too much to excerpt compactly.





The Russians summarized the week of advances and the weird tank having survived/getting more 'modifications.'

IMF: Russian economy to outgrow all advanced nations this year. This war is not…hurting the 'elites' running Russia one iota.

Senator Rand Paul has a good editorial out about the pathetic, failed sanctions regime Yellen went to lecture China about with respect to both China and Russia. I suppose the war cheerleader brigade in DC has zero introspection about it but it's incredible how the 'isolationist' policies have been such an epic failure.

Forever war, comrades!
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YouBet
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7:34a, 4/20/24
AG
Cool. So if Ukraine got their aid money then there is nothing stopping Biden from re-fixing the border now, right? RIGHT?

He won that game of chicken so now it's time to do something about our own border.
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FJB24
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7:42p, 4/20/24




It's pretty obvious what is happening.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to FJB24 • 8:12p, 4/20/24
AG
Sotero-Judges said:




It's pretty obvious what is happening.


As obvious as it is, there are plenty of folks willing to lap up the Uke is a lil guy fighting the bully narrative. And that narrative will be shared exactly for as long as it is profitable.
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nortex97
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 5:38a, 4/21/24
AG
Correct. It's all on record that Nuland's rent-a-mob Maiden revolution via the $5 billion is how this got started, when the president of Ukraine did not do as the CIA wanted, partnering with Russia instead, so he had to be deposed.



That's when democracy had to end in Ukraine.

This tweet has some profanity so I won't link to it directly out of respect for site TOS but type in a "0" at the end and it does reference the oil-gas interests involved in the 2015 consequential pull out of American businesses after Eastern 'Ukraine' pushed back on the subjugation. This was a critical time period of Biden familia investments/kickbacks/bribery in Ukraine as well.

x.com/mikebenzcyber/status/178178070855537092

It's a partisan war:





You certainly won't find an image of 200 Democrats waiving American flags any time recently. Meanwhile, the Russians continue to advance, including toward Ukraine's 2nd largest city, which is being slowly evacuated.

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Teslag
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6:34a, 4/21/24
AG
It will take the Pentagon less than a week to move many weapons and munitions in to Ukraine now. Any plans Russia had for a successful major offensive are now simply not happening. The is war is a permanent stalemate and will be until Ukraine's pending and eventual accession to NATO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/19/ukraine-us-weapons-house-aid-bill/
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to nortex97 • 6:37a, 4/21/24
AG
The aid passing just means we'll need your updates for a little longer. It wont change the ending, but it could certainly delay it.
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YouBet
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10:05a, 4/21/24
AG
Quote:
At most it has the potential to help Ukraine blunt Russia's relentless attacks and retain territory, potentially letting Kyiv pin down Russian forces until European allies can deliver more assistance next year.


Will be an ongoing tit for tat spend between Europe and the US year after year until they get into NATO which will probably happen this year though.

It will split the country and Zelensky will have to give up his farce of getting the whole landmass back.
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Teslag
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In reply to YouBet • 12:31p, 4/21/24
AG
I would bet dollars to donuts zelensky would be more than happy to trade land he's lost for nato membership
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YouBet
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In reply to Teslag • 12:59p, 4/21/24
AG
Teslag said:
I would bet dollars to donuts zelensky would be more than happy to trade land he's lost for nato membership


Privately, he probably is. Publicly, he's still adamant about taking back Crimea which is absurd. His only fall back negotiating tactic at this point is to get into NATO and that seems inevitable at this point. Never mind they don't meet the requirements but whatevs.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 1:47p, 4/21/24
AG
Teslag said:
I would bet dollars to donuts zelensky would be more than happy to trade land he's lost for nato membership



Z was always going to lose land in this deal. Thats why many advocated for peace talks early on. Everyone else saw this coming.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 2:54p, 4/21/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
I would bet dollars to donuts zelensky would be more than happy to trade land he's lost for nato membership



Z was always going to lose land in this deal. Thats why many advocated for peace talks early on. Everyone else saw this coming.


Peace deals like this?

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia-ukraine-peace-deal-2022-document-6e12e093#


Ya, he's much better off now than if he had accepted that "deal".
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 6:16p, 4/21/24
AG
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
I would bet dollars to donuts zelensky would be more than happy to trade land he's lost for nato membership



Z was always going to lose land in this deal. Thats why many advocated for peace talks early on. Everyone else saw this coming.


Peace deals like this?

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia-ukraine-peace-deal-2022-document-6e12e093#


Ya, he's much better off now than if he had accepted that "deal".


I'm old enough to remember when you said the peace deals didn't exist. Yet another dime in the "conspiracy theories were right" jar. Same as the laptop.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:17p, 4/21/24
AG
And as the WSJ article shows, no peace deal existed.
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bmks270
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6:19p, 4/21/24
AG
What's the limit to how much we will give Ukraine? Or we just keep sending them money every year now?
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 6:20p, 4/21/24
AG
Teslag said:
And as the WSJ article shows, no peace deal existed.


"A draft peace treaty drawn up by Russian and Ukrainian negotiators in April 2022, about six weeks after the start of the war"

From your link. Time to cough up that dime.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to bmks270 • 6:21p, 4/21/24
AG
bmks270 said:
What's the limit to how much we will give Ukraine? Or we just keep sending them money every year now?


Well Russia has been about to "run about of ammo" and on the verge of "demographic collapse" for over 2 years now. I think its safe to say they have no clue.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:22p, 4/21/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
And as the WSJ article shows, no peace deal existed.


"A draft peace treaty drawn up by Russian and Ukrainian negotiators in April 2022, about six weeks after the start of the war"

From your link. Time to cough up that dime.


And if you bothered to read the entire article you'd know it was a "peace deal" at all, but rather demand of Ukrainian subjugation.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 6:24p, 4/21/24
AG
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
And as the WSJ article shows, no peace deal existed.


"A draft peace treaty drawn up by Russian and Ukrainian negotiators in April 2022, about six weeks after the start of the war"

From your link. Time to cough up that dime.


And if you bothered to read the entire article you'd know it was a "peace deal" at all, but rather demand of Ukrainian subjugation.


A peace deal doesn't stop being a peace deal just because you don't like it.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:24p, 4/21/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
bmks270 said:
What's the limit to how much we will give Ukraine? Or we just keep sending them money every year now?


Well Russia has been about to "run about of ammo" and on the verge of "demographic collapse" for over 2 years now. I think its safe to say they have no clue.


And we've been waiting on this successful Russian offense the likes of Simplicious and other Russian state media keep promising us. And it never happens.


It's almost like it's now a perpetual stalemate like we've said. This war is over. Ukraines accession to NATO is going to happen. Just I told you their aid was going to happen. And how Russia was never going to mount a successful offensive.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:25p, 4/21/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
And as the WSJ article shows, no peace deal existed.


"A draft peace treaty drawn up by Russian and Ukrainian negotiators in April 2022, about six weeks after the start of the war"

From your link. Time to cough up that dime.


And if you bothered to read the entire article you'd know it was a "peace deal" at all, but rather demand of Ukrainian subjugation.


A peace deal doesn't stop being a peace deal just because you don't like it.


"Surrender or we will keep killing your people" isn't peace. It's coercion. Especially that Ukraine is far better off now than if they surrendered.
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YouBet
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In reply to bmks270 • 7:09p, 4/21/24
AG
bmks270 said:
What's the limit to how much we will give Ukraine? Or we just keep sending them money every year now?


Every year until NATO admittance and then you will still see US foreign aid along with the usual corporate vulture suspects glomming onto anything they can get their hands on.

It's going to end up being Cold War Germany/Korea with a DMZ.
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Teslag
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In reply to YouBet • 7:49p, 4/21/24
AG
YouBet said:
bmks270 said:
What's the limit to how much we will give Ukraine? Or we just keep sending them money every year now?


Every year until NATO admittance and then you will still see US foreign aid along with the usual corporate vulture suspects glomming onto anything they can get their hands on.

It's going to end up being Cold War Germany/Korea with a DMZ.


I'll allow it
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