Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

474,940 Views | 9104 Replies | Last: 19 hrs ago by OPAG
nortex97
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Hmmm…China, Russia, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan.



Meh, who doesn't have their fingers in 20 shell companies involved with that little set of nice countries.

Let me think about this again; China is the big winner in the Biden proxy-war between Russia and Ukraine, the latter of which was his special envoy mission as VP, Hunter's laptop is all true/proven now, and his familia is on the payroll of the oligarchs on all sides in the war that has left 500K dead, over some nominal scraps of land in places Americans can't name at all.

Tick tock, I guess.

PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

Up early retweeting pro-hamas accounts I see? You couldn't' t someone better to advocate your positions? I mean I get this guy says things you like for clicks, but "simplicious" is literally one of the worst accounts on twitter.




Losing the Uke war? Change the subject!
nortex97
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Yeah, again if we were limited to only citing sources that we agreed with all the time we know some wouldn't cite Elon Musk or Tesla. Funny how that works, for those of us who are more willing to think for ourselves, anyway.

But anyway, the only answer is obviously moar war!!!



(And money, and death, and Ukraine still not existing in 2 or 10 years).

Oh, and as one might expect, with Biden and Zelensky being shown the door (gently, for now), the latter has re-started his campaign against the GOP front-runner:

Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

Up early retweeting pro-hamas accounts I see? You couldn't' t someone better to advocate your positions? I mean I get this guy says things you like for clicks, but "simplicious" is literally one of the worst accounts on twitter.




Losing the Uke war? Change the subject!


I thought was "lost" already?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

Up early retweeting pro-hamas accounts I see? You couldn't' t someone better to advocate your positions? I mean I get this guy says things you like for clicks, but "simplicious" is literally one of the worst accounts on twitter.




Losing the Uke war? Change the subject!


I thought was "lost" already?


Agreed. At least you've finally admitted it. Thanks Tesla.
nortex97
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Interesting, if true.



Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:



Interesting, if true.




Interesting...the Russians are forcing the Ukrainians in their occupied territory to be conscripts and fight against their own country.

Pretty sure that's a war crime...
Teslag
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Weird too, in that Russia is such a highly paid military with no need for conscripts. Seems odd they'd have to resort to this...
Teslag
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Also seems odd that in this occupied areas, where the "elections" resulted in almost 100% support for Russia that would need locals to be conscripted. You'd think they'd want to fight for their new country...
PlaneCrashGuy
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Russia conscripting Russians?
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.
Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

Also seems odd that in this occupied areas, where the "elections" resulted in almost 100% support for Russia that would need locals to be conscripted. You'd think they'd want to fight for their new country...
It's AMAZING how Russia seems to get 100% support in all their elections.

Almost...Stalinesque...
fka ftc
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
And throwing a flag for "war crimes". Its war, rules are set by the Victor or by Ivan in this case.

Funny to watch those with blue and yellow flag tattoos on the calves search furiously for tattoo removal cream as this continues to turn out just as logical, critical thinking folks predicted from day 1.
nortex97
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Yeah I dunno why any of the snark above is even an issue. No sources, just 'Muh, what?'

Tough to even see a point. Is it that Russia isn't actually paying their troops as budgeted/claimed? Russia is using conscription in annexed regions? It's Ukraine about to start conscripting females, or are already, and trying to get the EU to extradite military age refugees to them for use as canon fodder. When actual reports are cited about conditions by UFA troops it's "well, war is hell, that is just how it is.'

Big whatever. Russian elections aren't fair? At least they are having elections next year and not kicking opposition off the ballot. I posted last week regarding Putin's popularity (using discordant polling the state there had declared an enemy), and comparative drop/discord among Ukrainians and their military leadership about saint Zelensky, who refuses to even hold sham elections as required by law.



Russia has favored Democrats since at least RFK's run against Reagan. Iranians and Chinese as well. This war is all about Biden's paymasters. People still think hold some sort of Russian hatred/derangement over post-2016 lies about Russia, imho, among the non-critical-thinking crowd.

It's dropping off the radar at full speed now:



It's absolutely fascinating to see our domestic Ukraine crowd (team CCP-Dem in DC) hold up 'aid' to their pals in Kiev to protect them from the (Biden) Russian invasion because they don't want to stop the Central American invasion here.



Just…sad.



Teslag
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Quote:

US/NATO just sent hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to the slaughter


Right, the US forced Ukraine to defend their country from a hostile invasion and the fault lies not at all with the invader.

The same invader that's now having to conscript (ie force) those that were invaded to fight for them. But it's actually NATO forcing people to fight.

Tied in complete knots with that logic.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.



You're wrong, sorry, but those are Russians. No crime here.
Teslag
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So when we invaded Japan they were then American?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

So when we invaded Japan they were then American?


Another day, another derail. You're welcome to post source data that the people in Russia are Ukrainians.
Teslag
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"In 1991 a coalition led by the United States invaded Iraq and turned millions of Iraqi citizens into Kuwaiti citizens" - plane crash guy probably
PlaneCrashGuy
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Anyone else starting to notice he wants to talk about any war except this one?
Teslag
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I think it's fairly clear we are illustrating the silliness of deciding that Ukrainians are now Russians due to hostile invasion in this war.
Ag with kids
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fka ftc said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
And throwing a flag for "war crimes". Its war, rules are set by the Victor or by Ivan in this case.

Funny to watch those with blue and yellow flag tattoos on the calves search furiously for tattoo removal cream as this continues to turn out just as logical, critical thinking folks predicted from day 1.
It is LITERALLY a war crime (no quotes needed) defined by the 4th Geneva Convention that RUSSIA is a party to.
Teslag
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Remember, that same poster argued there is no such thing as sovereign nations.
Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:

Yeah I dunno why any of the snark above is even an issue. No sources, just 'Muh, what?'

My source was the TWEET you linked and the GENEVA CONVENTIONS...

Quote:

#Russian authorities continued attempts to use military conscription in occupied #Ukraine to augment force generation efforts and legitimize Russia's illegal annexation of #Crimea.
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.



You're wrong, sorry, but those are Russians. No crime here.
No. They're Ukrainian. They've been Ukrainian for a LONG time. And they were citizens of Ukraine...

Kinda like the Mexicans that live down here in S Texas are still Americans, even though they're ethnically Mexican.
Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

Remember, that same poster argued there is no such thing as sovereign nations.
Oh yeah...forgot about THAT fun discussion.
fka ftc
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Teslag said:

Remember, that same poster argued there is no such thing as sovereign nations.
I did not argue, I stated fact.

Sorry such intricate concepts that borders and what is and is not a sovereign nation changes overtime.

Along with your continued derails referencing other wars, you go one along with your buddy who has kids and do not discuss the actual topics at hand but devolve into nonsensical comparisons and snarks.

I really do not give two rats arses if you have a different opinion on whether Ukraine is most sovereign. Under your myopic view of Ukraine v Russia, have you determined whether its Palestine or Israel or the British, or the Assyrians or whom exactly does Jerusalem belong to?

Your arguments are weak because they are not grounded in having an honest discussion on the realities of the Ukraine-Russian conflict.

And the idea that we are going to drag Russia up on war crimes charges? Let me know but it likely occurs after the US is guilty of war crimes over slavery and treatment of transgenders.
fka ftc
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.



You're wrong, sorry, but those are Russians. No crime here.
No. They're Ukrainian. They've been Ukrainian for a LONG time. And they were citizens of Ukraine...

Kinda like the Mexicans that live down here in S Texas are still Americans, even though they're ethnically Mexican.
32 years is a really long time for a cat to live. But in the context of history 32 years does not meet the definition of ALL CAPS 'long'.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.



You're wrong, sorry, but those are Russians. No crime here.
No. They're Ukrainian. They've been Ukrainian for a LONG time. And they were citizens of Ukraine...

Kinda like the Mexicans that live down here in S Texas are still Americans, even though they're ethnically Mexican.


No. They're Russians. Russian conscripts to be precise. They're literally in the Russian army and you're calling them Ukrainian. Its pure delusion. In trying to find something to hold against Russia the pro war side is inventing war crimes.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.



You're wrong, sorry, but those are Russians. No crime here.
No. They're Ukrainian. They've been Ukrainian for a LONG time. And they were citizens of Ukraine...

Kinda like the Mexicans that live down here in S Texas are still Americans, even though they're ethnically Mexican.


No. They're Russians. Russian conscripts to be precise. They're literally in the Russian army and you're calling them Ukrainian. Its pure delusion. In trying to find something to hold against Russia the pro war side is inventing war crimes.


Today I learned that American sailors impressed by the British in the 1800's magically turned into British citizens because they were forced to serve in the British navy
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.



You're wrong, sorry, but those are Russians. No crime here.
No. They're Ukrainian. They've been Ukrainian for a LONG time. And they were citizens of Ukraine...

Kinda like the Mexicans that live down here in S Texas are still Americans, even though they're ethnically Mexican.


No. They're Russians. Russian conscripts to be precise. They're literally in the Russian army and you're calling them Ukrainian. Its pure delusion. In trying to find something to hold against Russia the pro war side is inventing war crimes.


Today I learned that American sailors impressed by the British in the 1800's magically turned into British citizens because they were forced to serve in the British navy


Most of the world was impressed by the British, it was the largest Navy on earth at the time.

Another attempt at derail. We're still waiting on your proof.
Ag with kids
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fka ftc said:

Teslag said:

Remember, that same poster argued there is no such thing as sovereign nations.
I did not argue, I stated fact.

Sorry such intricate concepts that borders and what is and is not a sovereign nation changes overtime.

Along with your continued derails referencing other wars, you go one along with your buddy who has kids and do not discuss the actual topics at hand but devolve into nonsensical comparisons and snarks.

I really do not give two rats arses if you have a different opinion on whether Ukraine is most sovereign. Under your myopic view of Ukraine v Russia, have you determined whether its Palestine or Israel or the British, or the Assyrians or whom exactly does Jerusalem belong to?

Your arguments are weak because they are not grounded in having an honest discussion on the realities of the Ukraine-Russian conflict.

And the idea that we are going to drag Russia up on war crimes charges? Let me know but it likely occurs after the US is guilty of war crimes over slavery and treatment of transgenders.
Why have treaties such as the Geneva Conventions if you just get to make up your own rules when you invade another countries? I mean, Russia DID sign them after all. And then promptly gets to ignore them because Putin and fka have decided that Ukraine is not sovereign once they've been invaded.


BTW, just because you type something doesn't make it fact, even though in your egotistical little mind it does. But, it is always good for a chuckle...

Wait...is THAT the joke you told the waitress in the diner?
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Russia conscripting Russians?
They invaded Ukraine. Those people were Ukrainian. Maybe some were of Russian ethnicity, but it doesn't matter.

And if they were so supportive of Russia, why would they be need to be conscripted?

But, it's nice to know that you support war crimes when the Russians commit them, though.



You're wrong, sorry, but those are Russians. No crime here.
No. They're Ukrainian. They've been Ukrainian for a LONG time. And they were citizens of Ukraine...

Kinda like the Mexicans that live down here in S Texas are still Americans, even though they're ethnically Mexican.


No. They're Russians. Russian conscripts to be precise. They're literally in the Russian army and you're calling them Ukrainian. Its pure delusion. In trying to find something to hold against Russia the pro war side is inventing war crimes.
No. They're Ukrainian citizens in an occupied part of their country being forced to be conscripts.

But, it's funny watching you and fka do gymnastics to provide support for the Russians and Putin.

Maybe staff will be nice and change the title of the thread to "Russia/Ukraine from Putin's Perspective" so it can be more accurate...
PlaneCrashGuy
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You can keep repeating it, but those "Ukrainian's" (who are in Russia & in the Russian Army) are likely shooting at real Ukrainians right now.
nortex97
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Y'all keep going back and forth at each other, whatever. "Ukraine" got smaller today as it has almost all year every day, has less ammo and supplies than yesterday, and is losing the war of attrition in the proxy war Biden's administration facilitated. It's remaining citizenry is much less free today than before the conflict started, with no hope for a free election to change the course of their totalitarian, corrupt government.

Interestingly, from the Russian perspective, many claim Putin has just been too flexible/deferential to Ukraine over the past 10+ years:

Quote:

Sovereign opportunism

Since coming to power 24 years ago, Putin has developed an image as an uncompromising fighter against the enemy, and his promise (of the Chechen war-era) to "waste them in the shi*thouses" tends to be applied to everything, including Ukraine. However, in relations with the West and Kiev, Putin has always been a man of compromise. The principle of his policy in Ukraine (as indeed throughout the post-Soviet region) has been to press for an agreement.

From the gas wars under ex-Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko to the Black Sea Fleet deal under his successor, Viktor Yanukovich, from the Minsk agreements under Pyotr Poroshenko to the Istanbul epic under Vladimir Zelensky, Putin has never beaten Ukraine to death, but has confined himself to slaps in the hope of making his opponent see the point.

This approach is often criticized, but Putin, like Russian elites in general, fundamentally and organically regards Ukraine as a separate country and has always recognized its right to exist. In this paradigm, Kiev itself has to accept an offer that cannot be refused, and, as insurance, Putin has always created a plan B: In order not to depend on Ukraine for gas, bypass pipelines were built; in parallel with the naval treaty, the Crimean operation was developed (and implemented in March-April 2014), and so on.
I dunno. I think it's been a brutal war from both sides. I still fail to see how the 'investment' is worth it to the US, Europe, or Ukraine at this point (nominally for 'freedom' of some sort of notion).

In any case, Russia has expanded their territory this calendar year:

Russia:
January 7: Podgorodnoye
January 10: Soledar
January 11: Opytnoe
January 16: Sol' station
January 19: Kleshcheevka
January 21: Krasnopolye
February 1: Sacco and Vanzetti
February 2: Nikolaevka
February 12: Krasnopolye
February 17: Paraskovievka
February 24: Berkhovka
February 25: Yagodnoye
March 8: eastern part of Bakhmut
March 9: Dubovo-Vasilievka
March 15: Zaliznyanskoye
April 2: Russian flag in the center of Bakhmut
May 20: Bakhmut
May-November: gains more territory than Ukraine during the counteroffensive while being on defense.
December 12: Marinka
December 2023: Andiivka (Pending)

But, hey, Ukraine conquered Robotyne. So, yeah, that village of 4 structures counts, on the other side of the ledger. They have a beach head on the Russian side of the Dnepr. Yay.

Ukraine is left with around 20 million inhabitants today, with horrific demographics.

The Russian's goal wasn't simply territory, but to de-nazify Ukraine and eliminate a hostile power from their doorstep. As such, they consider the operation a success, with more pending as the UFA is self-admittedly now reduced to inducting ineffectual conscripts, who are elderly/female/unwilling and combat ineffective. Biden and American financiers could care less to support them if it means they have to cut off the invasion here (also backed by China, oh by the way).

The war is largely over. Only semantic online diatribes, frontline deaths, and exciting videos remain.
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