Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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Ag with kids
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:45p, 11/28/23
AG
nortex97 said:
What is lacking is the empathy for those Ukrainians sacrificed on the altar of 'Muh, weakening Russia is worth it, and they want to fight!' That assertion has always been betrayed by the 'military age male refugee' population growing in Europe, but also by common sense in a country despotically throwing their remaining young male military age population into a hopeless battle.



The mythologized 'spring counteroffensive' gained something like a dozen square miles and since they have net retreated but we still have suckers in American media who champion this farce, which is amazing. It's a decreasing share of the public, though, which is good.

The same people/politics pushing this (nominally 'to protect Ukrainian sovereignty') domestically are pushing/supporting the invasion of America;



Some of us just won't believe in 'the new current thing…'

Sure would have been nice if Putin hadn't attacked and caused the death of all those Ukrainians.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to fka ftc • 8:49p, 11/28/23
AG
fka ftc said:
Teslag said:
fka ftc said:
Teslag said:




None of this answers the question. It's all a dodge. If Russia has a strong military why have they lost 60% of their gains since March 2022? Why are they completely unable to mount an offensive? Why are they still stuck in a quagmire? Why can't they overpower a bunch of Ukrainians with NATO castoff equipment?
Its not a dodge. Its a direct response you just don't like.

If you want an answer to questions about Russia strategy in the Ukraine, then give Putin or one of his advisors a call and ask him.

Instead, you do exactly what you are trying to ridicule me for, using information available to arrive at a logical conclusion about the current state of affairs with Russia's military. I happen to like my logic and information sourcing better, but you do you.
None of this answers the question. It's all a dodge. If Russia has a strong military why have they lost 60% of their gains since March 2022? Why are they completely unable to mount an offensive? Why are they still stuck in a quagmire? Why can't they overpower a bunch of Ukrainians with NATO castoff equipment?
This is the answer to your question: If you want an answer to questions about Russia strategy in the Ukraine, then give Putin or one of his advisors a call and ask him.

It is impossible for either you or me to say definitively why Putin has not made more progress. Its not like he is out of troops, money, or weaponry. I surmise he is not pushing further because at this point he has determined it is not what he thinks is best. You think its because Zelensky is the world's most effective military strategist who defeated mother russia with a scrappy rag tag force and cast off NATO weapons.

That's not a dodge, its a DIRECT answer to your flippin question. Quit derailing with your "dodge" nonsense.
You didn't answer any of his questions. There were four of them.

But, you did manage to toss in a couple strawmen though so cool for you.
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fka ftc
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In reply to Ag with kids • 10:09p, 11/28/23
fka ftc
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In reply to Ag with kids • 10:10p, 11/28/23
fka ftc
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In reply to Ag with kids • 10:11p, 11/28/23
Seek help. You just don't like the answer, but an answer was provided. Meanwhile, all you got is an obsession.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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LarryElder
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10:31p, 11/28/23
woah this thread is **** show
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LarryElder
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10:34p, 11/28/23
Imagine if UKE had to fight this war on its own wonder how that would go?
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fullback44
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:34p, 11/28/23
AG
nortex97 said:
What is lacking is the empathy for those Ukrainians sacrificed on the altar of 'Muh, weakening Russia is worth it, and they want to fight!' That assertion has always been betrayed by the 'military age male refugee' population growing in Europe, but also by common sense in a country despotically throwing their remaining young male military age population into a hopeless battle.



The mythologized 'spring counteroffensive' gained something like a dozen square miles and since they have net retreated but we still have suckers in American media who champion this farce, which is amazing. It's a decreasing share of the public, though, which is good.

The same people/politics pushing this (nominally 'to protect Ukrainian sovereignty') domestically are pushing/supporting the invasion of America;



Some of us just won't believe in 'the new current thing…'



Entire nations whiped off the earth …. Well it's 23 years from the date that was supposed to happen. We will continue to wait
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nortex97
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In reply to LarryElder • 5:13a, 11/29/23
AG
LarryElder said:
Imagine if UKE had to fight this war on its own wonder how that would go?
The war wouldn't have started. They'd have agreed not to join Nato, and Zelensky would have fulfilled his election campaign commitments to bring peace, which is why he was elected in the first place, along with anti-corruption and the failures in both are why his approval ratings dropped from 71 to 38 percent in his first year in office (2019-2020, before the wider war broke out); not having to face any kind of election is a practical necessity for the great patriot.

That's why in reality Biden is the proximate cause of the war in the first place.



Meanwhile, south of Andriivka UFA are having to actually employ the newest versions of the Leopards, to the usual results;



Europe is weaker from the war, unable to subsidize even energy costs to maintain key manufacturing in Germany now:



Just an ongoing exercise in futility/death;



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Teslag
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8:39a, 11/29/23
AG
The idea that it's Ukraine's fault that Russia attacked them because they wanted to join a defensive pact might be one of, if not my favorite, Russian talking points.
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nortex97
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11:06a, 11/29/23
AG
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fka ftc
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:17a, 11/29/23
Interesting that the same folks who get massive stiffies for Ukraines also cheered TikToks of "overworked: healthcare workers whilst trying to terminate the careers of military professionals for refusing a vaccine.

The human brain is a mysterious thing.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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Teslag
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In reply to fka ftc • 1:44p, 11/29/23
AG
fka ftc said:
Interesting that the same folks who get massive stiffies for Ukraines also cheered TikToks of "overworked: healthcare workers whilst trying to terminate the careers of military professionals for refusing a vaccine.

The human brain is a mysterious thing.

You're quite literally making this up, but continue.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to fka ftc • 9:13p, 11/30/23
AG
fka ftc said:
Seek help. You just don't like the answer, but an answer was provided. Meanwhile, all you got is an obsession.
You did not.

But, that's par for the course.

And I need no help. I'm quite happy in life.

But, I do love when you get called out you accuse others of having an obsession. Sorry you don't like being shown that you are wrong.
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nortex97
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6:37a, 12/2/23
AG


Some interesting theoretical lines; I see the UFA collapse coming up likely leading to the Russians taking Odessa, tbf.







The Zelensky regime is absolutely scum;





Big update on possible coup/shake up to remove saint Zelensky the wonderful (much more at the link);

Quote:
The below clarifies some of the inconsistencies of the AI translation above:
Quote:
Panic among Ukrainian oligarchs.
"The President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky and his team must be overthrown immediately, otherwise the Banderaites will lose the war against Russia, and the moneybags protecting them will lose everything they have acquired through dishonest labor."
Ex-President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko spoke about this in a telephone conversation with oligarch Rinat Akhmetov.
A recording of their conversation was published in the Ukrainian segment of social networks. It is interesting that the current Rada deputy and former President of Ukraine, who became famous in the field of fighting everything Russian, conducts business conversations in Russian.
Poroshenko: "Rinat Leonidovich, these are difficult times, and the time has come to change the situation. I had a conversation with our friends, with our older brothers, so to speak. Shtepsel and Tarapunka, with the letter "E", are preparing to go to Washington to negotiate. But in principle, nothing will work out for them, because they are tired of them, just like they are tired of this whole situation. And they very directly hinted to me that it was necessary..."
Akhmetov (interrupts): "Alekseevich, I understand that they are hinting to you, but without a guarantee I don't even want to discuss anything. I understand what you're getting at, Ermak and the others are tired of everyone."
Akhmetov began to complain that the air defense systems transferred by the West were unable to protect his facilities, and therefore the oligarch was suffering huge losses, but Poroshenko promised full support from the West - any support except financial.
Poroshenko: "Our friends fully support us... There will be help, I promise you. We need to resolve an important issue. Our friends hinted that they themselves have a lot of problems, and we need to support them with our own efforts to invest. Rinat, if we don't resolve this situation, then nothing will save your networks or our business. The Russians [referring to Zelensky's government] will not negotiate with them."
But Akhmetov rudely replied that he was not going to negotiate anything with the Russians, and the guarantees and promises of the West could not be trusted at all - they deceived everyone who came into contact with them.
Poroshenko: "Rinat, I understand. But either we are doing something now and we have a chance to come to an agreement, stop it and save it. Or we will have nothing left."
He emphasized that Valery Zaluzhny and the military are "with them" and are just waiting for a decision, as well as the financial support that they will have to provide to the Ukrainian oligarchs.
Poroshenko: "Our friends said that they had already invested a lot, they covered us too much, negotiated for us with the Russians. Now we need to take everything into our own hands, decisions. We will agree, but we need to act, there is no time."
Akhmetov said he would think about it and asked for a personal meeting.
So, if this call is not 'fake', it represents a gradual maneuvering of Poroshenko, potentially allied with Zaluzhny and other "American backers" to oust Zelensky. Ironically, this is an almost inverse repeat of what happened in 2019 when it was actually Zelensky maneuvering to oust the increasingly unpopular Poroshenko with his own breed of backers.

Some have taken it further, with popular channel ZeRada claiming that the structure for the new post-Zelensky ouster is already being decided:
Will be interesting to see what Hersh's (American) sources' accuracy is;

Quote:
Now, to add to this sizzling drama, Seymour Hersh has come out with the claimas always, originating from his "sources"that Zaluzhny may in fact be secretly negotiating with Russia behind the scenes, with a direct Gerasimov-Zaluzhny line:
Quote:
Secret negotiations? American journalist Seymour Hersh claims, citing anonymous US officials, that Russia and Ukraine are allegedly conducting secret peace negotiations along the Gerasimov-Zaluzhny line, despite the objections of Zelensky and the White House.

In an article on the Substack platform, Hersh wrote that the issue of possible fixation of borders along the current front line with the retention of Crimea and the liberated territories of the DPR, LPR, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions for the Russian Federation is allegedly being discussed; in exchange, an option is being considered in which Kiev could join NATO, but with a commitment that the alliance will not station troops or offensive weapons there.

"The American official said that Zelensky was made to understand that it was not him, but "the military that would solve this problem, and negotiations would continue with or without you." "If necessary, we will pay for your trip to the Caribbean," the American official told me," wrote Hersh.
Two things:

Firstly, many have understandably rolled their eyes at the claim that Russia is ready to give Ukraine the NATO allowance, or is content to simply walk away with Crimea and Donbass. But keep in mind, since this was relayed to Hersh through an alleged "American official," it likely represents just the American side's offers, not what the Russian side is necessarily actually willing to acceptbut who knows.

Either way, I've already written previously about how Zaluzhny may be used as the sort of 'Russian asset' to bring peace, because he doesn't want his troops being needlessly killed. He can be lured with the promise of resuming the conflict later, after much NATO rearming.

In fact, I read a new report which seems completely believable given the somewhat 'strange' and inconsistent tactics of the grand counteroffensive, that essentially Zaluzhny in some ways 'threw' the offensive. Not deliberately sabotaged it per sebut rather that Zelensky really wanted an "all in" approach, maximum meat sacrificed, while Zaluzhny played it extremely safe after the disastrous opening, where the 47th and other brigades were mauled, with the famous Leopard/Bradley orgies of destruction. If you've noticed, since that point, the offensive devolved into a very cagey company-at-a-time approach that seemed more like an endless probative action rather than full on multi-brigade combined arms maneuvers into one direction. According to this opinion, this was a deliberate attempt of Zaluzhny's to countervail the 'orders of sacrifice' and save as many men as possible.

Zaluzhny has been known to be the one calling for defensive fortifications and a retreat from various blood-baths like Bakhmut and Avdeevka, while Zelensky has always pushed forward to not give an inch, same as currently happening in Avdeevka. So it seems Zaluzhny has always been the one most amenable to whatever will save the men's lives.

Now onto the second thing regarding Hersh's claims. The confidante made some tongue-in-cheek mention of Zelensky's 'trip to the Caribbean' being prepared. Ironically, a new such report actually did hit the streets, which claims that a secret operation is already underway to prepare Zelensky's relocation to the U.S.
Whatever, though there is some subterfuge/speculation going on (and desperation from Zelensky obviously with his secret letter to border troops), my guess is the fall of the two cities listed at the top of this post, his time in office is coming to an end quickly now and some form of new borders/line between a remnant of Ukraine and Russia will be announced when that happens. Good news, at last.
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fka ftc
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10:05a, 12/2/23
The geography part is interesting and important. It was one of the first topics GPF expounded on when discussing leaders in general and the American President in particular.

Quote:
"Little shapes the needs and constraints of a leader more than geography. And though geography may change over time, it does so slowly and is therefore critical to understanding the environment in which a particular form of government emerges." - GPF
I've brought this up several times on this thread in discussing Ukraine and Poland as well. Even in the modern era of warfare and country building, realigning, etc geography drives strategy, effectiveness of war assets and the just about every other facet. Its obvious but oft minimized when people discuss ongoing conflicts.

Zelensky is rotten meat in Kiev and needs to be purged. What remains as a question is whether there is anybody better to lead that country. And who is better, a Putin puppet or a US puppet?
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:08a, 12/2/23
AG
Quote:
Some interesting theoretical lines; I see the UFA collapse coming up likely leading to the Russians taking Odessa, tbf.


Your side has being saying this for a year. Russia has zero ability to mount an offensive.
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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:11a, 12/2/23
AG
Quote:
The Zelensky regime is absolutely scum;



It takes quite a perspective to think defending your country against Russian invasion, rather than surrendering like a coward qualifies as scum.

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nortex97
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In reply to fka ftc • 12:46p, 12/2/23
AG
fka ftc said:
The geography part is interesting and important. It was one of the first topics GPF expounded on when discussing leaders in general and the American President in particular.

Quote:
"Little shapes the needs and constraints of a leader more than geography. And though geography may change over time, it does so slowly and is therefore critical to understanding the environment in which a particular form of government emerges." - GPF
I've brought this up several times on this thread in discussing Ukraine and Poland as well. Even in the modern era of warfare and country building, realigning, etc geography drives strategy, effectiveness of war assets and the just about every other facet. Its obvious but oft minimized when people discuss ongoing conflicts.

Zelensky is rotten meat in Kiev and needs to be purged. What remains as a question is whether there is anybody better to lead that country. And who is better, a Putin puppet or a US puppet?
My two cents are a more nationalist-minded, if slightly pro-Moscow leadership in Ukraine is more likely to lead to peace/stability. Part of the delicate balancing interests will be those between the remaining Ukrainian people's actual interests, and the ruling class that has been promised (and has already) many profits in the reconstruction/war via blackrock etc. for 'infrastructure' projects. Neither Moscow, nor Biden/Langley really are aligned with the people here, and of course the CCP is involved too (Blackrock etc.
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nortex97
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6:22a, 12/3/23
AG






To the victor go the spoils and all that.



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nortex97
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1:09p, 12/3/23
AG


Let's keep an eye on how Blackrock and the CCP/Joe Biden are handling various 'investments in 'market development banks' and renewable energy (in 'emerging markets') moving forward; $4 trillion is…the real payoff, backed by UN/American taxpayer subsidies of course.

Quote:
MDBs, which were first created to help rebuild a war-ravaged Europe in the 1940s, are being reimagined for the era of climate change. Prominent voices calling for reform include US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, French President Emmanuel Macron and Barbados Prime Minister Mia Mottley, with demands for a meaningful overhaul set to play a major role during COP28 talks.

The authors of the BlackRock report argue that MDBs need to be able to "backstop initial losses" that are likely to be associated with emerging market infrastructure investments, particularly climate-related projects. Fink has previously suggested that institutions like the World Bank would be most useful in the transition to clean energy if they acted like insurers that reduce risk for private investors.
Quote:
Emerging-market economies will make up over half of energy demand and carbon emissions by 2050, and are set to "define the speed and shape of the global transition," BlackRock said. "As proposed reforms take shape, we see the potential for private capital to find new investment opportunities as part of filling the EM climate financing gap."

To date, most of the world's climate investments have been concentrated in the US, Europe and China. Annual clean energy investment in emerging markets has flat-lined since 2015, hovering around $250 billion per year, according to the International Energy Agency. Overall, climate-related investment needs across emerging markets are 17-24 times bigger than recently estimated public commitments, BlackRock estimates.

As part of its risk-diversification recommendations, BlackRock suggests that greater MDB participation in AAA-rated bond issuance could also crowd in private capital. Existing grants or loans are "too targeted on funding individual projects" and that money would be better used to "mitigate risks more broadly," it said.
Another proposed model is "puttable green bonds," whereby MDBs would commit to buy the bonds if their price falls to a preset level, reducing investor risk and helping to cut issuers' borrowing costs, BlackRock said.
The scam is fairly well laid out already, and as one might expect it has nothing to do really with the ostensible animosity between Kiev and Moscow, but rather the oligarch's interests.
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nortex97
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5:39a, 12/4/23
AG














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Stat Monitor Repairman
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11:29a, 12/4/23
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fka ftc
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 1:29p, 12/4/23
They shoved KJP aside again today to have the white planation managers provide an update on Israel and Ukraine.

They keep saying funding for Ukraine will dry up by end of year unless congress acts. Terms accepted.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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nortex97
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1:43p, 12/4/23
AG
Quote:
When and how will the war end?

Bloomberg reports a "sense of gloom" in Ukraine and the Wall Street Journal admits that "Moscow holds the advantage on the military, political and economic fronts." The prominent American military commentator Michael Kofman, often treading a fine line between professional analysis and pro-Western bias, is close to facing reality. Still insisting that "it's inaccurate to suggest that Russia is winning the war," he acknowledgesthat "if the right choices are not made next year on Ukraine's approach and Western resourcing, then Ukraine's prospects for success look dim." He also suggests that Kiev should shift to the defensive. Frankly, it has already, and it had no choice.

Yet a defensive strategy cannot achieve Ukraine's official war aims, because they include retaking territory from Russia. For Ukraine, Kofman's "right choices" imply giving up on that. Former war monger and Zelensky adviser and now foe Aleksey Arestovich, for one, has correctly spotted that fact. Such an outcome is called "losing." Redefining it as a form of "success" a shifting of goalposts popular in the West now comes across as a clumsy attempt to rationalize and sell a defeat.

Regarding "right choices" for the West, despite desperate clarion calls by the Cold War re-enactor and Ukraine proxy war booster Tim Snyder and the US grand strategy maitre penseur Walter Russell Mead, the West may continue some funding of Ukraine, but it is unlikely to once again up the ante. Why would it, when all its previous strategies economic, military, diplomatic, and by information war have failed at great cost? What is happening instead is an American attempt to shift more of the burden of the proxy war onto the EU.

If Donald Trump wins the US elections in less than a year, then that trend is certain to accelerate, as even British state broadcaster BBC has long recognized. Western observers who think that this is a reason for Russia to be in no hurry to makepeace before November 2024 are probably right.
End game. It would in fact be quite ironic if Zelensky is ultimately dethroned by DJT's re-election.

Clown world;





Russian trade surges from 11th to 5th largest trading partner with Brazil.
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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:54p, 12/4/23
AG
I like how Russian state media had to summarize Russia having to beg Brazil for lower quality imports because they lost trading ability with the US and Europe.



Quote:
"We can provide Russia with a lot of equipment and technology that was previously imported, for example, from European countries or the US," Soares said.

Good Ol' Ruskies, still know how to put lipstick on a pig.
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nortex97
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In reply to Teslag • 2:05p, 12/4/23
AG
Teslag said:
Were you expecting the blitzkrieg? It will be slow and methodical until there's a breach. Which is looking more likely by the day in the south.

Which should make you happy, because that will push peace faster and our tax dollars less used.
Good call.



Meanwhile, Biden puppets lamenting the House won't pass another hundred billion for Ukraine by the end of the month.
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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:08p, 12/4/23
AG
Anything not true with post? They will still probably breach in the south. But that won't win them the east or Crimea.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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2:11p, 12/4/23


US seems to be struggling with this concept over the past few years decades.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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4:46p, 12/4/23
AG
This thing is still on?

Ukraine running out of time.
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samurai_science
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 4:48p, 12/4/23
PlaneCrashGuy said:
This thing is still on?

Ukraine running out of time.
Inflation to fund it is
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:42p, 12/4/23
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
This thing is still on?

Ukraine running out of time.


Till what? Russia is unable to mount any real offensive.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 7:50p, 12/4/23
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:


US seems to be struggling with this concept over the past few years decades.
Proxy wars mean your proxies have to do the fighting.

Sending US planes up for air support would mean directly engaging the Russians.

THAT is how WWIII gets started.
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nortex97
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In reply to Teslag • 4:45a, 12/5/23
AG
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
This thing is still on?

Ukraine running out of time.


Till what? Russia is unable to mount any real offensive.




The "good guys" fighting for "freedom:"







Everything is going to plan:



Russia can't take anything:

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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 6:31a, 12/5/23
AG
Not a single thing you posted shows that Russia is even slightly capable of mounting a real offensive. 6 months ago it was 200 tanks per month. Then Ukraine was crumbling any day. And yet here we still are. Nothing different. Just the same old sources regurgitating the same old Russian propaganda. Just reworded to be reconsumed. They are frozen along the eastern line and they know it.
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