Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

525,680 Views | 9433 Replies | Last: 23 hrs ago by PlaneCrashGuy
Teslag
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Quote:

So what if it's a parody



The point of the ridicule is that in desperate search for confirmation bias he didn't even bother to see it was parody.

You'd be wise to sometimes do the same.
nortex97
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Will he:

-retire to Italy, Israel or Miami (I believe he has properties in all 3)?
-die of suspicious causes?
-be appointed to the US senate for the next Dem vacancy?

No one really knows.

The mockery of Him seems to have stepped up the past few weeks:



J. Walter Weatherman
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When this new version "Ukrainians are mass surrendering" rumor is false (again) will you finally start to question if the "sources" you're consistently using are accurate?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Surrender? We can hope.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
nortex97
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

When this new version "Ukrainians are mass surrendering" rumor is false (again) will you finally start to question if the "sources" you're consistently using are accurate?
What's funny is that war proponents are avid followers of this thread, though the more intelligent ones are mostly just lurkers on it, I believe. And to be fair/full disclosure, I do check in on the 'tactical and strategic' thread once a week or so, primarily for chuckles at the fandom there.

What is your estimate of Ukrainian deaths to date (in military service) in this glorious war against Russia for their freedom/fascist government in Kiev? I'm genuinely curious if you have a reasonable figure in mind or even care. Do you think there is a point at which the KIA/wounded in action levels will cause political problems/more surrenders/defections to the Russians?
J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

When this new version "Ukrainians are mass surrendering" rumor is false (again) will you finally start to question if the "sources" you're consistently using are accurate?
What's funny is that war proponents are avid followers of this thread, though the more intelligent ones are mostly just lurkers on it, I believe. And to be fair/full disclosure, I do check in on the 'tactical and strategic' thread once a week or so, primarily for chuckles at the fandom there.

What is your estimate of Ukrainian deaths to date (in military service) in this glorious war against Russia for their freedom/fascist government in Kiev? I'm genuinely curious if you have a reasonable figure in mind or even care. Do you think there is a point at which the KIA/wounded in action levels will cause political problems/more surrenders/defections to the Russians?


Would you like to answer the question first? There's no credible evidence of any mass surrendering or defections to the Russians, just a blogger who quoted himself twice, used a photo from last year and then is apparently citing a podcast that also has no evidence outside of a "secret radio channel". Just like the last time "anonymous sources" reported they were surrendering en masse and it proved to be bs.

And I don't have an accurate estimate, not sure anyone does at this point with so much misinformation floating around and no great way to track them.

There may be a point where Ukraine decides that settling pretty much where the borders are currently is a better solution than continuing to fight and try to take back more of their country - most likely how this will end in my opinion and probably once the US and others decide to stop helping, hopefully with them also joining NATO so Russia doesn't just do this again in a few years. But clearly they aren't there yet, and since it's their country that's being invaded I'm not going to tell them when they should give up.
GAC06
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Community notes already doing work on your latest propaganda
nortex97
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LOL, you have no idea how many have been killed, that's pretty funny. Thank you for the confirmation.

To your question:

Quote:

When this new version "Ukrainians are mass surrendering" rumor is false (again) will you finally start to question if the "sources" you're consistently using are accurate?
No, I will not commit to an open ended 'don't use (any) sources walter weatherman/Teslag oppose/dislike if they are unsatisfied at some point that something doesn't happen/isn't proven to their satisfaction.' Thank you for asking again though. You've again proven your apathy/ignorance about the real human cost to Ukraine of this war, and commitment to not caring about the truth. There are many casualty estimates available, from a wide array of sources including leaked US intelligence. I believe the figure for Ukraine is around 350K-500K.

From July (note, this is coming from a Ukrainian source, not a Russian one):

Quote:

I had forgotten to post this a while back. Ukrainian journalist Roman Revedzhuk who had previously run for office and was involved in Ukrainian politics for a long time revealed that he had received an insider report from the SBU that Ukraine had more than 310,000 KIA as of July:
[url=https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F57819f25-1bb3-4e39-8d4d-1d6df4c0f281_748x776.jpeg][/url]

I do believe that the war proponents globally (WEF/blackrock/British gov't/CCP/Democrats etc., and on this forum), like you have zero concern for actual Ukrainians, which is very sad from a human perspective.

But anyway, the "Volga" 149.200 channel for the UFA folks to surrender is only a few weeks old (well, maybe a bit over a month or so now); this actually dovetails into the casualty discussion:

Quote:

He even says some divisions have even worse casualty figures. How much worse can you get than 80-90% casualty rates?

The fact is that it's becoming increasingly clear that some of the worst, most extreme predictions on Ukrainian losses could in fact be true. This extends to things like POW captures, for instance with yesterday's new report that already 3,500 AFU soldiers had surrendered since the launch of Russia's new project to have a special "surrender frequency" on all radio channels where Ukrainians can dial in and safely surrender to Russian forces:
Quote:

Since the launch of the Volga project, where the Armed Forces of Ukraine are invited to go to the frequency of 149.200 for surrender, just over 3,500 enemy soldiers and officers have voluntarily surrendered. In fact, a whole brigade of "counter-offensive".
The problem is, this project is only a few months old. That means 3,500 have surrendered just since July or so when I believe it was launched. That would explain the sudden uptick to 18k total POWs, as the new radio channel made it very convenient for AFU to surrender safelywhich had classically been one of the main barriers preventing their surrender. They feared by going out into an open field, etc., they would be shot by jumpy snipers or anyone not seeing their makeshift white flag.

But the new channel allows them to fully coordinate the surrender with opposing Russian forces, who give them instructions where and how to do it and then inform all nearby friendlies not to fire on the Ukrainian troops.
J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

LOL, you have no idea how many have been killed, that's pretty funny. Thank you for the confirmation.

To your question:

Quote:

When this new version "Ukrainians are mass surrendering" rumor is false (again) will you finally start to question if the "sources" you're consistently using are accurate?
No, I will not commit to an open ended 'don't use (any) sources walter weatherman/Teslag oppose/dislike if they are unsatisfied at some point that something doesn't happen/isn't proven to their satisfaction.' Thank you for asking again though. You've again proven your apathy/ignorance about the real human cost to Ukraine of this war, and commitment to not caring about the truth. There are many casualty estimates available, from a wide array of sources including leaked US intelligence. I believe the figure for Ukraine is around 350K-500K.

From July (note, this is coming from a Ukrainian source, not a Russian one):

Quote:

I had forgotten to post this a while back. Ukrainian journalist Roman Revedzhuk who had previously run for office and was involved in Ukrainian politics for a long time revealed that he had received an insider report from the SBU that Ukraine had more than 310,000 KIA as of July:
[url=https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F57819f25-1bb3-4e39-8d4d-1d6df4c0f281_748x776.jpeg][/url]

I do believe that the war proponents globally (WEF/blackrock/British gov't/CCP/Democrats etc., and on this forum), like you have zero concern for actual Ukrainians, which is very sad from a human perspective.

But anyway, the "Volga" 149.200 channel for the UFA folks to surrender is only a few weeks old (well, maybe a bit over a month or so now); this actually dovetails into the casualty discussion:

Quote:

He even says some divisions have even worse casualty figures. How much worse can you get than 80-90% casualty rates?

The fact is that it's becoming increasingly clear that some of the worst, most extreme predictions on Ukrainian losses could in fact be true. This extends to things like POW captures, for instance with yesterday's new report that already 3,500 AFU soldiers had surrendered since the launch of Russia's new project to have a special "surrender frequency" on all radio channels where Ukrainians can dial in and safely surrender to Russian forces:
Quote:

Since the launch of the Volga project, where the Armed Forces of Ukraine are invited to go to the frequency of 149.200 for surrender, just over 3,500 enemy soldiers and officers have voluntarily surrendered. In fact, a whole brigade of "counter-offensive".
The problem is, this project is only a few months old. That means 3,500 have surrendered just since July or so when I believe it was launched. That would explain the sudden uptick to 18k total POWs, as the new radio channel made it very convenient for AFU to surrender safelywhich had classically been one of the main barriers preventing their surrender. They feared by going out into an open field, etc., they would be shot by jumpy snipers or anyone not seeing their makeshift white flag.

But the new channel allows them to fully coordinate the surrender with opposing Russian forces, who give them instructions where and how to do it and then inform all nearby friendlies not to fire on the Ukrainian troops.



Yes, you seem very concerned for Ukrainians and are so incredibly noble and clearly not only updating this thread daily because you don't like who is in the White House. I'm sure they appreciate your concern, but I think Ukrainians can make those decisions for themselves.

And since it seems to be forgotten or unmentioned in all of your "sources", none of this would be happening if Putin hadn't invaded and every Ukrainian death is 100% on his hands - although I'm sure you'll continue to blame Biden/blackrock/the WEF/whatever latest boogeyman takes the blame away from the country that started this war.
nortex97
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Quote:

clearly not only updating this thread daily because you don't like who is in the White House.
While I clearly don't like the occupant of the White House, and feel his treason has contributed significantly to the war, I also see it as counter to American interests, and Ukrainian ones alike. Even the current disgraced administration has concerns about corruption, as well, which is at this point inevitable in all that the Bidens touch:



A proxy commander, ordering people to their death by the hundreds of thousands, for a few kilometers of land, to mask his corruption/graft and damage America is significant and yes worth following to me. I again am a bit…surprised you have again demonstrated utter apathy toward the grunts forced to their death (they aren't 'volunteers') and Biden's (Ukrainian/CCP) corruption, alike. I would think the war 'proponents' would at least be clamoring for the Russian billionaires who have paid millions to the Biden to be included on the US sanctions (like the widow of the former mayor of Moscow), but again I guess that is less fun than posting fun videos of tanks getting hit. Enjoy your moral high ground, though.
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

Quote:

clearly not only updating this thread daily because you don't like who is in the White House.
While I clearly don't like the occupant of the White House, and feel his treason has contributed significantly to the war, I also see it as counter to American interests, and Ukrainian ones alike. Even the current disgraced administration has concerns about corruption, as well, which is at this point inevitable in all that the Bidens touch:



A proxy commander, ordering people to their death by the hundreds of thousands, for a few kilometers of land, to mask his corruption/graft and damage America is significant and yes worth following to me. I again am a bit…surprised you have again demonstrated utter apathy toward the grunts forced to their death (they aren't 'volunteers') and Biden's (Ukrainian/CCP) corruption, alike. I would think the war 'proponents' would at least be clamoring for the Russian billionaires who have paid millions to the Biden to be included on the US sanctions (like the widow of the former mayor of Moscow), but again I guess that is less fun than posting fun videos of tanks getting hit. Enjoy your moral high ground, though.


Another post without a single shred of blame at Putin's feet. It's brilliant if you think about it.
Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:

So what if it's a parody, it's…pretty true/on point. Besides…the actual Elon account has been dropping some Ukraine truth bombs the past 24 hours.





Including calling out the Ukro-nazi supporters in canada;





This effing guy…



Not to be outdone by Liz effing Cheney, who is somehow even more contemptible.









Nationalist party wins in Slovakian election, backing Russia.


I like the last Xeet. Especially the reader context...

It was made even better when you doubled down on the Xeet in your next post...
nortex97
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Try to keep up.



Meanwhile...

GAC06
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Community notes is biased, y'all. Here's what RT says.

At least it's not a parody account I guess.
Teslag
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GAC06 said:

Community notes is biased, y'all. Here's what RT says.

At least it's not a parody account I guess.

"The first image was from April of 2022, here's the real one from TASS"





Quote:

The Russian News Agency TASS (Russian: , tr. Informatsionnoye agentstvo Rossii, or Information agency of Russia), abbreviated TASS (), is a Russian state-owned news agency founded in 1904. It is the largest Russian news agency and one of the largest news agencies worldwide.
TASS is registered as a Federal State Unitary Enterprise, owned by the Government of Russia



J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

Try to keep up.



Meanwhile...




At least he removed all potential appearance of neutrality by quoting literal Russian propaganda. Now there's no doubt where this latest fake "Ukraine is surrendering" story is coming from.
Teslag
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I do like the evolution from "I'm just asking questions" to "I'm just trying to be unbiased" to "i'm just offering another perspective" to "**** it, I'm just going to link Russian state media articles".


I wish more posters would just be upfront and honest like that.
nortex97
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Finally, the mythological 'counter-offensive' has begun!
nortex97
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For any thinking conservatives, lining up on foreign policy/war with GCF and Chrystia Freeland should be a bit of a wake up call.



Iran, Russia's 2nd most critical ally and probably primary foreign supplier of weapons, has an Obama-Biden spy ring revealed:





Losses.

Americans and Euro's alike grow sick and tired of funding Ukraine proxy war:

Quote:

Europe's bills have grown on a number of counts, primary being the energy prices, directly attributable to the Ukraine-Russia war, which have added to the economic morass that global slowdown has slapped. The cost-of-living crisis is not over yet.

Recent events in the US and Europe, both West and the East, added to surveys conducted among the populace of these regions don't augur well for Ukraine. The mix of omens for Ukraine becomes darker when the internal political compulsions of these countries is considered. Ukraine itself has not helped matters, childishly attacking the likes of Poland on open forums, such as the United Nations General Assembly.

Opinion polls unfavourable for Ukraine

Surveys among Americans and major countries of western Europe have thrown up findings that indicate that people no more support measures to help Ukraine, especially military and monetary aid to help Ukraine fight Russia with the same enthusiasm that was seen earlier. These surveys were carried out by Bruegel. They evidence that people in countries such as Poland, Italy, Germany, France and Spain are slowly but certainly growing weary of financial aid to Ukraine.

Domestic politics: 'let's take care of ourselves, first'

This leads to the next problematic point for Ukraine. The direct fallout of this crisis is an anti-Ukraine rhetoric that Opposition parties in these countries have amped up 'let's take care of ourselves, first'. The narrative has started resonating with people as several significant European players and the US are heading for general polls to decide their next national leadership.

In the latest example of how internal political compulsions can wreck hitherto dominant policy stance on Ukraine is the US shutdown deal that has left Kyiv hanging out to dry. While President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was recently in Washington to drum up support for more aid, the compromise deal has dropped new funding for Ukraine amid solid opposition from hardline Republicans. Despite vehement exhortations from President Joe Biden, the wider message that has gone out to the larger world: not just Republicans, even Democrats can leave Kyiv in the cold owing to compulsions of domestic politics in the run up to the 2024 presidential elections.
I laughed that Breitbart now has a "Ukraine Forever War" article section.

nortex97
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If the UK and the US are politically/practically forced to scale back weapons to Kiev this winter…peace might have a chance.
Teslag
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So Russia coudn't roll Ukraine before they got NATO weapons, and now is losing ground to Ukraine with their hand me down NATO weapons, all without any CAS, and their milblogger parrot thinks NATO itself couldn't roll Russia with their own troops, top of the line weapons, and air support?


And you believe that?
notex
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Teslag said:

So Russia coudn't roll Ukraine before they got NATO weapons, and now is losing ground to Ukraine with their hand me down NATO weapons, all without any CAS, and their milblogger parrot thinks NATO itself couldn't roll Russia with their own troops, top of the line weapons, and air support?


And you believe that?


None of that is what nortex posted, just your usual lies and snark. "Cry me a river" could be your next username.
Teslag
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It's literally addressing the tweet he posted stating that NATO proper could not defeat Russia in conventional warfare.
nortex97
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Sigh…Moran also has a brother who is the chair of the Virginia democrat party and some other clients include Qatar, general dynamics, integrated defense technologies... A "New Democrat" who clearly values freedom and would never tolerate a bigot like their former governor.

https://moranstrategies.com

So disgusting.

Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

So Russia coudn't roll Ukraine before they got NATO weapons, and now is losing ground to Ukraine with their hand me down NATO weapons, all without any CAS, and their milblogger parrot thinks NATO itself couldn't roll Russia with their own troops, top of the line weapons, and air support?


And you believe that?
He started a conversation...
Ag with kids
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notex said:

Teslag said:

So Russia coudn't roll Ukraine before they got NATO weapons, and now is losing ground to Ukraine with their hand me down NATO weapons, all without any CAS, and their milblogger parrot thinks NATO itself couldn't roll Russia with their own troops, top of the line weapons, and air support?


And you believe that?


None of that is what nortex posted, just your usual lies and snark. "Cry me a river" could be your next username.
It is EXACTLY that...

Did you not read the tweet???
Illuminati Overlord
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Here's the real perspective, white people that are guilty of slavery in America want to brainwash black people not only with Critical Race Theory, that we're all the same so if you get reparations then so does Mexican migrants, or the white people too right? So Russia is the boogey man that those that are genuinely guilty of slavery try to brainwash black or African Americans into believing are more evil white people then the nice ones that enslaved them in America.

Like when the southerners tell black people that white people in the north are more racist, then they experience racist whites up north and are mind blown that those southerners were right, and back to the plantation because at least they're so nice to them.
nortex97
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I mean, just repeat the lie that this war's outbreak had nothing to do with nato expansion. Nothing at all.

Lovely people.



Propaganda everywhere…





PlaneCrashGuy
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"Russia is winning"

Straight from the horses mouth, Lesia.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
SockStilkings
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Let's not gloss over the mention of them "purchasing" land for more graveyards.

I am sure this land is bought at a market rate and using locally raised funds. But we know the land is probably the most valuable real estate in all of Europe, the funds were provided by the US, and the land was purchased from Rosemont-Sinae holdings.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

"Russia is winning"

Straight from the horses mouth, Lesia.


What should she say when requesting more aid?

"We are fine and don't really need anything"?
Teslag
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And if Russia is tired of nato expansion maybe they should stop giving reasons for countries to voluntarily join a defensive pact that grew in size directly because of the 2022 unprovoked invasion.
nortex97
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Yeah, and while their censorship efforts (and imprisonment of a grandma for likes on social media) alternate between comical and sad, I LOL'ed that this one came up on my feed for being re-tweeted by the "US Ministry of Truth."







The House will get all the attention/drama this week, but in a couple weeks someone is going to have to decide to approve or not more billions to Kiev, with an (R) behind their name.

But anyway, clearly even Democrats are getting sick of funding this war.
Teslag
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Quote:

But anyway, clearly even Democrats are getting sick of funding this war.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/04/ukraine-poll-republican-support/


Quote:

Overall, the Chicago Council poll found that 63 percent of U.S. adults support providing additional arms and military supplies to the Ukrainian government. Democratic support stands at 77 percent, barely changed from 79 percent in the summer of 2022. Among independents, support has fallen eight points to 60 percent. Among Republicans, support now stands at 50 percent.
nortex97
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Almost $100K in sales tax, so at least some of that money stayed in the US I guess.

Sitrep today: the long fall.



Quote:

And the fact is, this is not something you can turn around even if you wanted to. The way military support works is your logistics chains from many months ago are critical to the efforts of today. What would be essential to a hypothetical Ukrainian spring 2024 offensive would need to be heavy arms shipping now. The fact that there is nothing new of note being shipped means Ukraine's near and medium term future look stark.

CNN and others had forecast this gloomy change weeks ago:



Now, in a desperate plea to reengage the public on the putative 'threat' that Russia poses in defeating Ukraine, the globalist scriptwriters have rolled out a new narrative: saving Ukraine means saving Taiwan from China. You can see thisas usualin the orchestrated nature of the sudden, totally aligned messaging, which has clearly been sent down as 'guidance' from above.
There's zero logical connection between 'saving Ukraine" and Taiwan. It's been funny to hear that one echoed in unison though.

Meanwhile, Russia continues to build up forces/munitions:


Quote:

Quote:

Ukrainian telegram channel "Resident": The Biden administration is going to reduce funding for Ukraine three times, our enemy, on the contrary, is setting a record military budget.
"Putin is preparing for eternal war." Spending on the army in the Russian budget will increase to a record since USSR times, - The Moscow Times.
According to journalists, for the first time the army and factories of the military-industrial complex will receive more than $200 billion.
"Such military expenditures have never occurred in the entire modern history of Russia."
Is it worth talking about the results on the battlefield next year, when the enemy will build a UAV production plant, produce thousands of new Lancets, and receive new MLRS from the DPRK.
It is not difficult to predict the results of such preparations for Ukraine, especially considering the failures on the international track.
The early results of these increases are already showing on the battlefield. Russia's drone production is said to be skyrocketing to such levels that each month brings verified new highs of usages that are literally doubling and tripling the previous months:
Here's a chart showing Russian drone (Lancets and FPVs) and UMPK glidebomb usage before the counteroffensive (blue) and afterwards (red):


Again a discussion of casualties/depopulation ensues with sources, at the link, but I'll forego pasting here to keep it sort of short. Conclusions are about right:

Quote:

If funding truly collapses, and Russia ups the pressure during the winter, with a high intensity strike campaign on Ukraine's infrastructure, then I don't see how Ukraine even makes it past spring 2024. Even heavily pro-Ukrainian observers are starting to see the writing on the wall, like this one, who wrote a Twitter thread describing how hopeless the situation now seems:
Quote:

I've been wanting to say this for a while, but now it looks the writing is on the wall. I believe that Ukraine is on the verge of LOSING THIS WAR. (A thread)

Russia is: -Bolstering military spending and weapons production despite sanctions -Improving technology rapidly (Deadlier Lancets, aviation, and glide bombs) -Bolstering already complex defense lines in the south -New railway line to significantly reduce logistical problems

Ukraine is: -Losing popular support abroad (Slovakian election, drama with Poland, US cuts aid) -Keeps launching disastrous attacks with unsustainable losses in equipment, only to result in no reward -Counteroffensive at a halt -Shortage of manpower with no easy fix

It doesn't matter that Russia failed to take Kyiv, Odesa, or Kharkiv. The very fact that Russia got away with doing a 20th century style land grab and emerged stronger than before is a ALREADY WIN FOR RUSSIA.

So what is there to do about this? My advice to pro-Ukraine people is this: Don't be depressed about something you cannot control. Stop engaging with people you hate on the internet. Instead, improve your own life, like going to the gym. Gym is the best copium, and it will help.

I remain pro-Ukraine, and this is still all speculation. However, it seems increasingly likely that we are nearing the end of the conflict, with Ukraine unable to recover its lost territories. I hope I'm wrong about all this, but I have little to no hope left.
That being said, though Westerners and Ukrainians are starting to admit Ukraine can't win, they're still clinging to the face-saving cope that Russia can only achieve a freezing of the conflict at best. I think they're going to be in for a very rude awakening. Russia is only just beginning to ramp up its industries and has not even attempted or begun any major offensive maneuvers yet.

That being said, as a final caveat, I don't think Russia is in a hurry or needs to launch massive offensives even by spring of 2024. As Kirby just said, "Time is not our friend"the West is admitting that time favors Russia. I had previously stated that if Ukraine chooses to somehow cling on to the last man, Russia could choose to continue the current pace of attritional warfare well throughout 2024 and into 2025 until Ukraine is too battered to continue even defending. But it will all depend on whether allies find enough resolve to sustain Ukraine in at least a 'moderate' level, giving them just enough to defend themselves, or whether solidarity completely collapses and they pull the plug entirely on Ukrainian support.
Forever war, comrades, if, that is, the next US House speaker supports sending more, asap.
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