I thought a world war would look like more than two countries fighting. Like maybe most of the world would be… at war. My bad I guess.

I'm done crop dusting this thread. I'll check back next week.

Unlike some people, the Ukrainians aren't little *****es

I'd argue we've fought WWIII as the cold war, this is more WWIV or even V we're dabbling off into.

Good morning, Ags. Slept in, sorry, after staying up to watch the Ags last night in baseball. Err, sorry, this afternoon in my Moscow time zone.

Anyway, on to the updates today. Russia is actually spending relatively little on the war effort by any comparison.

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Their article begins thusly:

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Since russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022 it has caused enormous damage. Thousands of people have died and billions of dollars' worth of infrastructure has been destroyed in Ukraine. Yet all this damage has come at a relatively mild cost to Russia. As we have reported, its economy is holding up much better than almost anyone expected. And the direct fiscal cost of the warwhat it is spending on men and machinesis surprisingly low.

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What's most interesting is that typically such articles would try desperately to find some 'silver lining' for their audience, expose some weakness by which Russia is actually being hurt despite these figures. But they were able to find nothing. The article gives reasons for why the expenditures are so low, which include:

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Plus, the technology underpinning armed forces today is more advanced than ever, which means militaries require fewer people and machines for a war effort.

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All they could find to gloat about was that Russia incurred many sanctions and lost energy dominance in Europe. But does it look like Russia is the worse for wear on that account?

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So much for all of those devastating sanctions and economic decoupling hurting the Russian oligarchs/wealthy types, I guess. Weird.

I see some have been intrigued by my use of the term 'myth' regarding the great Ukrainian spring offensive of 2023. Budanov, a Ukrainian commander, has one-upped me:

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On the left is when he claimed that Ukraine would enter Crimea long before the end of spring. On the right, his 'new statement' which claims that Ukraine did in fact already liberate Crimeabut you see, they did it psychologically.

His satire-level reasoning is that, since Ukraine has engineered mass psychological worry and disturbance of the Crimean population, this is tantamount to having taken it entirely. Well, that's all folks, nothing to see here, you can all go home, I guess.

I suppose soon Zelensky will utilize the same tactic in proclaiming victory in his phantom offensive. Since they've established that simply bringing the specter of an offensive is consummate to physically carrying it out and winning, then all they have to do is make us believe it's real and the war is over. Magical, huh? If only Manstein, Rommel, Guderian, and co., could have learned such a strategy, how the world would be different!

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With the Patriot systems being taken out, or just failing outright, Saint green sweatsuit now demands 50 more batteries. Article in the Kiev state propaganda paper. Sure, Z, we'll just send you the next 5 years of patriot production in the next 30-90 days. Sounds good to Raytheon.

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He's even now requesting 50 total Patriot batteries, on top of the 2 or 3 already given. Note that a battery has up to 8 launchers, so his request amounts to upwards of 400+ new launchers. What happened to the previous ones?

That's not to mention that a single Patriot battery costs over $1 billion.

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Speaking of graft, even the Ukrainians are a bit miffed at the scale their state industries are absconding with funds provided to procure weapons for the UFA. Federov in particular sounds like a Hunter biden type. Bonus points for bilking 'green energy' windmills as part of his scams.

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Eduard Fedorov, the acting head of Ukraine's Economic Security Bureau, which investigates economic crimes, concealed his real estate, cars, motorbikes, and businesses by registering them under the names of his family members, Bihus.Info investigative media outlet found.

The Economic Security Bureau was created in 2021 to take over investigations of economic crimes from the State Security Service, largely seen as corrupt.

According to Bihus.Info, Fedorov uses his relatives as nominal owners to hide his fortune. Neither Fedorov, who has worked in law enforcement his entire career, nor his family members could have afforded these assets, Bihus.Info reported. Fedorov didn't respond to the journalists' request for comments.

For example, Fedorov's mother owns an Audi A6 car and a Ducati XDiavel motorbike, according to the investigation. His father has a large apartment in Kyiv that's valued at about $110,000 and co-owns a land plot worth $1.5 million on an island in Kyiv.

This plot sits next to the land owned by people connected to the State Security Service (SBU) and

Ukraine's military intelligence, according to the report.

Among other assets of Fedorov and his family members is land in Chernivtsi Oblast, where their neighbors are current and former SBU officers and their mothers. Fedorov worked at the SBU for years before joining the Economic Security Bureau.

A hotel complex is under construction on Fedorov's land.

Separately, the publication found that his wife Olga Fedorova and an SBU officer's relative co-own a wind power plant in Mykolaiv Oblast. Fedorova also reportedly owns several dozen companies involved in a range of activities, such as education, well drilling, passenger transportation and the sale of various goods.
According to Bihus.Info, one of Olga's companies, Global Technologies of the Future, is supplying spare parts to state railway monopoly Ukrzaliznytsia's repair depots. The parts include diodes that Fedorova's company buys from another firm and resells to Ukrzaliznytsia at four times the price.

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One of the top managers of Progress, Oleksandr Myroniuk, has been charged with document forgery and attempted money laundering. When searching his home in connection to a probe into embezzlement of $580,000 in Defense Ministry's money on body armor procurement, law enforcement found Hr 17 million, $400,000, and 100,000 euros of unknown origin in Myroniuk's possession.

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Just another tale of the endless corruption in Ukraine, which confirms long-suspected notions of why hundreds of billions of dollars were pumped into the country, yet we still see Ukrainian soldiers riding bicycles to the frontline.

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More at Simplicius' latest update. Caution; many of his opinions/links are likely to inflame/hurt feelings for those cheering the holy cause of Ukrainian sovereignty/goodness. It is, in toto, very much 'another perspective.' Stay safe, comrades.

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With the Patriot systems being taken out, or just failing outright

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Is that so comrade?

Some history of the Ukrainian invasion/attacks on Russians in the crimea region, and western press censorship of this.

Perhaps, given the recent actual war correspondent reporting in the New Yorker, the real war will wind up being presented soon. It's ugly and horrible. I don't blame folks though for falling for the very carefully manipulated feeds that many find on their chosen internet news sources/channels/fake news TV outlets. Once again I think more are skeptical about what they see/hear/read every day than was the case the day before.

It's interesting to note that the normally calm/understated style of Putin changed recently to referring to Ukraine as a "so called state of Ukraine." The intention of the special military operation/invasion had been to return it to democratic rule vs. the present CIA/Nuland puppets, but now I am concerned pretenses of making it just a vassal state of Moscow might be discarded on the basis of the Ukrainian scouting/artillery attacks into Russia.

I've been digging a little and apparently Patriot missile production is only around 300 a year. Gonna be real tough to come up with the ***** piano player's demanded 50 batteries.

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I've been digging a little and apparently Patriot missile production is only around 300 a year. Gonna be real tough to come up with the ***** piano player's demanded 50 batteries.

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Is this from the same source that said Russia was producing 100 modern tanks per month?

Teslag said:

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I've been digging a little and apparently Patriot missile production is only around 300 a year. Gonna be real tough to come up with the ***** piano player's demanded 50 batteries.

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Is this from the same source that said Russia was producing 100 modern tanks per month?

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I don't recall that source, I think it was just a twitter link. Forbes says combined output of around 70 a month (new plus rebuild) from the two main plants.

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Today Russia's two tank factoriesUralvagonzavod and also Omsktransmash in Omsk Oblastare struggling to produce more than 20 new T-72B3 and T-90M tanks a month while also restoring old, stored T-72s as well as equally aged T-80s and even older stored T-62s. The two factories together can refurbish an estimated 50 old tanks a month.

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Not sure why you find that such a big deal, but whatever....

That must be a pre recorded statement because Budanov "got got" right?

Whistle Pig said:

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This is no proxy war. Ukraine has the will and countered the initial offensive with homegrown resources. Russia has zero chance of achieving their initial "3 day" aims.

With zero western support Ukraine would still grind them down with an insurgency that makes AFGH look like a cake walk.

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If this is true, and we all know you are the foundation of truth on f16, then why does Ukraine need so much help?

Problem with you pro Ukes, Great Z worshippers is you say this is an opportunity to suqash a weak Russia, then say we must give Ukraine new, modern high dollar weapons as the only means to defeat Russia. Praise is heaped on how brave and resolute Ukrainians are with no recognition or explanation of the vast corruption within the country and in particular involving those currently in power.

If Ukraine wants to be free, they can make their own weapons and ammo and they conscript and train their own soldiers.

It is not our fight.

Correct. Here is Zelensky again coming out of the closet as a CCP-Dem partisan re: American politics, as well.

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Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky admitted that he is afraid of a possible return of Donald Trump to the White House in 2024.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, President Volodymyr Zelensky admitted he has concerns about the possible re-election of Donald Trump next year, saying that he was unsure how exactly the Republican leader would have reacted had Russia invaded during his presidency.

The Ukrainian head-of-state also praised the response of the Biden administration, which has regularly handed over billions of dollars worth of weapons aid to the Eastern European nation since Moscow's invasion began last year.

Asked how he felt about Donald Trump, Zelensky admitted that he was more comfortable with dealing with Biden and that the return of a Republican-led government could end up being difficult for his war effort.

"President Biden is the president during a full-scale war and he has been more helpful to us than President Trump," Zelensky told the interviewer, qualifying the statement by noting that there "was no full-scale war" going on while Trump was in office.

"In a situation like this, when there is support, you are afraid of changes," Zelensky said. "And to be honest, when you mention a change of administration, I feel the same way as anyone… You want changes for the better, but it can also be the other way around."

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Realistically, I think he knows he is now going to be put in a squeeze anyway, as the CCP/Dems/Nato demands he show 'progress' in a bloodbath offensive, or the cash spigot might be cut off, while he would have of course otherwise simply negotiated a truce/peace already absent the pressures. Hence, ratcheting up more and more absurd demands like 100+ F-16's or 50+ batteries of patriots, plus attack helicopters etc. that he knows 'the west' cannot just provide/equip/train/procure for him this 'spring.'

Personally, I think he'd just as soon cash out with blackrock, but the dynamics right now are precarious.

That is as fine an endorsement of Trump as I have seen in a while.

Seems pretty reasonable to be worried about the election of someone so erratic and impulsive. Trump was the first administration to arm Ukraine but now we are supposed to believe he wouldn't have continued to do so. Zelenskyy should have kept his mouth shut though.

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Seems pretty reasonable to be worried about the election of someone so erratic and impulsive. Trump was the first administration to arm Ukraine but now we are supposed to believe he wouldn't have continued to do so. Zelenskyy should have kept his mouth shut though.

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Notice that despite the WSJ (swamp) headline making it about Trump specifically, Zelensky actually warned of/prevaricated about a 'Republican led government.'

Agreed.

LOLOLOL. An utterly laughable WaPo-Bezos Times puff piece about the righteous cause of America committing fully to continuing the slaughter of Slavic serfs in Ukraine.

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If the Afghanistan debacle emboldened Putin, how much more would U.S. weakness in Ukraine embolden Chinese dictator Xi Jinping? The risk of war over Taiwan would skyrocket. And, unlike the war in Ukraine, it could very well involve U.S. troops.

Think of Xi's calculation: If the United States won't stand fast for Ukraine, an internationally recognized sovereign state, how likely is a stalwart defense of Taiwan, which is not? And if the United States is not willing to spend money to defend Ukraine, is it really going to risk American lives to defend Taiwan?

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So, following the logic here, the war press, after lamenting that republicans/conservatives are increasingly skeptical about the $$$ for this war (no details about suffering provided of course, let alone 'peace talk' demands or costs), the argument is asserted that given Xiden's surrender (to the CCP, btw) in Afghanistan, we must fight Putin (a Xi ally) further in Ukraine.

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Failure to save Ukraine would decimate our credibility in defense of Taiwan, thus making war more likely. Our Asian allies certainly know that the outcome in Ukraine is critical to China's thinking. While Xi was visiting Russia in March, Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida was visiting Ukraine. "Ukraine may be the East Asia of tomorrow," Kishida has said, calling the fates of Ukraine and Taiwan "inseparable."

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300K or so casualties to date, massive global inflation, and the issue is "American credibility" under Xiden. Umm…someone shoulda told the sand bag at the USAF Academy graduation about that.

It gets more hilarious from there…Ukraine will revive the Reagan doctrine, save billions, and test lot's of new DoD weapons/toys.

Seriously, I hope people read this tripe. It's such obvious pandering lacking any reasoning/ability to consider that…maybe Xi is happy to see the US pushing this conflict, sigh. Good Sunday humor. Wow. The propaganda press is getting desperate, clearly as Zelensky's own words about the threats of "Republicans" in office indicate (I guess he doesn't mean Lindsey Graham).

Hmmm…not sure if this is, more seriously, accurate at all or portentous of a real (vs. mythical) Ukrainian 'counter offensive' at scale:

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On the morning of June 4, the enemy launched a large-scale offensive in five sectors of the front in the South Donetsk direction by introducing into battle 23 and 31 mechanized brigades from the strategic reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the support of other military units and subunits.

• In total, six mechanized and two enemy tank battalions were involved .
• The goal was to break through our defenses on the most vulnerable, in his opinion, sector of the front.
• As a result of skillful and competent actions of the Eastern Group of Forces, the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine amounted to more than 250 personnel, 16 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles, 21 armored fighting vehicles.

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I do think if 16 tanks had been lost, there'd be a lot of videos of it, so I think that is unlikely to be the case.

A wild day of propaganda, and spin.

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So, Ukraine captured a few border troops in a PR stunt, but they lost dozens of armor/vehicles and potentially hundreds of men in the same daywho really won the day? As per usual, they win the Twitter war.

Not to mention that non-stop Russian strikes are taking out even far more materiel than we can see through such videos. If you recall, in yesterday's report I ended with the note that a new round of missile strikes was beginning. And today we had confirmation from Ukraine's airforce spokesman himself that a major UA airfield near Kirovograd was hit:

Of course, to save face he has to give the obligatory lie that they shot down some standard number of the missiles, but this is all fake. They didn't shoot down a single one. We know this because Ukraine uses any conceivable opportunity to boast and on the rare occasion they actually do shoot down a Russian missile they typically show the actual wreckage.

When missiles are shot down, they are often in 'whole' condition because their warheads do not actually go off. We've seen this occasionally when UA did successfully shoot down one of Russia's flagship missiles, they dance all over it and post a plethora of videos.

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And a quick unrelated note, few commented on the fact that the 2023 Bilderberg meeting had occurred a week or so ago in Portugal. Interestingly, Ukraine's foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba was spotted at the meeting:

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'Follow the money', as it has been said for so long.

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In February 2023, Volodymyr Zelenskyy met with the leadership of JP Morgan , one of the largest investment banks in the US and the world. The parties discussed investments in the "recovery" of Ukraine.

As with the BlackRock fund , JP Morgan's activities in Ukraine are an effective scheme to embezzle state assets and exploit them for the benefit of Western states.

Back in 2019, an investment bank directly lent about $350 million to the cash-strapped Ukrainian government by buying back the country's Eurobonds. Now we are talking about creating a platform for investments , which implies much larger volumes of investments.

The bonds, we recall, are secured by state assets , that is, infrastructure facilities, thermal power plants, nuclear power plants, agricultural and manufacturing enterprises.

Given the current state of the economy, Ukrainian Eurobonds cannot be redeemed , which is what major investors like JP Morgan take advantage of. If the government of Ukraine defaults on Eurobonds, then state assets will become the property of the bank. And this is a very likely scenario, since the budget deficit of Ukraine is now covered from the IMF .

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Why do foreign banks and funds get access to Ukrainian assets?

According to Zelensky, the Ukrainian side wants investors not only to invest in Ukrainian enterprises, but also to make money on it. This, in his opinion, makes it possible to increase the attractiveness of Ukraine for investors . JP Morgan, for example, has been profiting from activities in Ukraine for a very long time.

In fact, outwardly mutually beneficial cooperation is the transfer of state property in exchange for loans , which are a multiple of the real value of the assets, and the Ukrainian leadership acts as a sales manager.

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And Hunter Biden is arguing in court his alimony payments should be reduced, LOL.

A thoughtful piece at FP discussing the need for an end game in the Ukraine war: "An unwinnable war"

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A FOREVER WAR BEGINS
These largely immutable factors could well produce a drawn-out hot war between Russia and Ukraine. Indeed, history suggests that is the most likely outcome. A study from the Center for Strategic and International Studies, using data from 1946 to 2021 compiled by Uppsala University, found that 26 percent of interstate wars end in less than a month and another 25 percent within a year. But the study also found that "when interstate wars last longer than a year, they extend to over a decade on average." Even those that last fewer than ten years can be exceptionally destructive. The Iran-Iraq war, for example, lasted for nearly eight years, from 1980 to 1988, and resulted in almost half a million combat fatalities and roughly as many wounded. After all its sacrifices, Ukraine deserves to avoid such a fate.

A long war between Russia and Ukraine will also be highly problematic for the United States and its allies, as a recent RAND study I co-authored with the political scientist Miranda Priebe shows. A protracted conflict would keep the risk of possible escalationeither to Russian nuclear use or to a Russian-NATO warat its current elevated level. Ukraine would be on near-total economic and military life support from the West, which will eventually cause budgetary challenges for Western countries and readiness problems for their militaries. The global economic fallout of the war, including the volatility in grain and energy prices, would persist. The United States would be unable to focus its resources on other priorities, and Russian dependence on China would deepen. Although a long war would also further weaken Russia, that benefit does not outweigh these costs.

While Western governments should continue to do all they can to help Ukraine prepare for the counteroffensive, they also need to adopt a strategy for war terminationa vision for an endgame that is plausible under these far-from-ideal circumstances. Because a decisive military victory is highly unlikely, certain endgames are no longer plausible. Given the persistence of fundamental differences between Moscow and Kyiv on core issues such as borders, as well as intense grievances after so many casualties and civilian deaths, a peace treaty or comprehensive political settlement that normalizes relations between Russia and Ukraine seems impossible, too. The two countries will be enemies long after the hot war ends.

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what is to prevent Russia from violating any treaty it agrees to? Answer: nothing. They already did so with their current invasion.

So will the US allies continue to bolster the defense of Ukraine after a treaty is signed? That costs money, a lot of money. And then Russia regroups and invades again? After all what is to stop them? Since the West was unwilling to stop them this time (in your scenario). The West holding back key technologies that would have allowed Ukraine to win.

I have no idea what you are talking about/what your point is, at all.

shiftyandquick said:

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what is to prevent Russia from violating any treaty it agrees to? Answer: nothing. They already did so with their current invasion.

So will the US allies continue to bolster the defense of Ukraine after a treaty is signed? That costs money, a lot of money. And then Russia regroups and invades again? After all what is to stop them? Since the West was unwilling to stop them this time (in your scenario). The West holding back key technologies that would have allowed Ukraine to win.

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It's imperative that once a peace is attainted, weather by Uke victory or ceding crimea and some lands in the east to Russia, that Ukraine becomes part of NATO and we have a permanent presence there like we do in Romania and Poland.

Teslag said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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what is to prevent Russia from violating any treaty it agrees to? Answer: nothing. They already did so with their current invasion.

So will the US allies continue to bolster the defense of Ukraine after a treaty is signed? That costs money, a lot of money. And then Russia regroups and invades again? After all what is to stop them? Since the West was unwilling to stop them this time (in your scenario). The West holding back key technologies that would have allowed Ukraine to win.

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It's imperative that once a peace is attainted, weather by Uke victory or ceding crimea and some lands in the east to Russia, that Ukraine becomes part of NATO and we have a permanent presence there like we do in Romania and Poland.

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No, it is imperative that something like the opposite of all that happen, after your opening note acknowledging that conceptually a peace be attained is a good thing vs. a forever war with Russia, a large concession I guess given your joy for war. Goodness…

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This war could be ended in 24 hours.

(1) stop all money going to Ukraine,
(2) threaten to freeze all their assets,
(3) threaten to remove Ukraine from SWIFT,
(4) Order Ukraine to honor the Minsk Agreement.

To Russia:

(1) Lift all sanctions
(2) No NATO training or weapons for Ukraine
(3) Ukraine will not be part of NATO
(4) Agree to pay for the damage to Nord Stream

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That would be a vastly preferable outcome in 2024 (or this afternoon). Sigh, word is continuing to get out as to 'other perspectives' though.

Lol perfect, another wonderful completely unbiased source. You're not even trying anymore.

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Ukraine is an untrustworthy government. Their end goal has ALWAYS been to destroy Russia. They were the first state to pull out of Russia and pitched the destruction of the Soviet Union to other member states. Ukraine was NEVER its own country. It became a country and achieved its sovereignty but that was never good enough. They had to start the civil war against the Donbas. If you want this war to continue, then grab a gun and go fight for this most corrupt head of state probably in the entire world.

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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I've been digging a little and apparently Patriot missile production is only around 300 a year. Gonna be real tough to come up with the ***** piano player's demanded 50 batteries.

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Is this from the same source that said Russia was producing 100 modern tanks per month?

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I don't recall that source, I think it was just a twitter link. Forbes says combined output of around 70 a month (new plus rebuild) from the two main plants.

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Today Russia's two tank factoriesUralvagonzavod and also Omsktransmash in Omsk Oblastare struggling to produce more than 20 new T-72B3 and T-90M tanks a month while also restoring old, stored T-72s as well as equally aged T-80s and even older stored T-62s. The two factories together can refurbish an estimated 50 old tanks a month.

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Not sure why you find that such a big deal, but whatever....

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The t-72 and its "modernized" counterpart the t90 haven't been "modern" in at least two generations. They can restore all they like, cheap western and Ukrainian made ATGMs will continue sending their crap turrets into LEO

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Lol perfect, another wonderful completely unbiased source. You're not even trying anymore.

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Trying what? I certainly don't look to 'unbiased' sources as there essentially are none. I do try to stay away from propaganda outfits like CNN/Moscow Times/WaPo/Russia Today/CBS News etc. It's interesting that some folks seem unaware of propaganda when it is consumed.

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I do try to stay away from propaganda outfits like CNN/Moscow Times/WaPo/Russia Today/CBS

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Dude you literally used to cite tweets from "Donbass Devushka", a former US service member that was pushing Russian propaganda and found herself under federal investigation.

In this war could be over in 24 hours if Russia would just go back home and stop invading a foreign country. Stop making excuses for a hostile violent invasion.

nortex97 said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Lol perfect, another wonderful completely unbiased source. You're not even trying anymore.

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Trying what? I certainly don't look to 'unbiased' sources as there essentially are none. I do try to stay away from propaganda outfits like CNN/Moscow Times/WaPo/Russia Today/CBS News etc. It's interesting that some folks seem unaware of propaganda when it is consumed.

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You posted an article from a random blogger who thinks Ukraine was never a real country and wants to destroy Russia. Doesn't seem like you're doing a very good job of "trying to stay away from propaganda."

Teslag said:

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I do try to stay away from propaganda outfits like CNN/Moscow Times/WaPo/Russia Today/CBS

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Dude you literally used to cite tweets from "Donbass Devushka", a former US service member that was pushing Russian propaganda and found herself under federal investigation.

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Dude/Dudette/Ze, you are essentially the flip side of her, just on Team-Zelensky-CCP, gobbling up anything put out by Team Corruption. If I did cite her tweets then it's probably because I just stick to english language sites for info, and she was commonly re-tweeted.

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Donbass Devushka helped to spread classified files allegedly leaked by airman Jack Teixeira, posting four of those documents to its 65,000 followers on Telegram, according to The Wall Street Journal. Those were posted by another administrator, according to Bils, adding that she is one of 15 administrators "all over the world" involved in running the Donbass Devushka network.

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It was only a couple months ago the feds caught on to who the former sailor was, and she was only 'busted' for sharing more widely PFC Texeira's documents from what I've seen. So, she is not Russian, and had 65,000 followers on just one platform (I've never had a telegram account, btw), who was widely blasted for sharing information publicly posted by an E-3 on a discord server that gave his illegal disclosures a wider audience.

I'll just note again your ability to comprehend/recall what others posted and re-state it is comically bad. I don't want to be rude and make fun of you about it, but please accept my thanks, as I always get a chuckle out of it when you post about something I've said that is completely out of whack with reality/basic reading comprehension. Bless you, comrade.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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nortex97 said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Lol perfect, another wonderful completely unbiased source. You're not even trying anymore.

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Trying what? I certainly don't look to 'unbiased' sources as there essentially are none. I do try to stay away from propaganda outfits like CNN/Moscow Times/WaPo/Russia Today/CBS News etc. It's interesting that some folks seem unaware of propaganda when it is consumed.

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You posted an article from a random blogger who thinks Ukraine was never a real country and wants to destroy Russia. Doesn't seem like you're doing a very good job of "trying to stay away from propaganda."

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It's not a real country, it's a money laundering operation. Ukrainian is also just a dialect of Russian, not a real language. Likewise, I don't think you do a very solid job staying away from propaganda, but I don't think you claim to make an effort as such, to be fair.

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she was commonly re-tweeted.

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That should have told you all you needed when seeking the valida... information you were looking for.

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It's not a real country, it's a money laundering operation. Ukrainian is also just a dialect of Russian, not a real language. Likewise, I don't think you do a very solid job staying away from propaganda

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The amount cognitive dissonance it takes to type this sentence is simply mesmorizing.

nortex97 said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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nortex97 said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Lol perfect, another wonderful completely unbiased source. You're not even trying anymore.

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Trying what? I certainly don't look to 'unbiased' sources as there essentially are none. I do try to stay away from propaganda outfits like CNN/Moscow Times/WaPo/Russia Today/CBS News etc. It's interesting that some folks seem unaware of propaganda when it is consumed.

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You posted an article from a random blogger who thinks Ukraine was never a real country and wants to destroy Russia. Doesn't seem like you're doing a very good job of "trying to stay away from propaganda."

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It's not a real country, it's a money laundering operation. Ukrainian is also just a dialect of Russian, not a real language. Likewise, I don't think you do a very solid job staying away from propaganda, but I don't think you claim to make an effort as such, to be fair.

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Lol amazing. Feels like a good time to repost this from a few pages back.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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fka ftc said:

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This thread has taught me once again who the order givers and order takers are. It's sad how many blindly follow whatever is told to them, regardless of what critical thinking may tell them and in the face of contradictory facts.

I get it, COVID proved there are a lot more order takers out there. Still surprising and sad none the less.

#salutethevaccines

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Agreed. Surprising and sad how many Russian order takers there are out there. Even some that say Ukraine isn't actually a sovereign country, that Putin is "well within his rights" to invade a neighbor and murder thousands of civilians, or that they "respect" the actions of a murdering dictator.

Not supporting the aid the US is providing doesn't need to also include any of the above points, but yet, for some reason for many on this thread it does. Very surprising and sad.

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Don't worry, he totally has no axe to grind with Ukraine and isn't pro Russian. He just doesn't want oru tax dollars sent there.