Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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nortex97
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Ukrainian ministry of defense/intel. HQ was struck. Russia has responded to the Moscow drones I guess by moving ahead with targeting significant Ukrainian back-end operations and threatening even UK (British) officials as parties to the war.

Also, the Chechens are now rotating in for the offensive (the Russian one).

Quote:

"Without waiting for the NATO-Ukrainian offensive, the offensive of the Akhmat units began.

Chechen units were ordered to start active hostilities and liberate a number of settlements in the DPR, Kadyrov said.

The forces of the special forces "Akhmat" and the regiment "North-Akhmat" of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, commanded by Major General Apty Alaudinov, have been deployed to the Maryinsky direction. Now the fighters are preparing to storm settlements with the support of the Ministry of Defense, the head of Chechnya specified.

Similar orders to start the offensive were received by other Akhmat units, which are located on alternative sections of the line of contact between the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions.






The scramble to profit from the multi-trillion 'rebuilding' to come is afoot.
fka ftc
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But we must always spend millions when there are corrupt countries who used to be part of other countries who are unable to resolve differences with other countries and there is money to be made, ideally from both sides of the conflict.

The military grift is real. Ukraine is nothing more than an exercise in lining the pockets of politicos near and abroad and the military machine needed to shake the piggy bank after the Afghan grift was terminated.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
TH36
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Had to stop by here to see how our resident Neville Chamberlain is doing…I see he's still at it.

Do I need to explain the history behind that to you, NorTex?
nortex97
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TH36 said:

Had to stop by here to see how our resident Neville Chamberlain is doing…I see he's still at it.

Do I need to explain the history behind that to you, NorTex?
Let's see, the Ukronazi's are not someone I see as legitimate/good actors/partners for peace in our time. Are you possibly confused?

In any case, Rand Corp. is a bit concerned after the recent strike on the GUR/Nato planning center in Kiev, :

Quote:

Quote:

My source in Kyiv said that as a result of a strike on a military facility on Rybalsky Island, one of the control centers was hit. With the beginning of the air raid, the personnel of the center descended into the shelter, but the Russian Aerospace starwars Forces used a missile with a penetrating warhead, which pierced through the building, penetrated the foundation and exploded, destroying the shelter, where at that moment there were up to a hundred officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and civilian personnel, including twenty foreign military from the USA and Great Britain, who interacted between the Center and similar Western headquarters. A rescue operation was immediately launched. Its results are unknown, but, according to the call center of the Kyiv "Ambulance", more than ten cars were immediately pulled there and about thirty flights were made. On the same evening, two helicopters urgently took off from Kyiv towards the border with Poland.
Rybar states the following:
Quote:

The vague statements of the Ukrainian authorities and the very confused attack on Moscow in order to break the news coverage confirm the version about the exact hit of the Russian troops. According to some reports, more than 30 members of the SMM were wounded in varying degrees of severity as a result of the attack.

And that is not all: Yesterday, a C-21A aircraft of the 86th Air Medical Evacuation Squadron of the US Air Force flew to Rzeszow in an emergency from Ramstein Air Base, presumably to evacuate seriously wounded NATO servicemen.


Quote:




In other news, RAND Corporation released a concerned report that Russia is learning how to fight NATO while modernizing its own army, and NATO is not getting any real, on the ground, hands-on experience themselves, at least nothing comparable to what Russian soldiers are getting through this conflict:
Quote:

"Noninsider" accidentally found out that there are alarming signals among Western military experts.
Conducting an analysis of the NWO process, they suddenly came to the understanding that, in fact, there was a constant practical training of the Russian army.

This conclusion follows at least two classified reports made by unrelated think tanks "RAND Corporation" and "Center for a New American Security".

It was revealed to them that in combat conditions, Russian troops are practicing the skills of countering Western military equipment, NATO standards of operational control and military tactics. Logistics is also being improved, and the process of modernizing the army has accelerated.

That is, pumping Ukraine with weapons and specialists, they teach us to fight with them, but at the same time their personnel do not receive such experience.

This is a rather weighty fact, which now haunts the military elite of the West, in particular the United States, and gives rise to the demand to "stop training Russians."
Exactly how they should "stop" is not specified.

However, the quotation is from the part of the report that gives the opinion of the Chief of Staff of the US Army, General James McConville.

In addition, the closed report of the "RAND Corporation" emphasizes the danger of high-ranking NATO military advisers falling into Russian captivity, with all the ensuing consequences. In this part there is a reference to "..an incident that occurred earlier..". That is, it is quite possible that ours did take someone serious from their high command. Unfortunately no details were provided.

We cannot judge what impact the findings of the reports will have, but we fully assume that US national security demands may begin to take precedence in disputes over assistance to Ukraine. Especially on the eve of the presidential elections.

The last bit of the report above is …interesting.
This dovetails with preparations for the coming offensive, which we're all sick of hearing about at this point.
So…now they demand 120, not 50-70, F-16's in order to conduct the mythological counter-offensive? LOL, that will take a while. I realize the 20-30 year old block 15 F-16A's from the Dutch (20 or so) are coming, not that this will matter much/at all in the conflict. Those could be nominally useful air defense/combat air patrol type aircraft in the west, but without tankers or many more/more airfields, will have zero real impact. The UA SU-24 fencers are apparently out of action at this point.

Further, regarding the fake offensive; let's remember that in December the green sweatsuit ***** piano player said Bakhmut would change the war. Well…

Quote:

The AFU suffered monstrous losses at Artyomovsk. The 72,000 Ukrainian (and not only) military personnel dead includes not only enlisted personnel, but all - tankers, artillerymen, reconnaissance personnel, signalers and all those who fought in this area and were liquidated. It is not yet clear how many of them are mercenaries, even approximately.

In addition to the 72,000 killed there are about 200,000 wounded of varying degrees (with a ratio of one to three). Most of the wounded will never return to action, and therefore will not be able to increase the combat effectiveness of the AFU.

Ukraine's entire pre war army numbered about 230,000 men, and Artyomovsk destroyed its asset, its best personnel, which cannot be replenished in the foreseeable future.

Together with these cadres, the reserves that the AFU was preparing for an attack in the Donetsk direction were burned. Without a grouping of 200,000 men, no large scale offensive is possible.

Now another problem has arisen: a shortage of junior and mid level commanders, without whom combat management, even under current conditions, will be seriously hampered.

This does not include losses incurred during the battles of Mariupol, Luhansk, and elsewhere
Ukraine faced a demographic disaster before the war. Today, they face an impossibility, with the ruling class trying to enjoy partying about Kiev, not going to fight the evil Russians themselves.

As well, Erdogan has pulled out of the Moldovan EPC summit at the last second. I guess Biden's threats didn't go over as well as hoped. Ah well, Eric Holder is probably smiling reading the latest gun running news from Ukraine aide to the drug cartels in Mexico;



Peace in our time? LOL, no. F-16's, ATACM's, long range strike weapons like storm shadow means the Russians have now escalated as well to attacking key decision centers. They've launched a few new spy satellites the past 6 months, and have better intelligence/surveillance than before on their side too.



Forever war!
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Ah, good 'ol 73-Easting Colonel Macgregor to help us understand those circumstantial reports from anonymous bloggers and Russian sources. Yep, so it must mean it's time for 73-Easting war expert LTC Danny Davis to chirp in with another 1945 op-ed. Calling Gen HR McMaster for the 73-Easting grand slam?
Teslag
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Quote:

mYtHoLoGiCaL counter-offensive
nortex97
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Even the French are catching on! LOL.
GAC06
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Whoa, I didn't realize Ukraine suffered almost 300,000 casualties at Bakhmut. That sounds like pretty bad news!
benchmark
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nortex97 said:

Even the French are catching on! LOL.
Another sloppy attribution from yet another anonymous blogger. Here's a more complete reporting of Macron's comments at Globsec in case anyone's interested in context.

President Macron tells Eastern Europe he should have listened on Russian aggression
Teslag
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GAC06 said:

Whoa, I didn't realize Ukraine suffered almost 300,000 casualties at Bakhmut. That sounds like pretty bad news!

Probably killed with the 100 modern tanks Russia is producing each month.
Teslag
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benchmark said:

nortex97 said:

Even the French are catching on! LOL.
Another sloppy attribution from yet another anonymous blogger. Here's a more complete reporting of Macron's comments at Globsec in case anyone's interested in context.

President Macron tells Eastern Europe he should have listened on Russian aggression


Not just an anonymous blogger. That twitter account does nothing but literally retweet Russian propaganda day in and day out. And Nortex laps it up like a kitten with a fresh bowl of milk.
nortex97
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Yep.

Quote:

You @ZelenskyyUa refused President Putin's extremely reasonable demands. The consequences of your decision have been catastrophic. 300,000 unwilling Ukrainians KIA, Ukraine bankrupt and corrupt, freedom and democracy gone.

His demands, beneficial to both Ukraine and Russia:

- Neutral Ukraine.
- US/NATO out.
- Denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine.
- Ukrainian apartheid ag. Russian-Ukrainians to end.
- Ukrainian genocide ag. Donbass Russians to end.
- Donetsk and Luhansk, independent status w/in Ukraine as per the Minsk Agreement.
- Crimea to be recognized as Russian.*

Crimea has been Russian since 1784. It was not Ukrainian before that. As recently as 1954, Khrushchev arbitrarily transferred administration of Crimea to Ukraine SSR, without a vote or approval of Crimea. In 2014, it voted 97% w/ an 83% turnout to be repatriated to Russia.

As you refused to recognize these demands, Donetsk and Luhansk are now fully independent outside Ukraine (versus independent inside Ukraine as per the Minsk Agreement). After eight years of genocide against them, they do not want to belong to Ukraine.

Russian-Ukrainians in the East were officially discriminated against and have been direct targets during this US war. As a result, they too, do not want to belong to Ukraine. They have voted overwhelmingly to join Russia.

If you had accepted Putin's demands:

Ukraine would be whole. Now it has lost Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaparozia. It will lose Odessa. They will not forget the Ukrainian forces locking their own in the Union Building and setting fire to it.

Ukraine would be at peace, able to focus on climbing out of bankruptcy to generate internal revenues once again, instead of relying on foreign aid, especially US funding from unwilling US taxpayers.

Ukraine would have been able to root out the nazification that has oozed through its military, government and society as a whole.

Most importantly families would be whole, able to work safely, and 300,000 sons would still be alive today.

You tell us you are fighting for freedom, then release Gonzalo Lira. Arrange for him to be flown to the US.
Some of us are still opposed to nazi's.

Sigh…BRICSS financial alliance seems poised to grow further thanks to Biden's foreign policy disasters (from an American perspective), including Ukraine.

Quote:

Saudi Arabia is in talks on joining BRICS' New Development Bank (NDB), a precursor to inclusion in a club that comprises Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

Extending membership to Riyadh would signal the bank's interest in challenging the West's monopoly over global financial institutions and represent a counterweight to rich-country clubs such as the Group of Seven, which are seen as neocolonial structures, especially in the Global South.

Saudi Arabia's financial heft would give the BRICS or BRICSS? bank a more prominent role in multilateral funding and is aligned with the group's plans to create alternative financial structures not dominated by Washington.

Critics often point out that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank tend to be structurally under-represent the Global South in their decision-making, and are too closely aligned with Western foreign-policy goals. As global funds shrink away from investments in Russia and China, the NDB might offer an alternative.

In this context, the entry of Saudi Arabia to BRICS would send a message that its current and future members are likely to seek alternative structures of global governance and financing. The West seems to have taken note: The G7 this year invited India, Brazil, the African Union, Vietnam, Indonesia and South Korea as observers.
Teslag
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Quote:

President Putin's extremely reasonable demands

BuT i JuSt HaVe An IsSuE wItH sEnDiNg ThEm OuR tAx DoLlArS
Teslag
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Quote:

Ukraine would be whole. Now it has lost Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaparozia. It will lose Odessa. They will not forget the Ukrainian forces locking their own in the Union Building and setting fire to it.

Will they be rolling into Odessa with the 100 new modern tanks produced per month? Or will they just use the same forces that took 6 months and countless lives to take little old Bakhmut?
nortex97
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Teslag said:

Quote:

President Putin's extremely reasonable demands

BuT i JuSt HaVe An IsSuE wItH sEnDiNg ThEm OuR tAx DoLlArS
The main issue I have with Xiden's war, again, isn't simply the $$$ we send over there, but rather the outsized impact it has had on both geopolitical stability (all over the planet), and inflation/energy prices. It's enormously benefited only one major player; China. Putin is moderately stronger, Ukraine is utterly destroyed, we are poorer (and less ready militarily), Europe approaches a wider conflagration as it re-arms/emboldens Putin, and…well I could go on but you get the idea, again.

Kindly please don't put words in my keyboard, I appreciate it. (You're frankly terrible at attribution/recognizing/recalling what was posted by others). I'll speak for myself, and quote whatever sources I wish to, unless directed not to do so by someone with actual authority on the site.

It's June, and the mythological Ukrainian counter-offensive is…still a myth. Now, they need AirPower in addition to the ground forces they've 'worked to build up/accumulate.' However, now they demand over a hundred western fighters before launching the kraken beast. LOL.

Always moar, as Slavic serf/canon fodder bodies are stacked far and wide, to some folks unending joy.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:


Quote:

mYtHoLoGiCaL counter-offensive

You still haven't given us a start date btw
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:


Quote:

mYtHoLoGiCaL counter-offensive

You still haven't given us a start date btw

Why would anyone outside of a few people have the start date?
Teslag
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Quote:

Putin is moderately stronger

Yes, Putin with a decimated military exposed as a paper tiger, is definitely stronger. Totally not a pusher of Russian propaganda. At all. No way.
GAC06
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Remember, Europe opposing Russian aggression and strengthening their defense "emboldens" Russia. If they let Putin take Ukraine and asked pretty please stop there, it would have really checked Russia.
Teslag
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Also remember that Putin was extremely generous in his offer for peace by only offering to take only parts of another country. And this being after he completely failed in taking the whole thing. Which was his intent.
Waffledynamics
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nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

President Putin's extremely reasonable demands

BuT i JuSt HaVe An IsSuE wItH sEnDiNg ThEm OuR tAx DoLlArS
The main issue I have with Xiden's war, again, isn't simply the $$$ we send over there, but rather the outsized impact it has had on both geopolitical stability (all over the planet), and inflation/energy prices. It's enormously benefited only one major player; China. Putin is moderately stronger, Ukraine is utterly destroyed, we are poorer (and less ready militarily), Europe approaches a wider conflagration as it re-arms/emboldens Putin, and…well I could go on but you get the idea, again.

Kindly please don't put words in my keyboard, I appreciate it. (You're frankly terrible at attribution/recognizing/recalling what was posted by others). I'll speak for myself, and quote whatever sources I wish to, unless directed not to do so by someone with actual authority on the site.

It's June, and the mythological Ukrainian counter-offensive is…still a myth. Now, they need AirPower in addition to the ground forces they've 'worked to build up/accumulate.' However, now they demand over a hundred western fighters before launching the kraken beast. LOL.

Always moar, as Slavic serf/canon fodder bodies are stacked far and wide, to some folks unending joy.


I struggle to find anything you said about the war in your last two posts that was correct except for tons of Slavic deaths.
Teslag
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Also don't forget that Nortex is just angry at china. And totally doesn't cite CCP Twitter supporters for his "facts". Ever.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:


Quote:

mYtHoLoGiCaL counter-offensive

You still haven't given us a start date btw

Why would anyone outside of a few people have the start date?


So make a prediction. Or are you refusing to do so because you are realizing you've been hoodwinked by the grift?
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
Waffledynamics
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:


Quote:

mYtHoLoGiCaL counter-offensive

You still haven't given us a start date btw

Why would anyone outside of a few people have the start date?


So make a prediction. Or are you refusing to do so because you are realizing you've been hoodwinked by the grift?


This makes zero sense.
nortex97
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Waffledynamics said:

nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

President Putin's extremely reasonable demands

BuT i JuSt HaVe An IsSuE wItH sEnDiNg ThEm OuR tAx DoLlArS
The main issue I have with Xiden's war, again, isn't simply the $$$ we send over there, but rather the outsized impact it has had on both geopolitical stability (all over the planet), and inflation/energy prices. It's enormously benefited only one major player; China. Putin is moderately stronger, Ukraine is utterly destroyed, we are poorer (and less ready militarily), Europe approaches a wider conflagration as it re-arms/emboldens Putin, and…well I could go on but you get the idea, again.

Kindly please don't put words in my keyboard, I appreciate it. (You're frankly terrible at attribution/recognizing/recalling what was posted by others). I'll speak for myself, and quote whatever sources I wish to, unless directed not to do so by someone with actual authority on the site.

It's June, and the mythological Ukrainian counter-offensive is…still a myth. Now, they need AirPower in addition to the ground forces they've 'worked to build up/accumulate.' However, now they demand over a hundred western fighters before launching the kraken beast. LOL.

Always moar, as Slavic serf/canon fodder bodies are stacked far and wide, to some folks unending joy.


I struggle to find anything you said about the war in your last two posts that was correct except for tons of Slavic deaths.
Ok. Thank you for checking in on me/dissenters. LOL.

Rand I see is also skeptical about the F-16's ability to help with the 'spring' offensive (maybe they meant to phrase that as spring of 2024 or 2025).

Quote:

In a few ways, it's worse than current Ukrainian fighters. For example, F-16s were never intended to be operated from improvised airfields where they run a much greater risk of ingesting debris into their engines. Anyone who remembers Sully Sullenberger has some idea of how that can turn out.

Another area where they are at a disadvantage to the latest Russian aircraft is air-to-air combat. Large Russian air superiority fighters such as the MiG-31 and Su-35 can see significantly farther with their powerful, modern radars. They also have R-37 missiles that have a much longer range than NATO-supplied AIM-120 AMRAAMs. In other words, Russian aircraft can potentially spot Ukrainian F-16s and shoot them down before the Ukrainian pilots see them coming. This is exactly what has been happening with Ukraine's current fleet of Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters, and the improved capabilities of the F-16 are not enough to tilt this disparity in Ukraine's favor.
I'm still curious who has been killed recently in the Ukrainian leadership ranks;

Quote:

We still don't have any real proof that Zaluzhny is alive, as that video of "Zaluzhny" could've been part of a set of prerecorded videos made of all of Ukraine's leadership in case they bite the dust to keep their image alive, or it could've been a body double (not only do "Zaluzhny"'s eyes look wrong, but so do the frown lines on his forehead which look completely different in that video, and "Zaluzhny"'s hair looks different in its density, hairline, and how it parts), so it's not impossible that Budanov got got too, we'll just have to wait and see if Budanov keeps missing meetings with NATO officials and missing public appearances as Zaluzhny has.
Budanov is usually very active posting taunting social media brags. Hmmm…who was in that Nato command structure in Kiev now covered mostly on one side with a tarp?
Waffledynamics
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Zaluzhny and Milley talked yesterday.

https://news.yahoo.com/zaluzhnyi-shares-counteroffensive-plans-milley-184828566.html

Budanov vowed revenge after the recent attack.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65740839

You're hedging way too much and are leaving no way for you to ever admit being wrong. If you're given proof, you'll just call it fake.

You aren't dissenters. You're just wrong.

GAC06
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That's clearly a deepfake or body double. Wake up!
benchmark
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nortex97 said:

The main issue I have with Xiden's war, again, isn't simply the $$$ we send over there, but rather the outsized impact it has had on both geopolitical stability (all over the planet), and inflation/energy prices. It's enormously benefited only one major player; China. Putin is moderately stronger, Ukraine is utterly destroyed, we are poorer (and less ready militarily), Europe approaches a wider conflagration as it re-arms/emboldens Putin, and…well I could go on but you get the idea, again.
Really? So, how would you explain today's lower gasoline and natural gas prices? It's almost like Ukraine is now the shoe that fits all sizes for any gloom and doom scenario. Inflation, recession, geopolitical instability, dogs and cats sleeping together ... obviously everyone knows that $75 billion for Ukrainian military aid is intuitively more destructive than gov shutdowns and overspending $5 trillion on Covid relief. Clown world.
nortex97
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Quotes from milley are not credible imho. Maybe.

I respect other opinions, but I realize that is not how some roll.
Waffledynamics
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nortex97 said:

Quotes from milley are not credible imho. Maybe.

I respect other opinions, but I realize that is not how some roll.


No, you don't. Christ, it's like arguing with a moon landing denier.
nortex97
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benchmark said:

nortex97 said:

The main issue I have with Xiden's war, again, isn't simply the $$$ we send over there, but rather the outsized impact it has had on both geopolitical stability (all over the planet), and inflation/energy prices. It's enormously benefited only one major player; China. Putin is moderately stronger, Ukraine is utterly destroyed, we are poorer (and less ready militarily), Europe approaches a wider conflagration as it re-arms/emboldens Putin, and…well I could go on but you get the idea, again.
Really? So, how would you explain today's lower gasoline and natural gas prices? It's almost like Ukraine is now the shoe that fits all sizes for any gloom and doom scenario. Inflation, recession, geopolitical instability, dogs and cats sleeping together ... obviously everyone knows that $75 billion for Ukrainian military aid is intuitively more destructive than gov shutdowns and overspending $5 trillion on Covid relief. Clown world.
What? I guess I will be blasted by some for dissenting again, but even the WEF has pointed out how "Putin's invasion of Ukraine" led to the spike in energy/inflation we are now trying to recover from.

Are you denying that basic truth, or is that just a troll/joke? Serious question.
nortex97
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Waffledynamics said:

nortex97 said:

Quotes from milley are not credible imho. Maybe.

I respect other opinions, but I realize that is not how some roll.


No, you don't. Christ, it's like arguing with a moon landing denier.
I love you, comrade, and work not to engage in some sort of game of propaganda/online bickering. Propaganda is amusing, but I try not to post it and to see it from/appreciate both sides. Thank you for contributing to this thread.
Pumpkinhead
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nortex97 said:

benchmark said:

nortex97 said:

The main issue I have with Xiden's war, again, isn't simply the $$$ we send over there, but rather the outsized impact it has had on both geopolitical stability (all over the planet), and inflation/energy prices. It's enormously benefited only one major player; China. Putin is moderately stronger, Ukraine is utterly destroyed, we are poorer (and less ready militarily), Europe approaches a wider conflagration as it re-arms/emboldens Putin, and…well I could go on but you get the idea, again.
Really? So, how would you explain today's lower gasoline and natural gas prices? It's almost like Ukraine is now the shoe that fits all sizes for any gloom and doom scenario. Inflation, recession, geopolitical instability, dogs and cats sleeping together ... obviously everyone knows that $75 billion for Ukrainian military aid is intuitively more destructive than gov shutdowns and overspending $5 trillion on Covid relief. Clown world.
What? I guess I will be blasted by some for dissenting again, but even the WEF has pointed out how "Putin's invasion of Ukraine" led to the spike in energy/inflation we are now trying to recover from.

Are you denying that basic truth, or is that just a troll/joke? Serious question.
Definitely had an energy price spike last year but that is long over now. Bouncing around for now back in about the same price range as pre-pandemic (2020). While Russia invasion last year did certainly spike the energy prices for a time, there isn't any reason to think the shooting stopping over there would have any impact in that regard. Even if the West unilaterally just stopped any support to Ukraine over there (which won't ever happen) that region wouldn't become magically 'stable'. Ukraine is a very large country (biggest in Europe land mass wise) and a large portion of its population would be all-in on fighting however they can. Russia clearly doesn't have the strength to occupy the place so you'd continue to have a sh**show over there. The situation just stinks about everyway you look at it.
nortex97
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Pumpkinhead said:

nortex97 said:

benchmark said:

nortex97 said:

The main issue I have with Xiden's war, again, isn't simply the $$$ we send over there, but rather the outsized impact it has had on both geopolitical stability (all over the planet), and inflation/energy prices. It's enormously benefited only one major player; China. Putin is moderately stronger, Ukraine is utterly destroyed, we are poorer (and less ready militarily), Europe approaches a wider conflagration as it re-arms/emboldens Putin, and…well I could go on but you get the idea, again.
Really? So, how would you explain today's lower gasoline and natural gas prices? It's almost like Ukraine is now the shoe that fits all sizes for any gloom and doom scenario. Inflation, recession, geopolitical instability, dogs and cats sleeping together ... obviously everyone knows that $75 billion for Ukrainian military aid is intuitively more destructive than gov shutdowns and overspending $5 trillion on Covid relief. Clown world.
What? I guess I will be blasted by some for dissenting again, but even the WEF has pointed out how "Putin's invasion of Ukraine" led to the spike in energy/inflation we are now trying to recover from.

Are you denying that basic truth, or is that just a troll/joke? Serious question.
Definitely had an energy price spike last year but that is long over now. Bouncing around for now back in about the same price range as pre-pandemic (2020). While Russia invasion last year did certainly spike the energy prices for a time, there isn't any reason to think the shooting stopping over there would have any impact in that regard. Even if the West unilaterally just stopped any support to Ukraine over there (which won't ever happen) that region wouldn't become magically 'stable'. Ukraine is a very large country (biggest in Europe land mass wise) and a large portion of its population would be all-in on fighting however they can. Russia clearly doesn't have the strength to occupy the place so you'd continue to have a sh**show over there. The situation just stinks about everyway you look at it.
Oh, I see where we misunderstood each other. I don't deny the reality of oil prices today, and you don't deny the impact of the war on energy prices last year.

The impact became a ripple that then led to inflation/interest rate spikes, the results of which led to the current economic downturn and…crash in much of the real estate market for instance in the US (and consequent financial system stresses).

Ukraine itself is quite large, if taken at its pre-war/post-1991 borders especially (though the vast majority of this land mass is essentially unpopulated). It's not really the largest energy producer but it does provide a lot and in a delicate market such as that providing Europe both it's and Russia's departure/disruption created a lot of the problems. Even today the Uke nuke plants are mostly idle, and Russian gas exports have been supplanted to Europe (for now with US/Middle eastern etc).

I agree though, it all stinks every way you look at it. No 'big win' is on the horizon for anyone, least of all the remaining Ukrainians or American taxpayers. How/what do you perhaps see as a 'best case' outcome in 12-18 months?
benchmark
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
nortex97 said:

What? I guess I will be blasted by some for dissenting again, but even the WEF has pointed out how "Putin's invasion of Ukraine" led to the spike in energy/inflation we are now trying to recover from.

Are you denying that basic truth, or is that just a troll/joke? Serious question.
Good grief. You're blasted here because of your lazy homework on blatantly false information. Critical thinking out the window and minimal fact checking. Perma-ignore level credibility.
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