Teslag said:

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Don't play the dem equation game when you've jumped fully on board the Michelle Obama "America is bad and evil too" train.

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Teslag: "If you disagree with me you are Putin / Michelle Obama / uneducated doo doo head."

Got it. Strong position to take.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Remember:

Quote:

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... is within his right at a head of a sovereign state to pursue the interests of his country and the citizens of said country.

---

---

You think this is a dig, but you calling it out makes it clear exactly how weak your argument is.

So are we cool with summarizing your position as "the sovereign head of state has NO business NOR right / authority to pursue the bests interests of their country and its citizens"?

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Now apply the same line of thought to Zelensky.

Zelensky has every right to defend his country. He does not have the right to ask me to pay for hit.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

fka ftc said:

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Zelensky has every right to defend his country. He does not have the right to ask me to pay for hit.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

---

But Putin has a right to ask China, Iran, Belarus, etc to help support his invasion?

And yes Zelensky not only has the right, be he has the obligation to not only ask, but beg for any help he can get. His job is to defend his nation. Just as Churchill did when begging us for help prior to Pearl Harbor.

Teslag said:

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fka ftc said:

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Zelensky has every right to defend his country. He does not have the right to ask me to pay for hit.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

---

But Putin has a right to ask China, Iran, Belarus, etc to help support his invasion?

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Sure, its up to China, Iran and Belarus to say yes or no. Why is that a hard concept?

Teslag said:

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And yes Zelensky not only has the right, be he has the obligation to not only ask, but beg for any help he can get. His job is to defend his nation. Just as Churchill did when begging us for help prior to Pearl Harbor.

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And as a taxpaying citizen of the US, I have a right to express my opinion publicly that we should NOT be assisting Ukraine financially nor militarily. Again, why is this hard?

BTW - I thought Ukraine was this breadbasket of Europe with much to offer the world. Why are they not trading for the assistance they need?

If they want help, then what are they offering in return?

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Teslag said:

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The argument is always the same form of…


"Hey guys I totally just have an issue with us sending money but let me also make a bunch of excuses for Russian aggression and completely whitewash and justify their invasion in any way I can".

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Hey...they had every right to attack and overrun Ukraine.

Just like every other war in history, it was 100% justified.

Germany in 1939? Perfectly acceptable.

Pearl Harbor attack? Perfectly acceptable.

Soviet Union annexation of all the socialist republics? Perfectly acceptable.

Ad infinitum...

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You forgot 2 wars in Iraq, two in Afghanistan, invasions of Panama, countless operations in Africa, war with Spain, war with Mexico a couple of times, so on and so forth. Perfectly acceptable.

You simply go down the list picking good guys and bad guys as if there is no consequence to such revisionists history, where the victor writes the rules afterwards and also is in charge of writing the book of who was good and bad.

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Sure...add those.

EVERY invasion is 100% justified using your logic. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

There are NO bad guys. Only sovereign leaders pursuing the interests of their country regardless of the interests of the country they invade - those interests don't matter.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

Remember:

Quote:

---

... is within his right at a head of a sovereign state to pursue the interests of his country and the citizens of said country.

---

---

You think this is a dig, but you calling it out makes it clear exactly how weak your argument is.

So are we cool with summarizing your position as "the sovereign head of state has NO business NOR right / authority to pursue the bests interests of their country and its citizens"?

---

BTW...that's YOUR argument, FWIW.

You've extended that to disregarding the interests of OTHER countries and their citizens.

For instance, if I want YOUR CAR, I have every right to take it. There is NOTHING WRONG with me taking your car if I decide it is in my best interest to have your car.

Teslag said:

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fka ftc said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Remember:

Quote:

---

... is within his right at a head of a sovereign state to pursue the interests of his country and the citizens of said country.

---

---

You think this is a dig, but you calling it out makes it clear exactly how weak your argument is.

So are we cool with summarizing your position as "the sovereign head of state has NO business NOR right / authority to pursue the bests interests of their country and its citizens"?

---

Now apply the same line of thought to Zelensky.

---

fka ftc said:

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Zelensky has every right to defend his country. He does not have the right to ask me to pay for hit.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

---

Sure he does if he has decided it is in the "interests of his country and the citizens of said country".

fka ftc said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And yes Zelensky not only has the right, be he has the obligation to not only ask, but beg for any help he can get. His job is to defend his nation. Just as Churchill did when begging us for help prior to Pearl Harbor.

---

And as a taxpaying citizen of the US, I have a right to express my opinion publicly that we should NOT be assisting Ukraine financially nor militarily. Again, why is this hard?

BTW - I thought Ukraine was this breadbasket of Europe with much to offer the world. Why are they not trading for the assistance they need?

If they want help, then what are they offering in return?

---

Maybe that breadbasket is getting the **** bombed out of it right now????

Ag with kids said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Remember:

Quote:

---

... is within his right at a head of a sovereign state to pursue the interests of his country and the citizens of said country.

---

---

You think this is a dig, but you calling it out makes it clear exactly how weak your argument is.

So are we cool with summarizing your position as "the sovereign head of state has NO business NOR right / authority to pursue the bests interests of their country and its citizens"?

---

BTW...that's YOUR argument, FWIW.

You've extended that to disregarding the interests of OTHER countries and their citizens.

For instance, if I want YOUR CAR, I have every right to take it. There is NOTHING WRONG with me taking your car if I decide it is in my best interest to have your car.

---

Putin believes he has the right to your car. We can all agree that he may not have a right to your car but that part is irrelevant. Putin believes he has the right.

Much of the world thinks we have no right to meddle in other countries as we have long done. We think we have been justified and have the "right" to protect our interest in oil, other resources and preservation of relative global peace.

Again, and its a point you and Teslag have a difficult time with, Ukraine is within its "rights" to protect itself. Its within its "rights" to ask for help. It is within my "rights" as an American citizen to tell my elected representatives and to voice my opinion that I do NOT want my tax dollars and our citizens supporting the defense of Ukraine's "rights" in this particular instance.

Not sure how to make that any clearer. You are no better than Putin when you wish to deny my rights to have an opinion / position to disagree with you.

So... congrats Vlad on denying me my rights and freedoms.

Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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Zelensky has every right to defend his country. He does not have the right to ask me to pay for hit.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

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Sure he does if he has decided it is in the "interests of his country and the citizens of said country".

---

And my answer is that we have our own problems.

How about instead I say he does NOT have the right to DEMAND I assist him. You as well do NOT have the right to DEMAND I assist him.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Remember:

Quote:

---

... is within his right at a head of a sovereign state to pursue the interests of his country and the citizens of said country.

---

---

You think this is a dig, but you calling it out makes it clear exactly how weak your argument is.

So are we cool with summarizing your position as "the sovereign head of state has NO business NOR right / authority to pursue the bests interests of their country and its citizens"?

---

BTW...that's YOUR argument, FWIW.

You've extended that to disregarding the interests of OTHER countries and their citizens.

For instance, if I want YOUR CAR, I have every right to take it. There is NOTHING WRONG with me taking your car if I decide it is in my best interest to have your car.

---

Putin believes he has the right to your car. We can all agree that he may not have a right to your car but that part is irrelevant. Putin believes he has the right.

Much of the world thinks we have no right to meddle in other countries as we have long done. We think we have been justified and have the "right" to protect our interest in oil, other resources and preservation of relative global peace.

Again, and its a point you and Teslag have a difficult time with, Ukraine is within its "rights" to protect itself. Its within its "rights" to ask for help. It is within my "rights" as an American citizen to tell my elected representatives and to voice my opinion that I do NOT want my tax dollars and our citizens supporting the defense of Ukraine's "rights" in this particular instance.

Not sure how to make that any clearer. You are no better than Putin when you wish to deny my rights to have an opinion / position to disagree with you.

So... congrats Vlad on denying me my rights and freedoms.

---

Wait...you've stated that Ukraine is NOT within it's right to ask for help.

Make up your mind.

And I am not trying to deny you having an opinion. Have at it...opposing spending this money to help Ukraine is perfectly legitimate.

I just find your opinion on the rest of this war pretty banal. Don't YOU deny ME having an opinion on your opinion...

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

fka ftc said:

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Zelensky has every right to defend his country. He does not have the right to ask me to pay for hit.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

---

Sure he does if he has decided it is in the "interests of his country and the citizens of said country".

---

And my answer is that we have our own problems.

How about instead I say he does NOT have the right to DEMAND I assist him. You as well do NOT have the right to DEMAND I assist him.

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Of COURSE he has the right to DEMAND it if it's in the "interests of his country and the citizens of said country". You have declared it to be true several times that the interests of his country are what matters. Who are YOU to tell Zelensky that he's not allowed to demand something?

This Ukraine deal has been percolating since 2014.

I don't understand the reasoning when people say, 'omg! Putin invaded a sovereign nation and their borders are sacrosanct!'

That's a pretty narrow starting point to be discussing all this.

But anyway ... we drone on into year 2 of a conventional land war in Europe.One day all is will spill over and everyone will cry and wear ribbons.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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This Ukraine deal has been percolating since 2014.

I don't understand the reasoning when people say, 'omg! Putin invaded a sovereign nation and their borders are sacrosanct!'

That's a pretty narrow starting point to be discussing all this.

But anyway ... we drone on into year 2 of a conventional land war in Europe.One day all is will spill over and everyone will cry and wear ribbons.

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Might be narrow but it's pretty ****ing important.

It's like switching on a game mid-way through the 3rd quarter.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's like switching on a game mid-way through the 3rd quarter.

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Everything can be viewed that way if you want to...

fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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And yes Zelensky not only has the right, be he has the obligation to not only ask, but beg for any help he can get. His job is to defend his nation. Just as Churchill did when begging us for help prior to Pearl Harbor.

---

And as a taxpaying citizen of the US, I have a right to express my opinion publicly that we should NOT be assisting Ukraine financially nor militarily. Again, why is this hard?

BTW - I thought Ukraine was this breadbasket of Europe with much to offer the world. Why are they not trading for the assistance they need?

If they want help, then what are they offering in return?

---

You can easily make arguments against the funding of this war and wether it's in our interests WITHOUT making pro Russian arguments and justifying their violent and thuggish invasion. That's where the issue lies with you and others.

This thread is one of the unintentionally funniest ones I can recall. "Another early morning post". "Mean emoji" "I got nothing" just perusing the comments so far today.

Love you, comrades.

Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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"I got nothing" was a real mask off moment.

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Ummm....

When you're so surprised that someone has such an insane view...sometimes you're left speechless. Sorry I didn't agree with him...

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For having nothing, you sure are posting in this thread a lot. Could you do less of that please?

I understand your opinion and know where to go if I want to read more about it. Thread title is clear though.

Teslag said:

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fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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And yes Zelensky not only has the right, be he has the obligation to not only ask, but beg for any help he can get. His job is to defend his nation. Just as Churchill did when begging us for help prior to Pearl Harbor.

---

And as a taxpaying citizen of the US, I have a right to express my opinion publicly that we should NOT be assisting Ukraine financially nor militarily. Again, why is this hard?

BTW - I thought Ukraine was this breadbasket of Europe with much to offer the world. Why are they not trading for the assistance they need?

If they want help, then what are they offering in return?

---

You can easily make arguments against the funding of this war and wether it's in our interests WITHOUT making pro Russian arguments and justifying their violent and thuggish invasion. That's where the issue lies with you and others.

---

Ding Ding Ding...

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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"I got nothing" was a real mask off moment.

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Ummm....

When you're so surprised that someone has such an insane view...sometimes you're left speechless. Sorry I didn't agree with him...

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For having nothing, you sure are posting in this thread a lot. Could you do less of that please?

I understand your opinion and know where to go if I want to read more about it. Thread title is clear though.

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Yes, ma'am.

I forgot I needed to ask for your permission to post on this thread.

Didn't realize that "another perspective" meant only yours...

Ag with kids said:

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Teslag said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And yes Zelensky not only has the right, be he has the obligation to not only ask, but beg for any help he can get. His job is to defend his nation. Just as Churchill did when begging us for help prior to Pearl Harbor.

---

And as a taxpaying citizen of the US, I have a right to express my opinion publicly that we should NOT be assisting Ukraine financially nor militarily. Again, why is this hard?

BTW - I thought Ukraine was this breadbasket of Europe with much to offer the world. Why are they not trading for the assistance they need?

If they want help, then what are they offering in return?

---

You can easily make arguments against the funding of this war and wether it's in our interests WITHOUT making pro Russian arguments and justifying their violent and thuggish invasion. That's where the issue lies with you and others.

---

Ding Ding Ding...

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Yet the bell is not being heard… by folks like you and Teslag.

Every single one of these discussions includes me and others saying whilst what Putin and Russia is doing is not something we support, we explicitly do not support writing blank checks to completely corrupt Ukraine.

It's you guys that try and make a non-binary discussion always binary.

That's what gets old with this stuff. Don't support Ukraine… well you are an evil commie Putin puppet that believe Hitler was a good guy.

Reality is I think Putin is a bad guy, but I also acknowledge he is the leader of a nuclear armed superpower who has his own definition of what is just and correct for his country and it's citizens.

And at the same time Ukraine is also a bad and corrupt country led by a sham puppet and I don't want my tax dollars supporting the Ukes no matter how bad I think Putin is.

The f you cannot understand that, then just give up.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

Teslag said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And yes Zelensky not only has the right, be he has the obligation to not only ask, but beg for any help he can get. His job is to defend his nation. Just as Churchill did when begging us for help prior to Pearl Harbor.

---

And as a taxpaying citizen of the US, I have a right to express my opinion publicly that we should NOT be assisting Ukraine financially nor militarily. Again, why is this hard?

BTW - I thought Ukraine was this breadbasket of Europe with much to offer the world. Why are they not trading for the assistance they need?

If they want help, then what are they offering in return?

---

You can easily make arguments against the funding of this war and wether it's in our interests WITHOUT making pro Russian arguments and justifying their violent and thuggish invasion. That's where the issue lies with you and others.

---

Ding Ding Ding...

---

Yet the bell is not being heard… by folks like you and Teslag.

Every single one of these discussions includes me and others saying whilst what Putin and Russia is doing is not something we support, we explicitly do not support writing blank checks to completely corrupt Ukraine.

It's you guys that try and make a non-binary discussion always binary.

That's what gets old with this stuff. Don't support Ukraine… well you are an evil commie Putin puppet that believe Hitler was a good guy.

Reality is I think Putin is a bad guy, but I also acknowledge he is the leader of a nuclear armed superpower who has his own definition of what is just and correct for his country and it's citizens.

And at the same time Ukraine is also a bad and corrupt country led by a sham puppet and I don't want my tax dollars supporting the Ukes no matter how bad I think Putin is.

The f you cannot understand that, then just give up.

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And you said that what he's done in invading is acceptable...

Sorry that I think that's unacceptable behavior.

And I've never said if Ukraine is good or bad, but they DO have a right to defend themselves AND ask others for help...

I just want to note, again, that some folks are/have been systematically programmed to accept/receive and believe in a narrative, including the "Biden-Putin-Ukraine war" chapter.

💥Amazing poll 🤡🇨🇦

“How Should Canada Respond to the Ukraine Invasion: Vaccinated via Unvaccinated”… pic.twitter.com/ECmSJ3yfCZ

— Patrick Henningsen (@21WIRE) May 28, 2023

Sigh, again I agree with some of what Zelensky has said.

The young Zelensky before he was bought: "In the East [Donbas] & Crimea, people want to speak Russian.. leave them alone.. Russia and Ukraine are brotherly people. We are one colour, one blood... I know many millions of people who live in Russia who are wonderful.." pic.twitter.com/5pto1Y3szZ

— Rev Laskaris (@REVMAXXING) May 28, 2023

Miss Lindsey smirking about how great Russian deaths are, is much more grotesque than some anonymous poster on a message board, imho, especially as it…creates a natural emotional response in a certain group of people (with nuclear weapons).

Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokeswoman, Zakharova speaks some uncomfortable truths regarding western multinational corporations role in both supporting Nazi Germany in WW2, and today in Ukraine. https://t.co/mNYf23f6Dg

— Michael (@Get_Smart_086) May 28, 2023

I'm sure Ms Zakharova appreciates your white knighting for her comrade. Poor girl.

Teslag said:

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I'm sure Ms Zakharova appreciates your white knighting for her comrade. Poor girl.

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I like how she got the Nazi dig in there...

Quote:

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Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokeswoman, Zakharova speaks some uncomfortable truths regarding western multinational corporations role in both supporting Nazi Germany in WW2, and today in Ukraine.

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Never said what Putin is doing is acceptable. I said he thinks he is justified and you have to at least acknowledge, if not respect it. Respect =/= adoration, support, condone, etc.

When you put down your I luv Z glasses, you can see these things.

And it you support sending bottomless pits of money to Ukraine, then you de facto are saying they are good and worthy.

Don't worry, they totally can't stand her. Remember they just have an issue with taxpayer money going to Ukraine.

Ag with kids said:

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Teslag said:

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I'm sure Ms Zakharova appreciates your white knighting for her comrade. Poor girl.

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I like how she got the Nazi dig in there...

Quote:

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Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokeswoman, Zakharova speaks some uncomfortable truths regarding western multinational corporations role in both supporting Nazi Germany in WW2, and today in Ukraine.

---

---

It's interesting, sure. Siemens, Ford, Lindbergh, and certain Raytheon component entities etc. did support the nazi's of course. Walter Duranty would have a tough time picking sides I guess in Ukraine today. Or maybe not.

This thread has taught me once again who the order givers and order takers are. It's sad how many blindly follow whatever is told to them, regardless of what critical thinking may tell them and in the face of contradictory facts.

I get it, COVID proved there are a lot more order takers out there. Still surprising and sad none the less.

#salutethevaccines

fka ftc said:

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This thread has taught me once again who the order givers and order takers are. It's sad how many blindly follow whatever is told to them, regardless of what critical thinking may tell them and in the face of contradictory facts.

I get it, COVID proved there are a lot more order takers out there. Still surprising and sad none the less.

#salutethevaccines

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Right. It's truly embarrassing that we simply won't open our eyes and swim in the liberating waters of russian propaganda.

Remember, the radiation at Chernobyl was the equivalent of a chest X-ray and that definitely wasn't graphite on the ground.