nortex97 said:

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Dangerous possible escalation.

Biden’s diplomats are missing in action…they’ve allowed themselves to be shoved aside as the war expands. https://t.co/FIjWvaJTis

— Richard Grenell (@RichardGrenell) May 3, 2023

I think Ukraine is unlikely to succeed by any reasonable standard of 'success' in its big, anticipated, thoroughly unsurprising 'counter-offensive.' They are under pressure for some sort of PR win though, despite having lost a lot of ammo/logistical reserves to the recent missile strikes, and functionally being on their third army at the front (the first 2 having largely been sacrificed), with a potpourri of heavy western tanks that are unlikely to even be able to safely cross many bridges in Ukraine now.

It was a small/tiny drone, launched from 10-50 miles of the Kremlin, it would appear, that basically 'attacked' the flag at the top of the building.

There is a palpable desperation to create this pr/spin/narrative, which could create a real escalation. This drone was unlikely to have been launched from the Ukraine, and likely wasn't US-built, but again our diplomatic/senior state department folks are…inept at best. See: Victoria Nuland. This is a dangerous time for the world, to say the least.

My guess is Russia will respond more violently with attacks on the government structures/buildings in Kiev.

---

So...Russia now has their "pretext" to do this.

Sure...this was Ukraine - they have SOOOO much to gain from one drone attacking the Kremlin.

Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

---

Dangerous possible escalation.

Biden’s diplomats are missing in action…they’ve allowed themselves to be shoved aside as the war expands. https://t.co/FIjWvaJTis

— Richard Grenell (@RichardGrenell) May 3, 2023

I think Ukraine is unlikely to succeed by any reasonable standard of 'success' in its big, anticipated, thoroughly unsurprising 'counter-offensive.' They are under pressure for some sort of PR win though, despite having lost a lot of ammo/logistical reserves to the recent missile strikes, and functionally being on their third army at the front (the first 2 having largely been sacrificed), with a potpourri of heavy western tanks that are unlikely to even be able to safely cross many bridges in Ukraine now.

It was a small/tiny drone, launched from 10-50 miles of the Kremlin, it would appear, that basically 'attacked' the flag at the top of the building.

There is a palpable desperation to create this pr/spin/narrative, which could create a real escalation. This drone was unlikely to have been launched from the Ukraine, and likely wasn't US-built, but again our diplomatic/senior state department folks are…inept at best. See: Victoria Nuland. This is a dangerous time for the world, to say the least.

My guess is Russia will respond more violently with attacks on the government structures/buildings in Kiev.

---

So...Russia now has their "pretext" to do this.

Sure...this was Ukraine - they have SOOOO much to gain from one drone attacking the Kremlin.

---

I'm as pro Ukraine as they come, but Russia doesn't need any pretext to step up attacks. Political figures are a more legitimate and justifiable target than civilians but Russia has had zero qualms about targeting civilians.

If this was a state-sponsored Russian operation, its goal is not to justify going after Ukrainian leaders but rather to build Russian support, global support, or both. I could also see this being a Ukrainian or Russian dissident operation. Either honestly seems more likely to me.

Ag with kids said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Ag with kids said:

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texagbeliever said:

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nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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In Kiev, Major General Volodymyr Oleinik, who commanded the territorial defense units, was shot dead near his home."

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Rumors this was about forcing those Ukrainians conscripted into military service to go to Bakhmut to the meat grinder. who knows though…Ukrainian media wouldn't be allowed to report on that.

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Conscription. Because nothing says I want to die for my cause then being told you have to die for our cause. Doesn't that fly in the face of the this is just what the Ukrainians want argument?

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Doesn't that work the other way with the Russians?

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No. Because im not trying to justify supporting the Russian side. All the Ukraine war hawks have said this is what the people want. If they don't want to die today for the cause it will be prudent to work on a peace that allows them to have the best opportunity of freedom in the future. That is the other side to this.

---

Do you think maybe that Russia have 3 times the population might mean they have more warm bodies than just pure recruitment by Ukraine can counter?

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Again this is not relevant to anything I have said.

Yes Russia has advantages in the war. That doesn't mean it is right to support the war against them.

I would agree with that conclusion, absent an attempt from the Ukrainians to claim they did do it.

I don't think the Russians likely did this themselves/false flagged it. If they were gonna go that route they'd have lamely staged shooting it down just before it got there. There were also 2 dinky drones used, not just the one.

From ‘Kyiv in 3 days’ to ‘Ukrainian UAVs strikes the kremlin’ pic.twitter.com/UI057XzsUg

— Mira of Kyiv 🇺🇦 (@reshetz) May 3, 2023

There is no war "against" Russia

One of the videos clearly shows two individuals climbing the side of the dome at the time of the explosion. No way to know if it's entirely coincidental or somehow related but interesting nonetheless. They don't appear to have been significantly affected.

Yeah I saw that. Not a time of night for a tourist climb to the top of the dome. Weird.

Eurasian times update yesterday:

Quote:

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The 20 M109 Self-Propelled Howitzers (SPH) Ukraine received from Italy earlier this year were not in working condition and will need several repairs before being used on the frontlines, according to Ukrainian military officials quoted in reports.

This is a small part of a larger set of issues contributing to a low confidence rate about the coming Ukrainian spring counteroffensive that has been talked about for months.

Ukraine's successful attacks have been limited to launching drone strikes inside the Russian mainland and the recent hit on the gas station in Russian-held Crimea and forcing the Russians to undertake a few tactical withdrawals like from Kharkiv or Kherson.

But so far, none has successfully displaced Russia from the 20% of the Ukrainian territory it holds in Donbas, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson in the East and the South.

US military leaders like the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS) General Mark Milley and the US European Command Chief General Christopher Cavoli also acknowledge Russia's strategic advantage and military superiority.

Milley rules out the Ukrainian capability to take back their lost territory. Cavoli pointed to Russian ground forces being bigger than at the beginning of the conflict and that its air force and navy had lost as little as 80 planes and one warship.

---

Teslag said:

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There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

We've got an official response, along with a thinly veiled dig at Putin that leaves some uncertainty.

BREAKING: Zelensky advisor Mykhailo Podolyak denies Ukraine carried out the Kremlin UAV attack

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) May 3, 2023

Podolyak claims that drones can be bought in any military store and that Putin is losing control

Predictable statement, as Ukraine always has ambiguity about attacks on Russia, but his outright denial of past Ukrainian attacks on Russian territory will raise eyebrows

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) May 3, 2023

Note that "drones can be bought in any military store" is a paraphrase of Putin's "military uniform can be bought in any military store" about Crimea in 2014. So, I am not sure that Podolyak has actually denied that Ukraine's behind the attack. More like trolled Putin.

— Konstantin Sonin (@k_sonin) May 3, 2023

texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 want against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

Likewise, the wars in Vietnam and Korea were also against the US via Russia. This is a long running standard for conflict between Russia and the US since the end of WW2 to allow for advancement of strategic interests without the nasty complication of nuclear confrontation. The US is still likely less involved from a personnel standpoint than Russia was in Vietnam but we're closing in on the same ballpark otherwise.

Doesn't make it right, wrong, or otherwise but we're not doing anything over and above the standard playbook. I'd argue that Biden has done it far more ineptly than it could/should have been done given the chosen course of action, however.

Response from Sergei Markov, Russian pol and former Putin direct advisor.

https://t.me/logikamarkova/6212

Translation:

"And how would you respond to the blow to the Kremlin?

1. Do you hit Zelensky's residence in the center of Kiev? But he won't be there anymore.

2. Do you hit the center of Kiev hard? But Kiev is our Russian city.

3. Do you hit the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine? But the Pentagon commands everyone.

4. Do you hit the Pentagon? But this is the Third World War.

5. Hit with tactical nuclear weapons,? But it won't have much military effect. And it will lead to real political isolation of Russia in the world."

Compared to Dimitry Medvedev's response:

https://t.me/medvedev_telegram/320

"After today's terrorist attack, there are no options left, except for the physical elimination of Zelensky and his cabal.

It is not even needed to sign an act of unconditional surrender.

Hitler, as you know, didn't sign it either. There will always be some changer like a zitz president."

Rossticus said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 want against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

Likewise, the wars in Vietnam and Korea were also against the US via Russia. This is a long running standard for conflict between Russia and the US since the end of WW2 to allow for advancement of strategic interests without the nasty complication of nuclear confrontation. The US is still likely less involved from a personnel standpoint than Russia was in Vietnam but we're closing in on the same ballpark otherwise.

Doesn't make it right, wrong, or otherwise but we're not doing anything over and above the standard playbook. I'd argue that Biden has done it far more ineptly than it could/should have been done given the chosen course of action, however.

---

You misspelled china as Russia multiple times.

Doing the same thing that we have done that resulted in taking big Ls normally means dont do it anymore.

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 want against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

Not to derail, but what war in North Africa? The one where German units commanded by the most well-known German general of WW2 openly fought allied forces? Korea and Vietnam make sense, but I'm lost on the Africa thing.

texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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There is no war "against" Russia

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Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

chickencoupe16 said:

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texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 want against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

Not to derail, but what war in North Africa? The one where German units commanded by the most well-known German general of WW2 openly fought allied forces? Korea and Vietnam make sense, but I'm lost on the Africa thing.

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Conceptionally it is the same. Where you are fighting someone doesn't matter it is WHO you are fighting. The argument of the poster logically fails in absurb ways.

texagbeliever said:

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Rossticus said:

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texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 want against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

Likewise, the wars in Vietnam and Korea were also against the US via Russia. This is a long running standard for conflict between Russia and the US since the end of WW2 to allow for advancement of strategic interests without the nasty complication of nuclear confrontation. The US is still likely less involved from a personnel standpoint than Russia was in Vietnam but we're closing in on the same ballpark otherwise.

Doesn't make it right, wrong, or otherwise but we're not doing anything over and above the standard playbook. I'd argue that Biden has done it far more ineptly than it could/should have been done given the chosen course of action, however.

---

You misspelled china as Russia multiple times.

Doing the same thing that we have done that resulted in taking big Ls normally means dont do it anymore.

---

No. I didn't. If you think this then you're clearly not well informed regarding either war. Russia's material support, economic support, training assistance, and in cases actual piloting of combat missions was significant. You've got some reading to do.

I do agree, however, that we should learn from the past. Both of those wars went poorly for us because we made poor decisions and Russia properly assessed the level of assistance/participation they could get away with contributing. They pushed the envelope, and showed some balls. We weren't willing to fully commit to the course of action victory would require. Whether we should have been there in the first place is another argument entirely.

Conceptionally/theoretically, the Germans got drug into that mess by Mussolini, the only head of state military commander to rival Hitler in the war as utterly inept.

I don't think this little drone saga at the kremlin today is going to amount to a hill of beans. Which is fine.

For the record, I think killing Zelensky would be deeply unwise. There are other, better responses.

— Big Serge ☦️🇺🇸🇷🇺 (@witte_sergei) May 3, 2023

Note: I have no idea who that guy is, but he's clearly pro-Russian.

Teslag said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

Rossticus said:

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texagbeliever said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 want against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

Likewise, the wars in Vietnam and Korea were also against the US via Russia. This is a long running standard for conflict between Russia and the US since the end of WW2 to allow for advancement of strategic interests without the nasty complication of nuclear confrontation. The US is still likely less involved from a personnel standpoint than Russia was in Vietnam but we're closing in on the same ballpark otherwise.

Doesn't make it right, wrong, or otherwise but we're not doing anything over and above the standard playbook. I'd argue that Biden has done it far more ineptly than it could/should have been done given the chosen course of action, however.

---

You misspelled china as Russia multiple times.

Doing the same thing that we have done that resulted in taking big Ls normally means dont do it anymore.

---

No. I didn't. If you think this then you're clearly not well informed regarding either war. Russia's material support, economic support, training assistance, and in cases actual piloting of combat missions was significant. You've got some reading to do.

I do agree, however, that we should learn from the past. Both of those wars went poorly for us because we made poor decisions and Russia properly assessed the level of assistance/participation they could get away with contributing. They pushed the envelope, and showed some balls. We weren't willing to fully commit to the course of action victory would require. Whether we should have been there in the first place is another argument entirely.

---

China was the neighbor and eventual puppet master of both North Korea and Vietnam. They were the ones who engaged when we got close to the Chinese border.

China's parallel involvement doesn't negate the foundational Russian support that served as the underpinnings of communist forces in both of those wars. As far as Russia was concerned they were very much proxy wars against the US in the interest of expanding communism and their sphere of influence in Asia.

China was the vehicle but Russia was the engine. Most of the economic, material, training, etc support, outside of the warm bodies, was Russian. So, to argue that China was the prime adversary in those conflicts requires that one choose to overlook many details surrounding both events.

notex said:

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Teslag said:

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texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

---

I haven't claimed to have served, I am serving. Today. And yes, this war is completely one sided between agressor and innocent. It is completely the fault of Russia. It continues completely because of Russia. It can be ended at any time by Russia. Every single death is on Russia, even their own.

Teslag said:

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notex said:

---

Teslag said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

---

I haven't claimed to have served, I am serving. Today. And yes, this war is completely one sided between agressor and innocent. It is completely the fault of Russia. It continues completely because of Russia. It can be ended at any time by Russia. Every single death is on Russia, even their own.

---

Well you'll just have to pardon me for not thanking you for your service. You sure must love China. EV's, Ukraine war, hate Russia, passion for lecturing Americans, Wuhan Flu/Fauci, support for senile CCP-Joe, etc.

Teslag said:

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texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

So ukriane is fighting themselves. Thats odd.

Teslag said:

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notex said:

---

Teslag said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

---

I haven't claimed to have served, I am serving. Today. And yes, this war is completely one sided between agressor and innocent. It is completely the fault of Russia. It continues completely because of Russia. It can be ended at any time by Russia. Every single death is on Russia, even their own.

---

Thank you for joining the thread, anyway, yet again. I think you are sorely misguided in your analyses as usual but such is life. It is only by respectfully engaging in discourse with those who disagree that we might refine/polish/improve our understandings.

Back to the topic at hand;

Quote:

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Russia doesn't have to respond. They just have to win the war. All of these pin ***** attacks are designed to cause an over reaction. They have little to no military purpose. Everything in the West is about creating a media story and propaganda. Russia is draining the West and is clearly winning the proxy war. The multipolar world and the rise of importance of BRICS is the development everybody should be focused on.

According to Scott McGregor Russia struck a rail yard concentrated with armored vehicles and destroyed up to 40. In the same strike, a Ukrainian command & control center was also struck, killing up to 1,000 Ukraine military - apparently a lot of line officers, and maybe some NATO, too.

I'm fact, I might be lead to believe to Ukraine strike attempted last night might be retaliation for what Russia did a couple days ago.

The West is in desperation mode at this point hence the endless clamor for an offensive to change the dynamics in place.

---

That's obviously one-sided, perhaps even propaganda (a 180 from what those on another site/thread might consume daily). But I don't blame Zelensky for wanting to avoid air travel right now.

^

"Perhaps" it's propaganda? Really?

Teslag said:

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notex said:

---

Teslag said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

---

I haven't claimed to have served, I am serving. Today. And yes, this war is completely one sided between agressor and innocent. It is completely the fault of Russia. It continues completely because of Russia. It can be ended at any time by Russia. Every single death is on Russia, even their own.

---

*beep boop*

"History began on 2/24/2022"

Teslag said:

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"Perhaps" it's propaganda? Really?

---

See, this is not respectful. I am trying to demonstrate comity. The CIA/CNN/WaPo/Dem/CCP narrative shouldn't be the only propaganda we can discuss, on every possible thread.

Just so everyone reading this gets it, is Joe Biden senile? Not asking if he's bright/a moron etc.

If he's NOT senile then he should be ashamed of himself. He's clearly suffering from a noticeable measure of age related decline, wether you want to label it as dementia, senility, or whatever. He was never the sharpest tool in the shed even half a century ago but the gaffes, short term memory loss, deficiencies in speech, etc. are pretty clear indicators of cognitive regression.

Teslag said:

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notex said:

---

Teslag said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

---

I haven't claimed to have served, I am serving. Today. And yes, this war is completely one sided between agressor and innocent. It is completely the fault of Russia. It continues completely because of Russia. It can be ended at any time by Russia. Every single death is on Russia, even their own.

---

These German POW's, who were not fighting against anyone, mostly went on to die in Siberia I believe.

57,000 German POWs are marched through Moscow to display the Red Army’s dominance, July 17 1944. pic.twitter.com/wMz4Cge6rX

— Wars (@wars) May 3, 2023

Wait, were the Russians bad then as well, or the Nazi's?

https://instagr.am/p/ConEDg2pNrZ

notex said:

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Teslag said:

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notex said:

---

Teslag said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There is no war "against" Russia

---

Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.

---

This is war solely against Ukraine.

---

What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

---

I haven't claimed to have served, I am serving. Today. And yes, this war is completely one sided between agressor and innocent. It is completely the fault of Russia. It continues completely because of Russia. It can be ended at any time by Russia. Every single death is on Russia, even their own.

---

These German POW's, who were not fighting against anyone, mostly went on to die in Siberia I believe.

57,000 German POWs are marched through Moscow to display the Red Army’s dominance, July 17 1944. pic.twitter.com/wMz4Cge6rX

— Wars (@wars) May 3, 2023

Wait, were the Russians bad then as well, or the Nazi's?

---

Order of evilness:
Soviets=Nazis

Order of bad outcomes for the world:
Soviets>Nazis

But both were bad. Just because the Soviets fought against the Nazis doesn't mean that they weren't just as evil.

Interesting insight into one of the men closest to Putin and one of the primary advocates for taking Ukraine, over the years. Seems more appropriate here than the other thread since it attests to the perspective of one of Putin's most influential confidants and likely one of the men vying to "assume the throne" should Putin falter or expire. Patrushev is a true believer, and makes Putin appear moderate in some respects.

The Twitter thread is a summation of the Russian language interview, which it links for reference.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1653838609651228674.html

Patrushev's interview begins with a discussion of post-Cold War geopolitics

In familiar fashion, he accuses the US and Britain of trying to create a unipolar order and claims that "Anglo-Saxons" are trying to finish the job now by kicking Russia off the UN Security Council /2

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) May 3, 2023