Some folks tried to explain at the start that this was a huge mess. Now we got reports of the Bidens involved, money laundering, sham corporations, pay-for-play and now child sex trafficking. This isn't as cut and dried as it was made out to be at the start and I think folks are realizing that now. It's not binary. It not just about Russia. It's a massive quagmire. So if this applies to some folks, there's no shame in saying, 'yeah we were wrong, our initial analysis was way off and we didn't understand the situation from the outset.'

Teslag said:

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Killing invading Russian soldiers = bad

Killing millions of civilians with a nuke = good

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Civilians that don't want the invaders there in the first place, too...

Russian civilians living in Eastern Ukraine who do not want to be ethnically cleansed by Zelensky and friends in the first place have an equal right to breathe.

fka ftc said:

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Russian civilians living in Eastern Ukraine who do not want to be ethnically cleansed by Zelensky and friends in the first place have an equal right to breathe.

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Not when you nuke them...

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Some folks tried to explain at the start that this was a huge mess. Now we got reports of the Bidens involved, money laundering, sham corporations, pay-for-play and now child sex trafficking. This isn't as cut and dried as it was made out to be at the start and I think folks are realizing that now. It's not binary. It not just about Russia. It's a massive quagmire. So if this applies to some folks, there's no shame in saying, 'yeah we were wrong, our initial analysis was way off and we didn't understand the situation from the outset.'

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And it all could have been avoided if Putin didn't invade Ukraine.

There were a few of us who warned this from the day Biden invited Putin to come on in to Ukraine, as long as it was just a "minor incursion".

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"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades," the president said Wednesday [Jan 19, 2022]. "And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do, etc."

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Teslag said:

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And it all could have been avoided if Putin didn't invade Ukraine.

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Then go kill Putin. Instead, we have economic and energy policies that have only served to strengthen Putin and his pal Xi. Genius!

fka ftc said:

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There were a few of us who warned this from the day Biden invited Putin to come on in to Ukraine, as long as it was just a "minor incursion".

Quote:

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"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades," the president said Wednesday [Jan 19, 2022]. "And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do, etc."

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Trying to roll right into Kiev from Belarus wouldn't qualify as a minor incuursion.

Teslag said:

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fka ftc said:

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Quote:

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"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades," the president said Wednesday [Jan 19, 2022]. "And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do, etc."

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Trying to roll right into Kiev from Belarus wouldn't qualify as a minor incuursion.

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Take it up with Biden. Maybe he should have had a phone call with Putin to clarify... if Putin would even take his call.

Trump seemed to make things clear to Putin. Hence no invasion Jan 2017 to Jan 2021. Glad to clear that up for you.

fka ftc said:

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Zelensky can equally end the war. Hell, Biden can as well. But the money is just soooo easy and feels so good!

Genocide is wrong and should not be called for or supported.

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By forfeiting his entire country and letting Russia take over? I guess by your logic the Allies could have easily "ended the war" in 1938 too.

You also seem to be very confused about the definition of the word genocide.

You guys are having fun not only dishonoring others who served but also you own service. Congrats?

Teslag said:

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A year and a half after Kiev was supposed to be occupied in 4 days, Zelensky is now in a "hopeless position"

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But he's working the grift! Millions displaced, tens of thousands dead (many times that wounded), cities reduced to rubble, industry flattened, children kidnapped…………………and it's all a deep plan…….. That takes quite an imagination by some posters. And it all started because Mother Russia wanted to claim a country that really was theirs……or was it to cleanse Nazis……..or was it "deadly biolabs"……….or was it NATO waiting to pounce on Russia from Ukraine…….it changes weekly, so it's hard to keep up.

I need to look into it more but I read that most Russian oligarchs as well as other world politicians made tons of money from oil by the means of derivatives and futures, meaning they planned on the Ukraine attack for a while and waited on the market for the right time to attack. While I originally thought the war was a power grab by a dying empire it could be much more simple, money and power by the world elite.

Putin and his merry band of oligarchs may be ruthless corrupt tyrants, but they are also intelligent and methodical in their game.

I do not think anything about the "Ukraine resistance" surprised Putin. Maybe the take out of his fancy missile ship, the effectiveness of the US supplied anti tank weapons, and the poor performance of his pilots, but the rest is probably about what he expected. As pointed out just above, Russia also benefits from a protracted conflict.

Both China and Russia benefit from any rearmament Putin does. Both have a LOOOONNNGG history of copying western designs. Whether it be space shuttles, Concordes, nuclear bombs or other weapons. We innovate, they duplicate.

Teslag said:

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This is simply Russian fan fiction

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I do not think anything about the "Ukraine resistance" surprised Putin. Maybe the take out of his fancy missile ship, the effectiveness of the US supplied anti tank weapons, and the poor performance of his pilots, but the rest is probably about what he expected.

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Sorry your "simply Ukraine fan fiction" is no longer winning around here.

It is not necessary for you to derail this thread by turning every comment into another allegation of Russian propaganda.

Most will find my comment to be level-headed, thought out and supported by non-biased facts.

Of course they will.

"I don't need a ride I need money, all the money"

So when does UKE kick the Russians out of Donbas and Crimeria? 2050?

I don't think they ever push them out of crimea. Donbas maybe by Christmas. The Russians are weak and poorly equipped

‘The Russians Blew Up Our Dam!’ Says Zelensky While Still Holding Detonation Plunger Thingy https://t.co/3T35Xt43hn pic.twitter.com/oRg0vG5eLj

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) June 7, 2023

fka ftc said:

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There were a few of us who warned this from the day Biden invited Putin to come on in to Ukraine, as long as it was just a "minor incursion".

Quote:

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"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades," the president said Wednesday [Jan 19, 2022]. "And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do, etc."

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Thank for sharing this--I had never seen this before! The media did a good job of burying it...

Notice someone named after a golfcart did not specify WHICH Christmas the Ukes kick the Russians out of Donbas...

Christmas 2023

Let's all agree to pretend like we're shocked when this coincides with a real world event.

Is this like when China does war games around Taiwan? So NATO is not imitating Xi?

What a world....

I'm just pointing out that over the past 20 or so years there's a strong correlation between doing an exercise and something popping off real world. Wasn't there an ongoing exercise surrounding the destruction of Nordstream?

Another example is the 4000 US troops in Romania under the banner of an exercise.

fka ftc said:

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Is this like when China does war games around Taiwan? So NATO is not imitating Xi?

What a world....

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Conducting military exercises is imitating China now?

Good Lord

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Another example is the 4000 US troops in Romania under the banner of an exercise.

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We've been sending troops to Romania for deployments and exercises for a decade now

We watching thing thing escalate week by week for almost a year-and-a-half.

Yep, and now we have a 'major offensive.' LOL. Indeed. Long update here, just a small sampling/fair use of the news overnight, comrades:

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But, judging by today's results, that syzygy is more a zugzwang. Russian forces dealt a crushing blow to AFU's meat-vanguard. Let's break down how it happened in detail; however, before that, first let's update a few things about the last advance over the past couple days on Zaporozhye's eastern flank.

I reported last time how Russia managed to retake Novodonetsk under Velyka Novosilka. But I just wanted to add some of the official numbers to contextualize things. In a somewhat uncommon gesture, Shoigu himself actually gave the exact figures of Russian losses during this assault. They were:
71 Russian servicemen killed, 210 wounded.

So as one can see, Russian forces do take losses in these meat assaults by Ukraine. However, Shoigu's listed losses for Ukraine for the period were:

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Ukraine's losses from June 4 to June 6 were 3,715 soldiers, 52 tanks, 207 armored vehicles, 134 vehicles, 5 aircraft, 2 helicopters, 48 artillery systems and 53 drones, Mr. Shoigu announced.

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Many have scoffed at his figure of 3700 casualties, some saying that you can divide this by 10 and it's still a lot. We must remember this includes wounded, so the KIA is likely much lower. The above figure is for major assaults over the course of three days. If you break down the 3,700 as probably 1000+ killed and 2700 wounded (give or take), how is that an unrealistic number for three days' time of June 4, 5, and 6? That would mean 300 killed per day. That's a light day for AFU even in Bakhmut when they were on defense. Now imagine them on offense, exposed and easy to hit.

Another thing, you see those figures like 52 tanks, 200+ armored vehicleswhich too sounds like a lot. Once again that's over three days. But interestingly, just in today's new assault in west Zaporozhye, we have visual confirmation of 42 pieces of armor destroyed. That's just from a couple videos from one unit out of dozens/hundreds of units on these lines. And this is just the videos of mass armor knockouts, there are dozens of videos showing individual pieces being knocked out like Lancets taking out artillery, of which there were at least 5-7 new videos today alone. So imagine what the total destroyed figures are when you extrapolate this out?

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Even Uke war fanboys are mystified by the senseless slaughter they are providing for their own cannon fodder in broad daylight:

My own modifications/addenda to the Dreizin OPORD release:

A: Feint
8: Aleshky-Khakovka crossings Perekop Axis
9: Chongar push https://t.co/VmC4R4flzL pic.twitter.com/0daSoj777K

— Matt Davies (@MNormanDavies) June 7, 2023

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Recall that, as large as those numbers above sounda 30,000 man breakthrough force followed by a 50,000 man reserve to expand the breakthrough once it's unleashedI've noted previously that some sources estimate Russia has close to 200k men on this front waiting for these advances. Most of them would likely be way in the rear, or not even injected into the actual theater yet (i.e. could be in Crimea, etc.) but that is the totality of what they can bring to bear there in a short amount of time to plug holes on any 'breakthroughs'.

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And…the uke's apparently have now been confirmed to have worked to flood the dam before blowing it. The escalation strategy unfortunately seems to have worked;

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Quote:

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Patrushev: Kyiv released water to Dnipropetrovsk HPP a day before the attack on Kakhovka Secretary of the Security Council of Russia Nikolay Patrushev said today that, on the order of Kiev, water was released in the Dnipropetrovsk hydroelectric power plant, a day before the attack on the Kahovka HPP. "On the orders of Kyiv, 24 hours earlier there was a massive water release at the Dnipropetrovsk HPP, and then there was an attack on the Kahovka HPP, which led to terrible consequences," said Patrushev, TASS reports.

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One very ominous development is that the Kakhovka dam situation has markedly shifted the rhetoric from topic Russian leadership. The above-mentioned Patrushev, who is said to be in the innermost circle of Putin, and who not only used to be the director of the FSB but once considered as the leading candidate for the future presidency of Russia, stated in a new interview that the Kiev regime needs to be "replaced" and Ukraine itself must become a neutral state:

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The new goal of the SMO is the demolition of the Nazi regime in Kiev.
It seems that new specifics have been added to the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine as the goals of the SMO.

"Washington and London created the Kiev Nazi regime, which must be replaced, giving Ukraine the status of a neutral state in practice," said Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev (pictured) in an interview with Belarusian Security Council Secretary Alexander Volfovich.

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However, Russian state Duma deputy Elena Panina went even further stating that the only way to ensure Russia's security is for the entirety of Ukraine to be incorporated into Russia as a federal district, i.e. total absorption of the state of Ukraine:

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