Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to 10thYrSr • 9:08p, 11/28/24
AG
10thYrSr said:
nortex97 said:
"That guy Benz" and "freedom" made me laugh. Thank you!

And happy thanksgiving, war readers.


Happy Thanksgiving Nortex. On this day of thanks, I am grateful for your well researched and documented posts on this forum. You withstand derision, moderation, and scorn and still find it valuable to post. I enjoy reading your take. Never stop.
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nortex97
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 4:32a, 11/29/24
AG
Thx! I actually can't wait to just not post/think/pray about this conflict any longer, though.

Another instance of a country rejecting Ukrainian demands/requests, out of simple self-interest:


Throwback to the mythologized 'counter-offensive' impact/dreams:


Russians surgically attacking NPP (nuke power plant) substations now to take further down the Ukrainian grid:


I know there's a thread on Putin's comments about Trump being in danger physically, but the commentary from this 'somewhat' pro-Russian account is what I find interesting here, about the Ukrainian war/impact really:
Quote:
Putin says that the Deep States' actions have been "uncivilized", and that their behavior is too low, even for Russian gangsters, who do not bring family members into business.

Based on these statements, I think it's safe to assume that Trump and Putin are indeed in contact with one another, and are negotiating to find a solution to the rising provocations from Ukraine/US/NATO.

Putin knows he just has to hold off until Trump is sworn in, and the threat of nuclear war will be over, the conflict in Ukraine will be over, and NATO's expansion will be over.

I've been saying for years that Putin is an enemy of the Deep State, and he just proved it again.

Trump and Putin will stop WW3.
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OPAG
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:00a, 11/29/24
AG
And as you know as well or better than me, Putin is right on all counts. UNFORTUNATELY
"only one thing is important!"
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nortex97
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In reply to OPAG • 8:46a, 11/29/24
AG
He's close. Not sure this is true though?

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nortex97
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4:50a, 11/30/24
AG
ATACM's struck before being able to deploy.


Sitrep: Saint Zelensky breaks, now willing to talk ceasefire pending Trump inauguration, but maintains Nato delusions, LOL.

Personally, I am more wary of the 'peace' plan if it involves trillions to the Kiev money laundering and fraud machine from 'the west' (aka Americans). Below re: BoJo's comments (at the link):
Quote:
Also note his admission that the West is waging a proxy war against Russia and how blithely he tosses out astounding numbers: "We should give them half a trillion or 'whatever'". Wow! So easy is it to throw around trillions of tax payers' hard-earned cash without any accountability.

As you can see by the above, the contours of the West's plans for ending the war are beginning to materialize before us. The final problem persists: the West still continues to operate under the faulty premise that Russia has taken far more losses than Ukraine, and thus is eager, or even desperate, for this coming ceasefire. Nothing of the sort: recently virtually every Kremlin figure has again reiterated that Russia is not interested in any ceasefires which do not adhere to Putin's already-stated, widely-known conditions. Of course, crashing the Russian Ruble via a new sudden tranche of sanctions is likely meant to 'soften Russia up' and prime its economy for sanctions relief desperation precisely to fall into the Western conflict-freezing spider trap.
And no to US troops as well. This graf is about right:
Quote:
Trump will have to walk a tight rope, as leading the push to rashly crash the gates with US troops will leave him looking like a warmonger, while doing nothing at all sullies his legacy with a mark of weakness akin to Biden's Afghan withdrawal debacle. The best thing Trump can do, of course, is to dump Ukraine and blame the mess on Europe to salvage his 'legacy'. There are rumors he can initiate a Ukrainian audit which will find grave corruption, giving him the justification to clear his name of it.

I would be very surprised if Trump was so foolish as to indulge the country which was central to the core movement to destroy him. Recall, virtually everything about the post-RussiaGate "Ukraine Scandal" conspiracy to destroy Trump originated from Ukraine, whether it was Ukrainian-born Colonel Vindman or the Burisma-Hunter Biden connections, etc. It was the snakepit and breeding ground for all the vipers out to get him. Surely he remembers this?

The fact is though, the longer the Ukrainian conflict goes on, the closer the European Union comes to the verge of collapse. The conflict is outright killing Europe by exposing its bought-off treasonous leaders as the populace-hating cretins they are, causing mass discontent and political breakdown, spurring revolutionary new impulses which will soon bulge out the foundation's cracks:
Desertion and blocking units:


Good piece about the delusions of confronting Russia vs. engaging with them, just as Syria conflates with an Al Nusra strike into Aleppo:
Quote:
The upshot of all this is easy enough to discern. The war's continuation will result in: the further devastation of Ukraine, a hardening of the cold war divide across Europe, and a deepening of the "no limits" partnership between Russia and China. This last will have ramifications for the incoming administration's expected hardline policy toward Iran. In this context, it is important to note the statement of the Arab Islamic Summit issued on November 11 which warned of the "danger of the escalation sweeping the region and its regional and international consequences."

In their enthusiasm for a violent confrontation with Russia, a generation of American pundits and policymakers have helped create the conditions for a wider war, one that may soon stretch across Ukraine into the Greater Middle East. It remains a very open question (given the shape of his national security team) how Donald Trump plans to weather the coming storm.
More at the link, as they say. Forever war, comrades!
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nortex97
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8:48a, 12/1/24
AG
French-born Georgian president refuses to leave office, pending maidan assaults.
Quote:
Georgian President Salome Zourabichvili will not step down from her position despite the end of her mandate in December, she said in a video address on Saturday, explaining that she does not recognize the legitimacy of the newly-formed parliament and intends to stay in office until new elections.

"I remain your President! There is no legitimate parliament that will elect a new president," she said in a video published on her Facebook page. "My mandate continues until there is a legitimately elected parliament that will legitimately elect a President who will replace me!"

Under the 2017 Georgian Constitution, the head of state is elected by an electoral college consisting of 300 members. Half of them are MPs, and another half are representatives of various Georgian regions. The next presidential vote is scheduled for December 14. Whoever wins is reportedly expected to be inaugurated before the end of the year.

In October, the South Caucasus nation also held parliamentary elections. The Georgian Dream party, which seeks to establish pragmatic relations with all the country's neighbors, including Russia, emerged victorious with nearly 54% of the vote. The pro-Western opposition parties have refused to recognize the results, sparking a wave of street protests.

The French-born Zourabichvili a career diplomat for Paris who acquired Georgian citizenship in her 50s condemned the October election as a "Russian-style" operation, claiming that Georgian Dream is steering the nation towards Moscow and away from that of the EU. She also called for mass protests.
Nato comically has discussed sending troops to 'Ukraine' post-ceasefire, which is particularly hilarious when reading about recent exercises.





A hundred thousand 'recruiters'? LOL. Such eager joy the Ukrainians have to go fight the Russians. Reminds me of a certain presidential campaign.
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nortex97
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5:36a, 12/2/24
AG
Sigh…as the Ukraine war winds down shortly (hopefully), the Biden corruption there has come full circle, at last.







I don't think it's likely, but hopefully Trump offers/gets the US out of Nato as some sort of Ukrainian peace settlement with Russia.
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nortex97
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7:11p, 12/2/24
AG
Oh look, Ukraine, Bidens…etc.


Yes, corruption at the top matters. Long post, I recommend reading it thru:


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nortex97
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5:29a, 12/3/24
AG
Hungarian FM talks about the EU and pro-war politicians, Georgia coup-attempt:
Quote:
The EU approach to the Ukraine conflict has ultimately weakened the bloc "a lot,"Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto has said, branding the decision to blindly follow Washington's polices a "big mistake."
…
"There are many extremely pro-war politicians in Europe. When I sit on the meetings of the Foreign Affairs Council with other foreign ministers and listen to some, I'm so sad, that such kind of extreme pro-war positions are present," Szijjarto stated.

Hungary itself has taken a different approach, remaining "the only country in Europe or European Union which has not delivered weapons to Ukraine," he noted. "We are the only country in NATO, almost the only one, which speaks openly about the red lines which must be kept seriously. And we are the ones who speak openly about our assessment that NATO is a defense alliance and not an attack," Szijjarto added.

The foreign minister also touched upon the situation in Georgia, which has been gripped by unrest over the past few days after Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze announced that he would freeze accession talks with the EU until 2028. The protests have been openly backed by the EU, with the stance taken by the bloc's leadership hardly surprising given that Hungary has been "under attack for the last 15 years," Szijjarto suggested.

"My problem is that this is very [common] in Europe. In the case, if it is not the liberals to win an election, the democratic nature of the whole country and the whole political system is being questioned immediately. If it is liberals to win, everything's fine. If it's patriots to win, if it is conservatives to win, if it is right-wing to win, the nature of democracy is immediately questioned. And this is totally unacceptable," he said.
Sitrep: Steamroller rolls onward.

LOL, indeed.
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OPAG
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6:25a, 12/3/24
AG


Follow the chain of tweets.

Again, as I have said a thousand times, even back before the Russian "unprovoked" invasion.

Ukraine is the head of the snake for the corrupt deep state cabal. And they are not going to just that get decapitated without putting up a max effort type of fight!
"only one thing is important!"
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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11:29a, 12/3/24

Quote:
An ally of Vladimir Putin said that if Russia were to fire a nuclear weapon on Ukraine it would create a "radiation zone" that would end the conflict,


Fallout 25: Donbas DMZ
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General Jack D. Ripper
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12:36p, 12/3/24
Warm up the bus cause this one is over. The deep state rats, the congressmen, Obama/Biden and the war contractors made their nut. Now with Trump in office they know it can't continue.
I wish I was a messenger, and all the news was good. Eddie V.
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Red Fishing Ag93
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10:05p, 12/3/24
AG
Mike Benz on Joe Rogan has dropped.
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nortex97
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In reply to Red Fishing Ag93 • 4:11a, 12/4/24
AG
Thx, was busy yesterday. Tucker Carlson is doing an interview with Lavrov as well, which should be…interesting. Sort of amazing that he credibly claims the US embassy ordered Zelensky not to talk with him over the past year.





$5billion in media investments in 2013, operation mockingbird style was news to me. Of course he gets into the censorship role as this stuff really kicked off our change from 'free speech' in diplomacy to censorship to control what is allowed to be shared. Censorship as the 'el dorado key' to winning soft power influence internationally has…failed.





Nato big-hitters object to Ukr membership.
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TRADUCTOR
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In reply to nortex97 • 6:06a, 12/4/24
Benz is crazy, just rambling on about evil world dominating political machine with the most elite henchmen of the world. President Trump actually measures his words and the evil swine are in the planning stage of a 4th assassination attempt.

Nixon just played in a sandbox where these evil elites just take a crap.

The evil is outta the shadows, the enemy is seen now. Just waiting for deafening squeals as the good guys are locking in on each target.

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Stat Monitor Repairman
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1:54p, 12/4/24

Quote:
  • Summary
  • Trump advisers propose Ukraine concessions to Russia
  • NATO membership for Ukraine off the table in proposed plans
  • Analysts doubt feasibility of Trump's quick resolution promise
Lol when we arrive at the resolution to this that some folks been harping the past 2.5 years.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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2:00p, 12/4/24
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MJ20/20
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In reply to Teslag • 2:18p, 12/4/24
AG
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Sounds like Ukraine has no ability to mount an offensive. It makes sense Russia would be aware of this. I'm sure Russian troops are reporting that the folks in their sights are getting older and older. One thing is abundantly clear, it ends when Putin says it does, the west is not winning this.
Part of this is true. Neither side can mount offensives, and that's why it's a stalemate and remain that way. Though Putin can't really dictate anything other than just continuing hostilities. He has no ability to take anything relevant. He can't throw men at the problem. He doesn't have the material or tech. So he can definitely choose to continue.

But make no mistake, once Ukraine is in NATO and that presence is there, it's over for good. And that day is coming.
Here you go SMR one of many of Teslag's abhorent takes.
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Teslag
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In reply to MJ20/20 • 2:31p, 12/4/24
AG
All of that remains true.
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MJ20/20
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In reply to Teslag • 2:34p, 12/4/24
AG
Teslag said:
All of that remains true.
I guess at some point all of it could be true, but not in our lifetime.
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Teslag
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In reply to MJ20/20 • 2:38p, 12/4/24
AG
It will be within the next 6 to 36 months
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nortex97
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6:27p, 12/4/24
AG
Speaker Johnson categorically rejects Biden request for $24 Billion in funding for "Ukraine" thru 2026 pending Trump direction/inauguration.
Quote:
How much does Biden and Co. want now? Twenty-four billion dollars.
Here's how that new, $24 billion breaks down. Notice the first sentence: (emphasis mine)
Quote:
The White House request to Congress would have provided additional aid for Ukraine through 2026, amid expectations that Trump will pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin for an end to the nearly three-year war.

Biden's request to Congress reportedly called for $8 billion for the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which helps provide military equipment to Ukraine, fund training of its armed forces and advisory efforts to strengthen Ukraine's defensive position against Russian aggression.

The request also included $16 billion for the Department of Defense to replenish stocks sent to Ukraine, and funds for repair of military equipment in DOD stocks. The funds are also used to reimburse the DOD for military education and training provided to the Ukrainian government or other foreign countries supporting Ukraine.

The Biden administration has about $6 billion in funds left for Ukraine, but is facing challenges in giving the full amount because of dwindling American military stockpiles.

Thank you. Wars stop when the money runs out. This has been true since at least Roman times (and based on my recollection of some Dan Carlin shows probably much earlier).
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nortex97
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6:42a, 12/5/24
AG
RT reports on an al Reuters piece claiming to know Trump has 3 plans for Kiev-Russia negotiations and a ceasefire. Meh, as long as the military aid to Kiev is cut, the war will end soon enough, imho.

This is a tangible step that will impact the Russians/war:


Zelensky supports more discord regionally, sanctioning folks from Moldova/Georgia:


Not real great to see these getting finally delivered shortly:


Kiev apologists starting to head out to semi-private sector jobs abroad:
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nortex97
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10:21a, 12/5/24
AG
Nato is a 'defensive alliance,' addressing threats 'from tanks to tweets.' Caution, language, but LOL, saying the quiet part aloud at this point.

Nato, not Russia, is the real threat to freedom in Ukraine and beyond.


This all harkens back to the reaction to 2016's election, Russian election interference lies/Mueller etc, '51 intelligence officials' letter about 'disinformation', and all the covid censorship/lies.
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MJ20/20
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:43p, 12/5/24
AG
The United States can't get out of NATO or the UN fast enough. These organizations have been compromised and no longer serve their original purpose. Unelected bureaucrats that despise our country but can't survive without it's support have thoroughly infiltrated these organizations.
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FobTies
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5:22p, 12/5/24
Another panel where historical facts are written off as "Russian Propaganda" and "Disinformation". They never refute the facts. Just bc Putin also acknowledges the facts, doesn't make them any less factual.



After trying to marginalize Horton, Gen Clark then acknowledged he was well researched and correct.
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RogerEnright
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In reply to FobTies • 8:01p, 12/5/24
FobTies said:
Another panel where historical facts are written off as "Russian Propaganda" and "Disinformation". They never refute the facts. Just bc Putin also acknowledges the facts, doesn't make them any less factual.



After trying to marginalize Horton, Gen Clark then acknowledged he was well researched and correct.
I am surprised people still invite Scott Horton to a panel as an expert. Didn't he get outed / discredited as the author of a book about Russia attacking Ukraine and he admitted that he has never visited Russia nor Ukraine?


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nortex97
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In reply to RogerEnright • 6:01a, 12/6/24
AG
No, LOL. His book, Provoked, is exceptionally well documented so the pro-war smear attempts have to question his character is all. I haven't heard that particular attack but it's really lacking in substance, so unsurprising.


Lavrov interview with Tucker Carlson is out:
Quote:
President Vladimir Putin is often falsely accused of refusing to negotiate with Ukraine, Lavrov told Carlson in the interview, which was published on Friday. Two years ago Ukraine's Vladimir Zelensky actually outlawed any talks with Moscow, apparently based on a belief that he and the West would dictate terms of a truce, Russia's top diplomat pointed out.

"For starters, why don't you tell him [Zelensky] to cancel it [the order] publicly? This will be a signal that he wants negotiations," Lavrov said.

Asked about the terms Russia would agree to, Lavrov pointed Carlson to Putin's June speech, in which the Russian president laid out Moscow's position; Ukraine would have to withdraw its forces from Russian territory, ensure the rights of Russian-speaking residents and become a neutral, nuclear-free state.
"The key principle is non-bloc status of Ukraine," Lavrov told Carlson. "No NATO. Absolutely. No military bases, no military exercises on Ukrainian soil with participation of foreign troops."

Likewise, Moscow will not tolerate any deal under which Ukraine could continue discriminating against the Russian language, media, culture and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the top diplomat added.

"We are not playing a double game," Lavrov said. "What President Putin announced is the goal of our operation. It's fair. It's fully in line with the UN Charter. First of all, the rights: language rights, minority rights, national minority rights, religious rights."

In February 2022, when the conflict escalated, Moscow pointed to Kiev's violation of the Minsk Agreements, repression of Russian-speaking residents of Ukraine and attacks on the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. Since then, Ukraine has also outlawed the canonical Orthodox Church and sought to replace it with a 'cut-out' created by the government.

Russia's objectives are also "fully in line" with the principles of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), which the US is also a member of, Lavrov pointed out. The OSCE has repeatedly declared that no one should expand their security at the expense of others and that no organization in its sphere can claim dominance, Lavrov reminded Carlson.

"NATO was doing exactly the opposite. So, we have legitimacy in our position," Lavrov said. "No NATO on our doorsteps because OSCE agreed that this should not be the case if it hurts us."


Hawley: aspirations to include Ukraine in Nato/expand further are…ridiculous/dangerous. Biden Ukraine policy has been a total disaster/is in shambles. Should have taken the much earlier deal offered. Notes Biden officials are publicly swearing by 'war forever' but privately have been saying 'we need a negotiated peace for two years.'

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RogerEnright
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:58a, 12/6/24
No doubt that he has some good points; he sure loves to mention the number of his book's citations, as if that adds validity.

Link

Oversight or not, he has little credibility.

I hope his book does well and there may be some grains of truth, but why waste your time reading something by someone who hasn't even traveled there. It sure seems like a HUGE oversight to not get firsthand knowledge of the opinion of the actual people who live there.

In disclosure, I am somewhat of a fan of Neil Ferguson and Peter Robinson.
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YouBet
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8:11a, 12/6/24
AG
Sounds familiar...

Quote:
My problem is that this is very [common] in Europe. In the case, if it is not the liberals to win an election, the democratic nature of the whole country and the whole political system is being questioned immediately. If it is liberals to win, everything's fine. If it's patriots to win, if it is conservatives to win, if it is right-wing to win, the nature of democracy is immediately questioned. And this is totally unacceptable," he said.
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nortex97
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In reply to RogerEnright • 8:37a, 12/6/24
AG
Good post, that's a nice/reasoned and informed discussion between those three. I'm not real sure having 'traveled to' makes a historian/analysis really more credible. To each their own, though. Those with more of a regional specialization admittedly do tend to have gone abroad to those locations/countries, such as with Kotkin. Bias and informed/reasoned analysis are of more interest, imho (one of the rare 'liberal' types whom I really like/respect):


Notice, for context, the current 'controversies' and staged protests in places like Georgia, Moldova, electoral unrest/tension in Romania, and then look at this map:

Now, I don't ascribe to a belief 'this is all about Black Sea resources', but rather post that to support the contention that Russia is rightly concerned about the encroachment and attacks (economic/political, and direct/kinetic). Oh, and our 'allies' we have trained/equipped are presently threatening/using drones to strike their bases in Syria. With rightly-perceived enemies clinging to power:




And Russia has continued to respond with surgical strikes:
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Aggie1205
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8:56a, 12/6/24
AG

Quote:
Now, I don't ascribe to a belief 'this is all about Black Sea resources', but rather post that to support the contention that Russia is rightly concerned about the encroachment and attacks (economic/political, and direct/kinetic).
If Russia would stop invading their smaller neighbors, you wouldn't see their smaller neighbors trying to join a defensive treaty against them.

Signed,

Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Mongolia, Iran, Afghanistan.

Thats not counting the Russians occupying all of the other Eastern European countries post WW2 and keeping them under their thumb.
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nortex97
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5:25a, 12/7/24
AG
Green goblin to meet with Trump (and Macron, nominal president of France), in Paris.



Cancelling an election because a hundred TikTok accounts got a bunch of views is really…distopian at best. Russians around every corner, though…


The money laundering/corruption from Ukraine/Russia really is at a massive scale, even the small portion that is caught:

And as with here (Biden crime familia) the corruption runs all the way to the top in Ukraine (long thread):
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nortex97
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12:50p, 12/8/24
AG
Saint Z boldly has taken to telegram to declare no to any ceasefire, after meekly meeting with Trump. More here. Really, this is just what his (CIA/State Dept) handlers are putting out there to counter Trump's peacemaking efforts, imho.





Not much else today, as my feed is flooded with Syria news. I do think this will limit Russia's power projection into Africa, but otherwise focus more-so on Ukraine. Miss Lindsey of course is parading out the absurd notion that this just means another forever war for Trump:

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nortex97
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2:05p, 12/10/24
AG
Good news for war proponents.



But in all seriousness I think this probably shows that the NSC/CIA feel the Trump plan to turn this off will work, and that he won't be dissuaded so they are just dumping as much money now as they can into Kiev.

Proxy commander sure is in a sullen mood today, though:

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