Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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Teslag
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5:57p, 8/30/24
AG
Russians doing Russian things and jailing journalists for reporting things that make Putin look bad

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-jail-journalist-b2604512.html

Quote:
The 48-year-old journalist and editor at local newspaper Listok, or Leaflet, was arrested in 2022 near Moscow for posting on the publication's Telegram channel and website about the horrors in the Ukrainian cities of Bucha and Mariupol.

Massacres of civilians in both of those locations have been well-documented, with evidence of summary executions and allegations of war crimes.
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nortex97
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In reply to Teslag • 5:30a, 8/31/24
AG
Of course, the Russians haven't actually tortured and killed an American journalist in prison, to my knowledge. RIP Gonzo.
Quote:
His arrest in May 2023, under the charges of "production and dissemination of materials justifying Russia's armed aggression against Ukraine," was a turning point. It not only highlighted the complexities of war-time free speech but also catalysed opposition movements against US funding for the conflict. High-profile figures like tech mogul Elon Musk and Fox News host Tucker Carlson called for his release, bringing global attention to his case.
The news of Lira's deteriorating health emerged from communications between his father, Gonzalo Lira Sr., and the US embassy. Documents and emails revealed attempts by Lira Sr. to alert the embassy about his son's critical condition and the lack of transparency from Ukrainian authorities regarding his health status.
"I cannot accept the way my son has died. He was tortured, extorted, incommunicado for 8 months and 11 days and the US Embassy did nothing to help my son," Lira Sr. stated in an email announcing the news.
"The responsibility of this tragedy is [with] the dictator Zelensky with the concurrence of a senile American President, Joe Biden," he wrote, adding: "My pain is unbearable. The world must know what is going on in Ukraine with that inhuman dictator Zelensky."
But enough about Russia or Ukraine, which are totalitarian states without any right to free speech, our own media is very state controlled:


And let's face it, the American left, top to bottom, doesn't favor free speech, especially political speech at all.


But at least Ukraine doesn't strike civilians deliberately, right? Well, no…


Very likely using artillery shells made in America and given to them as 'aid' there.
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nortex97
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5:44a, 8/31/24
AG
Some updates:


How many F-16's does Ukraine operate at this point, 7?





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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 6:36a, 8/31/24
AG
Quote:
But at least Ukraine doesn't strike civilians deliberately, right? Well, no…


That was errant Russian ADA…
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nortex97
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7:03a, 8/31/24
AG
Good news here is just that Russia is winning. Great episode.

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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:41a, 8/31/24
AG
Ukraine has mentally broken Sachs. Two years ago he said Ukraine was going to easily fold and now he's still clinging to any narrative he can.
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nortex97
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4:43p, 8/31/24
AG
Interesting theory.


Quote:
I've seen several reports of Ukrainian troops abandoning their positions and streaming to the rear. This is highly unusual for this war, as generally the Ukrainians defend very stubbornly. However, another report also caught my eye today - apparently a number of Ukrainian National Guard units are being transferred to the area in an attempt to stiffen the defense.

As has become well-known by now, the AFU's front-line troops are kept in their positions by "blocking detachments" with orders to fire on retreating personnel. These detachments are generally drawn from the politically-reliable Ukrainian National Guard.

As such I suspect part of the dynamic of the ongoing collapse in Pokrovsk has to do with the withdrawal of NG units previously on blocking detachment duty to throw into Kursk as reinforcements, on the theory that success in Kursk would stiffen the resolve of the AFU frontniks to fight on without a gun in their backs. This was clearly a miscalculation, and new blocking detachments are having to be sent in from God knows where in an attempt to prevent what is currently a local collapse from turning into a general rout.


I am more concerned than ever that a shocking collapse in this war on Russia will lead to a catastrophic escalation before our election season votes are counted/finalized.
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GoAgs11
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4:46p, 8/31/24
UKE is getting steamrolled
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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 5:56p, 8/31/24
AG
Quote:
As has become well-known by now, the AFU's front-line troops are kept in their positions by "blocking detachments" with orders to fire on retreating personnel.
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Teslag
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In reply to GoAgs11 • 5:56p, 8/31/24
AG
GoAgs11 said:
UKE is getting steamrolled


Based on what?
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Teslag • 6:24p, 8/31/24
AG
Teslag said:
GoAgs11 said:
UKE is getting steamrolled


Based on what?
The stuff a Russian Milblogger said.
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GAC06
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In reply to Ag with kids • 9:21p, 8/31/24
AG
Didn't the Ukrainian lines crumble a year ago according to this thread?
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nortex97
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6:08a, 9/1/24
AG
2K-3K casualties a day in the battle of the Kursk bulge lead to further breakdowns along the main axis in Donbas;








I don't link to his videos too often and really no explanation other than laziness, pretty good analysis. The crux of his message that the numerically inferior side doesn't 'want' a longer front line is a simple truth. The Kursk fiasco/PR operation has made the Russian advances easier/faster.
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nortex97
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5:55a, 9/2/24
AG
Sitrep: Maneuver warfare rebirth? Not really. A Skeptic's sitrep is lengthier/better documented today (well, it is a day or so old).



Clearly the Russians had held off on taking out this facility, and many others but the Ukrainian strikes at Russian infrastructure is being retaliated against.



Also a bunch of strikes in Pokrovsk, Kiev, and Kharkiv. Azov folks are having a rough day.



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OPAG
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:40a, 9/2/24
AG
I thought his analysis on the nuke situation and Germany was outstanding.

I marked that here:






"only one thing is important!"
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nortex97
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5:28a, 9/4/24
AG
Something afoot in Kiev: substantially the whole government/cabinet just resigned/was fired.




Huge Russian strikes overnight, including Poltava where Swedish trainers were training UFA folks on the Saab 340-based AEWC platform.



New FAB-500 glide bombs have a range of 75-85Km, keeping the Su-34 launch aircraft substantially safe from anti-aircraft fire.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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6:32a, 9/4/24
AG
"Students"
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to nortex97 • 6:41a, 9/4/24
AG
nortex97 said:




Quote:
Following a Ukrainian withdrawal Russian forces have secured the remaining fornications of the pre war Donetsk line.
This is just amusing...
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nortex97
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In reply to Ag with kids • 10:15a, 9/4/24
AG
I can say I agree with you on that one, nice catch.

This, however, really is sad, though I am not of the opinion it was anything but a military target.



The Ukrainian strike on the Sokol market in Donetsk City is equally sad, though fewer casualties, and…of course it's not a military target. Too graphic to share, imho.

Fortunately, the Neocon-Dem ticket is losing, right now;
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P.U.T.U
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10:33a, 9/4/24
AG
There is no reason that the Donbas and Donetsk regions should have been taken over by the Russians before a treaty was in place. In the end Russia wanted these regions and Crimea, yeah it sucks that Russia invaded and took them over but at what cost of human lives? Russia is completely at fault here but sometimes you have to cut your losses.

I really do wonder what Zelensky's end game is, Ukraine can't keep fighting like this without losing thousands more men and more territories. I figure he is trying to ride it out until the election and if I was Russia I would be doing exactly what they are doing now, start bombing power plants and infrastructures that would cause suffering in the winter. If a large part of the citizens suffer this winter due to Zelensky's policies he will get even more unpopular very quickly.
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Teslag
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 11:18a, 9/4/24
AG
Who says he's unpopular?
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Ag with kids
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 11:19a, 9/4/24
AG
P.U.T.U said:
There is no reason that the Donbas and Donetsk regions should have been taken over by the Russians before a treaty was in place. In the end Russia wanted these regions and Crimea, yeah it sucks that Russia invaded and took them over but at what cost of human lives? Russia is completely at fault here but sometimes you have to cut your losses.

I really do wonder what Zelensky's end game is, Ukraine can't keep fighting like this without losing thousands more men and more territories. I figure he is trying to ride it out until the election and if I was Russia I would be doing exactly what they are doing now, start bombing power plants and infrastructures that would cause suffering in the winter. If a large part of the citizens suffer this winter due to Zelensky's policies he will get even more unpopular very quickly.
I think that's considered a war crime, so I'm going to guess that's exactly what Putin will do.
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Teslag
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In reply to Ag with kids • 11:23a, 9/4/24
AG
And it's odd to say it's "Zelensky's policies" at fault and not the man ordering said war crime…
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nortex97
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 11:46a, 9/4/24
AG
Not gonna belabor the point further today but the CIA-Maiden Nuland revolution quickly led to UFA shelling of the suddenly separatist DPR forces, and population centers in Donetsk.
Quote:
The armed conflict in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014. Between then and early 2022, it had already killed over 14,000 people. Over the course of eight years, Ukrainian government forces fought Russian-backed separatists for control over much of the two heavily industrialised regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, also known as Donbas. Fierce battles in 2014-2015 ended with one third of the regions' territory, its most urbanised part, occupied by two Russian proxy statelets, the self-described Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. Between September 2014 and February 2015, Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany signed several iterations of the so-called Minsk agreements, which eventually stopped the forward movement of troops and reduced fighting significantly. But the agreements were never implemented, and the fighting transformed into a trench war, with roughly 75,000 troops facing off along a 420-km-long front line cutting through densely populated areas. The war ruined the area's economy and heavy industries, forced millions to relocate and turned the conflict zone into one of the world's most mine-contaminated areas.
Many don't know this killed 14K people between the Revolution and 2022. These regions will never return to Ukraine/Kiev (in my lifetime). And frankly, I cannot say I have ever read an account as to why I should care if they are part of Russia or Ukraine-Kiev.

If Zelensky were even reasonably popular they'd have at least tried to have a Venezuelan style election, which hasn't happened for obvious reasons. He'll be discarded after our election/vote counting month, likely to be treated at-best as per the Shah in Iran, as Jimmy Carter loved him some Ayatollah's:



But the "American" (CCP) left, of course, has only one playbook; blame Putin.

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Teslag
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:57a, 9/4/24
AG
Zelensky still has 60% approval ratings in Ukraine. And why shouldn't he? He's the only reason the country still exists.
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P.U.T.U
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12:08p, 9/4/24
AG
Russia has committed tons of war crimes, heck early on they tested soil samples in 6 different cities and all tested positive for chemical weapons. Then all of the citizens they murdered and try to cover up burying them in mass graves.

I specifically said Putin was at fault, y'all need to stop twisting words to fit your own agendas.

Since 2014 you have had Russia and Ukraine separatist groups in the Donbas area fighting for control and for the most part it has been a stalemate. Now if what is being reported is true the Russians are now in control.

Including the history of Iran is an entirely different subject except for the CIA led to it becoming a Muslim controlled nation. They used to be close allies until the 1980s when we tried to play both sides of the Iran Iraq war. The USA first messed up in 1953 and did not help itself in the region after that
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Ag with kids
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In reply to nortex97 • 12:22p, 9/4/24
AG
nortex97 said:

If Zelensky were even reasonably popular they'd have at least tried to have a Venezuelan style election, which hasn't happened for obvious reasons. He'll be discarded after our election/vote counting month, likely to be treated at-best as per the Shah in Iran, as Jimmy Carter loved him some Ayatollah's:

How could Zelenzsky hold elections?

A significant chunk of Ukraine is occupied by Russian troops. How could the election occur in those areas?

And...if he leaves out the occupied areas from the election, that will be claimed as proof that those areas are accepted to be NOT part of Ukraine.

Quote:
But the "American" (CCP) left, of course, has only one playbook; blame Putin.
a) I'm American, not "American"
b) I'm not on the left
b) It is 100% Putin's fault.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 12:25p, 9/4/24
AG
P.U.T.U said:
Russia has committed tons of war crimes, heck early on they tested soil samples in 6 different cities and all tested positive for chemical weapons. Then all of the citizens they murdered and try to cover up burying them in mass graves.

I specifically said Putin was at fault, y'all need to stop twisting words to fit your own agendas.

Since 2014 you have had Russia and Ukraine separatist groups in the Donbas area fighting for control and for the most part it has been a stalemate. Now if what is being reported is true the Russians are now in control.

Including the history of Iran is an entirely different subject except for the CIA led to it becoming a Muslim controlled nation. They used to be close allies until the 1980s when we tried to play both sides of the Iran Iraq war. The USA first messed up in 1953 and did not help itself in the region after that
It was actually 1979. That's when the Ayatollah came back and the Shah was deposed. And they took the hostages. The new government hated the US for getting rid of Mosaddegh and allowing the Shah to take over...
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P.U.T.U
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In reply to Ag with kids • 12:30p, 9/4/24
AG
USA was solely on the Iran side until 1982 and then we started providing intelligence to Iraq. Pretty much every time we got involved in a conflict since 1950 we messed it up more
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 12:31p, 9/4/24
P.U.T.U said:
There is no reason that the Donbas and Donetsk regions should have been taken over by the Russians before a treaty was in place. In the end Russia wanted these regions and Crimea, yeah it sucks that Russia invaded and took them over but at what cost of human lives? Russia is completely at fault here but sometimes you have to cut your losses.

I really do wonder what Zelensky's end game is, Ukraine can't keep fighting like this without losing thousands more men and more territories. I figure he is trying to ride it out until the election and if I was Russia I would be doing exactly what they are doing now, start bombing power plants and infrastructures that would cause suffering in the winter. If a large part of the citizens suffer this winter due to Zelensky's policies he will get even more unpopular very quickly.


I think he's probably just trying to continue to make Putin's unprovoked invasion as painful for Russia as possible until Putin hopefully decides to give up and things end up pretty much where they are now. He can't do that forever, but as long as the aid continues to come in I don't see why he would stop, at least not before the election in November. All of his actions have been completely understandable for a country trying to fight off a neighbor thats 3x larger and there's not really any legitimate sign (outside of Russian propaganda) that he's unpopular among the majority of Ukrainians.
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nortex97
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 3:12a, 9/5/24
AG
Correct. Carter lamely negotiated with him for months before approving his flight to Tehran, buying into the Ayatollah's lies. Much of this was actually declassified recently. Sorry, not to derail the thread over my vitriol for the vile Jimmy Carter.

Longish sitrep. Iskander production/volume of attacks clearly ramped up.

The latest Russia Russia Russia lies about Putin preferring Trump seem to be…just that. I'm sure the Russians are laughing hysterically.




Forever war.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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12:58p, 9/5/24
AG
I don't think stalemate is an accurate description. I don't think it ever was, but it is certainly not correct now.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 1:13p, 9/5/24
AG
Still using the zoom feature on those maps I see. Reality is a bit different though in this stalemate.

In other news, Russia still whining about their fake red lines again.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/04/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news23/




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nortex97
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3:21p, 9/5/24
AG
Ukrainian MP (not speaking in $USD):



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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 6:46p, 9/5/24
AG
72 Sq Km will look smaller/larger depending on zoom, yes, but it still 72 Sq Km.

Not a ton of land, but a noticeable increase for anyone who is not plugging their ears and declaring "stalemate"
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
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