Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
What would it take to prove you wrong? Be specific so we can actually come back to this and measure.
Russia taking Kherson Odessa or Kiev
PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:
There is nothing disingenuous about pointing out Russia's complete inability to mount an offensive. Then again, I could be wrong and Russia wouldn't be struggling to take an uninhabited village of 9,000 people as their first offensive achievement in almost two years.
Nothing I said was wrong or has been shown to be incorrect.
Yet.
Ah okay. Russia is super serous this time.
I think Uke's capability (or lack thereof) is the one that you should be worried about.
Ag with kids said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:
There is nothing disingenuous about pointing out Russia's complete inability to mount an offensive. Then again, I could be wrong and Russia wouldn't be struggling to take an uninhabited village of 9,000 people as their first offensive achievement in almost two years.
Nothing I said was wrong or has been shown to be incorrect.
Yet.
Ah okay. Russia is super serous this time.
I think Uke's capability (or lack thereof) is the one that you should be worried about.
Totally not rooting for the Russians...
Retired US diplomat Chas W. Freeman
— Matt Davies (@MNormanDavies) January 5, 2024
Kyiv is already struggling to meet its recruitment goals...
Ukraine...is being destroyed
...Nato is about to run out of Ukrainians...https://t.co/0gEDrDhmPd
Quote:
The way the American media has dealt with the Ukraine War brings to mind a remark credited to Mark Twain: "The researches of many commentators have already thrown much darkness on this subject, and it is probable that, if they continue, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."
It is a more verbose expression of a better-known maxim: in war, truth is the first casualty. It is typically accompanied by a fog of official lies. And no such fog has ever been as thick as in the Ukraine war. While many hundreds of thousands of people have fought and died in Ukraine, the propaganda machines in Brussels, Kyiv, London, Moscow and Washington have worked overtime to ensure that we take passionate sides, believe what we want to believe, and condemn anyone who questions the narrative we have internalised. The consequences for all have been dire. For Ukraine, they have been catastrophic. As we enter a new year, a radical rethinking of policy by all concerned is long overdue.
This is a consequence of the fact that the war was born in and has been continued due to miscalculations by all sides. The United States calculated that Russian threats to go to war over Ukrainian neutrality were bluffs that might be deterred by outlining and denigrating Russian plans. Russia assumed that the United States would prefer negotiations to war and would wish to avoid the redivision of Europe into hostile blocs. Ukrainians counted on the West protecting their country. When Russia's performance in the first months of the war proved lacklustre, the West concluded that Ukraine could defeat it. None of these calculations has proved correct.
Nevertheless, official propaganda, amplified by subservient mainstream and social media, has convinced most in the West that rejecting a draft peace treaty before the invasion and encouraging Ukraine to fight Russia is somehow "pro-Ukrainian". Sympathy for the Ukrainian war effort is entirely understandable, but, as the Vietnam War should have taught us, democracies lose when cheerleading replaces objectivity in reporting and governments prefer their own propaganda to the truth of what is happening on the battleground. So, what is happening on the battleground? And how are the participants in the Ukraine War doing in terms of achieving their objectives?
Pretty horrifically on point.Quote:
When the war began, Ukraine had a population of about 31 million. The country has since lost at least one third of its people. More than six million have taken refuge in the West. Two million more have left for Russia. Another eight million Ukrainians have been driven from their homes but remain in the country. Ukraine's infrastructure, industries, and cities have been devastated and its economy destroyed. As is usual in wars, corruption long a prominent feature of Ukrainian politics has been rampant. Ukraine's nascent democracy is no more, with opposition parties, uncontrolled media outlets, and dissent outlawed. On the other hand, Russian aggression has united Ukrainians, including many who are Russian-speaking, to an extent never seen before. Moscow has thereby inadvertently reinforced the separate Ukrainian identity that both Russian mythology and President Putin have sought to deny. What Ukraine has lost in territory it has gained in patriotic cohesion based on passionate opposition to Moscow.
The flipside of this is that Ukraine's Russian-speaking separatists have also had their Russian identity reinforced. There is now little to no possibility of Russian speakers accepting a status in a united Ukraine, as would have been the case under the Minsk Accords. And, with the failure of Ukraine's "counteroffensive", it is very unlikely that Donbas or Crimea will ever return to Ukrainian sovereignty. As the war continues, Ukraine may well lose still more territory, including its access to the Black Sea. What has been lost on the battlefield and in the hearts of the people cannot be regained at the negotiating table. Ukraine will emerge from this war maimed, crippled, and much reduced in both territory and population.
Moreover, there is now no realistic prospect of Ukrainian membership of Nato. As NSC Advisor Jake Sullivan has said, everyone "needs to look squarely at the fact" that allowing Ukraine to join Nato at this point "means war with Russia". For his part, Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has stated that the prerequisite for Ukrainian membership in Nato is a peace treaty between it and Russia. But no such treaty is in sight. In continuing to insist that Ukraine will become a Nato member once the war is concluded, the West has perversely incentivised Russia not to agree to end the war. In the end, Ukraine will have to make its peace with Russia, almost certainly largely on Russian terms.
PlaneCrashGuy said:Ag with kids said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:
There is nothing disingenuous about pointing out Russia's complete inability to mount an offensive. Then again, I could be wrong and Russia wouldn't be struggling to take an uninhabited village of 9,000 people as their first offensive achievement in almost two years.
Nothing I said was wrong or has been shown to be incorrect.
Yet.
Ah okay. Russia is super serous this time.
I think Uke's capability (or lack thereof) is the one that you should be worried about.
Totally not rooting for the Russians...
Correct. This is war, not a sports team.
Yeah, well, a distraction might be needed by Team Biden vs. DJT here in 9 or 10 months.Quote:
Opposing forces should never invade Russia, tech billionaire Elon Musk has insisted during a discussion of military strategies over the past few centuries on his platform, X (formerly Twitter).
In his message on Thursday, Musk argued that 18th and early 19th-century British naval commander Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson was "incredible." He also praised Arthur Wellesley, the First Duke of Wellington, who was among the military leaders who defeated French Emperor Napoleon in the Battle of Waterloo in 1815.
"Wellington is usually underrated. Not on Napoleon's level, but still one of the best generals in history imo," SpaceX and Tesla CEO wrote.
In response to his comment, one of the users suggested that Napoleon was actually "not so smart" when he launched his failed Russian campaign in 1812.
Musk seemingly agreed with the notion, replying: "Just don't invade Russia. It's never a good idea."
Quote:
President Vladimir Zelensky's former aide made the remarks during a joint broadcast with journalist Yulia Latynina on Friday, in which he commented on the EU Council's decision in mid-December to begin negotiations on Ukraine's accession to the bloc.
"No matter how much we want to join NATO and the EU we are not welcome there," he said.
Arestovich observed that the price for even the "possibility" of Ukraine joining NATO was the start of "a big war with Russia," adding that the same applied to other Western nations as well. The West is "not ready to pay this price," he said.
Ukraine's goal of "joining a big union" is "unfeasible" and the only way out of this situation is to "stop humiliating itself," so that foreign and domestic policy issues will be handled in Kiev, "not in Brussels, Washington or Moscow," Arestovich said.
[url=https://www.rt.com/news/589152-macron-ukraine-eu-membership/][/url]
Kiev should therefore "recognize reality" and begin to develop in its own direction, instead of pursuing the "illusion" of reclaiming its 1991 borders and entering the EU and NATO, he argued. He also cited Trkiye, Azerbaijan, Israel, and South Korea as examples of states that are not members of these unions and are "doing quite well."
The decision to open formal negotiations on Ukraine's accession to the EU was taken on December 15 by 26 of the bloc's 27 member states. Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has been one of the main opponents of Kiev's entry into the bloc, said his country "does not want to participate in this bad decision" and left the room when the vote was taken.
Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky announced in September 2022 that he was accelerating his country's application to join NATO, claiming that "de facto we have already made our way into NATO" and that the request was made "to make it de jure."
nortex97 said:Yeah, well, a distraction might be needed by Team Biden vs. DJT here in 9 or 10 months.Quote:
Opposing forces should never invade Russia, tech billionaire Elon Musk has insisted during a discussion of military strategies over the past few centuries on his platform, X (formerly Twitter).
In his message on Thursday, Musk argued that 18th and early 19th-century British naval commander Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson was "incredible." He also praised Arthur Wellesley, the First Duke of Wellington, who was among the military leaders who defeated French Emperor Napoleon in the Battle of Waterloo in 1815.
"Wellington is usually underrated. Not on Napoleon's level, but still one of the best generals in history imo," SpaceX and Tesla CEO wrote.
In response to his comment, one of the users suggested that Napoleon was actually "not so smart" when he launched his failed Russian campaign in 1812.
Musk seemingly agreed with the notion, replying: "Just don't invade Russia. It's never a good idea."Quote:
President Vladimir Zelensky's former aide made the remarks during a joint broadcast with journalist Yulia Latynina on Friday, in which he commented on the EU Council's decision in mid-December to begin negotiations on Ukraine's accession to the bloc.
"No matter how much we want to join NATO and the EU we are not welcome there," he said.
Arestovich observed that the price for even the "possibility" of Ukraine joining NATO was the start of "a big war with Russia," adding that the same applied to other Western nations as well. The West is "not ready to pay this price," he said.
Ukraine's goal of "joining a big union" is "unfeasible" and the only way out of this situation is to "stop humiliating itself," so that foreign and domestic policy issues will be handled in Kiev, "not in Brussels, Washington or Moscow," Arestovich said.
[url=https://www.rt.com/news/589152-macron-ukraine-eu-membership/][/url]
Kiev should therefore "recognize reality" and begin to develop in its own direction, instead of pursuing the "illusion" of reclaiming its 1991 borders and entering the EU and NATO, he argued. He also cited Trkiye, Azerbaijan, Israel, and South Korea as examples of states that are not members of these unions and are "doing quite well."
The decision to open formal negotiations on Ukraine's accession to the EU was taken on December 15 by 26 of the bloc's 27 member states. Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has been one of the main opponents of Kiev's entry into the bloc, said his country "does not want to participate in this bad decision" and left the room when the vote was taken.
Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky announced in September 2022 that he was accelerating his country's application to join NATO, claiming that "de facto we have already made our way into NATO" and that the request was made "to make it de jure."
Teslag said:
Most of what comes out of Ukraines government is propaganda
Four state Democratic parties have moved to make Biden the only candidate on the Democratic primary ballot for 2024
— Polling USA (@USA_Polling) January 2, 2024
Florida
Massachusetts
North Carolina
Tennessee pic.twitter.com/DCf83sMRa2
This is where we saw a Ukrainian platoon surrendering to Ru forces. https://t.co/WXI2xrZof8
— ayden (@squatsons) January 5, 2024
Yeah because right now NK and Iran are totally just helping Russia to stand on its own feet and build its own industrial base, not giving all they can to help it win the war. What a ridiculous statement. https://t.co/K8mYQqeqhZ
— WarTranslated (Dmitri) (@wartranslated) January 5, 2024
New: #NATO Allies group together to buy up to 1,000 Patriot air defence missiles amid Russia’s war on Ukraine.
— Matthias Eichenlaub (@MattEichenlaub) January 3, 2024
Valued at $ 5,5 billion, this is one of the biggest-ever purchases by NATO’s Support & Procurement Agency - @NSPA_NATO More: https://t.co/fNmF4hHewe pic.twitter.com/l56nkMTUe5
Burisma, Ukrainian company that paid the Bidens millions in bribes, retroactively registers as a foreign agent.Quote:
The war in Ukraine continues to grind on and Ukrainian troops are falling back all across the 600 mile front. Not a good start to the New Year for Zelensky and the future is bleak at best. Russia is methodically destroying Ukrainian factories set up to manufacture military tactical clothing, ammunition, drones and vehicles. Repair facilities also have been hit and obliterated. Ditto for military training facilities aka bases. Ukraine's recent use of cluster munitions on Belgorod and Donetsk killed a few civilians but enraged Putin and his military commanders. In response Russia has unleashed a devastating series of missile, drone and rocket attacks across the breadth of Ukraine and vowed to keep doing so. So much for Western hopes of building manufacturing plants in Ukraine to keep it in the war.
Panic among Western analysts about Ukraine's looming defeat has escalated.
"Chill" about cuts to aid to Kiev:Quote:
According to the conversation between a confidential source and Burisma CFO Vadim Pojarski in 2015, Hunter Biden was hired onto the company's board to 'protect us, through his dad, from all kinds of problems.'
Burisma CEO Mykola Zlochevsky told the source: 'It costs 5 (million) to pay one Biden, and 5 (million) to another Biden.'
Zlochevsky added that, although Hunter 'was stupid,' and his (Zlochevsky's) dog was smarter, he was needed on the board 'so everything will be okay.'
The form goes on to allege that the $10 million total was used in exchange for the then-Vice President's influence in getting a senior prosecutor fired.
Burisma was looking to spend up to $30 million on a U.S.-based oil and gas company. However, at the time, it was also the subject of a criminal investigation by Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, which the company knew 'would have a substantial negative impact on Burisma's prospective IPO in the United States.'
When asked about the investigation, the form states that Zlochevsky replied: 'Don't worry Hunter will take care of all of those issues through his dad.'
Later, then-Vice President Joe Biden made a public statement that Shokin was 'corrupt, and that he should be fired/removed from office.'
Shokin was eventually removed not long after Biden's public statements.
No worries, everything is fine. Pro-UFA Rob Lee:Quote:
Ukraine's foreign minister has urged citizens not to be excessively worried about delays in US aid, while playing down warnings of a funding cut.
Dmitry Kuleba took to Instagram on Friday after Ukrainian media quoted State Department spokesman Matthew Miller commenting on an expected drop in military assistance.
"This is not about supporting Ukraine in 2024," Kiev's foreign minister insisted. "The State Department said that when Ukraine is firmly on its feet and there are enough weapons and resources to counter Russian aggression, then the amount of support can be reduced."
"Chill. Don't look for extra reasons to worry that will bring you into a state of agony and depression," he added.
Obviously, it is critical that the US pass the supplemental aid package as soon as possible, but, looking at production/stockpile estimates, the relative ammunition situation for Ukraine in 2024 will not be as favorable as it was this summer.
— Rob Lee (@RALee85) January 6, 2024
⚡️An automated turret with a Browning M2 machine gun is in service with the 🇺🇦5th Separate Assault Brigade. pic.twitter.com/jKEGe273vz
— 🇺🇦Ukrainian Front (@front_ukrainian) January 5, 2024
This is DEFINITELY another perspective on the Russia/Ukraine war...PlaneCrashGuy said:Four state Democratic parties have moved to make Biden the only candidate on the Democratic primary ballot for 2024
— Polling USA (@USA_Polling) January 2, 2024
Florida
Massachusetts
North Carolina
Tennessee pic.twitter.com/DCf83sMRa2
Their elections are totally rigged man.
I don't really recall the discussion but I certainly don't condone the Russians either, when they have targeted civilians specifically. I've stated a few times that both sides have certainly committed horrible war crimes in this conflict.PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
In the Danish press the reason is stated as the training takes longer not only of the pilots but also of the supporting staff. I remember it was mentioned when the trainees (also the pilots) arrived that some has zero English and they had to pass English courses for 3 months
— Henrik Jensen (@HenrikJ89661798) January 6, 2024
Ah yes...PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
And the Russians spent 1.5 years taking an abandoned town. THAT is their gain after their initial assault was repelled.Double Diamond said:
The war is over. Ukraine could never win without the United States becoming totally involved. Ukraine hasn't moved an inch of ground in 12 months.
You're another one on the "Russia's military is stronger" bandwagon?Double Diamond said:
Russia can do this for decades. They have the industrial base. And the man power. Ukraine is pulling old men out to the front line. What's ironic is we've made Russia into everything a feared. A fully awake totally militarized country with their war machine fully awake. They've learned from their mistakes and are battle hardened over this. The US isn't good at these war games. Haven't been good at this post WWII.
J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
Back to making things up. You're a sad dude.
Please provide the acceptable date and time range.J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
Back to making things up. You're a sad dude.
Feel free to share one time you criticized Russia for attacking civilians while they were the only ones doing it.
Yeah...they're building 200 T-90s a month.Double Diamond said:
Yeah because they are. They have totally amped up military production. It's not a bandwagon it's a fact.
The first 6 months of the SMO...PlaneCrashGuy said:Please provide the acceptable date and time range.J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
Back to making things up. You're a sad dude.
Feel free to share one time you criticized Russia for attacking civilians while they were the only ones doing it.
PlaneCrashGuy said:Please provide the acceptable date and time range.J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
Back to making things up. You're a sad dude.
Feel free to share one time you criticized Russia for attacking civilians while they were the only ones doing it.
Quote:
Go ahead, blame them all on errant ADA
MARCH 9, 2022 An apartment building in Izium in eastern Ukraine was hit in an attack that Human Rights Watch later said killed at least 44 people. Russian forces took control of the city and surrounding area beginning in late March and occupied it for six months. At the time of the strike, HRW said the area was under the control of Ukrainian forces who were trying to keep Russian troops from entering the city.
MARCH 16, 2022 A Russian airstrike hit a theater in Mariupol, killing hundreds of civilians sheltering in the basement. Ukrainian officials initially put the death toll at 300, but an Associated Press investigation later found evidence that the attack was far deadlier and killed closer to 600 people inside and outside the building. Russia claimed the theater was demolished by Ukrainian forces or served as a Ukrainian military base.
APRIL 8, 2022 The train station in Kramatorsk in eastern Ukraine was hit by a Russian missile as passengers, mostly women and children, tried to flee the fighting. Sixty-one people were killed and 135 wounded. The remnants of a rocket were painted with the words "For the children" in Russian, implying that children were being avenged by the strike, though the exact reason for the wording was unclear. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said it was a deliberate attack. Russia's Defense Ministry accused Ukraine of carrying out the strike.
JUNE 27, 2022 Long-range Russian bombers struck a crowded shopping mall in Ukraine's central city of Kremenchuk with a supersonic missile, killing more than 20 people. About 1,000 people were inside the building. Zelenskyy called the strike "one of the most daring terrorist attacks in European history." Russia said the missile was directed at a nearby weapons depot.
JULY 1, 2022 A Russian airstrike on residential areas killed at least 21 people near the Ukrainian port of Odesa, a day after the withdrawal of Russian forces from an island in the Black Sea. Zelenskyy's office said warplanes fired three missiles that struck an apartment building and a campsite.
JULY 9, 2022 Russian rockets smashed into apartment buildings in eastern Ukraine, killing at least 15 people in the town of Chasiv Yar. The buildings were mostly home to people who work in nearby factories. At least six people were dug out of the rubble.
JULY 14, 2022 Kalibr cruise missiles fired from a Russian ship in the Black Sea killed at least 29 people and wounded more than 100 others in the central Ukrainian city of Vinnytsia. Zelenskyy accused Russia of deliberately targeting civilians in locations with no military value. He said the victims included a 4-year-old girl. Russia said it was attacking a Ukrainian officers' residence.
SEPT. 30, 2022 Four Russian missiles targeted a convoy of cars on the outskirts of the southern city of Zaporizhzhia, killing 30 people, including children. Ukrainian officials said the missiles were launched from an S-300 anti-aircraft missile system and hit a column of vehicles sent to ferry people to safety from Russian-occupied territory.
JAN. 14, 2023 One of the deadliest attacks on civilians took place when a Russian missile hit an apartment building in the southeastern city of Dnipro, killing 45 people, including six children. Ukrainian military officials said at the time that they did not have a system that could take down the type of the supersonic missile that was used, Russia's Kh-22 missiles
J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Please provide the acceptable date and time range.J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
Back to making things up. You're a sad dude.
Feel free to share one time you criticized Russia for attacking civilians while they were the only ones doing it.
How about any of these from a post a few pages back that you conveniently ignored? Russia has been attacking civilians since they launched their unprovoked invasion, yet nothing but crickets from the "other perspective" cheerleaders until Ukraine decides to return the favor.Quote:
Go ahead, blame them all on errant ADA
MARCH 9, 2022 An apartment building in Izium in eastern Ukraine was hit in an attack that Human Rights Watch later said killed at least 44 people. Russian forces took control of the city and surrounding area beginning in late March and occupied it for six months. At the time of the strike, HRW said the area was under the control of Ukrainian forces who were trying to keep Russian troops from entering the city.
MARCH 16, 2022 A Russian airstrike hit a theater in Mariupol, killing hundreds of civilians sheltering in the basement. Ukrainian officials initially put the death toll at 300, but an Associated Press investigation later found evidence that the attack was far deadlier and killed closer to 600 people inside and outside the building. Russia claimed the theater was demolished by Ukrainian forces or served as a Ukrainian military base.
APRIL 8, 2022 The train station in Kramatorsk in eastern Ukraine was hit by a Russian missile as passengers, mostly women and children, tried to flee the fighting. Sixty-one people were killed and 135 wounded. The remnants of a rocket were painted with the words "For the children" in Russian, implying that children were being avenged by the strike, though the exact reason for the wording was unclear. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said it was a deliberate attack. Russia's Defense Ministry accused Ukraine of carrying out the strike.
JUNE 27, 2022 Long-range Russian bombers struck a crowded shopping mall in Ukraine's central city of Kremenchuk with a supersonic missile, killing more than 20 people. About 1,000 people were inside the building. Zelenskyy called the strike "one of the most daring terrorist attacks in European history." Russia said the missile was directed at a nearby weapons depot.
JULY 1, 2022 A Russian airstrike on residential areas killed at least 21 people near the Ukrainian port of Odesa, a day after the withdrawal of Russian forces from an island in the Black Sea. Zelenskyy's office said warplanes fired three missiles that struck an apartment building and a campsite.
JULY 9, 2022 Russian rockets smashed into apartment buildings in eastern Ukraine, killing at least 15 people in the town of Chasiv Yar. The buildings were mostly home to people who work in nearby factories. At least six people were dug out of the rubble.
JULY 14, 2022 Kalibr cruise missiles fired from a Russian ship in the Black Sea killed at least 29 people and wounded more than 100 others in the central Ukrainian city of Vinnytsia. Zelenskyy accused Russia of deliberately targeting civilians in locations with no military value. He said the victims included a 4-year-old girl. Russia said it was attacking a Ukrainian officers' residence.
SEPT. 30, 2022 Four Russian missiles targeted a convoy of cars on the outskirts of the southern city of Zaporizhzhia, killing 30 people, including children. Ukrainian officials said the missiles were launched from an S-300 anti-aircraft missile system and hit a column of vehicles sent to ferry people to safety from Russian-occupied territory.
JAN. 14, 2023 One of the deadliest attacks on civilians took place when a Russian missile hit an apartment building in the southeastern city of Dnipro, killing 45 people, including six children. Ukrainian military officials said at the time that they did not have a system that could take down the type of the supersonic missile that was used, Russia's Kh-22 missiles
Ag with kids said:The first 6 months of the SMO...PlaneCrashGuy said:Please provide the acceptable date and time range.J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
Back to making things up. You're a sad dude.
Feel free to share one time you criticized Russia for attacking civilians while they were the only ones doing it.
PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Please provide the acceptable date and time range.J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:J. Walter Weatherman said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
Enough aid is not coming and strikes on civilians (I remain the only poster to condemn this by both sides) have consequences. Great update.
The "both sides" excuse sort of goes out the window when one side is the only reason why the war is happening in the first place.
That is certainly an opinion you can have, but I am not shy about my belief that no one should be attacking civilians.
You were pretty shy about it when Russia was the only one doing it.
Back to making things up. You're a sad dude.
Feel free to share one time you criticized Russia for attacking civilians while they were the only ones doing it.
How about any of these from a post a few pages back that you conveniently ignored? Russia has been attacking civilians since they launched their unprovoked invasion, yet nothing but crickets from the "other perspective" cheerleaders until Ukraine decides to return the favor.Quote:
Go ahead, blame them all on errant ADA
MARCH 9, 2022 An apartment building in Izium in eastern Ukraine was hit in an attack that Human Rights Watch later said killed at least 44 people. Russian forces took control of the city and surrounding area beginning in late March and occupied it for six months. At the time of the strike, HRW said the area was under the control of Ukrainian forces who were trying to keep Russian troops from entering the city.
MARCH 16, 2022 A Russian airstrike hit a theater in Mariupol, killing hundreds of civilians sheltering in the basement. Ukrainian officials initially put the death toll at 300, but an Associated Press investigation later found evidence that the attack was far deadlier and killed closer to 600 people inside and outside the building. Russia claimed the theater was demolished by Ukrainian forces or served as a Ukrainian military base.
APRIL 8, 2022 The train station in Kramatorsk in eastern Ukraine was hit by a Russian missile as passengers, mostly women and children, tried to flee the fighting. Sixty-one people were killed and 135 wounded. The remnants of a rocket were painted with the words "For the children" in Russian, implying that children were being avenged by the strike, though the exact reason for the wording was unclear. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said it was a deliberate attack. Russia's Defense Ministry accused Ukraine of carrying out the strike.
JUNE 27, 2022 Long-range Russian bombers struck a crowded shopping mall in Ukraine's central city of Kremenchuk with a supersonic missile, killing more than 20 people. About 1,000 people were inside the building. Zelenskyy called the strike "one of the most daring terrorist attacks in European history." Russia said the missile was directed at a nearby weapons depot.
JULY 1, 2022 A Russian airstrike on residential areas killed at least 21 people near the Ukrainian port of Odesa, a day after the withdrawal of Russian forces from an island in the Black Sea. Zelenskyy's office said warplanes fired three missiles that struck an apartment building and a campsite.
JULY 9, 2022 Russian rockets smashed into apartment buildings in eastern Ukraine, killing at least 15 people in the town of Chasiv Yar. The buildings were mostly home to people who work in nearby factories. At least six people were dug out of the rubble.
JULY 14, 2022 Kalibr cruise missiles fired from a Russian ship in the Black Sea killed at least 29 people and wounded more than 100 others in the central Ukrainian city of Vinnytsia. Zelenskyy accused Russia of deliberately targeting civilians in locations with no military value. He said the victims included a 4-year-old girl. Russia said it was attacking a Ukrainian officers' residence.
SEPT. 30, 2022 Four Russian missiles targeted a convoy of cars on the outskirts of the southern city of Zaporizhzhia, killing 30 people, including children. Ukrainian officials said the missiles were launched from an S-300 anti-aircraft missile system and hit a column of vehicles sent to ferry people to safety from Russian-occupied territory.
JAN. 14, 2023 One of the deadliest attacks on civilians took place when a Russian missile hit an apartment building in the southeastern city of Dnipro, killing 45 people, including six children. Ukrainian military officials said at the time that they did not have a system that could take down the type of the supersonic missile that was used, Russia's Kh-22 missiles
I condemn all of this. Your turn? Or are you the one on the record supporting the killing of Russia Civilians?
