The Green Dragon said:

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Consciousness objector. Go fight your wars. I'll take care of mine while you fight for the federal government and padding the rich's pocketbooks.

I fell for geedubs lies in 2003. **** all that nonsense.

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Hey comrade, it's Conscientious objector

jwoodmd said:

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Artorias said:

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Teslag said:

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Nothing says rugged patriot like sending an LGBT kid to fight in a war that little Colton is too good for. He's far more important to his select baseball team back here.

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Feel free to send your kids to some ****hole country to die for some pointless war/conflict. My kid is staying home. If China brings the fight to US soil, different discussion.

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If your kid is an adult then he can make that choice. Also, if US soil is attacked, would you not personally defend it? Or would you just "send your son" - geez.

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Cool strawman

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Am I missing some kind of push to send troops to Ukraine? Why is this even a talking point?

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Guy is just talking, but it will expand beyond Ukraine's borders.

Our support for Ukraine is a farce and is unsustainable both.

Some math on the Ukraine scam:

Our GDP is $23.3 trillion and our defense spending is $1.9 trillion. About 8-9%.

Ukraine’s GDP is $200 billion and we’ve given them around $70 billion for defense. About 33%.

Russia’s entire global defense budget is $84 billion. So we’ve… https://t.co/XdVwBOHi4F

— John Cardillo (@johncardillo) February 22, 2023

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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Here's the proof you all are arguing semantics.

Would anyone disagree we are escalating our support with more funds and more equipment and more powerful offensive equipment?

Anyone?

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Still no answers to this from the Ukraine fan bois

Shocking.

jwoodmd said:

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The Green Dragon said:

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Consciousness objector. Go fight your wars. I'll take care of mine while you fight for the federal government and padding the rich's pocketbooks.

I fell for geedubs lies in 2003. **** all that nonsense.

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Hey comrade, it's Conscientious objector

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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Here's the proof you all are arguing semantics.

Would anyone disagree we are escalating our support with more funds and more equipment and more powerful offensive equipment?

Anyone?

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Still no answers to this from the Ukraine fan bois

Shocking.

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Ukraine fan bois to busy listening to Yani and fanning each other with feathers.

To preface, I'm not arguing that it's a good thing to spend this much money. Just that we can. How long did we sustain operations in Iraq and Afghanistan? How much did we spend on those ventures over what period of time? What's the comparative ratio to what we've given Ukraine at this point?

Now, whether or not we should or the resultant impact of sustaining it is an entirely different matter. But, theoretically, sustainable? Yup. We can sustain it if we want to.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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GAC06 said:

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Shoefly! said:

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GAC06 said:

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I guess the other nonsense isolationist arguments fell flat so now we need fear mongering over a draft

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Do you have children of military age? If so get them ready, mine are ready to defend our fence lines in South Texas. That's as far as they go for this ignorant piece of work your side has installed.

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No but I'm currently serving. Neat that so many are fans of draft dodging like our current and last president. Not really important though because the idea of having a draft to fight Russia is nonsense.

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Exactly. I guess all of the people on here scared of a future imaginary draft that will never happen can take comfort in knowing that they can probably just follow their hero's lead and fake having bone spurs.

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Nothing to do with Trump, or even Biden. Has to do with watching family and friends go to ****hole countries for the past 30 years and get shot up, under both R and D administrations, when there was not even a remote threat to the defense of the US. But there was alot of money involved. **** that noise.

I obviously cannot force my son not to join the military, but will definitely be discouraging it. If there were ever a draft for some **** war in some **** country that has little to nothing to do with the safety of the US, and he did not want to go, I would support him refusing. Why do you think all the rich and powerful kids never have to go fight in these wars? Because their parents, the ones sending all the young men and women into these ****holes, know it isn't worth risking THEIR kids' lives for.

Teslag said:

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Russia can't do **** about it

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We were that cocky about Japan too.

We told ourselves that they couldn't do **** because they needed our oil and steel.

We also told ourselves Germany couldn't do anything about lend lease because they were too busy digging trenches.

That worked out great didn't it.

That kind of cocky thinking and attitude gets u into trouble.

The superiority of a country's military alone cannot curtail escalation if that same country continues to act with impunity.

Escalations happen because one power is a cocky ass and the other power gets tired of that **** and decides the consequences even if that means losing are worth it.

^^alot of research and history supports this^^

Furthermore when the weaker power gets sick of being pushed around it often employs a mutual destruction strategy- "we would rather both of us lose than allow u to win".

You really wanna go there with a nuclear power?

Once again- not saying Putin is good. I am saying the US screwed the pooch in regards to foreign policy here and we are sending **** tons of arms mostly unchecked to a corrupt nation simply because back in 2014 we installed a US friendly corrupt government over there to overthrow the Russian corrupt government and our politicians want to maintain their money laundering playground

That is not a good reason to provoke a war.

They have received enough arms money and training. It's time for them to win or lose on their own merits

Hey now! Beau fought for Martian independence and died at the battle of Olympus Mons! They don't all seek favorable treatment!

The loudest pro Ukraine vets on here are an Air Force fobit and a reserve medical warrant officer who leads by withholding pay.

So, things would have worked out… better for us in the long run… if we'd not provided any assistance during WW2? Not equating these two situations, btw. Just curious as to your take on that since you brought it up.

Rossticus said:

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So, things would have worked better out… better for us in the long run… if we'd not provided any assistance during WW2? Not equating these two situations, btw. Just curious as to your take on that since you brought it up.

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Didn't say that. However.

I said that our approach to Japan was ****ty because we thought we had them over a barrel. That led to Pearl Harbor which forced a piss poor strategy in the war.

The optimal situation would have been for us to leave Japan the hell alone- go kick Adolf's ass and finish off Stalin then see about handling Japan.

Our approach made it so that we had to finish Europe too quickly and ally with arguably the most evil man ever to live (Stalin) and cede eastern europe to him allowing the deaths of even more people than were killed in the holocaust, and then proceeded to the cold war, and the spread of communism which killed 100 million more.

American cockiness got us sucked into Europe in ww1 and our strength allowed england to force a ****ty treaty which ****ed of germany and allowed the nazi's to come to power.

Once again American cockiness.

We just like to sling our dick around and dare people to punch us in the face. Then when they do we get all offended like we weren't asking for it .

That's what purpose foreign policy is here.

To the point of OP, though, the Progressives continue to …progress the war commitment. Really shocking, huh?

I don't care about whether Biden* qualified the Abrams comment with US crew or not. Personally, I think they were mostly sent to trigger the Leopards and will sit unused in the western part of the country. But If the Ukrainians want to field them they need training and advising. That pretty much requires Army tankers in proximity to implementation.

Also, there's virtually no way we don't have Green Berets and JTACs in country at this point. It echoes of Vietnam. And since the proxy-war-proponents seem to dance over every "that'll never happen" or "don't worry about that" it doesn't seem that crazy to set clear boundaries before lines are flirted with.

Nm

Artorias said:

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Unless there is a war where the US homeland is being directly attacked/invaded, my son will never/ever be drafted. Not sending my son to die in some other **** country, no matter how "critical" or "strategic" or "freedom-needing" the other country is.

Come at me.

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Out to be a law, that if the draft is used to send regular folks kids to the front lines in wars that the country is not directly attacked/invaded, that the politicians that voted for the war that requires it, in fact requires the politician's kids at the front of the line. No draft number required. They go first, to boot camp and then direct combat.

That'll F-up the $$ gravy train for sure.

MAGA already planning their draft dodging. Why am I not surprised?

JTACs for all the CAS going on?

shiftyandquick said:

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MAGA already planning their draft dodging. Why am I not surprised?

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Not going to lay down my life or offer up sons for a corrupt kid diddler's money laundering scheme. But you feel free and tell yourself that ur being virtuous for it.

They land on our shores that would be different.

Rossticus said:

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So, things would have worked out… better for us in the long run… if we'd not provided any assistance during WW2? Not equating these two situations, btw. Just curious as to your take on that since you brought it up.

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Americans died in two world wars and how does Europe return our factor? They've ceded their autonomy to a EU where Germany's control continues to expand.

Sure - Nazis sucked… but I do wonder whether Germany winning WW1 wouldn't have worked out better…

shiftyandquick said:

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MAGA already planning their draft dodging. Why am I not surprised?

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Im a vet. You sound like a d bag for suggesting that.

Did you serve?

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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MAGA already planning their draft dodging. Why am I not surprised?

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Im a vet. You sound like a d bag for suggesting that.

Did you serve?

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You already know that answer.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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To the point of OP, though, the Progressives continue to …progress the war commitment. Really shocking, huh?

I don't care about whether Biden* qualified the Abrams comment with US crew or not. Personally, I think they were mostly sent to trigger the Leopards and will sit unused in the western part of the country. But If the Ukrainians want to field them they need training and advising. That pretty much requires Army tankers in proximity to implementation.

Also, there's virtually no way we don't have Green Berets and JTACs in country at this point. It echoes of Vietnam. And since the proxy-war-proponents seem to dance over every "that'll never happen" or "don't worry about that" it doesn't seem that crazy to set clear boundaries before lines are flirted with.

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A community who is built to attach to other units as a force multiplier who can identify and prosecute targets across air, sea, and artillery fires? Yeah. I'd be completely unsurprised if folks holding JTAC certs were helping to call in rockets.

With drones it's not hard to call in artillery, and the Ukrainians know what they're doing. It would be colossally stupid as well as unnecessary to have US personnel anywhere near combat.

GAC06 said:

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With drones it's not hard to call in artillery, and the Ukrainians know what they're doing. It would be colossally stupid as well as unnecessary to have US personnel anywhere near combat.

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Quoting this for later.

GAC06 said:

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With drones it's not hard to call in artillery, and the Ukrainians know what they're doing. It would be colossally stupid as well as unnecessary to have US personnel anywhere near combat.

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[checks notes]

[sees 4000 members of 101st Airborne assembled in Romania]

Get Off My Lawn said:

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The loudest pro Ukraine vets on here are an Air Force fobit and a reserve medical warrant officer who leads by withholding pay.

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GAC is a marine corps pilot. I started my career as a medic. You know what happens when you assume…

Teslag said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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Well joe and his woke team destroyed the greatest volunteer army of all times with their non sense. They will have to send all their lebesians and tranknees to go fight and die. This generation of young men are not going to die for the elite's money laundering scheme.

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I'm fairly certain that an army of woke LGBT soldiers could easily defeat Russia after what we've seen out of them the past year.

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They'll just recruit the Taliban.

MouthBQ98 said:

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NOBODY wants to send forces to Ukraine. It's not happening, as long as Russia doesn't go full stupid and they stay in their lane and don't attack a NATO member.

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Biden knows that to send US troops into Ukraine without provocation will end his Presidency. Maybe it is his plan to push Putin into doing just that.

Just like FDR wanted to fight Hitler, the Japanese, along with Hitler declaring war on the US, obliged.

That is why three fourths of everything we produced went to Europe to defeat Hitler.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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GAC06 said:

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With drones it's not hard to call in artillery, and the Ukrainians know what they're doing. It would be colossally stupid as well as unnecessary to have US personnel anywhere near combat.

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[checks notes]

[sees 4000 members of 101st Airborne assembled in Romania]

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Does your definition of "near combat" include being hundreds of miles from it?

Not to mention we've had troops in Romania for a while now. I spent a week there doing a site assessment for a CSH in 2019.

GAC06 said:

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With drones it's not hard to call in artillery, and the Ukrainians know what they're doing. It would be colossally stupid as well as unnecessary to have US personnel anywhere near combat.

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And this admin wouldn't do anything colossally stupid, right? Right?

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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GAC06 said:

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With drones it's not hard to call in artillery, and the Ukrainians know what they're doing. It would be colossally stupid as well as unnecessary to have US personnel anywhere near combat.

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[checks notes]

[sees 4000 members of 101st Airborne assembled in Romania]

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Troops of all kinds all over nato territory. If Russia purposely colors outside the lines, within nato territory, it wouldn't matter in which nato country they're stationed. Isht would hit the fan.

So, the only way US troops in Romania are a risk is if Russia… attacks a nato country.