B-17 Involved in a Midair Collision at Dallas Airshow

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Rapier108
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2:02p, 11/12/22


I suspect we'll get tons of the usual calls to ground all vintage aircraft even though it is highly unlikely to have had anything to do with the age of the B-17.


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BQ_90
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2:05p, 11/12/22
AG
Looks like smaller plane flew into B17
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LMCane
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2:06p, 11/12/22
awful on so many levels- there is the 8th Air Force Museum outside Savannah that was refurbishing a B-17 for decades.

there are so few of them left remaining, this is probably the final nail in them ever flying again. plus the folks in the aircraft who were killed.

just awful
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black_ice
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In reply to BQ_90 • 2:06p, 11/12/22
BQ_90 said:
Looks like smaller plane flew into B17


Correct
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Funky Winkerbean
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2:06p, 11/12/22
AG
That's terrible.
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LMCane
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In reply to BQ_90 • 2:08p, 11/12/22
BQ_90 said:
Looks like smaller plane flew into B17
I believe that is a P-51 Mustang

I have never seen a maneuver like that where a Mustang will cross over and above a Flying Fortress. they are usually in trail behind and to the side of the bombers for just this reason.
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Rapier108
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In reply to BQ_90 • 2:09p, 11/12/22
BQ_90 said:
Looks like smaller plane flew into B17
Yep, so the only question will be why, and I can only think of 4 reason why.

Intentional
Flight control failure
Pilot disorientation/medical emergency
Pilot not paying attention
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FTAG 2000
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2:11p, 11/12/22
AG
looks like the Mustang pilot wasn't aware of surroundings.

sick to my stomach watching that.
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to Rapier108 • 2:11p, 11/12/22
AG
Rapier108 said:
BQ_90 said:
Looks like smaller plane flew into B17
Yep, so the only question will be why, and I can only think of 4 reason why.

Intentional
Flight control failure
Pilot disorientation/medical emergency
Pilot not paying attention


the CAF pilots are all buddies and very close knit. think you can rule out that first one.
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Rapier108
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 2:12p, 11/12/22
FTAG 2000 said:
Rapier108 said:
BQ_90 said:
Looks like smaller plane flew into B17
Yep, so the only question will be why, and I can only think of 4 reason why.

Intentional
Flight control failure
Pilot disorientation/medical emergency
Pilot not paying attention


the CAF pilots are all buddies and very close knit. think you can rule out that first one.
I would put that one as the least likely, but not at zero.
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Ag87H2O
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2:13p, 11/12/22
AG
The smaller plane hit the B-17 dead in the middle and chopped it in half. The pilot could not have hit it any more dead center if they tried. The crew of the B-17 had 3 seconds of terror before hitting the ground. Incredibly tragic on so many levels.
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Admiral_ZAX
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2:15p, 11/12/22
AG
Couldn't tell from the videos but the b17 based on conroe was at the show.
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BQ78
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2:18p, 11/12/22
AG
I hope they didn't have a plane load of visitors on the 17
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fire09
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2:19p, 11/12/22
AG
It's really hard to tell from that angle, but my guess is the mustang pilot likely never saw the 17 until it was too late to correct.

He appeared to be in a higher angle turn, meaning b17 would be obstructed by nose and wings.

Tragic.
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FTAG 2000
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2:19p, 11/12/22
AG


Another angle.
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CyclingAg82
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2:25p, 11/12/22
AG
God bless them.

Dang.
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The Kraken
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In reply to fire09 • 2:25p, 11/12/22
AG
fire09 said:
It's really hard to tell from that angle, but my guess is the mustang pilot likely never saw the 17 until it was too late to correct.

He appeared to be in a higher angle turn, meaning b17 would be obstructed by nose and wings.

Tragic.
Agreed.
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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AlaskanAg99
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2:27p, 11/12/22
AG
Wow, the Mustang was in a turn and simply couldn't see the B17 from those multiple angle shots.

There will be a lot of finger pointing on why those flight oaths were set up that way.

Absolutely tragic.
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Whitetail
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2:27p, 11/12/22
AG
It doesn't look like either planes could have seen each other from that angle.
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FTAG 2000
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2:35p, 11/12/22
AG
little plane was p-63, not p-51. very limited visibility cockpit.

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YouBet
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2:35p, 11/12/22
AG
Terrible. Thoughts and prayers for all.
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The Fife
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2:36p, 11/12/22
Unless they're all painted the same, that's the one I saw at Charleston
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Eliminatus
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In reply to YouBet • 2:37p, 11/12/22
AG
YouBet said:
Terrible. Thoughts and prayers for all.


Indeed. I am just not seeing how anyone survived in that bomber though.
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Teslag
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In reply to Eliminatus • 2:39p, 11/12/22
AG
The only saving grace they may have had was that the wing and fuel tanks separated from the fuselage. Still unlikely they survived but they didn't go in the fireball.
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Ag with kids
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2:42p, 11/12/22
AG
Having lost 2 pilot friends in a flight test crash when I was at Bell, I am fighting back tears right now...
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nortex97
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 2:42p, 11/12/22
AG
Dang, I heard those are really 'weird' which is one reason they weren't picked/mass produced (and came late). Mid engine or some such.
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Gigem_94
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2:45p, 11/12/22
AG
Prayers for those pilots and their families.
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80sGeorge
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2:46p, 11/12/22
AG
Gotta hope the 17 wasn't full of paying passengers along for the ride. Hopefully they don't do ride alongs during the show portion. T&P for the crew
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Flying Crowbar
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:47p, 11/12/22
AG
Yes, its engine is behind the pilot, which is an unusual configuration for a piston engine aircraft.
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The Kraken
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3:00p, 11/12/22
AG
Any idea which B-17 this was?
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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eric76
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In reply to LMCane • 3:00p, 11/12/22
AG
LMCane said:
awful on so many levels- there is the 8th Air Force Museum outside Savannah that was refurbishing a B-17 for decades.

there are so few of them left remaining, this is probably the final nail in them ever flying again. plus the folks in the aircraft who were killed.

just awful
I don't see why this would stop them from flying again. It isn't like it was an issue with airworthiness.
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bthotugigem05
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3:01p, 11/12/22
AG
So sad at the loss of life.
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The Kraken
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In reply to The Kraken • 3:04p, 11/12/22
AG
New World Ag said:
Any idea which B-17 this was?
Answering my own question, looks like it was the Texas Raiders, based out of Conroe
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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Pinochet
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In reply to LMCane • 3:07p, 11/12/22
LMCane said:
awful on so many levels- there is the 8th Air Force Museum outside Savannah that was refurbishing a B-17 for decades.

there are so few of them left remaining, this is probably the final nail in them ever flying again. plus the folks in the aircraft who were killed.

just awful

This won't keep them from flying. It may force the owner to get rid of the airplane because they can't get insurance (like the Collings Foundation after their B-17 incident), but the warbird community will always find a way to fly those airplanes. That's what they're for - flying. The pilot was part of the Tora group and the Dixie wing of CAF, so I feel for those guys and what they're dealing with right now. They are all top notch aviators and excellent ambassadors of the community.
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JB!98
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3:10p, 11/12/22
AG
I saw this very type of race track formation for the fighters and straight and level run for the bombers at an airshow at Randolph in San Antonio. I believe it was a B-17 that was coming in straight and a corsair was coming around the circuit. Same thing, but the corsair pilot saw the B-17 at the last minute and was able to put a lot of G on the airplane and avoid the collision. By a lot of G, I have never seen a WWII aircraft with vapor coming off the wing and wing root like on that corsair.

Had they collided it would have have rained debris and burning fuel on us. It scared the hell out of me and obviously the corsair pilot. He immediately landed after that. He may have overstressed that beautiful old bird.

Prayers for those that lost their lives. Tragic.
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