https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N7227C

This is just awful. I've been in a B-17 but not on a visitor flight. My Dad was the bombardier in one in WW2.

New World Ag said:

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New World Ag said:

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Any idea which B-17 this was?

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Answering my own question, looks like it was the Texas Raiders, based out of Conroe

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Family bought my dad a nose ride on that plane a fews ago.

New World Ag said:

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Any idea which B-17 this was?

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It was Texas Raiders

Horrible.
RIP

Flying Crowbar said:

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Yes, its engine is behind the pilot, which is an unusual configuration for a piston engine aircraft.

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I am just talking out of my ass here, but I am guessing the plane probably has some unusual high angle of attack/stall characteristics relative to other single engine fighters of the era. It's also just a little windy here today so who knows, maybe a 30-50 mph gust really pushed him more than he expected.

Prayers for the families of all involved.

The P-39 was underpowered and designed as a trainer. It's successor the P-63 came on scene after the P-51 and others had already proven themselves and at the end of the war. One of the big problems is that you can't see if anything abnormal is happening with the engine once you're in the airplane. Engine fires are almost impossible to see from the cockpit. A lot of the King Cobras were sent to other countries to use as trainers and a handful were turned into target drones.

Someone was in the wrong place today. Wind gusts didn't do it. If the pilot got pushed far enough, his bailout was to push the nose down and go under the B-17 (so he could keep him in sight) or pull up to put altitude and lateral space between him and any other plane, and then to rejoin the track after he got it under control. In this case it looks like he couldn't see the -17 until it was too late. The guy flying the P-63 was a very very experienced Tora pilot. He was not new to this type of thing and he was not new to the P-63.

Another angle. pic.twitter.com/AndK0JpHed

— Doge (@IntelDoge) November 12, 2022

In this view you can see the fighter that hit the B-17 was the third in a loose formation. The pilot was likely looking out the left/top of the canopy maintaining sight of the first two fighters and never saw the B-17.

Do you know the name of the P-63 pilot? Friend of mine flies with Tora and has flown the P-63 before, but I believe it's not his usual aircraft. Really hoping he wasn't in either plane.

80sGeorge said:

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Gotta hope the 17 wasn't full of paying passengers along for the ride. Hopefully they don't do ride alongs during the show portion. T&P for the crew

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they do not take passengers on air show flights. insurance carrier does not allow. they do ride alongs leading up to the show but no passengers allowed for the show.

I do but I don't want to share it here. Do you know what aircraft your friend has for Tora?

Per his bio on the Tora site, he normally flies a Kate 310 with them.

GarlandAg2012 said:

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Per his bio on the Tora site, he normally flies a Kate 310 with them.

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Not him but now I'm curious whether you and I know some of the same people.

I'm not really plugged into the CAF/vintage aircraft world. I know him through work.

Man, this just sucks on so many levels. T&P for those involved!

If he's in the Dallas area and he's not an airline pilot, then I have met him a few times.

https://t.co/QQRBHjlAwM

— Nicholas Shanks (@nickshanks_) November 12, 2022

Can see how many would think this is intentional. However, blind spot of P-63 + unlucky B-17 = horrible tragedy.

When these B-17s are doing airshows, what is their normal crew compliment? I'm thinking three?

#BREAKING: New angle of the mid-air collision obtained by @WFAA shows B-17 and other aircraft flying formations at #WingsOverDallas at 1:21p today, when it was hit by a P-63 and fell to the ground over the airfield at Dallas Executive Airport (RBD). pic.twitter.com/6NAS93b3re

— Jason Whitely (@JasonWhitely) November 12, 2022

Usually 2-3, which is why the numbers coming from DFR are concerning.

I think Tora requires pilots to qualify by riding along during a show first. Hopefully there weren't a ton of guys getting qualified in the back of the B-17.

CAF posted on their Instagram that it was a p-63 King Cobra. Both aircraft were out of Houston.

This is just horrifying and heartbreaking on so many levels.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck4DUN1JTbU/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Thank you. I just hope they all died on impact, not in the fire afterwards.

Pinochet said:

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Usually 2-3, which is why the numbers coming from DFR are concerning.

I think Tora requires pilots to qualify by riding along during a show first. Hopefully there weren't a ton of guys getting qualified in the back of the B-17.

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There are a ton of volunteers and donors that ride in these things. I don't know if it is permitted during air show performances but I remember videos of Kyle Field fly-overs from a B29 that had a number of VIP's aboard.

He's in Dallas and not an airline pilot, so that's him.

FAA doesn't allow it during shows.

Oh man. Terrible accident. Very sad for the pilots, crew, and families.

fire09 said:

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It's really hard to tell from that angle, but my guess is the mustang pilot likely never saw the 17 until it was too late to correct.

He appeared to be in a higher angle turn, meaning b17 would be obstructed by nose and wings.

Tragic.

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This is it - b17 must have been below the nose and not visible. Choreography supposed to account for blind spots but its not easy. Damned sad on every level.

fc2112 said:

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Can see how many would think this is intentional. However, blind spot of P-63 + unlucky B-17 = horrible tragedy.

When these B-17s are doing airshows, what is their normal crew compliment? I'm thinking three?

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normal air show crew is five on board. no passengers allowed.

Source: My brother is an air show boss out eastern US. Knows everyone that was on both planes today. he's pretty shook up.

Ag_B_10 said:

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This is so sad and tragic. Not just the loss of life but the treasure those planes are.

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Only 7 or 8 airworthy examples remaining but there are a handful under restoration that could potentially fly again some day.