Faustus said:

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Silian Rail said:

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Faustus said:

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Silian Rail said:

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lobopride said:

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Destroying Russia allows us to focus on China which is much more of an actual threat. Blood is being spilled to destroy Russia and it's not American blood. This war is a 100 times better investment than either Afghanistan or Iraq were.

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In what world is Russia ever a threat to us? You guys are laughing at how Ukraine is beating the **** out of Russia with our c-team equipment, while at the same time saying we need to take them out so they're not a threat to us?

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Let's come at this from another angle.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/pope-there-no-justification-sacrilegious-war-ukraine

Quote:

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Pope Francis again condemned Russia's war on Ukraine, calling it a "senseless massacre" and "sacrilegious" attack on human life.
. . .

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We are aiding Ukraine defend itself against Russia's sacrilegious attack.
The Pope has said providing aid to Ukraine is morally acceptable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/15/world/europe/pope-francis-ukraine.html

For as much as you tout the Church line, how is it that this one is convenient to ignore? The US is doing the lord's work here fighting against Russia's senseless and sacrilegious attack.

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Morally acceptable is totally different than a moral mandate. It just means it isn't a sin to do it. The Pope is always going to come out against aggressive war, this is no surprise. This does not mean that I have to immediately go join the Ukrainian army to fight Russia nor does it mean we have to donate money and arms to Ukraine, it just means if we do, it is not a sin.

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Fair enough. It just seems like you'd rooting for the side that's fighting against sacrilege, whereas you've come out and said that you identified more with Russia and against the Ukrainian degeneracy.

However I appreciate the response and won't harp on it again.

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Bout to break everyone's brain with a 🇺🇦 in their Twitter handle...

The first image shows the results of the 2004 election in Ukraine by region. The second shows Yanukovych vs. Yushchenko a decade later.

The referendum margins aren't very different.

Why?

The third image. pic.twitter.com/A0QnEufilF

— Rich Baris "The People's Pundit" (@Peoples_Pundit) September 30, 2022

Good thread from Baris, easily the best right wing pollster there is on the Russian breakaway situation

And that's why Russia started out by invading Kiev right?

Attacking the capital is a pretty sound strategy if you're trying to force a quick capitulation. That's what Putin did in Georgia, practically same playbook. You'll notice Georgia isn't part of Russia presently my friend

Ags4DaWin said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Our resident Russophiles will be deeply saddened. They so badly want to see Putin win.

And for the record, I don't think we should be spending this money at all, but I sure as hell don't think we should not spend it solely because of some completely ****ed up view that Russia and Putin are good guys.

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I don't want this money spent because I know damn near half of it is going to be grifted and that is why we are sending it.

IDGAF about Russia taking over Ukraine. That is Europe's business. This isn't like the cold War where communism was spreading like wild fire and we ate trying to save the world by stemming the tide.

Would love to see putin lose but it's not worth the money we are throwing at it especially when most of it will not get to the recipient.

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He thinks it is !

The ethnic map explains none of this. All handwaving.

What does is the strategic choke point - south of Ukraine, and in Georgia. Putin does not want Ukraine, he needs to go through it to get what he needs.

I want Russia to lose but it's baffling to me how conservatives are totally fine spending whatever it takes in Ukraine with zero care about oversight or how it gets spent. Y'all are just giddy about sticking it to Russia because of history.

Why arent you asking why we are approving another $12B when we we've only spent something like 30% of the original $54B?

Why are we approving another $12B when we don't need to??? Just keep ignoring that though, I guess....because....Putin. This is a money laundering scheme clear as day.

If we end up in a war with Russia, the draft will be reinstated. Watch the run to Mexico by draft age men will be enlightening for some of the war hawks.

Worth every dollar

Any of y'all catch any of Putin's speech. It reminds me of before he Invaded Ukraine. I believe he is very close to using nuclear bombs especially given the recent deterioration of his military position in eastern Ukraine.


There is zero deescalation being attempted by anyone. We are sending more money and weapons. Russia is annexing parts of Ukraine. Ukraine is seeking immediate acceptance into NATO. Russia is saying we were first to use nuclear weapons. Etc etc.

I'd rather fight them over there than over here. American blood is more expensive than American bullets.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I believe he is very close to using nuclear bombs

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You think the military will comply? I could see that being the spark to ignite a coup. Maybe not a great chance, but a chance nonetheless.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Any of y'all catch any of Putin's speech. It reminds me of before he Invaded Ukraine. I believe he is very close to using nuclear bombs especially given the recent deterioration of his military position in eastern Ukraine.


There is zero deescalation being attempted by anyone. We are sending more money and weapons. Russia is annexing parts of Ukraine. Ukraine is seeking immediate acceptance into NATO. Russia is saying we were first to use nuclear weapons. Etc etc.

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Good. Russia's M.O. is to escalate to de-escalate. Beat them at their own game of chicken. They know nukes are suicide and will get them nothing. It is beyond not getting gains--it is an actual loss of everything for them.

Submitting to Russia's threats invites more of this, not less.

Marvin said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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I believe he is very close to using nuclear bombs

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You think the military will comply? I could see that being the spark to ignite a coup. Maybe not a great chance, but a chance nonetheless.

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I think the moves being made internally, putins statements and their military losses speak volumes of how close we are.

No way to judge the mindset of the Russians in that role. Putin is claiming Russia is fighting for its very existence. We can debate the validity or not of that statement but what do they actually believe is the real question. No one likely knows. But Putin is definitely putting it out there they are prepared to use them abs there doesn't seem to be anyone anywhere saying woah, let's talk about this. It's just more money, more guns, more bombs etc etc.

Waffledynamics said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Any of y'all catch any of Putin's speech. It reminds me of before he Invaded Ukraine. I believe he is very close to using nuclear bombs especially given the recent deterioration of his military position in eastern Ukraine.


There is zero deescalation being attempted by anyone. We are sending more money and weapons. Russia is annexing parts of Ukraine. Ukraine is seeking immediate acceptance into NATO. Russia is saying we were first to use nuclear weapons. Etc etc.

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Good. Russia's M.O. is to escalate to de-escalate. Beat them at their own game of chicken. They know nukes are suicide and will get them nothing. It is beyond not getting gains--it is an actual loss of everything for them.

Submitting to Russia's threats invites more of this, not less.

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The question is if Russia drops them on Ukraine do we Nuke Russia? What price are we willing to pay for that exchange? How many millions of Americans and how many cities? Is Biden going to order nuclear retaliation? Putin may gamble that we won't retaliate. It's a fair a question. Really needs to be asked now. Are willing to sacrifice millions of Americans and coastal cities to retaliate against tactical nukes dropped in Ukraine?

No one took him serious when he said he was going to invade Ukraine. No one is taking him serious again.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Any of y'all catch any of Putin's speech. It reminds me of before he Invaded Ukraine. I believe he is very close to using nuclear bombs especially given the recent deterioration of his military position in eastern Ukraine.


There is zero deescalation being attempted by anyone. We are sending more money and weapons. Russia is annexing parts of Ukraine. Ukraine is seeking immediate acceptance into NATO. Russia is saying we were first to use nuclear weapons. Etc etc.

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Good. Russia's M.O. is to escalate to de-escalate. Beat them at their own game of chicken. They know nukes are suicide and will get them nothing. It is beyond not getting gains--it is an actual loss of everything for them.

Submitting to Russia's threats invites more of this, not less.

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The question is if Russia drops them on Ukraine do we Nuke Russia? What price are we willing to pay for that exchange? How many millions of Americans and how many cities? Is Biden going to order nuclear retaliation? Putin may gamble that we won't retaliate. It's a fair a question. Really needs to be asked now. Are willing to sacrifice millions of Americans and coastal cities to retaliate against tactical nukes dropped in Ukraine?

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I may be mistaken, but I thought there was a report that NATO would respond conventionally. May not matter, as Putin might be BSC enough to lob nukes everywhere if attacked in any way, but I don't see nuking Russia as a response to him sending one downrange to Ukraine.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Any of y'all catch any of Putin's speech. It reminds me of before he Invaded Ukraine. I believe he is very close to using nuclear bombs especially given the recent deterioration of his military position in eastern Ukraine.


There is zero deescalation being attempted by anyone. We are sending more money and weapons. Russia is annexing parts of Ukraine. Ukraine is seeking immediate acceptance into NATO. Russia is saying we were first to use nuclear weapons. Etc etc.

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Good. Russia's M.O. is to escalate to de-escalate. Beat them at their own game of chicken. They know nukes are suicide and will get them nothing. It is beyond not getting gains--it is an actual loss of everything for them.

Submitting to Russia's threats invites more of this, not less.

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The question is if Russia drops them on Ukraine do we Nuke Russia? What price are we Putin and Russia willing to pay for that exchange? How many millions of Americans Russians and how many cities? Is Biden going to order nuclear retaliation? Putin may gamble that we won't retaliate. It's a fair a question. Really needs to be asked now. Are Russians willing to sacrifice millions of Americans Russians and coastal cities to retaliate against deploy tactical nukes dropped in Ukraine?

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FIFY

He said today they view what's going on as an existential threat to Russia and they are prepared to use them to defend Russia.

They are also on the verge of a big military defeat right now. They have 1,000s of Russians recently surrounded

Yukon Cornelius said:

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He said today they view what's going on as an existential threat to Russia and they are prepared to use them to defend Russia.

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The proper response is "**** around & find out."

Again, Russia knows that the moment they do such a thing, they cease to exist. Putin knows this. Everyone knows this.

The alternative is that you have an end game that results in the entire world being subservient to Russia, China, and/or any other nuclear state that wishes to engage in megalomania. Russia is terrified of nukes. They are not unafraid. They know what will happen. Twist their arm until it breaks.

We are stupid financing this war. How do you know the money isn't going into some ones pocket. What is NATO financing?

Yukon Cornelius said:

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There is zero deescalation being attempted by anyone. We are sending more money and weapons. Russia is annexing parts of Ukraine. Ukraine is seeking immediate acceptance into NATO. Russia is saying we were first to use nuclear weapons. Etc etc.

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"Why aren't you deescalating?" called the maniac, breaking his hands as he repeatedly punched the face that wouldn't cave in.

Marvin said:

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I'd rather fight them over there than over here. American blood is more expensive than American bullets.

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How would we ever fight them over here? They border Ukraine and they're having a hell of a time. How do they get to the USA? You think they're going to attack across the Bering?

Silian Rail said:

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Marvin said:

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I'd rather fight them over there than over here. American blood is more expensive than American bullets.

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How would we ever fight them over here? They border Ukraine and they're having a hell of a time. How do they get to the USA? You think they're going to attack across the Bering?

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It referenced a former era, but it's still applicable.

AggDawg said:

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Worth every dollar

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You are ok just spending money on something with zero oversight and we have no idea how it's being spent.

Why do they need $12B more when we haven't spent much of the original money?

All just to get our rocks off against our 1980s adversary who is wholly irrelevant to us in 2022.

YouBet said:

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AggDawg said:

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Worth every dollar

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You are ok just spending money on something with zero oversight and we have no idea how it's being spent.

Why do they need $12B more when we haven't spent much of the original money?

All just to get our rocks off against our 1980s adversary who is wholly irrelevant to us in 2022.

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60k dead Russian troops in 10 months, changing mood in China, no US forces involved in combat, finding a good use of equipment that was nearing the end of its life spand..... most of the aid has been in equipment.

AggDawg said:

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YouBet said:

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AggDawg said:

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Worth every dollar

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You are ok just spending money on something with zero oversight and we have no idea how it's being spent.

Why do they need $12B more when we haven't spent much of the original money?

All just to get our rocks off against our 1980s adversary who is wholly irrelevant to us in 2022.

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60k dead Russian troops in 10 months, changing mood in China, no US forces involved in combat, finding a good use of equipment that was nearing the end of its life spand..... most of the aid has been in equipment.

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That's great and all...truly...but it doesn't excuse ongoing allocation of our tax dollars to a hugely corrupt country with little independent oversight while not spending money from previous allocations. Let's spend what's already allocated instead of continued allocations.

If this was anything other than poking Russia we would all be pissed off that our government is just blindly spending tax dollars. We have little insight on how this money is being spent. Anything that isn't hardware might as well be set on fire.

wanting fiscal oversight isn't wrong, it just rings hollow when most of those pounding the table about it now were silent for decades of much higher spending in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'm old enough to remember when spending a few billion to secure our border was a huge waste of money and irresponsible. I guess sending 10 times more money halfway around the world so it can be laundered back to our elites is a wise use of taxpayer dollars.

Why would our "elites" need to send money to Ukraine to get a cut?

YouBet said:

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AggDawg said:

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YouBet said:

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AggDawg said:

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Worth every dollar

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You are ok just spending money on something with zero oversight and we have no idea how it's being spent.

Why do they need $12B more when we haven't spent much of the original money?

All just to get our rocks off against our 1980s adversary who is wholly irrelevant to us in 2022.

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60k dead Russian troops in 10 months, changing mood in China, no US forces involved in combat, finding a good use of equipment that was nearing the end of its life spand..... most of the aid has been in equipment.

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That's great and all...truly...but it doesn't excuse ongoing allocation of our tax dollars to a hugely corrupt country with little independent oversight while not spending money from previous allocations. Let's spend what's already allocated instead of continued allocations.

If this was anything other than poking Russia we would all be pissed off that our government is just blindly spending tax dollars. We have little insight on how this money is being spent. Anything that isn't hardware might as well be set on fire.

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Do you know if there is no oversight? Truly? You have mentioned it several times and curious if you have a source for that.

I don't care if people are against this. Perfectly fine in fact. I easily see the concern and I can sympathize with it. I also still think it is worth for several reasons. I just despise how it is portrayed by the MSM as pallets of cash to mafiosos. That is such an outright lie that it is disgusting. That is not how foreign aid works. At all. And people who WANT to be against it refuse to understand all the facts. It is textbook bias confirmation and parts of the MSM is more than willing to supply it.

GAC06 said:

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Why would our "elites" need to send money to Ukraine to get a cut?

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Because that's how foreign aid works… it's just another easy opportunity.

Zobel said:

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wanting fiscal oversight isn't wrong, it just rings hollow when most of those pounding the table about it now were silent for decades of much higher spending in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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Two wrongs don't make a right and hindsight is 20/20. Many of us acknowledge the waste of resources the ME was with 20 years of age and wisdom behind us.

I doubt I was aware back then (if this is even true - I don't know) if the government actively stripped oversight from watching that money like they did with the Ukraine allocations. Alot of this Ukraine funding is money laundering which is quite obvious. We already know the Democrats had funny business in Ukraine before the war and now they have $66B of our tax dollars to cover more of it.

That's my only point here. If we are going to give them money while they actively destroy our country here, I would simply like to have someone independent keeping tabs on it. But I realize that is insane to ask for when we have a government who hates its own citizens and would purge half of us if they could.

Uh huh. "That's how it works". Compelling

The only thing that seems obvious to me is that this has a lot to do with the democrats for you.

Zobel said:

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The only thing that seems obvious to me is that this has a lot to do with the democrats for you.

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It's about fiscal responsibility of someone else's money. In this case the US government is spending our money. The US government doesn't have money. Every dime "spent" is either taken from Americans or It's debt.