Illegal drop boxes also impacted the votes.

TomFoolery said:

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Just dropping in a reminder that the real debate on the 2020 election should be the election clause and whether or not state legislatures have the sole authority to determine their elections... and the Supreme Court absolutely punted on making a decision which led to the majority of election debates we have to deal with now...


It all could have been so much simpler...

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THIS.

And something as silly as standing was not sufficient excuse to ignore the wishes of half the states of the Union. That is why it is right to say the "case was never heard" --- it is a myth to say that the root of the cheating of 2020 was ever addressed. If the changes were illegal, then so was the results they enabled. And this is at the heart of the `swing states' distortions centered around PA, MI, WI in particular.

Old McDonald said:

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1. mail in ballots take longer to count and tabulate than in-person ballots
2. urban districts with high populations take longer to count and report mail ballots because of the sheer volume relative to other districts
3. due to partisan messaging, mail in ballots were disproportionately cast by people voting for democrats, and in-person disproportionately for republicans
4. republican state legislatures in MI and WI made it so mail ballots could not be counted until election day, thereby artificially making it so mail ballot tabulations would lag behind day-of in person ballots (and creating the impression of an early trump lead)
5. on election day, red districts with majority in-person and comparatively few ballots generally get reported faster. large urban districts with lots of mail ballots cast for democrats take longer to tabulate, then when they get reported it looks like a big blue jump because 1) there are a lot of votes in these districts and 2) they break overwhelmingly for dems

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6. they are tabulated at 4am wen the counting locations are closed.

Old McDonald said:

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cevans_40 said:

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100% for a specific candidate.


Totally plausible

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citation needed

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It is literally on the graph above you. blip for blue and none for red. How?

Ohio had the mail in ballots received before Election Day ready to count. Biden jumped out to an 8 point lead. He lost by 8 points when Election Day ballots were counted.

Old McDonald said:

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cevans_40 said:

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100% for a specific candidate.


Totally plausible

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citation needed

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It is not quite 100%, that would be too obvious. It is 96%, which just so happened to be enough votes to give Biden a small lead... in the middle of the night... in critical swing states...

FriscoKid said:

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Election laws were illegally changed with regards to absentee ballots in a number of states. The courts should have ruled on this before the election. This is not in dispute.

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Laws only matter when you use them to bring down Trump.

No one is above the law, right libs?

Prove me wrong.

AggieCo2023 said:

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1. If the Democratic Party is so powerful and rife with corruption to the point they were able to "create" 81 million votes.....

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Honest question. Do some of you actually believe this is the issue? That people are under the impression that the Dems falsified 81mm votes in total? This question demonstrates a lack of understanding, of our election process.

He didnt need 81 million votes. He needed more votes than Trump, in very specific counties.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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1. mail in ballots take longer to count and tabulate than in-person ballots
2. urban districts with high populations take longer to count and report mail ballots because of the sheer volume relative to other districts
3. due to partisan messaging, mail in ballots were disproportionately cast by people voting for democrats, and in-person disproportionately for republicans
4. republican state legislatures in MI and WI made it so mail ballots could not be counted until election day, thereby artificially making it so mail ballot tabulations would lag behind day-of in person ballots (and creating the impression of an early trump lead)
5. on election day, red districts with majority in-person and comparatively few ballots generally get reported faster. large urban districts with lots of mail ballots cast for democrats take longer to tabulate, then when they get reported it looks like a big blue jump because 1) there are a lot of votes in these districts and 2) they break overwhelmingly for dems

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6. they are tabulated at 4am wen the counting locations are closed.

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...after all the election officials were kicked out, boarded up windows, etc.


Thing is, if everything was done above board, no one is questioning the results. As is, it's reasonable to understand why there are raised eyebrows.

Do you have a link to a great article that highlights where vote counters and poll watchers were kicked out prior to votes being tabulated/reported? The most highlighted Detroit case was covering windows, but as far as I understand the Republican poll watchers already inside we're not kicked out.

AggieCo2023 said:

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I know most of you strongly disagree with me but I'm actually curious and wanted y'all's opinion.

1. If the Democratic Party is so powerful and rife with corruption to the point they were able to "create" 81 million votes, why do they only use this power on selective occasions. Why did they elect to lose house seats in 2020, keep a tie in the senate, and lose most state wide elections such as Governors. If they're able to defraud their way to victory with ease why not do it more often?

2. I also hear many people on here complain on how all the institutions are overrun with liberals from the schools to the colleges to Big Business to the government. Y'all say the highly populated cities are packed with ignorant liberals. My question is if you believe there are so many liberals in every position of power and in the major cities why would it be a surprise that Democrats get a lot of votes for the Presidency?

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1. See, in a national election that is close (as all have been, since 2000), fraud in a few key places can swing the outcome. A couple counties in AZ-Ga-WI-MI-PA are more than capable of that. No one thinks Biden didn't get any of the 81 million votes, but no one has really explained how the claims in 2000 mules couldn't have significantly impacted the outcome either. Maybe you can explain it to me?

2. Do you not think big businesses like Disney, Apple, Alphabet, GM, or Caterpillar (to pick a few different industries) have been run/rife with leftist leadership for a while? Do you think big American cities are not 'liberal' in voting patterns (such as Baltimore, Atlanta, Houston, LA, NYC)? What kind of civic policies/historical knowledge do you think the body politic in those cities supports?

3. Do you really think Joe Biden got that much more african American voter turnout and support than Obama did? Why?

4. Do you regret voting for Joe Biden?

Seriously? Google it. I was not under the impression anyone questioned this. It was a major issue, which was discussed ad nauseum.

There were bills filed to prevent removal of poll officials, or counting votes without proper officials present because of what happened. Partly because groups on the right were threatening to do it in the next election to Dem poll officials.

There were also ballots without official seals counted, etc.

Tweets like this started the issue at the time:

MORE Bad things happening in Philly. Dem election officials have avoided transparency & accountability at every step. NOW they’re keeping our poll watchers so far from the counting tables there’s NO WAY to ACTUALLY observe. What are they hiding?? THIS MUST STOP!!! pic.twitter.com/r1YlkZokAa

— Mike Roman (@mikeroman) November 3, 2020

It was the targeted harvesting, and the CoVID based voting changes and vast amounts of NGO "voting support" funding that facilitated it. Sometimes it was legal but unethical. Other times it was probably flat out illegal but of course very difficult to prevent or police.

You could see it coming but Republicans were too lazy and overconfident to watch ballot drop offs in person in key districts.

Old McDonald said:

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the extent to which people believe 2020 was "stolen" varies from person to person

some believe the dems took advantage of covid to illegitimately change voting laws in favor of dems (arguably true)

some believe covid was specifically created and maliciously released to accomplish that (looney bin conspiracy)

some believe the dems specifically targeted high population areas in swing states to manufacture votes to tip the scales (little to no evidence for this but i suppose i can understand how they arrive at that)

some believe the dems manufactured millions of fake votes without getting caught (lol)

it's not one size fits all

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Basically this.

No one thinks democrats created 81 million votes. For one, tens of millions of voters would have voted for them anyway. For two, the presidential election is decided by the electoral college, which means they would only need to tip a handful of races to win overall. To win Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc, and win the EC, all that would need to happen is manufacturing a few hundred thousand votes across those states. Up to 1-2 million would be all that would be necessary. Now, I don't know if that happened. That seems like an incredible endeavor to undertake without getting caught. I won't rule it out entirely, but I also don't by into the idea.

There was certainly a lot of chicanery in how elections were run in key states, though. The extension of mail in ballots and voting deadlines, vote harvesting by outside organizations, the lack of a chain of custody for tens of millions of votes, the lack of any kind of verification of votes, the barring of outside observers from the tabulation process, and the involvement of private organizations in funding and setting up voting sites and processes certainly calls the entire election into question. Plenty of rules were bent or broken with no repercussions after the fact. I don't buy that democrats fabricated votes, per se, but I do think they increased their counts by focussing on getting ballots to heavily dem areas and collecting and turning in those votes. They may not have created them from whole cloth, but carrying them to the finish line is definitely within the realm of possibility. I can't agree that the election in many states was conducted with any kind of integrity, and I think there was plenty of room for tampering. Also, it seemed like any challenges were dismissed on procedural grounds and not their merits. There were also very tight timelines for challenges, and it seemed like the entire process was rushed with an emphasis on getting through the election process as opposed to getting it right or getting it done on a way where both sides felt confident in the results. Nothing about how the election was conducted rally gives me, and most other people for that matter, any confidence in it.

Trump was certainly polarizing and divisive, and he won 2016 by the skin of his teeth, though. Despite the impressive electoral courage numbers, the difference within key states was very marginal, and his win was extremely close in that regard. It's not out of the realm of possibility he offended enough people that those very close margins flipped out of his favor in those key states.

I don't think there's enough to say one way or the other. Neither would surprise be at this point. I don't think there's enough evidence to definitively say the election was stolen, but it was sloppy enough that there's not enough confidence in the process to say it wasn't.

22 minute video of hearing before Georgia state committee in December 2020 at bottom of Link

The data experts testify as to their methods and findings.

AggieCo2023 said:

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I know most of you strongly disagree with me but I'm actually curious and wanted y'all's opinion.

1. If the Democratic Party is so powerful and rife with corruption to the point they were able to "create" 81 million votes, why do they only use this power on selective occasions. Why did they elect to lose house seats in 2020, keep a tie in the senate, and lose most state wide elections such as Governors. If they're able to defraud their way to victory with ease why not do it more often?

2. I also hear many people on here complain on how all the institutions are overrun with liberals from the schools to the colleges to Big Business to the government. Y'all say the highly populated cities are packed with ignorant liberals. My question is if you believe there are so many liberals in every position of power and in the major cities why would it be a surprise that Democrats get a lot of votes for the Presidency?

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The democrats didn't create 81 million votes. They created just enough to win. Likewise, that was the goal in 2016, but they underestimated the amount of votes needed to win. They were prepared in 2020 and did not underestimate.

I have a better question for you. If Trump broke the all time vote count for a presidential candidate in 2020, how can we expect a guy who couldn't get more than 15 jeeps to show up at a campaign stop to break that newly broken record? The same guy who is responsible for Youtube removing the dislike count. The same guy who can't complete a single sentence. The same guy who likes to sniff children. the same guy who's son does drugs and other illegal business as shown on his laptop....

Malibu2 said:

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Do you have a link to a great article that highlights where vote counters and poll watchers were kicked out prior to votes being tabulated/reported? The most highlighted Detroit case was covering windows, but as far as I understand the Republican poll watchers already inside we're not kicked out.

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Why do you continue to ask for links? Are you incapable of studying these things on your own?

All you're going to do is object as a function of habit, to anything that is posted that you disagree with. Almost two years past the incident and you haven't taken 10 minutes to research it yourself?

What I know for a fact happened is they announced that they were finished counting in Pennsylvania. I went to bed on election night at approximately 1:30 am and looked at the results President Trump was performing well in all the midwest swing states. I went to bed and woke up a little before 6 to see if any updated. Every one of the midwest states consisting of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin had a huge and dramatic increase to Biden as illustrated from the charts on page 1 also.

Additionally as has been stated many states illegally altered voting laws in response to COVID pandemic.

Hungry Ojos said:

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I believe the election was stolen, but I also believe it was done in a way that can never be proven.

So why do I think it was stolen?

If you take a step back and look at everything pragmatically, there was no way Biden could have won. From pre-election momentum to winning all of the bellwether counties, to Trump gaining more votes than his last victorious run to Biden not even campaigning, and a million other factors, to me, make it absolutely ridiculous to conclude that Biden still garnered 81 million legal votes. It just didn't happen.

Then you throw in all of the Election Day fiascos from water lines breaking to midnight ballot dumps to prohibiting republicans from watching the count and finally, the overall ease at which mail in balloting can be manipulated, it's simply correct to conclude that Biden didn't win.

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And I'll make one final point, the most infuriating thing about the 2020 election is how smug and self righteous the left acts toward the result, simply because it went in their favor.

If ALL of the same quirks had happened in favor of Trump and he won, you whiny losers would have made January 6th look like a picnic. Every city in America would be on fire and there would be non-stop, wall to wall investigations, hearings, etc until you got the result changed. Effing hypocrites.

The Democrats do it all the time. Remember Bernie Sanders losing to both Hillary and Joe in the primaries? All the complaints about super delegates?

The fact of the matter is, a candidate like Trump would have zero chance winning the nomination as a Democrat because they have structured things such that the establishment candidate wins every time.

And regarding Trump and 2020, if you think it was just the Democrats, then you're extremely naive. This isn't a left vs right issue, it's an establishment vs the people issue. It's more about what the globalists want, Trump was a direct threat to that.

I haven't quite embraced the COVID conspiracy but there was no doubt a lot in play to guarantee not only that Trump didn't get reelected, but that a candidate who is compromised (ie the establishment and global elites have leverage over him) was elected instead to undo the America first doctrine started by Trump.

Quote:

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If ALL of the same quirks had happened in favor of Trump and he won, you whiny losers would have made January 6th look like a picnic. Every city in America would be on fire and there would be non-stop, wall to wall investigations, hearings, etc until you got the result changed. Effing hypocrites.

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They had the riots already planned, they have admitted that. But the stand down order came when Fox called Arizona for Biden. Again, that has been admitted in Time magazine.

All I needed to hear was Jim Clyburn on an open mic say (paraphrasing) "we can use the Covid crisis to enact our agenda".

They cheated and it worked.

I've never gotten an answer on this one from any of you pro-marxists...

Tell us how hundreds of thousands of mail in ballots were mailed in smaller sized envelopes without being folded.

I think the simple answer is that the Democrat political machine has been fraudulently manipulating local urban elections for generations. It dates back to well before Democrats like Boss Tweed in the 1860s. But 2020 was the first time we saw a coordinated response with multiple states interrupting their counts at the exact same time.

Trump significantly increased his vote total in 2020 and somehow the imbecile in chief had 81M supporters? It simply doesn't compute.

lb3 said:

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I think the simple answer is that the Democrat political machine has been fraudulently manipulating local urban elections for generations. It dates back to well before Democrats like Boss Tweed in the 1860s. But 2020 was the first time we saw a coordinated response with multiple states interrupting their counts at the exact same time.

Trump significantly increased his vote total in 2020 and somehow the imbecile in chief had 81M supporters? It simply doesn't compute.

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Cities like Philly, whose "vote" count was pivotal in swining PA for Biden, have been known for election shenanigans for many years, long before Trump was even in the picture.

So what was the verdict on that "busted pipe" in Georgia?

Artorias said:

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lb3 said:

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I think the simple answer is that the Democrat political machine has been fraudulently manipulating local urban elections for generations. It dates back to well before Democrats like Boss Tweed in the 1860s. But 2020 was the first time we saw a coordinated response with multiple states interrupting their counts at the exact same time.

Trump significantly increased his vote total in 2020 and somehow the imbecile in chief had 81M supporters? It simply doesn't compute.

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Cities like Philly, whose "vote" count was pivotal in swining PA for Biden, have been known for election shenanigans for many years, long before Trump was even in the picture.

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Yeah, no less than Ed Rendell former Dem governor of PA has openly talked about "walking around money" particularly in Philly. Paying for votes.

Houstonag said:

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Targeted in critical swing states was the strategy as others have stated. The Georgia vote was critical and ballot box stuffing with mail in ballots that were filled out by people other than the intended voter was the key to those races. Zuckerberg money funded ballot harvesting in 5 key states. Could they guarantee the results? No, but it worked.

A key point is the truck loaded wiht prefilled out ballots for Biden that originated in NY and made its way to suburbs in Penn. Where was the FBI? There was much fraud the swamp and JD just ignored it and the SC court did not want to get involved. Cowards. America has been damaged and lives lost due to the Biden administration.

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The FBI was planning the next string of false flag events against DJT and conservatives.

Htownag11 said:

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Orchestrating the fraud undetected in every district in the US would be impossible.

On the other hand, 5 heavily blue population centers in a single major counting location in swing states....

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EOT

lb3 said:

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I think the simple answer is that the Democrat political machine has been fraudulently manipulating local urban elections for generations. It dates back to well before Democrats like Boss Tweed in the 1860s. But 2020 was the first time we saw a coordinated response with multiple states interrupting their counts at the exact same time.

Trump significantly increased his vote total in 2020 and somehow the imbecile in chief had 81M supporters? It simply doesn't compute.

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And have never seen an explanation for that that passes any smell test for the bold. Its one of the reasons do incline to the `rigged' take on it, along with the sheer malevolence of the admin that came in. Retroactively confirming its capability for malfeasance. And as have said buy GA even less than the Presidential election.

Rapier108 said:

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The thread title alone is enough to know the OP is not serious about a discussion regarding the 2020 election.

Toss in his post about Trump selling nuclear secrets to the Saudis and its obvious what the real intention is.

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Probably likely…but it's the same as every post that begins with 'Honest question for liberals here…' Does anyone actually believe the intent is sincere? Broaching anything resembling a contradiction to the prevailing opinions here is either attacked or just assumed to be insincere. The only integrity on F16 lies in the consensus of how the majority defined it

AggieCo2023 said:

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I know most of you strongly disagree with me but I'm actually curious and wanted y'all's opinion.

1. If the Democratic Party is so powerful and rife with corruption to the point they were able to "create" 81 million votes, why do they only use this power on selective occasions. Why did they elect to lose house seats in 2020, keep a tie in the senate, and lose most state wide elections such as Governors. If they're able to defraud their way to victory with ease why not do it more often?

2. I also hear many people on here complain on how all the institutions are overrun with liberals from the schools to the colleges to Big Business to the government. Y'all say the highly populated cities are packed with ignorant liberals. My question is if you believe there are so many liberals in every position of power and in the major cities why would it be a surprise that Democrats get a lot of votes for the Presidency?

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1. A one word answer to titan's more elegant answer: incrementalism. That's how the left operates.

2. Premise isn't clear so don't think this is a valid ask.