I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.

536,099 Views | 7787 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by techno-ag
techno-ag
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hph6203 said:

techno-ag said:

hph6203 said:

Name one poster that says "EV utopia" is a couple of years away.
It's a common expressed by all of you that things will be better in two or three years.
Better is not utopia. I know words are hard for you, but they're not that hard.
LOL.
Trump will fix it.
hph6203
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AG
Deleted. Not worth it.
Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:

techno-ag said:

hph6203 said:

Name one poster that says "EV utopia" is a couple of years away.
It's a common expressed by all of you that things will be better in two or three years.


Communism is bound to work out next time.
It's a Five Year Plan.
Ag with kids
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GAC06 said:

Why?
I assume because he was mesmerized by the thread title...
Teslag
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What the **** does EV utopia even mean?
tk for tu juan
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Yes, that is a Tacoma TRD Off-road and RAM 2500 being used for parts, supplies, and back-up
Medaggie
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bobbranco said:

He parks it in his big garage and charges it, probably daily. He's loaded and loves his expensive things.
I know you are being facetious, but the Model Y is right at the average for a new car and with the credit, close to 40K. Adding a charger is around 1K.

techno-ag
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Tesla Full Self Driving Beta v12 is here, introducing neural nets into the mix.

https://electrek.co/2024/03/16/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-v12-finally-rolls-out/

Quote:

FSD Beta v12 has been one of the most anticipated updates to Tesla's controversial ADAS level 2 system, which it hopes will eventually become level 4 or even 5.

The Tesla v12 software update is introducing what Musk has been calling "end-to-end neural nets". The biggest difference with previous FSD updates is that the vehicle's controls are now being handled by neural nets rather than being coded by programmers.

It is being touted as the difference maker that should bring a lot of improvements. Musk again claimed, like he has with many FSD Beta updates before, it is "mind-blowing".


Trump will fix it.
Kansas Kid
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techno-ag said:

Tesla Full Self Driving Beta v12 is here, introducing neural nets into the mix.

https://electrek.co/2024/03/16/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-v12-finally-rolls-out/

Quote:

FSD Beta v12 has been one of the most anticipated updates to Tesla's controversial ADAS level 2 system, which it hopes will eventually become level 4 or even 5.

The Tesla v12 software update is introducing what Musk has been calling "end-to-end neural nets". The biggest difference with previous FSD updates is that the vehicle's controls are now being handled by neural nets rather than being coded by programmers.

It is being touted as the difference maker that should bring a lot of improvements. Musk again claimed, like he has with many FSD Beta updates before, it is "mind-blowing".




I will believe they get to level 3 or 4 when I see it. Until then, it is a good driver assist but the driver still needs to keep their eyes on the road and ready to take over.
techno-ag
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Tesla killed Hertz CEO's career.

Quote:

Hertz Global Holdings Inc. is replacing its chief executive officer in the wake of a disastrous bet on electric vehicles that the company began unwinding in recent months.

Under new owners Knighthead Capital Management and Certares Management, the rental company announced plans to order 100,000 vehicles from Tesla Inc., sending the automaker's market capitalization soaring past the $1 trillion mark at the time.

Those bets went awry last year, when Tesla slashed prices across its lineup to keep growing vehicle sales. This hammered the resale value of used Model 3 sedans and Model Y crossovers just after Hertz had added tens of thousands of those vehicles to its fleet.

By December, Hertz started selling off 20,000 electric vehicles, or about a third of its EV fleet. Germany's Sixt SE - a leading car-renter in Europe - is taking even more drastic measures, phasing Teslas out of its fleet entirely.


https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/amp/
Trump will fix it.
hph6203
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Can't say level 4 is coming soon, but this is the first time since it was initially released where it has been extremely surprising the things it can do (and that version was very bad compared to this). Things that they seemingly did not intentionally train on that emerged from feeding it data, and things that it generally failed at previously. It doesn't do all these things consistently yet, but it seems they're on a path to progressively fine tune as they get more and more driving data from more and more vehicle sales.

Steering around puddles:


Dead end turn around


Detour due to road closure


It was for awhile parking in parking spaces in parking lots, but they have seemingly removed it because it might have been unintentional behavior and someone had a minor fender bender while trying to wait for it to park.

Still a long way to go, but this was a pretty big jump forward.
BigRobSA
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Teslag said:

What the **** does EV utopia even mean?


When your Tesla doesn't just give you a worthless "vaccine"* it cooks your meal on an induction stove.
Ag with kids
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hph6203 said:

Can't say level 4 is coming soon, but this is the first time since it was initially released where it has been extremely surprising the things it can do (and that version was very bad compared to this). Things that they seemingly did not intentionally train on that emerged from feeding it data, and things that it generally failed at previously. It doesn't do all these things consistently yet, but it seems they're on a path to progressively fine tune as they get more and more driving data from more and more vehicle sales

It was for awhile parking in parking spaces in parking lots, but they have seemingly removed it because it might have been unintentional behavior and someone had a minor fender bender while trying to wait for it to park.

Still a long way to go, but this was a pretty big jump forward.
Well...yeah...They need to get to Level 3 first.
BigRobSA
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Ag with kids said:

hph6203 said:

Can't say level 4 is coming soon, but this is the first time since it was initially released where it has been extremely surprising the things it can do (and that version was very bad compared to this). Things that they seemingly did not intentionally train on that emerged from feeding it data, and things that it generally failed at previously. It doesn't do all these things consistently yet, but it seems they're on a path to progressively fine tune as they get more and more driving data from more and more vehicle sales

It was for awhile parking in parking spaces in parking lots, but they have seemingly removed it because it might have been unintentional behavior and someone had a minor fender bender while trying to wait for it to park.

Still a long way to go, but this was a pretty big jump forward.
Well...yeah...They need to get to Level 3 first.

"Look at me! I know how to math!!!1"


Nobody likes a braggart!
Ag with kids
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BigRobSA said:

Ag with kids said:

hph6203 said:

Can't say level 4 is coming soon, but this is the first time since it was initially released where it has been extremely surprising the things it can do (and that version was very bad compared to this). Things that they seemingly did not intentionally train on that emerged from feeding it data, and things that it generally failed at previously. It doesn't do all these things consistently yet, but it seems they're on a path to progressively fine tune as they get more and more driving data from more and more vehicle sales

It was for awhile parking in parking spaces in parking lots, but they have seemingly removed it because it might have been unintentional behavior and someone had a minor fender bender while trying to wait for it to park.

Still a long way to go, but this was a pretty big jump forward.
Well...yeah...They need to get to Level 3 first.

"Look at me! I know how to math!!!1"


Nobody likes a braggart!
True...

I'm still living off of my 2nd grade gold star for getting the all the plus tables correct.

But, dammit, I EARNED that gold star!!!
hph6203
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Nah. Not how it works.
hph6203
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Ag with kids
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hph6203 said:

Nah. Not how it works.
Yeah...it is...

We already discussed this...

nortex97
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"Buy an EV to save on gas bills, they said."
RanchoBrushyTop
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EVs will eventually prove to be one of the worst environmental catastrophes ever. Why anyone defends them, let alone owns one, baffles me.
cecil77
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RanchoBrushyTop said:

EVs will eventually prove to be one of the worst environmental catastrophes ever. Why anyone defends them, let alone owns one, baffles me.
Honestly, there's no difference in you asserting that than there is an EV fan asserting that you are harming the environment by not owning one.

Buy one, don't buy one. Just leave me out of it.
Kansas Kid
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cecil77 said:

RanchoBrushyTop said:

EVs will eventually prove to be one of the worst environmental catastrophes ever. Why anyone defends them, let alone owns one, baffles me.
Honestly, there's not difference in you asserting that than there is an EV fan asserting that you are harming the environment by not owning one.

Buy one, don't buy one. Just leave me out of it.

It's like all environmental extremist comments meant to shut down all opposition comments. The actual damage done in virtually all cases by man other than a nuclear bomb or reactor explosion like Chernobyl is minimal.
oh no
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RanchoBrushyTop said:

EVs will eventually prove to be one of the worst environmental catastrophes ever. Why anyone defends them, let alone owns one, baffles me.
i'm about to own one. Will still have my wife's Yukon and son's Sierra, and probably buying my daughter a jeep or bronco next year when she turns 16. It may not unbaffle you, but me selling my F150 and getting a Rivian is for fun.
hph6203
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They are not gated levels. They do not have to deploy a level 3 system prior to deploying a level 4 system. They can develop their autonomous software as a level 2 system and improve it until the rate of human intervention exceeds a threshold of competency to be deployable as a level 4 system. Whether they decide to implement it as a level 3 system is dependent upon their risk tolerance/time it takes to get to level 4 capability and whether they even approach it.

They currently have the capability of demonstrating reliability of their system at a rate of ~1 million miles per day. In 3 years they'll have >6 million vehicles on the road in the U.S. if they felt they had a system ready for level 4 deployment they could provide a free trial to their fleet of vehicles and generate up to 43 billion miles (or more) over a 6 month period. If they achieve the reliability necessary to deploy as a level 4 system they will have the most thoroughly tested and proven autonomous driving system in the world.
Ag with kids
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hph6203 said:

They are not gated levels. They do not have to deploy a level 3 system prior to deploying a level 4 system. They can develop their autonomous software as a level 2 system and improve it until the rate of human intervention exceeds a threshold of competency to be deployable as a level 4 system. Whether they decide to implement it as a level 3 system is dependent upon their risk tolerance/time it takes to get to level 4 capability and whether they even approach it.

They currently have the capability of demonstrating reliability of their system at a rate of ~1 million miles per day. In 3 years they'll have >6 million vehicles on the road in the U.S. if they felt they had a system ready for level 4 deployment they could provide a free trial to their fleet of vehicles and generate up to 43 billion miles (or more) over a 6 month period. If they achieve the reliability necessary to deploy as a level 4 system they will have the most thoroughly tested and proven autonomous driving system in the world.
I never said the levels were gated.

As an engineer, I would try to not just skip one level when deploying (years of flight testing taught me that), but Tesla is free to do that.

However, that wasn't what I said...

But, thanks for the advertisement about the amount of miles they've driven.
hph6203
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Forgive me, when I said it's unclear when they'll get to level 4 autonomy and you said "they need to get to level 3 first", I thought you were saying "they need to get to level 3 first." When you said "they need to get to level 3 first" what you actually said was "I would get to level 3 first."
hph6203
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$1200 electric bill in the Bay Area for a 4600 sq ft house with 6 people with at least one EV.

With their gas prices he'd have to be paying $.70/ kWh, which would mean for that 4600 sq ft house he was only using 1700 kWh.

GAC06
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Maybe throw his water bill in there too to blame on his EV
Kansas Kid
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hph6203 said:

Forgive me, when I said it's unclear when they'll get to level 4 autonomy and you said "they need to get to level 3 first", I thought you were saying "they need to get to level 3 first." When you said "they need to get to level 3 first" what you actually said was "I would get to level 3 first."

The simple reality based on what we have seen with autonomy is they will get to level 3 long before they get to level 4. They could go technically go straight to level 4 or 5 but that isn't how Tesla or anyone else innovates in this space.
cecil77
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hph6203 said:

Forgive me, when I said it's unclear when they'll get to level 4 autonomy and you said "they need to get to level 3 first", I thought you were saying "they need to get to level 3 first." When you said "they need to get to level 3 first" what you actually said was "I would get to level 3 first."
hph6203
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You can't really say that's not how Tesla has developed their system, they have never deployed a system beyond level 2, which is minimally defined as a vehicle with lane keeping and adaptive cruise control.

With respect to the other systems, their go to market systems were level 3 systems, but they had no other choice because they had to demonstrate competence to the consumer as well as needed to generate some offset to their development costs. Tesla is a profitable company with a level 2 system and are capable of generating millions in revenue with a level 2 system, because the vehicles are owned by the operators.

I'm not saying they definitively won't deploy a level 3 system, I'm saying it is not necessary for them to do so because they can demonstrate a system reliable enough to be deployed as a level 4 system while it operates as a level 2 system. I also don't really see the purpose of a level 3 system for their business, because most of the utility can be derived by deploying an extremely competent level 2 system.

If they ever get to a level 4 system with current hardware it will be the most thoroughly proven autonomous system in history. It will be interesting to see how rapidly this current method improves, because it surpassed the old method in under 12 months of development while the other method took, I believe, 6 years.
Ag with kids
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hph6203 said:

Forgive me, when I said it's unclear when they'll get to level 4 autonomy and you said "they need to get to level 3 first", I thought you were saying "they need to get to level 3 first." When you said "they need to get to level 3 first" what you actually said was "I would get to level 3 first."
Hint: You can reach levels without releasing a software build...
hph6203
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Can is not need. You're trying to shift the argument now. Words have meanings.
Ag with kids
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hph6203 said:

You can't really say that's not how Tesla has developed their system, they have never deployed a system beyond level 2, which is minimally defined as a vehicle with lane keeping and adaptive cruise control.

With respect to the other systems, their go to market systems were level 3 systems, but they had no other choice because they had to demonstrate competence to the consumer as well as needed to generate some offset to their development costs. Tesla is a profitable company with a level 2 system and are capable of generating millions in revenue with a level 2 system, because the vehicles are owned by the operators.

I'm not saying they definitively won't deploy a level 3 system, I'm saying it is not necessary for them to do so because they can demonstrate a system reliable enough to be deployed as a level 4 system while it operates as a level 2 system. I also don't really see the purpose of a level 3 system for their business, because most of the utility can be derived by deploying an extremely competent level 2 system.

If they ever get to a level 4 system with current hardware it will be the most thoroughly proven autonomous system in history. It will be interesting to see how rapidly this current method improves, because it surpassed the old method in under 12 months of development while the other method took, I believe, 6 years.
You do realize the the difference between Level 3 and Level 4 is whether you need a person in the driver's seat or not, right?

That's not a small difference.
Ag with kids
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hph6203 said:

Can is not need. You're trying to shift the argument now. Words have meanings.
Well, they're not Level 3...so...
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