VW sued over EV Porsche that led to the big fire/sinking of a car transport ship;

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The suits claim that the lithium-ion battery of an unspecified Porsche model (presumably a Taycan) caused the fire and that VW had not informed them of the danger and necessary precautions required for transporting electric vehicles. The judges have not yet looked into the merits of the two lawsuits as the parties involved have yet to agree on the amount of collateral that must be posted.

Estimates suggest that the fire cost the VW Group approximately $155 million. Fortunately for most customers who had vehicles on board the Felicity Ace, their vehicles were replaced. These included the 15 Lamborghini Aventador Ultimae models that were destroyed as well as ~1,800 Audi vehicles that were also on the ship.

Some of the non-VW Group used vehicles were not replaced. These included a 1996 Honda Prelude SiR that was on the ship and being imported to the U.S. The Felicity Ace was also carrying a 1977 Land Rover Santana, a 2007 BMW 750i, a 2015 Ford Mustang, and a 2019 Mini Countryman.

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I definitely would not want to be out at sea on a boat with any EV's on it.

nortex97 said:

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VW sued over EV Porsche that led to the big fire/sinking of a car transport ship;

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The suits claim that the lithium-ion battery of an unspecified Porsche model (presumably a Taycan) caused the fire and that VW had not informed them of the danger and necessary precautions required for transporting electric vehicles. The judges have not yet looked into the merits of the two lawsuits as the parties involved have yet to agree on the amount of collateral that must be posted.

Estimates suggest that the fire cost the VW Group approximately $155 million. Fortunately for most customers who had vehicles on board the Felicity Ace, their vehicles were replaced. These included the 15 Lamborghini Aventador Ultimae models that were destroyed as well as ~1,800 Audi vehicles that were also on the ship.

Some of the non-VW Group used vehicles were not replaced. These included a 1996 Honda Prelude SiR that was on the ship and being imported to the U.S. The Felicity Ace was also carrying a 1977 Land Rover Santana, a 2007 BMW 750i, a 2015 Ford Mustang, and a 2019 Mini Countryman.

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I definitely would not want to be out at sea on a boat with any EV's on it.

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I read the story about the prelude. Owner bought it and shipped it. Declined insurance, lost the car. Definitely sucks but that's why you get insurance!!!!
https://japanesenostalgiccar.com/honda-prelude-sir-now-at-bottom-of-ocean-thanks-to-felicity-ace/

But but … it could have been an ICE car that sunk that ship. We all know that ICE cars spontaneously combust on cargo vessels all the time.

/EVangelists

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLRnnA1M/

You can't make this **** up.

Except he did make it up. The Tesla app won't display someone's private home charger.

Wow. I guess because it takes so long to charge there can be more altercations around public/private charging stations alike. Trusting people broadly to properly charge/maintain an EV is…quite a leap of faith.

Gas stations being world renowned for their civility and cleanliness.

Something like that would never happen with ICE vehicles.

https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/crime/retrial-underway-for-man-accused-in-fatal-gas-station-shooting-during-hurricane-ida-aftermath/289-501b2093-ee60-4ae5-88ba-1dd290df05be

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It happened in the days after Hurricane Ida when there were long lines at gas stations. Sippio allegedly cut in line and was then confronted by Nosacka. The two men got into a dispute, and that's when Sippio allegedly pulled a gun and shot Nosacka before driving off.

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And during a hurricane evacuation no less. This also proves that EV's are far, far safer and better for hurricane evacuation than their ICE counterparts.

hph6203 said:

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Gas stations being world renowned for their civility and cleanliness.

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The added risk around EV public charging stations I think is that (a) there aren't that many of them to choose from (I avoid dangerous gas stations in Dallas for instance), and (b) one has to sit there for 20-45 minutes to charge up an EV, making for an ample opportunity if a line especially to be scouted/targeted by any criminals or just angry/stupid people nearby.

Taking a couple minutes to fill a tank with gas/diesel to go 300-400 miles is not really an equal compare, and also adds to the 'infrequent' (for most) long distance trips taken with an EV as you don't really know the stations you will be using/trust the app etc. which won't likely include crime statistics.

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there aren't that many of them to choose from

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lolwut

And yet the average Tesla charging port sees 5 people visit it per day for an average of 27 minutes. The occupancy rate of all EV charging ports in the country is around 19%, just announced this week, 15% being the threshold defined as the point where they begin to break even, Tesla's breakeven is much earlier than that due to lower installation costs so while they have a very low occupancy rate they're about to get an influx of revenue by opening up their network and gain the opportunity to proliferate their number of stations.

It's almost like the ability to recharge a vehicle at home mitigates the need for charging in public, so while you have to search for a clean gas station, an EV owner can guarantee the cleanliness of where they charge their car.

I guess they could invite homeless people over to their homes for nostalgia's sake.

Teslag said:

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Something like that would never happen with ICE vehicles.

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Response predicted, and delivered.

hph6203 said:

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And yet the average Tesla charging port sees 5 people visit it per day for an average of 27 minutes. The occupancy rate of all EV charging ports in the country is around 19%, just announced this week, 15% being the threshold defined as the point where they begin to break even, Tesla's breakeven is much earlier than that due to lower installation costs so while they have a very low occupancy rate they're about to get an influx of revenue by opening up their network and gain the opportunity to proliferate their number of stations.

It's almost like the ability to recharge a vehicle at home mitigates the need for charging in public, so while you have to search for a clean gas station, an EV owner can guarantee the cleanliness of where they charge their car.

I guess they could invite homeless people over to their homes for nostalgia's sake.

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Too many logical fallacies for me to list here, I have to go sorry, but my favorite two are that 'well 19 percent occupancy' means no one waits for chargers. I've seen lines my self, and it's the unreliability/broken chargers as well as backups that would be frustrating for such a process, and second EV drivers can't always charge at home. They might have an apartment, or go on a trip, and the 'infrequent' use cases can cause real safety concerns not found in ICE vehicle comparators.

Again, more to that but it sounds like charging stations are marginally profitable, if at all. I doubt that changes with the escalating price of metals etc. needed for last mile/transformers/electrical gear they have to employ to build out. With the market increasingly rejecting EV's based on dynamic adoption rates I think it's unlikely the massive growth in charging stations will happen, as the politics won't force the adoption rates promised/hoped-for.

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I have to go sorry, but my favorite two are that 'well 19 percent occupancy' means no one waits for chargers. I've seen lines my self, and it's the unreliability/broken chargers as well as backups that would be frustrating for such a process

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I like how you don't know we can see real time supercharger availability down to the stall on our Tesla apps. Not a single line in one of the largest metro areas in the country

Update for all; no, I do not have the tesla app on my phone.

No, that is not relevant, in any way. Carry on.

nortex97 said:

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Update for all; no, I do not have the tesla app on my phone.

No, that is not relevant, in any way. Carry on.

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It's a counter to your absurd notion of supercharger availability being a difficult process. It's not. The extent of your EV knowledge is random articles you find to confirm your bias.

But every now and then you'll try to dip your toe in the water and try to assume you know what it's like to own one of these.


You don't. And it shows time and time again.

Another day of getting whack-a-mole'd for the EV haters

But seriously, I was planning on getting a Tesla later this year. Now that I've been apprised of the serious risks of waiting at a charger (which I apparently would do for some reason instead of charging at home), and the absolute scourge of tire particles, I'll get an F-250 instead

Alas, charging anxiety is a thing.

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Knizek also cites the phenomenon called "charging anxiety" when it comes to public infrastructure charging stations. He said many consumers find themselves asking: "What's the charging situation going to be like when I show up? Is the charger functioning? Will there be a line? Is it going to be fast?"

Consumer Reports finds that worries about the charging experience are fast replacing range anxiety as the number one problem among new EV owners. Range anxiety is a concern over whether an EV recharging location is available when a charge is needed.

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https://www.investors.com/news/technology/tesla-electric-vehicles-ev-charging-stocks/

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"What's the charging situation going to be like when I show up? Is the charger functioning? Will there be a line? Is it going to be fast?"

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This isn't a thing with Tesla superchargers and Teslas, and your article says as much.

Consequence of bad government. The largest charging network was built out as a punishment for emission defeat systems in Volkswagen's diesel vehicles. Government ordered VW to spend $2 billion on new energy, and they chose to spend it on an EV charging network in a time before Tesla achieved profitability/the Model 3 had really hit volume production. They then proceeded to install a significant number of low speed DC "fast" chargers and waste $2 billion with no intention of ever meaningfully supporting the network after deployment.

Had the government just straight up fined VW the $2 billion and created a fund for other companies to draw from in the proliferation of chargers there likely would be significantly less of a narrative that EV charging is unreliable, especially if the bulk of the funds went to Tesla. For $2 billion, based upon their current cost of deployment, it would have funded the installation of ~100,000 charging ports, at the current average of 8 ports per station that would have been ~14,000 stations, or one station for every ~285 miles of U.S. highway reaching 1/5th of the way to the current goal of 500,000 charging ports across the country off of one fine, while making those charge ports a profit-making system from day one.

Compare that to the cost of building a gas station and you might get ~600 stations with ~4800 pumps. EV charging is cheaper to build, cheaper to maintain, and is actually a profitable business that doesn't have to have a symbiotic relationship with another business to maintain function.

Instead of doing that they're now creating the fund with taxpayer money.

Bad government creates a bad narrative about the nature of EV charging while trying to create a positive one.

Agreed the government is overly-involved in pushing EV silliness and it is all backfiring/not working well/cohesively with consumers.

Range anxiety is real, too, for EV's. For most, a 200 mile EV would work as a daily second car, but people think they need 400 miles so that's a lot more weight/mass/cooling/energy needed to store/manage. And yet, some of that is also that just when sitting in the winter, for instance, outside in the north especially they are devouring range while not plugged in. Range anxiety and government meddling won't be going away, and public charging options are not going to be 'equivalent' to gas stations in my lifetime, imho.

Teslag said:

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I have to go sorry, but my favorite two are that 'well 19 percent occupancy' means no one waits for chargers. I've seen lines my self, and it's the unreliability/broken chargers as well as backups that would be frustrating for such a process

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I like how you don't know we can see real time supercharger availability down to the stall on our Tesla apps. Not a single line in one of the largest metro areas in the country

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Now here's a map of all the gas stations in the same area...

hph6203 said:

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Consequence of bad government. The largest charging network was built out as a punishment for emission defeat systems in Volkswagen's diesel vehicles. Government ordered VW to spend $2 billion on new energy, and they chose to spend it on an EV charging network in a time before Tesla achieved profitability/the Model 3 had really hit volume production. They then proceeded to install a significant number of low speed DC "fast" chargers and waste $2 billion with no intention of ever meaningfully supporting the network after deployment.

Had the government just straight up fined VW the $2 billion and created a fund for other companies to draw from in the proliferation of chargers there likely would be significantly less of a narrative that EV charging is unreliable, especially if the bulk of the funds went to Tesla. For $2 billion, based upon their current cost of deployment, it would have funded the installation of ~100,000 charging ports, at the current average of 8 ports per station that would have been ~14,000 stations, or one station for every ~285 miles of U.S. highway reaching 1/5th of the way to the current goal of 500,000 charging ports across the country off of one fine, while making those charge ports a profit-making system from day one.

Compare that to the cost of building a gas station and you might get ~600 stations with ~4800 pumps. EV charging is cheaper to build, cheaper to maintain, and is actually a profitable business that doesn't have to have a symbiotic relationship with another business to maintain function.

Instead of doing that they're now creating the fund with taxpayer money.

Bad government creates a bad narrative about the nature of EV charging while trying to create a positive one.

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So, the EV infrastructure currently sucks because government did socialism wrong again?

Socialism would have been better than what they did. They did directed capitalism. They made VW start a new business, fund it for a certain amount of money, and then had no requirements to make it sustainable. At least with socialism they would have just handed the money out with no expectation that anyone did anything and no chargers would've been made and we wouldn't be talking about how bad they are, but rather how reliable they are and we just need more of them in more places.

hph6203 said:

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Socialism would have been better than what they did. They did directed capitalism. They made VW start a new business, fund it for a certain amount of money, and then had no requirements to make it sustainable. At least with socialism they would have just handed the money out with no expectation that anyone did anything and no chargers would've been made and we wouldn't be talking about how bad they are, but rather how reliable they are and we just need more of them in more places.

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The absolutely rich irony in this is that VW is literally/etymologically 'the people's car company' originally, owned by the nazi (as in, national socialist) government itself.

That they got busted, so many years later…cheating communist emissions standards using software to pass emissions tests using diesel engines is…again hilarious, and the solution was then to use the leverage by our communists to force them to build more commie cars/stations etc.

And…it didn't work well, again.

Not that VW is known for…reliable ICE cars or anything else anyway. No sane person says "I need something really reliable for the next 10 years/300K miles, let's go look at a VW/Audi/Porsche."

Porsche is consistently one of the most reliable brands

tk for tu juan said:

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Porsche is consistently one of the most reliable brands

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He should already know that since he got absolutely owned on this thread by Porsche owners

https://texags.com/forums/46/topics/3311583/replies/62880225#62880225

Excellent!

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-owner?amp

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Meet the typical Tesla owner: A Generation X male with a household income over $150,000

- Tesla owners are typically white men, a study that analyzed drivers of several Tesla models found.

- The typical Tesla owner has a household income of more than $150,000 a year, according to the study.

- Tesla owners are also more likely to own a home and not have children living with them.

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OK then. Kinda backs up what we've been saying all along.

Teslag said:

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tk for tu juan said:

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Porsche is consistently one of the most reliable brands

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He should already know that since he got absolutely owned on this thread by Porsche owners

https://texags.com/forums/46/topics/3311583/replies/62880225#62880225

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Digs up 2022 thread with 911 fans to prove I 'should already know that because I got absolutely owned…'

LOL. "Always check Teslag links."

Dude, you are a self-professed BMW fan/long time owner/lessor. Your credibility about German car long-term reliability/engineering is…not real good for many of us. In fact, I seem to recall you noting you'd never own a BMW after the warranty expired or some such.

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Dude, you are a self-professed BMW fan/long time owner/lessor. Your credibility about German car long-term reliability/engineering is…not real good for many of us.

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Why?

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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tk for tu juan said:

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Porsche is consistently one of the most reliable brands

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He should already know that since he got absolutely owned on this thread by Porsche owners

https://texags.com/forums/46/topics/3311583/replies/62880225#62880225

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Digs up 2022 thread with 911 fans to prove I 'should already know that because I got absolutely owned…'

LOL. "Always check Teslag links."

Dude, you are a self-professed BMW fan/long time owner/lessor. Your credibility about German car long-term reliability/engineering is…not real good for many of us. In fact, I seem to recall you noting you'd never own a BMW after the warranty expired or some such.

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You do realize a BMW isn't a Porsche right?

At one time I had a 2010 VW GTI that made about 400hp atthe wheels. A 1000hp Audi S4. A stock S4. And a 1996 A4 snow beast. All those and then my 2003 Silvy.
The stock S4 was a beater but the rest were solid.

The Nazimobiles aren't bad.