I'm a big fan of Lexus as a former IS owner, but I freaking hate the Lexus RC. It's hideous and is overdone to me...as if it's a slow ass car with a bunch of aerodynamic crap in its body to make it look fast. I also recall it had bad reviews in it's early years. No idea if that is still true and I'm probably being unfair.

Either go IS-F and get that 500Hp V8 or go Cayman.

YouBet said:

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I'm a big fan of Lexus as a former IS owner, but I freaking hate the Lexus RC. It's hideous and is overdone to me...as if it's a slow ass car with a bunch of aerodynamic crap in its body to make it look fast. I also recall it had bad reviews in it's early years. No idea if that is still true and I'm probably being unfair.

Either go IS-F and get that 500Hp V8 or go Cayman.

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RC F has the same V8 I believe.

Porsche's are absolutely beautiful to look at, and many drive quite well when new. I've always considered them disposable vehicles though for the rich, as after the first few years they really are not designed/built/engineered to be easily maintained.

The huge amount of customizable options etc. really reinforce that it is to be a toy for the original owner and that is about it.

Not true at all. People tend to group the German manufacturers together but data shows Porsche to be super reliable. True when Porsches have issues, they are expensive to fix but I've dailied them for the past 10 years and haven't had any problems at all.

When I'm at funerals there is normally a photos show.

Never seen a photo of said person's Lexus (or minivan or other appliance car)

Seen lots of Porches and similar vehicles.

If you are going to buy a fun car, you want the funeral photo car.

I could see that for many. Relatively late in life, retired, don't work on cars yourself, a fun toy while still able to drive around safely and taking photos etc. the Porsche makes more sense, again to many.

Of course as pricey status symbols many are kept on the road a long time, at tremendous cost. Nothing about them is really built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired.

nortex97 said:

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I could see that for many. Relatively late in life, retired, don't work on cars yourself, a fun toy while still able to drive around safely and taking photos etc. the Porsche makes more sense, again to many.

Of course as pricey status symbols many are kept on the road a long time, at tremendous cost. Nothing about them is really built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired.

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That's the Macan, the 911 is slightly lower.

https://caredge.com/porsche/911/maintenance

Compared to other $100+ German sports cars, I've always heard that 911s are cheaper & easier to maintain. Unless you have to replace the engine ($15K+).....

nortex97 said:

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I could see that for many. Relatively late in life, retired, don't work on cars yourself, a fun toy while still able to drive around safely and taking photos etc. the Porsche makes more sense, again to many.

Of course as pricey status symbols many are kept on the road a long time, at tremendous cost. Nothing about them is really built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired.

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On what do you base the observation "they are not built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired?" This is nonsense.

Have you ever worked on one? Compared to what?

Porsches are reliable. Porsche dealer maintenance is expensive - and that skews ownership costs considerably.

But now factor in depreciation -- and you will generally find that residual value offsets what you paid in additional maintenance.

Every Boxster/Cayman/911 older than (around) 2010 is past its depreciation floor, and is now increasing in price. What other marque can you say that about?

Trinity Ag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I could see that for many. Relatively late in life, retired, don't work on cars yourself, a fun toy while still able to drive around safely and taking photos etc. the Porsche makes more sense, again to many.

Of course as pricey status symbols many are kept on the road a long time, at tremendous cost. Nothing about them is really built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired.

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On what do you base the observation "they are not built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired?" This is nonsense.

Have you ever worked on one? Compared to what?

Porsches are reliable. Porsche dealer maintenance is expensive - and that skews ownership costs considerably.

But now factor in depreciation -- and you will generally find that residual value offsets what you paid in additional maintenance.

Every Boxster/Cayman/911 older than (around) 2010 is past its depreciation floor, and is now increasing in price. What other marque can you say that about?

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Tell me you've been burned by a Porsche dealer for service, and now pay someone else to work on your Porsche, without telling me that.

They are the most expensive brand to maintain; this is just a simple point of fact, not an emotional argument and while the dealer markup is I am sure part of that, this is common across all brands today (not just luxury ones, even), and overall the cost to do even basic things like change the oil ($500?) is high because…it's a pain to do it, and it takes more time than other vehicles, typically, to put on the expensive parts/take out the old ones/get to the part to be serviced/lubed etc.

nortex97 said:

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Trinity Ag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I could see that for many. Relatively late in life, retired, don't work on cars yourself, a fun toy while still able to drive around safely and taking photos etc. the Porsche makes more sense, again to many.

Of course as pricey status symbols many are kept on the road a long time, at tremendous cost. Nothing about them is really built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired.

---

On what do you base the observation "they are not built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired?" This is nonsense.

Have you ever worked on one? Compared to what?

Porsches are reliable. Porsche dealer maintenance is expensive - and that skews ownership costs considerably.

But now factor in depreciation -- and you will generally find that residual value offsets what you paid in additional maintenance.

Every Boxster/Cayman/911 older than (around) 2010 is past its depreciation floor, and is now increasing in price. What other marque can you say that about?

---

Tell me you've been burned by a Porsche dealer for service, and now pay someone else to work on your Porsche, without telling me that.

They are the most expensive brand to maintain; this is just a simple point of fact, not an emotional argument and while the dealer markup is I am sure part of that, this is common across all brands today (not just luxury ones, even), and overall the cost to do even basic things like change the oil ($500?) is high because…it's a pain to do it, and it takes more time than other vehicles, typically, to put on the expensive parts/take out the old ones/get to the part to be serviced/lubed etc.

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I'm too cheap to have a dog in this fight (yet) but the first paragraph about Porsche tells both sides.

Quote:

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It's no surprise that Porsche is one of the most expensive automobile brands to maintain. It is, nonetheless, one of the most dependable automotive brands available

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Talk to an established mechanic. My bet is Lexus, on the average, primarily for repair costs past 100K.

BTW, Porsche about to IPO.

I've never been "burned" by a Porsche dealer.

My first was a CPO '05 Boxster S. It was 5 yo when I bought it. In 2 years and 20k miles it needed nothing except routine maintenance (oil, plugs, belt)-- which I did in about a 3 hours -- the first time I had actually ever changed the oil or plugs in any car.

Second was '88 air-cooled 911, and I did everything myself -- including dropping the engine, changing the sensors, fuel lines, gaskets, valve clearance, and clutch. I did it in my garage with a floorjack and jack stands, with close to zero automotive experience. It never broke -- but it was 25 years old, and had a lot of old and brittle hoses and gaskets. I owned it 6 years, and sold it in 2018 for $18k more than I paid for it. And it is worth $15k more than that today.

Third was a 11 year old '07 Boxster that I owned a short time (1 year, 10k miles), and it needed nothing except belts and an oil change. I sold it on in Texags for $1k less than I paid for it in 2019 (I gave an Ag a deal, as an Ag sold it to me cheap) and it is probably worth $8k+ more than I sold it for today.

My current is new, and I sprung for the additional year of dealer maintenance -- mainly because it was part of the deal to get the allocation at MSRP.

I am a rookie mechanic that came to it late in life, -- totally self-taught on youtube -- and am certainly no expert. But I think my opinion is formed by experience, and not what I read on the interwebs.

https://www.carvertical.com/blog/research-which-cars-suffer-from-depreciation-the-most

Seems like Tesla should be pretty highly ranked

But everyone here claims Land Rover are pieces of junk and basically worthless after a few years so this graph can't be correct……

drumboy said:

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nortex97 said:

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Trinity Ag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I could see that for many. Relatively late in life, retired, don't work on cars yourself, a fun toy while still able to drive around safely and taking photos etc. the Porsche makes more sense, again to many.

Of course as pricey status symbols many are kept on the road a long time, at tremendous cost. Nothing about them is really built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired.

---

On what do you base the observation "they are not built to be easily maintained/updated/repaired?" This is nonsense.

Have you ever worked on one? Compared to what?

Porsches are reliable. Porsche dealer maintenance is expensive - and that skews ownership costs considerably.

But now factor in depreciation -- and you will generally find that residual value offsets what you paid in additional maintenance.

Every Boxster/Cayman/911 older than (around) 2010 is past its depreciation floor, and is now increasing in price. What other marque can you say that about?

---

Tell me you've been burned by a Porsche dealer for service, and now pay someone else to work on your Porsche, without telling me that.

They are the most expensive brand to maintain; this is just a simple point of fact, not an emotional argument and while the dealer markup is I am sure part of that, this is common across all brands today (not just luxury ones, even), and overall the cost to do even basic things like change the oil ($500?) is high because…it's a pain to do it, and it takes more time than other vehicles, typically, to put on the expensive parts/take out the old ones/get to the part to be serviced/lubed etc.

---

I'm too cheap to have a dog in this fight (yet) but the first paragraph about Porsche tells both sides.

Quote:

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It's no surprise that Porsche is one of the most expensive automobile brands to maintain. It is, nonetheless, one of the most dependable automotive brands available

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Dependable brand? Yes. Well, there are all those SUV's and Panamera's nowadays, but still, they are a dependable luxury brand by any definition. And frankly all modern cars are very reliable for the first few to 5 years nowadays.

The issue isn't residual/whether there are fan boys (who are to generalize a bit, just a tad ignorant/above actually ever working on/maintaining the cars themselves), I'm addressing the real, ongoing maintenance costs to get/keep a Porsche reliable/driving well. If you throw $10K a year at maintaining an old Chevy Cavalier it will be reliable too.

I have a 7 year old Porsche. It's one of the oldest cars I've ever driven. It has had exactly zero mechanical problems and needs very little on my part to keep it "reliable" or "driving well". Every time I've taken it in for service, they've told me it's in excellent condition.

Now, if you are talking routine maintenance like tires, battery, and brakes, then, yes, that WILL cost more than other cars, partly because these are performance vehicles (Discount Tire isn't going to be an option, nor would I want them anywhere near my Boxster). But those expenses don't pop up every year.

I've had mine since 2019. Aside from the cosmetic issue with the door panels, all I've done is put new tires on it. My parents had a new battery put in before they gave it to me (maybe brakes, too, I can't remember). I believe they also replaced the tires when they had it. That's literally all the recent maintenance it's had.

My friend/neighbor will probably do my oil change this year, since that's all it needs.

Eventually it will probably need a new clutch, but I don't put very many miles on mine, so that will prob be a while.

Compared to the BMW I had for 5 years, this car is no trouble at all. That car was a PITA. And I see way more BMWs on the road than I do Porsches.

Cost of ownership is higher. But the car isn't going to chronically be in the shop like your posts imply. Nor should it cost $10k/year.

This post was about the 911 and I think it's more reliable and folks can wrench on them in their garage compared to a Macan or Cayenne.

Compared to other European $100K+ sports cars, especially mid/rear engine, I think the 911 is cheaper to own. Maserati GranTurismo, Vantage......

Yeah maybe, yet that's like comparing your blood work to Elvis' final physical (if he had one, I dunno).

I am not going to argue that $100K Maserati's and Aston's etc. are easy/cheap to work on, either, but it is indicative to use that as a bar.

And to the poster above, part of a mechanic's job is often to say 'it's in good shape' in a respectful way. This builds rapport/supports customer retention, that you might perceive the mechanic likes/appreciates both the vehicle and your maintenance practices.

If you have a European car shop note that 'these things are money pits' or 'this thing is about to fall apart' or 'it really is incredible this oil change takes 2 hours and $500 to perform' it is probably because they want you to just go away.