***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

7,592,457 Views | 47822 Replies | Last: 8 hrs ago by sclaff
unmade bed
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Honestly, win, lose, or draw in this conflict, Putin has made a massive strategic blunder. This will take Russia decades to recover from. Even if they withdraw, I see some sanctions, like those against military supply chains, becoming permanent. They're going to waste a huge portion of their military assets in Ukraine, and they won't have the cash or the suppliers to rebuild them. They've also only strengthened their adversaries in NATO and China, and they've blown years of strategic development to get Europe dependent on Russian gas. They'll still be about to sell it, but Europe is on a path to diversification, and they're not going to be looking back after this. That political leverage is going to be gone.
So much this. Russia's standing in the world will never be the same.


This line of discussion may not belong in this thread (if so sorry mods), but what is so perplexing to me is the timing of the decision. Russia had been so patient and deliberate in its covert and subversive attacks against the West. It was winning hands down and the West was on the verge on self destruction due to partisan in-fighting, unchecked immigration, and ESG initiatives. Putin's decision to invade Ukraine may have singlehandedly saved the West. Not sure if the decision was motivated by Putin's alleged declining health, his over confidence given Russia's past successes, or miscalculation of the resolve within Ukraine or weakness of the West, but whatever his decision was based on, I think it's pretty clear at this point it was huge tactical error.
MeatDr
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AG
Photos of Moskva finally emerging.

MeatDr
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aggiehawg
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MeatDr said:


Right under those launch tubes? That is what it looks like to me.
MeatDr
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MeatDr
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Just FYI, the date posted on the original tweet is the 15th, and the Moskva sank on the 14th. The guy who posted it acknowledged the error a few tweets later and said it is from the 14th.
MeatDr
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Charpie
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I'm wondering why you think that?
aggiehawg
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Charpie said:

I'm wondering why you think that?
Think what? Open the pictures in a new tab and click to make them larger. Where the fires are located appear to me to be located fore and under where the launchers were positioned.

If I am wrong, would welcome to make a correction.
GAC06
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Most of the smoke in that picture is coming out of the superstructure that contained the exhaust stacks. Just aft of that is the S-300 style SAM's that launch vertically from in the deck. The huge anti ship missiles in canisters are forward, on either side of the bridge and tallest radar mast.

ATX_AG_08
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ATX_AG_08
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bonfarr
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Even if they had been able to tow that tub into port I imagine it was a total loss. The only gain by the recovery would be their pride in it not sinking.
TRM
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PA24
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Yikes I stand corrected.

Had it backwards.

AgBQ-00
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Listing pretty hard to port and looks to be down a little at the bow. The stern looks to be raised just a bit. Smoke is obscuring the bow pretty good but the radar dome and the heli-pad and the super structure behind where the life boats were all look to be the same boat to me.
You do not have a soul. You are a soul that has a body.

We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
MeatDr
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AgLA06
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It appears all the external missiles are gone. At first I assumed they exploded, buy no way that ship stays afloat if that happens. Did they jettison the pods after getting hit?
Waffledynamics
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Mariupol's mostly lost at this point. Look at how much they have. Picture is a screenshot from LiveUaMap.

Red Pear Realty
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AgBQ-00
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Red Pear Realty said:




They have no bench behind these guys. These purges are going to make things worse for them. I don't see how this is not a quagmire for them for years to come
You do not have a soul. You are a soul that has a body.

We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
Waffledynamics
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AgBQ-00 said:

Red Pear Realty said:




They have no bench behind these guys.
How do you know this? I'd be shocked if they're not being replaced.
AgBQ-00
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Just some interviews from people like Zeihan and a couple of others in that group. They have talked about how the leadership in place does not have much depth behind them. They go into the politics of the Russian military basically being a culling operation of anyone who grows too popular/powerful
You do not have a soul. You are a soul that has a body.

We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
Jetpilot86
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I think he means the quality of the bench is so bad, their might as well not be one.
GAC06
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AgLA06 said:

It appears all the external missiles are gone. At first I assumed they exploded, buy no way that ship stays afloat if that happens. Did they jettison the pods after getting hit?


I can see the shapes of the missiles through the smoke. Can't tell much else about them with the smoke in the way though
MeatDr
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Fun thread on Ukraine taking the initiative in the Donbas. 2nd tweet is hilarious, but overall it's a serious thread.


Unroll: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1515809018853396492.html
AgLA06
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GAC06 said:

AgLA06 said:

It appears all the external missiles are gone. At first I assumed they exploded, buy no way that ship stays afloat if that happens. Did they jettison the pods after getting hit?


I can see the shapes of the missiles through the smoke. Can't tell much else about them with the smoke in the way though


Yah, I didn't realize how far back the photo was taken and how much was obscured by smoke.
richardag
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aggiehawg said:


Hoping this ordinance is successfully used by Ukraines against Russian combatants.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
CondensedFogAggie
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Man without a navy destroys Russian flagship. I'd say that's worth a promotion.
CondensedFogAggie
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ATX_AG_08 said:


Just based on the photo, it seems like there was enough time for a significant portion of the survivors to evacuate? The seas don't look really rough either.
bonfarr
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Waffledynamics said:

AgBQ-00 said:

Red Pear Realty said:




They have no bench behind these guys.
How do you know this? I'd be shocked if they're not being replaced.


Would you want to be the guy to replace these Senior Officers that are getting locked up in a Gulag for failing? That's just a little more pressure than usual I would think.
CondensedFogAggie
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The above wreckage from today is the 12th shot down by the Ukes.
Quote:

In Kharkiv region, Ukrainian defenders used an ordinary Igla portable air defense missile system to down a Russian Ka-52 helicopter worth $15 million.

"At night, enemy helicopters went very low. They circled over our positions, not even allowing us to raise our heads.

And an anti-aircraft gunner fired two missiles on them. One, however, hit a heat trap, and the other shot down a Ka-53. It fell.

We did not want to waste a Stinger on them, so the Russian Ka-52 helicopter was shot down with an ordinary Igla"

the Operational Command "East" posted on Facebook, Ukrinform reports.

FYI the KA-52 is Russias answer to our Apache attach choppers, and one of the deadliest in their arsenal.
Jetpilot86
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Not sure of the timeframe, but a moderate fast moving storm would calm down some. Even so that's almost glassy seas there.

Keep in mind, the storm was also supposed to be partial cover for the attack.
Waffledynamics
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bonfarr said:

Waffledynamics said:

AgBQ-00 said:

Red Pear Realty said:




They have no bench behind these guys.
How do you know this? I'd be shocked if they're not being replaced.


Would you want to be the guy to replace these Senior Officers that are getting locked up in a Gulag for failing? That's just a little more pressure than usual I would think.
I can't imagine the replacements get a say in the matter.
Waffledynamics
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Really fascinating thread, and the activity shown on LiveUAMap seems to maybe corroborate the Ukrainian attempt to encircle Izyum. I just hope that isn't a fool's errand.

For those with more knowledge than I have: wouldn't Ukrainians attempting to encircle Russians in the Donbas be a very risky move for the part of the encirclement closest to Russia? The Russian supply chains are a lot shorter in this area, and they'll be any to reinforce troops and supplies more easily there.
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