What else are we going to do with them?Stat Monitor Repairman said:Quote:
place them at the disposal of the US government.
***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]
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Last: 23 min ago by 74OA
This makes no sense. Give them to us and fly them to Germany. Then the US gives them to the Ukes who have to fly them from Germany to Ukraine? The Migs still have to transit Polish airspace. How does this make any sense? whatsoever?aggiehawg said:So we get their MiGs for free but they pay us for our "used" equipment? And Poland is encouraging other NATO nations with MiGs to do the same?TRM said:🚩Poland agrees to deploy all of its Mig-29 jets to the Rammstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the US government.https://t.co/xqkfjiiKI4 pic.twitter.com/neWssq3XA4
— Michael A. Horowitz (@michaelh992) March 8, 2022
ETA: https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statement-of-the-minister-of-foreign-affairs-of-the-republic-of-poland-in-connection-with-the-statement-by-the-us-secretary-of-state-on-providing-airplanes-to-ukraine
Then we give the MiGs to Ukraine and Putin won't view that as an escalation?
I don't like this.
Today, unfortunately, many Americans have good reason to fear that they will be victimized if they are unable to protect themselves. And today, no less than in 1791, the Second Amendment guarantees their right to do so. - Justice Samuel Alito 2022
The tank may have had maintenance issue already and or slower to target them than the INF Armor. I can see the targeting screen well enough but I would like to know the time between shots.
The two guys outside will need to change their drawers if still alive. looks like they never knew it was coming.
The two guys outside will need to change their drawers if still alive. looks like they never knew it was coming.
'Yes, we need hands': Kitchen pops up in Ukraine's capital
Can't even begin to imagine the anxiety and depression waiting for your loved ones and reading news. You just have to go out, be with other people, do something to get through the day.Quote:
The field kitchen at a makeshift camp in Ukraine's capital was a hive of activity Monday, giving volunteers a way to contribute to the war effort and providing a much-needed distraction from the harrowing news about Russia's escalating invasion.
A woman identified only as Oksana, whose husband is fighting in the Ukrainian army, said the kitchen duty gives her a way to avoid the latest developments.
"I got information that people need help in the kitchen," she said from the tent village that had sprung up between a multi-story building and a barrier made of stacked tires and sandbags. "I came and asked, and they said: 'Yes, we need hands.' That's it, and we are not sitting and reading terrifying messages on news channels."
Another volunteer at the kitchen, Oleksiy Shevchenko, said: "We are cooking soups, porridge for our military, for civilians and for everyone who needs our help, including hospitals."
Men in camouflage uniforms inspected canned food with messages scrawled on them in black marker.
"Thank you, darlings! We pray for you. God with us!" said one can.
Probably Poland being skittish about an attack. Transfer them to US in Germany and odds are Russia won't do anything to them since they're still buying Russian oil and gas.
Personally not my favorite bit of news. I've seen a lot of loose lips from US Congress, and I'm not sure I trust their judgement to walk that fine line.ATX_AG_08 said:NEW -- #Poland has agreed to deploy *all* of its MiG-29 jets to the U.S. AB at Rammstein, in exchange for "used" U.S. aircraft with equivalent capabilities.
— Charles Lister (@Charles_Lister) March 8, 2022
HUGE news for #Ukraine.https://t.co/KYyZ8B24qz pic.twitter.com/pLlrGW2ziL
It seemed to me that the US wanted the Ukes to have the planes, but NATO, more specifically Poland, was holding out on that.
If we get pulled into a war where we have to deploy troops because we give 29 or whatever the amount of planes to UKR, I personally think that would be critical mistake. I don't want people to score political points, I want wise, tactical decisions. It doesn't really seem like NATO wants to get pulled into a war at this point in time, possibly because they aren't ready, and if we pulled them in, that might be a pretty big tactical error.
They're playing culpability hot-potato. Do you have Ukrainian pilots come pick them up from Rammstein? Do you have NATO pilots pick them up to fly them to Ukraine? Do you do neither and they magically disappear from the tarmac and show up in Ukrainian airspace (queue the aliens meme)?aggiehawg said:What else are we going to do with them?Stat Monitor Repairman said:Quote:
place them at the disposal of the US government.
Yup. I am Cruz guy, but him posting that photo from the zoom with Zelensky about wanting to provide the MiGs to UKR was just a dumbass thing to do.aggiehawg said:So we get their MiGs for free but they pay us for our "used" equipment? And Poland is encouraging other NATO nations with MiGs to do the same?TRM said:🚩Poland agrees to deploy all of its Mig-29 jets to the Rammstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the US government.https://t.co/xqkfjiiKI4 pic.twitter.com/neWssq3XA4
— Michael A. Horowitz (@michaelh992) March 8, 2022
ETA: https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statement-of-the-minister-of-foreign-affairs-of-the-republic-of-poland-in-connection-with-the-statement-by-the-us-secretary-of-state-on-providing-airplanes-to-ukraine
Then we give the MiGs to Ukraine and Putin won't view that as an escalation?
I don't like this.
I don't really trust Congress's ability to walk the line well at all.
Geez….didn't realize Poland still operates the Su-17
Today: volunteers making camouflage netting for soldiers. Apart from the brave service of Ukraine’s soldiers, civilians across the country are doing whatever they can to help in their nation’s defense. pic.twitter.com/kxDtXWl9ZS
— Nolan Peterson (@nolanwpeterson) March 3, 2022
Entire country seems mobilized. Inspiring.
I personally think we should be too. Why the hell would we want to do anything to give Russia any reason to unify?TRM said:
Probably Poland being skittish about an attack. Transfer them to US in Germany and odds are Russia won't do anything to them since they're still buying Russian oil and gas.
Seems to me like right now they are a bit in disarray, even if just a little, and sending MiGs to Ukraine would help them to unify and fortify some resolve.
Feels to me like a shoot yourself in the foot thing to do and not let your enemy hurt themselves.
Why not? They've got a whole host of USAF fighters and bombers at their beck and call.SPSAg05 said:
Geez….didn't realize Poland still operates the Su-17
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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Poland can't be accused of helping Ukraine directly.
BigJim49AustinnowDallas
Newsflash: neither can we. Not with planes anyway.BigJim49 AustinNowDallas said:
Poland can't be accused of helping Ukraine directly.
CondensedFoggyAggie said:Today: volunteers making camouflage netting for soldiers. Apart from the brave service of Ukraine’s soldiers, civilians across the country are doing whatever they can to help in their nation’s defense. pic.twitter.com/kxDtXWl9ZS
— Nolan Peterson (@nolanwpeterson) March 3, 2022
Entire country seems mobilized. Inspiring.
So much of what they're doing is very reminiscent of our war with England.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
So is this how this works? Ukrainian pilots fly the Polish Migs to Ramstein, do a touch and go and proceed to Ukraine?
But we can be if those MiGs end up in Ukraine, which seems like some of our more vocal Senators and Blinken want to do.BigJim49 AustinNowDallas said:
Poland can't be accused of helping Ukraine directly.
We don't. Poles fly MIGs to Ramstein AB.JobSecurity said:
Yeah - how do we get planes from Germany to Ukraine? Seems like a very unnecessary complication
Ukraine then sends pilots to Germany and they fly them into Ukraine with UAF markings already on them.
I assume we will remove any NATO sensitive equipment (IFF, crypto, ect.) beforehand.
How quickly can that be done?74OA said:We don't. Ukraine sends pilots to Germany and they fly them into Ukraine with UAF markings already on them. I assume we will remove any NATO sensitive equipment (IFF, crypto, ect.) beforehand.JobSecurity said:
Yeah - how do we get planes from Germany to Ukraine? Seems like a very unnecessary complication
A day. For all I know, the Poles may do that themselves before flying them to Ramstein AB.aggiehawg said:How quickly can that be done?74OA said:We don't. Ukraine sends pilots to Germany and they fly them into Ukraine with UAF markings already on them. I assume we will remove any NATO sensitive equipment (IFF, crypto, ect.) beforehand.JobSecurity said:
Yeah - how do we get planes from Germany to Ukraine? Seems like a very unnecessary complication
If the thousands of missiles that are blowing up their tanks and shooting down their aircraft haven't "unified" the Russians I'm not sure some fighters will tip the scale
UnrolledTRM said:🧵Just off the phone with an officer from Ukraine's military intelligence service (GUR). Someone I've known now for four years who's often rolled his eyes at official Ukrainian government pronouncements.
— Michael Weiss 🌻🇺🇸🇮🇪 (@michaeldweiss) March 8, 2022
A few observations/comments:
I asked how his spirits were holding up. Answer: "Now is not the time for crying; now is the time for laughing."
He meant at Russia's military performance and its enormous losses in manpower and firepower in the field.
"They have lost far more than they expected. That is why they started peace negotiations on the second day of the war."
"Yesterday, they lost 30 helicopters in the vicinity of Kherson where our marines destroyed them. The government announced this. Frankly speaking, it's true."
"There was also some evidence for the loss of two aircraft in the airspace around Kyiv."
"Our mood: Everything is OK. We are defending our soil, our Motherland. We have nothing to lose. They are conquerors. They are the fascists. And we will win. I have no doubt."
I asked about all the Russian deserters abandoning their undamaged tanks, BTRs, air defense systems. Where did they go and where are they now?
"They fled into the woods. Sometimes they're marodyory [looters, marauders]. Even according to our interceptions we can determine many are robbing civilian houses and occupying them."
"We also have evidence that even when the Russians occupy villages and towns they face resistance. In Kyiv they will meet extremely tough Territorial Defense."
He also confirmed the majority of Ukraine's Air Force is still in tact, on Day 12, including fixed wing and rotary aircraft. I asked how many operational Bayraktar TB2 drones Ukraine has in its arsenal. He laughed. "OK, Michael, can I just say: 'It's enough.'" // END
74OA said:We don't. Poles fly MIGs to Ramstein AB.JobSecurity said:
Yeah - how do we get planes from Germany to Ukraine? Seems like a very unnecessary complication
Ukraine then sends pilots to Germany and they fly them into Ukraine with UAF markings already on them.
I assume we will remove any NATO sensitive equipment (IFF, crypto, ect.) beforehand.
Blinken tried to put the onus on Poland by saying the US was willing to replace Poland's MiGs if Poland were to get rid of the MiGs, and Poland is trying to put the onus back on US and include Germany by transferring the MiGs out of Poland.
It's clear no one wants to be the one left with the responsibly to get the MiGs into Ukraine because they all know Putin will see it as escalation and fear retaliation.
Cruz and Blinken broadcast the play before it happened. We have no plausible deniability at this point if those planes end up in Ukraine and Putin sees it as an escalation.
Yeah thats what I meant. Would like to been a fly on the wall when this idea was floated.
How do you tell where those came from? How do you know what was stock the West provided in the months up to the invasion versus once it started?GAC06 said:
If the thousands of missiles that are blowing up their tanks and shooting down their aircraft haven't "unified" the Russians I'm not sure some fighters will tip the scale
This whole plane deal has been broadcast out in the public, and if the Ukraine AF suddenly increases in stock, pretty easy to tell where they came from.
Not only that, jets can cause so much more damage if utilized properly.
That's the difference in my mind. I think Putin would see it the same way, and message it to his people as such too.
Could always send them to Incirlik and give them to Turkey. Turkey has already supplied drones doing airstrikes currently, what's a few extra MiGs on top of that?Beat40 said:74OA said:We don't. Poles fly MIGs to Ramstein AB.JobSecurity said:
Yeah - how do we get planes from Germany to Ukraine? Seems like a very unnecessary complication
Ukraine then sends pilots to Germany and they fly them into Ukraine with UAF markings already on them.
I assume we will remove any NATO sensitive equipment (IFF, crypto, ect.) beforehand.
Blinken tried to put the onus on Poland by saying the US was willing to replace Poland's MiGs if Poland were to get rid of the MiGs, and Poland is trying to put the onus back on US and include Germany by transferring the MiGs out of Poland.
It's clear no one wants to be the one left with the responsibly to get the MiGs into Ukraine because they all know Putin will see it as escalation and fear retaliation.
Cruz and Blinken broadcast the play before it happened. We have no plausible deniability at this point if those planes end up in Ukraine and Putin sees it as an escalation.
I think they are trying to include as many different parties in this shell game as possible since that would make punitive action by Putin all that much harder.Beat40 said:74OA said:We don't. Poles fly MIGs to Ramstein AB.JobSecurity said:
Yeah - how do we get planes from Germany to Ukraine? Seems like a very unnecessary complication
Ukraine then sends pilots to Germany and they fly them into Ukraine with UAF markings already on them.
I assume we will remove any NATO sensitive equipment (IFF, crypto, ect.) beforehand.
Blinken tried to put the onus on Poland by saying the US was willing to replace Poland's MiGs if Poland were to get rid of the MiGs, and Poland is trying to put the onus back on US and include Germany by transferring the MiGs out of Poland.
It's clear no one wants to be the one left with the responsibly to get the MiGs into Ukraine because they all know Putin will see it as escalation and fear retaliation.
Cruz and Blinken broadcast the play before it happened. We have no plausible deniability at this point if those planes end up in Ukraine and Putin sees it as an escalation.
The shipments of weapons have been well publicized with official announcements and photo documentation. There's no attempt to avoid responsibility. Poland, the US, and NATO in general are going to get blamed if those jets end up in Ukraine.
The logistics of firing two or more tactical nukes instead of one?Quote:
I think they are trying to include as many different parties in this shell game as possible since that would make punitive action by Putin all that much harder.
The count is 3 so far...Poland, Germany, US. Given Russias rate of munitions failure you gotta think Biden is thinking our chances are good!aggiehawg said:The logistics of firing two or more tactical nukes instead of one?Quote:
I think they are trying to include as many different parties in this shell game as possible since that would make punitive action by Putin all that much harder.
WEDNESDAY (NOT THURSDAY) https://t.co/JpozHwCDnb
— *Walter Bloomberg (@DeItaone) March 8, 2022
Well than we should just paint them several different colors starting with Russian & Belarus colors. Given all the captured russian armor on the ground, hand written lat longs on civilian GPS handhelds how will anybody know its not a russian friendly fire incident????javajaws said:I think they are trying to include as many different parties in this shell game as possible since that would make punitive action by Putin all that much harder.Beat40 said:74OA said:We don't. Poles fly MIGs to Ramstein AB.JobSecurity said:
Yeah - how do we get planes from Germany to Ukraine? Seems like a very unnecessary complication
Ukraine then sends pilots to Germany and they fly them into Ukraine with UAF markings already on them.
I assume we will remove any NATO sensitive equipment (IFF, crypto, ect.) beforehand.
Blinken tried to put the onus on Poland by saying the US was willing to replace Poland's MiGs if Poland were to get rid of the MiGs, and Poland is trying to put the onus back on US and include Germany by transferring the MiGs out of Poland.
It's clear no one wants to be the one left with the responsibly to get the MiGs into Ukraine because they all know Putin will see it as escalation and fear retaliation.
Cruz and Blinken broadcast the play before it happened. We have no plausible deniability at this point if those planes end up in Ukraine and Putin sees it as an escalation.
U.S. believes that Russia’s northern advance on Kyiv remains “stalled” including a miles-long convoy of tanks, armored vehicles, and artillery that has been halted by Ukrainian attacks and bridge demolitions: senior U.S. defense official
— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) March 8, 2022
As the days go by, I think it's safe to say that Putin already has plenty of excuses to accuse the West of escalating things...the weapons NATO countries have supplied alone could easily be construed as escalation...
But so far, all Putin has done is bluster and threaten...
He knows he's battling the West in Ukraine already, and I don't think he was prepared for that, and frankly, I think he see's himself as stuck now...
But so far, all Putin has done is bluster and threaten...
He knows he's battling the West in Ukraine already, and I don't think he was prepared for that, and frankly, I think he see's himself as stuck now...
Ha ha! Normally I'm all for black humor but this is making me nervous as these responses/provocations/response to provocation cycle keeps spiraling faster and faster everyday.javajaws said:The count is 3 so far...Poland, Germany, US. Given Russias rate of munitions failure you gotta think Biden is thinking our chances are good!aggiehawg said:The logistics of firing two or more tactical nukes instead of one?Quote:
I think they are trying to include as many different parties in this shell game as possible since that would make punitive action by Putin all that much harder.
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