It's saying they won't join NATO

Irish 2.0 said:

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It's saying they won't join NATO

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And probably the European Union also.

I don't see Ukraine giving up the option of joining EU and NATO after going through all of this. Crimea was gifted to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 50's so I could see that being part of a deal. I also don't believe Putin would ever agree to give Crimea up.

I don't know enough about the separatist areas in Eastern Ukraine. I think it depends on the demographics of the population. If most of the population in those areas are ethnic Russians versus Ukrainians, it will be better in the long term for Ukraine to cede them to do a deal. They could propose granting them independence with the hope of potentially getting them back down the road if they don't get annexed by Russia.

I think the terms of the deal will work out as follows:

• Ukraine recognizes Crimea as Russian. There may be some options on setting the border between Crimea and Ukraine.
• Russia withdraws from all occupied territory.
• Ukraine agrees with granting independence to separatist areas.
• Ukraine gets some manner of financial reparations for damages. This will only happen if the West makes it a condition for dropping economic sanctions on Russians.

All of this is predicated on the Russians remaining bogged down militarily.

Going forward, I think the surviving Ukraine will be granted EU membership and get some kind of EU "Marshall" plan to rebuild and integrate with the EU. I expect NATO membership will be discussed after EU integration.

3rd and 2 said:

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Just keep going until Russia implodes

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We've cut off Iran and North Korea from the world and they haven't imploded. Especially since China is supporting Russia, the collapse of Russian society isn't going to happen.

For D and L and the Crimea, I would insist upon a plebiscite (conducted by international monitors). Let them choose.

The Kremlin is in no place to make any demands when Russia is getting their teeth kicked in. I wouldn't give up anything but maybe their dead and POWs if they retreat at this point. Either that or continue getting your asses kicked.

The only way Russia wins this war is if they go nuke and that isn't happening. Putin needs to step down or put a 9mm to his own head.

I don't know. If I'm Ukraine, maybe I'm taking this deal. It's a deal that Putin could spin as a W, and gives him an off ramp that's short of a red button situation. Like another poster said, this is likely Putin is dead sooner rather than later. Ride it out, stop the slaughter and shelling, and live to fight another day.

For so many Russians killed and captured, smaller percent of collateral damage. Also, CNN is reporting tanks on the outskirt of Kiev and can be seen by apartment dwellers in Kiev. A cease fire to let the locals exit the larger cities currently or maybe not, just don't know.

Fox is asking who will Russia invade next. Texags quoting sites basically saying Russia is whipped.

Fogs of war, I know but I don't know who to believe.

I would agree. Just because the war "ends" doesn't mean that the flow of weapons and supplies stops. This gives them breathing room for fortify. They don't have to be a member of the EU or NATO to keep getting gifted "those wonderful toys."

Ag In Ok said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST AMEND CONSTITUTION AND REJECT CLAIMS TO ENTER ANY BLOC

UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES

IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’ - SPOKESMAN

— *Walter Bloomberg (@DeItaone) March 7, 2022

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Umm, that's it?

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I think that's what the Russians have been offering this whole time. The Ukrainians, justifiably, don't want to give up any territory especially Crimea. I don't see the Ukrainians ever accepting terms that takes away their territory unless they are beaten.

video of Uks attacking russian warship

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2022/03/07/3484968625859310928/960x540_MP4_3484968625859310928.mp4

rgag12 said:

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3rd and 2 said:

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Just keep going until Russia implodes

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We've cut off Iran and North Korea from the world and they haven't imploded. Especially since China is supporting Russia, the collapse of Russian society isn't going to happen.

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They might start having different regions start splitting off.

3rd and 2 said:

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rgag12 said:

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3rd and 2 said:

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Just keep going until Russia implodes

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We've cut off Iran and North Korea from the world and they haven't imploded. Especially since China is supporting Russia, the collapse of Russian society isn't going to happen.

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They might start having different regions start splitting off.

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NoKo and Iran are both desperately poor smallish countries (population wise) ruled with an iron fist. Russia is a much bigger step child that the CCP doesn't want to finance long term, imho. Not an economic superpower by any stretch, but still...

rgag12 said:

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3rd and 2 said:

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Just keep going until Russia implodes

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We've cut off Iran and North Korea from the world and they haven't imploded. Especially since China is supporting Russia, the collapse of Russian society isn't going to happen.

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Uh have you looked at a run of the mill visual night time satellite pic of NK. By global standards that is an imploded place. And How many North Koreans have starved in the last 20 years? Some estimations are in the hundreds of thousands.

The game is still early on Iran. They fought a nation we defeated in 15 days, Iraq 2003, to a 10 year blood soaked standstill- 1980's.

I guess "imploded" means different things to different people. You seem to have low standards in this regard.

rgag12 said:

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3rd and 2 said:

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Just keep going until Russia implodes

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We've cut off Iran and North Korea from the world and they haven't imploded. Especially since China is supporting Russia, the collapse of Russian society isn't going to happen.

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Collapse, no, but there's a reason there's a lot of crying coming from Russia right now, and I'm pretty sure it has to do with what we're having done to them.

So will they go the way of the do-do bird, of course not, but they're not like people in North Korea who've never had a taste of the western life, and obviously they're not celebrating what's happening that's taking them back to the "good old days of mother Russia".

Oh hell no to those. Keep stacking Russian bodies

OKC~Ag said:

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supposed Rusian war ship in flames

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*UNCONFIRMED*

Ukraine is claiming that they sank the Vasily Bykov, one of Russia's new Project 22160 patrol ships. Only been in service since December 2018.

Red Pear Realty said:

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And this map shows that there easily could have been that many helicopters there to have been destroyed. Also this was one of the very first airfields seized by the Russians. Good for the Ukes.

Kherson airfield is a large helicopter landing site even before the current war. Within a possibility that the news are true. pic.twitter.com/qWS89m78v0

— Torbjörn Hederoxe af Djupsjöbacka (@hederoxe) March 7, 2022

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In total last night at 10.27 Zulu Time, there were around 49 helicopters at the Kherson Air Base https://t.co/ka3L924jii

— Konrad Muzyka - Rochan Consulting (@konrad_muzyka) March 7, 2022

Red Pear Realty said:

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PJYoung said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST AMEND CONSTITUTION AND REJECT CLAIMS TO ENTER ANY BLOC

UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES

IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’ - SPOKESMAN

— *Walter Bloomberg (@DeItaone) March 7, 2022

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Wow!

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Wanna know how I know the Russians are losing and will lose this war? Oh and the economic sanctions haven't really even kicked in yet.

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Yep, this is Putin's "off ramp". He can tell the public, "see, 8 saved those people and Russia is now greater than ever for it thanks to me."

F'k that p*to. Let it all burn down around him until someone takes him out like the rabid little b*tch dog that he is.

OKC~Ag said:

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supposed Rusian war ship in flames

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Didn't we see this same pic several days ago?

Putin is a chess player. He knows the gig is up with this "military operation." He will have Zelensky assassinated someway somehow and year or two down the road.

Yup. If they are giving up that much, they need to keep pushing. **** Putin.

Viva Ukraine

ttu_85 said:

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rgag12 said:

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3rd and 2 said:

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Just keep going until Russia implodes

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We've cut off Iran and North Korea from the world and they haven't imploded. Especially since China is supporting Russia, the collapse of Russian society isn't going to happen.

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Uh have you looked at a run of the mill visual night time satellite pic of NK. By global standards that is an imploded place. And How many North Koreans have starved in the last 20 years? Some estimations are in the hundreds of thousands.

The game is still early on Iran. They fought a nation we defeated in 15 days, Iraq 2003, to a 10 year blood soaked standstill- 1980's.

I guess "imploded" means different things to different people. You seem to have low standards in this regard.

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Uhhh I don't seem to have noticed any successful revolutions overthrowing the government in any of those countries, which what implode means.

If your definition of implode means that Russians won't be able to watch porn, watch Netflix, or drive a new BMW then yea I guess it's going to implode?