Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
Ag8556 said:
If the Ukranians have the fight in them, they will move their official government farther west if Kiev is taken and continue fighting. The longer this drags out, the worse it is for Putin. There will be a morale hit to the Russians if the Ukranians drag this out after Kiev falls and are able to continue fighting.
will25u said:
So if it is true that the Russian military is undisciplined enough to fight, and are easily routed....
That is a bad look.
Seeing multiple reports of Russian military just leaving equipment and running. Ouch.
74OA said:Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
rgag12 said:74OA said:Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
I'm not a warfare expert, but if the Russians were in a position to encircle the city, the government would probably flee. Once the government flees, you'd think the organization of significant resistance would be hard, and the morale of the people would take a hit.
Also it wouldn't be strategically imperative for the Russians to take the city center. They could lay siege and wait for most, if not all resistance to crumble.
All sorts of scenarios come to mind including those in which the government stays in Kiev and fights it out, or relocates west while leaving a strong stay-behind force in Kiev to engage in urban warfare, or both government and military leave to fight it out in the west, as just a few examples.rgag12 said:74OA said:Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
I'm not a warfare expert, but if the Russians were in a position to encircle the city, the government would probably flee. Once the government flees, you'd think the organization of significant resistance would be hard, and the morale of the people would take a hit.
Also it wouldn't be strategically imperative for the Russians to take the city center. They could lay siege and wait for most, if not all resistance to crumble.
I would think that the type of resistance being discussed would have been prepared in advance for the the occasion of the government having to flee. I've read a few articles over the last month about the resistance training for civilians.rgag12 said:74OA said:Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
I'm not a warfare expert, but if the Russians were in a position to encircle the city, the government would probably flee. Once the government flees, you'd think the organization of significant resistance would be hard, and the morale of the people would take a hit.
Also it wouldn't be strategically imperative for the Russians to take the city center. They could lay siege and wait for most, if not all resistance to crumble.
GarryowenAg said:
If faced with a superior force, I would want to splinter into platoon sized elements, decentralize command, and harass soft targets at will. Bleed them dry.
Ag8556 said:
I don't think the Russians are that great with logistics. The farther the Russians are pulled into Ukraine, the easier it will be for irregulars to attack resupply convoys coming in from the north towards Kiev. This is all predicated on the Ukes military not disintegrating.
jabberwalkie09 said:rgag12 said:74OA said:Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
I'm not a warfare expert, but if the Russians were in a position to encircle the city, the government would probably flee. Once the government flees, you'd think the organization of significant resistance would be hard, and the morale of the people would take a hit.
Also it wouldn't be strategically imperative for the Russians to take the city center. They could lay siege and wait for most, if not all resistance to crumble.
At that theoretical point, how would the current government flee?
Exactly. Plus, the Ukrainian government has a formal plan for irregular resistance. Fighting Ondc509 said:I would think that the type of resistance being discussed would have been prepared in advance for the the occasion of the government having to flee. I've read a few articles over the last month about the resistance training for civilians.rgag12 said:74OA said:Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
I'm not a warfare expert, but if the Russians were in a position to encircle the city, the government would probably flee. Once the government flees, you'd think the organization of significant resistance would be hard, and the morale of the people would take a hit.
Also it wouldn't be strategically imperative for the Russians to take the city center. They could lay siege and wait for most, if not all resistance to crumble.
GarryowenAg said:
If faced with a superior force, I would want to splinter into platoon sized elements, decentralize command, and harass soft targets at will. Bleed them dry.
rgag12 said:jabberwalkie09 said:rgag12 said:74OA said:Kiev is an urban sprawl of 3M people. If the Ukrainians want, they can bloody the Russians in street fighting for a long time, despite being encircled.LMCane said:jabberwalkie09 said:nortex97 said:
Not keeping up with this thread but interesting if true. I'd think Kiev is a critical city to hold if Ukraine does in fact mount a protracted defense.This is the map as of now. https://t.co/g9FdDxclUC
— Wilfred Reilly (@wil_da_beast630) February 24, 2022
If true, it looks like the Ukrainians -dare I say- have put up a fight and limited the spread of Russians.
I think someone was telling me earlier that there was no fight in the Ukrainians, Russians were spreading like wildfire, and the country would fall in short order.
US officials claiming Kyiv will fall in another 70 hours
Kyiv Falls
I'm not a warfare expert, but if the Russians were in a position to encircle the city, the government would probably flee. Once the government flees, you'd think the organization of significant resistance would be hard, and the morale of the people would take a hit.
Also it wouldn't be strategically imperative for the Russians to take the city center. They could lay siege and wait for most, if not all resistance to crumble.
At that theoretical point, how would the current government flee?
At a certain point before the enemy reaches you, you know your forces are retreating and the enemy is about to encircle you. The government at that point, if they chose, would flee probably by air or by road to the west.
Central Committee said:
Given how mechanized the Russian army is, I expected Russia to have at least a third of the country east of Kiev by now, though it is a sizable country, about the area of Texas.
Not sure if they are slowed by the Ukrainian army or by their own equipment.
jabberwalkie09 said:will25u said:
So if it is true that the Russian military is undisciplined enough to fight, and are easily routed....
That is a bad look.
Seeing multiple reports of Russian military just leaving equipment and running. Ouch.
Russia has forced conscription. With Russia's military adventures in more recent years, I'm not terribly surprised. I don't think there's as much belief in Russia as there was in "the cause" in the USSR.
Just my 2 cents.
NEW: Russia has assembled troops, armor, artillery, and more than 50 heavy equipment transporters a training area in Brest, near the Polish border.
— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) February 24, 2022
Russia has also added more equipment at a nearby railyard in Belarus.
📷:@Maxar pic.twitter.com/H2SDzWQDPP
Разбитые российские МТ-ЛБ и ЗРК "Тор" на выезде из Крыма, 24/02/22 https://t.co/VldiCbFdJn pic.twitter.com/J09g3HOAFR
— Necro Mancer (@666_mancer) February 24, 2022
VitruvianAg said:
Been dealing with work today, have only scanned this thread....Saw the Ukes recaptured the Airport.
What's up with the air war have the Russkies achieved Air Superiority? Pretty sure the Ukes Aerospace program is no lightweight.
ABATTBQ11 said:
Should blow it all up in self defense. Anytime Russia puts military equipment near your border it's just a matter of time...
Rossticus said:NEW: Russia has assembled troops, armor, artillery, and more than 50 heavy equipment transporters a training area in Brest, near the Polish border.
— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) February 24, 2022
Russia has also added more equipment at a nearby railyard in Belarus.
📷:@Maxar pic.twitter.com/H2SDzWQDPP
jabberwalkie09 said:Rossticus said:NEW: Russia has assembled troops, armor, artillery, and more than 50 heavy equipment transporters a training area in Brest, near the Polish border.
— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) February 24, 2022
Russia has also added more equipment at a nearby railyard in Belarus.
📷:@Maxar pic.twitter.com/H2SDzWQDPP
Every CAS pilot is probably looking at that and salivating.
…..and inspire the populace to keep fighting. RESISTJayhawk said:
The Ukrainians have absorbed the initial shock of invasion day. They have acquitted themselves well and inflicted a toll on the invader.
The most important thing now is not the volume or even quality of their engagements with the Russians, it is to keep an army in the field. If they can keep a regular Ukrainian force in the field, then ANY successful counterattack, no matter how militarily insignificant, will be electrifying to the whole world and provide a jolt to morale for the irregular fighters as that fight begins to materialize. The West can help the Ukrainians by amplifying the signal of any military success, regardless of significance. The will to fight is the center of gravity. The heroic defenders in the Ukrainian armed forces have given their country a fighting chance so far, at great cost to themselves.
Taking an even more macro perspective, even if the Ukrainian soldiers all go down swinging and were to lose this fight, their heroism will provide a foundation for the Ukrainian national identity to reassert itself in the future based on the deeds of their martyrs, e.g. the Irish rebellion of 1798 (to name one) .. they didn't win in their own day, but their descendants were still singing songs about them when they finally evicted the brits over a century later.
