***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

7,580,498 Views | 47794 Replies | Last: 23 hrs ago by OldAg68
Smeghead4761
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ATX_AG_08 said:

That's nuts. They wreck out bad. Fatalities certain




Russian/Soviet APCs and IFVs are actually pretty lightly armored. When I was in the Infantry Officer Basic Course back in 1996, we were taught that 7.62 NATO AP ammo could punch holes in BTRs, at least from the sides. .50 cal AP will put holes in BMPs, although not reliably from the front because of how sloped the armor is.

My first platoon sergeant in my first unit was a Gulf War vet. He told me that they stopped firing 25mm sabot ammo at the BMPs, because it would just blow right through without much effect, unless it hit something solid inside. They used HE instead.

U.S. troops in Vietnam did the same thing with the M113, and for the same reason. The armor quite often will not stop rounds from getting in, but it will keep them from going back out.
PJYoung
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AG
This thread talks about how the Russians developed their IFVs for nuclear war, not conventional.

GarryowenAg
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AG
GarryowenAg
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AG
AgBQ-00
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AG
GarryowenAg said:


How about the black sea fleet gets sunk then the grain is safe from interference.
AgLA06
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AG
Or get the black sea fleet the hell out of their country or else and NATO will continue to escort the grain.
AgLA06
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AG
Quote:








The answer is parades. Russia and North Korea are trying to win the award for most useless junk that makes the prettiest parade floats.
MouthBQ98
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AG
They need the mobility. They have armor of a sort but they were also designed in an era before tungsten core bullets in military ammunition and artillery shells with engineered shrapnel patterns and such effective precision guided munitions and by a military that planned for losses with an overwhelming numbers strategy.

They were armored enough at the time to give the soldiers sufficient morale and confidence going into a battle in the 60's and 70's.

Newer models up rated the arms and mobility but placed armor a more distant third.

Even more important: most Russian armored infantry. Vehicles were designed to be amphibious with the obvious weight per volume limitations, so they could ford rivers with relatively little preparation. That really limits the weight of armor on them.
74OA
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AG
Ukraine was recently connected to the EU energy grid and can both send and receive electricity.



More on repairing Ukraine's electricity grid. 12 DONORS
txags92
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AG
As long as the black sea fleet is being used to lob cruise missiles at Ukrainian civilian targets, there can be no deal to assure their safety. Once they are all safely at the bottom of the sea, maybe the Ukrainians can work out a deal to protect them as underwater museums.
Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Rossticus
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74OA
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AG
Rossticus said:



As I understand it, that's misleading as six of those NASAMS units have to be built first. The US only has 2-3 NASAMS and those are used to defend DC, so we aren't donating them, for sure.

Instead of making Ukraine wait, I'm still puzzled why we didn't work a swap in which Norway immediately sent some of its NASAMS to Ukraine and the US then backfills Norway with new units.
AgLA06
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AG
Probably because of the same reasons we don't want to give ours up. Except they're much closer to Russia.
74OA
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AG
Rossticus said:


More on the VAMPIRE.
Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Conscription and mobilization are over. We now begin draft. Once draft over, maybe mobilize again?

MouthBQ98
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AG
What is up with the fatalistic self delusion over there? Communism has had a terrible lasting effect of a culture of willful denial of reality.
aggiehawg
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AG
Rossticus said:


Am I dumb for thinking that concrete pillboxes will just be easy targets for missiles and artillery?
Rossticus
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I also have my doubts that they're terribly substantial.
Rossticus
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Russia: "We will not use nukes"
Also Russia: "We will definitely use nukes"

Rossticus
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Lol. This is a parody account but it made me laugh so thought I'd post.

AgBQ-00
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AG
No you are not. On a modern battle field they are just neon signs that say concentration of enemy forces here.
DOG XO 84
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AG
Rossticus said:

I also have my doubts that they're terribly substantial.
These are remarkably similar to the slightly used deer blind I picked up near Hamilton in August.
aggiehawg
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AG
AgBQ-00 said:

No you are not. On a modern battle field they are just neon signs that say concentration of enemy forces here.
What I was thinking, that they would just provide the Ukes more bang for their buck in Russian KIA.
Rossticus
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AgBQ-00 said:

No you are not. On a modern battle field they are just neon signs that say concentration of enemy forces here.


Even during WW2 those things were typically at least a few feet thick to hold up to the artillery pounding they took. Those are little more than concrete cardboard boxes. Protection from small arms fire and that's about it. Cope Crates, if you will.
TexasAggie_02
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AG
Rossticus said:

Lol. This is a parody account but it made me laugh so thought I'd post.


wow, guess he will have a "fall" soon
Rossticus
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LMCane
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Rossticus said:


watch our amazingly strong Maginot Line defenses be transported by light truck!!

only the best defenses against MLRS and satellite guided weaponry!!
txags92
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AG
Easy target for a sniper too. Just pop a round into anything that moves in the window.
LMCane
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MouthBQ98 said:

What is up with the fatalistic self delusion over there? Communism has had a terrible lasting effect of a culture of willful denial of reality.
Stalin literally prohibited any Soviet reconnaissance flights over German territory in June 1941 in order not to give Hitler an excuse to invade Russia!
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