tysker said:

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TxAgswin said:

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tysker said:

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There are many lower case 'l' liberals on this board. Classical liberalism is still the basis of the American experiment and it is more under attack now by the progressive left than it was during the late 90s by the religious right.

Removing government's infantilization of the people would resolve many of your concerns. The scope creep and institutionalism of government should be the main focus of your dissent.

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I agree with all of that 100%.

Side comment, the evangelical right has lost all credibility.

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The progressive left are the new evangelical right

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No!!! they are the old Bolsheviks. And how many did they kill from 1905 - 1929? 20 million +

TxAgswin said:

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Am I the only liberal that posts on this board?

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Define liberal.

• Believe in civil liberties
• Believe one should be judged by character not skin color
• Believe in the Constitution
• Believe court system should be fair and treat people equally

You might actually be a conservative.

JCA1 said:

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taxpreparer said:

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I disagree. Healthcare is a right, just not an enumerated. The government does not supply our rights, it is prohibited from denying you access. Your second amendment rights do not require the government to furnish you a gun.

UHC is not the same as a right to healthcare.

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Then I guess I don't get the point. Anyone is free to purchase health care right now.

Are you simply saying the government cannot deny or curtail your ability to procure health care that you want to purchase?

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I am saying the government does not give us our rights. It do not (should not) tell us what we can say, dictate religious beliefs, provide weapons for our use, or our healthcare. If we rely on it to do so, then those are not rights, they are privileges.

Todd 02 said:

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Curious if the OP would provide their age and profession?

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I asked regarding profession on page 2, albeit in the middle of the night.

To follow up, I asked because I am curious about what OP does and how he forms his beliefs, as if all of us don't believe in dignity and fairness.

I also inquire because I have spent over 15 years working with "at-risk youth,"-really, juveniles who had yet to be caught for their crimes-and their families. I spent 4.5 years working at a juvenile prison. And I further spent over 2 decades working with "those that can't take care of themselves."

Here's what I think makes my experience even more relevant, I have done this work literally across the country from Hawaii, to North Carolina, and now California where I am in a position to get perspective on the the entire state.

[Edit: I'm adding the following because it gave me greater understanding then all of my training and work experience combined-we spent more years than I have liked living with criminals. To be clear, so as to avoid a lengthy explanation, it culminated in a SWAT raid. Meaning, the house I was raising my children in, a unit separate from the main home whose residents engaged in all manner of criminal activity, was raided by SWAT.]

What I observed regarding, what I shall call the state of our society, was occurring in a small island in the middle of the Pacific, in the mountains of Appalachia, and throughout California.

So, I ask two simple, clarifying questions, why do you think people are in jail? Who are the people you are defining as unable to care for themselves?

I don't know when I will return to this thread as my family has a busy day, so I will conclude with two excellent works that reflect my own experience. Their words far eclipse anything I might write here anyway.

What I have observed in working with the above populations is much the same as what Theodore Dalrymple wrote about in England.



Having spent much of my life working with what I imagine OP defines as "those who can't take care of themselves," I have found James Bartholomew's The Welfare of Nations to accurately describe what I was seeing.

The problem with "universal healthcare" as defined by the leftist progressives is it becomes a completely government run institution. Currently if you are poor get sick you can go to a county hospital and receive healthcare. Not perfect, but one hell of a lot better than what "universal healthcare" has become in other countries. Many of the problems currently with our healthcare system today are a result of government intervention in both the healthcare system and insurance system.

As we have been witnessing, any government run bureaucracy can and eventually will be used by a dominant political party as a weapon. Today, as we discuss this, the Democratic Party leadership is proposing denying healthcare to people not vaccinated. The IRS, FBI, NSA, FISA Courts and more have been weaponized by the Democratic Party leadership.

edit grammar

TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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You know what's crazy the vast majority of what you listed are not liberal ideals. As a conservative I value many of the same things you do. The only difference is how we believe our goals can be achieved.

I know for a fact that the govt is not the answer liberals believe it is.

I don't mind liberals as long as they can recognize the facts and be honest about the facts. Differences of opinion are normal, but quit spinning with falsehoods. And before someone says something, yes it works for everybody.

This thread is proof that our differences are irreconcilable at this point. Every system that OP mentioned has been absolutely *******ized by liberal policies and yet, in his mind, all we need is more.

At this point, it's time we realize some people are just beyond help.

richardag said:

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The problem with "universal healthcare" as defined by the leftist progressives is it becomes a completely government run institution. Currently if you are poor get sick you can go to a county hospital and receive healthcare. Not perfect, but one hell of a lot better than what "universal healthcare" has become in other countries. Many of the problems currently with our healthcare system today is a result of government intervention in both the healthcare system and insurance system.

As we have been witnessing, any government run bureaucracy can and eventually will be used by a dominant political party as a weapon. Today, as we discuss this, the Democratic Party leadership is proposing denying healthcare to people not vaccinated. The IRS, FBI, NSA, FISA Courts and more have been weaponized by the Democratic Party leadership.

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This is a great point! I'll be the first to admit that healthcare in America is pretty ****ed up!

But, most of the folks that want "universal healthcare" don't understand why the healthcare industry is ****ed up. So they just peddle the argument that healthcare should be free (i.e. subsidized by the government).

Here's why "free healthcare" won't work:

We already subsidize healthcare in Texas via government assessed and collected property taxes. Yet, there isn't enough money to pay for it. Why? Because of health insurance! Uninsured patients often can't pay for services, therefore the hospital must cover the costs. To do that, they must increase costs for services provided to those that do pay to cover the costs for those who don't. Enter private insurance companies, who "negotiate" (heavy-handedly) for lower costs for those services.

Simply put, with revenue from services provided and taxes collected, hospitals often barely cover expenses.

For "universal healthcare" to even be a possibility, you'd have to kill the health insurance industry. I'd be all for that, since it would likely lower healthcare costs across the board. Politicians aren't going to allow that. The industry and it's lobby are far too rich and powerful. In fact, politicians doubled down under Obamacare by mandating that everyone have insurance. Why? Because if everyone has insurance, the insurance industry controls the healthcare industry. They control the premiums and out-of-pocket costs YOU pay and they control what healthcare providers are paid. The politicians get their kick-backs, the insurance company effectively launders the money, and the "rich keep getting richer". (Which is not want the poor truly want, but they're not educated enough in the process to understand that's what's happening, so they keep voting for politicians who promise "free healthcare".)

The other reason you can't cancel the health insurance industry is that it has become a fringe benefit of employment; as a result of government intervention in wages, I might add. Remember, the government doesn't want us to work for a living. They want us to be on their dole. And they punish the workers by taxing the hell out of us.

So instead of fixing the problem, politicians vilify the employed, as well as healthcare professionals and providers, based on class-warfare. The implication is that workers are given "free healthcare" because they work for employers who provide "free health insurance". So, if I don't work or I work a part-time, minimum-wage job, I can't get employer-provided health insurance, and therefore can't get healthcare. Or I can't get the same healthcare that rich people who work get.

And the simple facts are...you don't need insurance to get healthcare AND health insurance =/= healthcare. If the general public understood that much, the whole "universal healthcare" push would die.

ETA: Forgot to include federal healthcare insurance programs that ALSO subsidize the healthcare industry...that are collected as an additional tax from wage-earners.

Is OP ready to admit that the dems stole the election, or just offer spin?

You made many statements in your response to why you are a liberal. My level of opposition varies, but I disagree with just about everything you said.

As an example, John Adams would have believed education was reading, writing and arithmetic. He held no ability to even conceive of CRT, gender studies or the like. The person that cannot see that CRT is ruining our country, is cut from the same cloth as the person that could not see that slavery or Jim Crow were ruining our country.

Our focus must be complete pre-K to PhD education reform, not pouring more money / fuel on our current raging education fire of cultural destruction.

TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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You do realize you are required to pay taxes that support the fire department. Sure they're not billing you after they put out the fire cause you've already paid.

Is any liberal argument rooted in reality?

Stopped reading when she said conservatives are to blame for the criminal system? What other country has a better system .

This why you can't take liberals seriously they spew such nonsense

TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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Gee, maybe, just maybe, minorities are more likely to be economically disadvantaged (for various reasons) and the economically disadvantaged are more likely to commit crimes and become incarcerated? Maybe just maybe it's not because police hate black people?

Do you think minorities should get a pass when they commit crimes because of their skin?

Do you think the justice system should treat whites more harshly to make up for your perceived racial unfairness?

What I just described is the only way you're going to get an inmate population that mimics the population distribution of different races.

It's so incredibly simple minded to assume that everything that happens to minorities is because of racism, but we are talking about liberals here, who put feels ahead of logic 110% of the time.

Yes there are a LOT of problems with our justice system. Continuing to assume minority incarceration rates are based on racism is really not helpful and honestly a disgusting lie that extremely unethical progressives use to further their political goals. It ultimately takes away from our ability to try and solve the legitimate problems in our justice system.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Is any liberal argument rooted in reality?

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No, anytime you read a dissertation on why they are liberal, it's all emotional bull**** with no facts or logic to back it up. Almost entirely based on MSM and Democrat narratives that take the truth and twist it into a illogical string of statements that can not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. Unfortunately they will not listen to any scrutiny that doesn't come from their progressive echo chamber and they end up stuck in a never ending chain of circular logic.

Buzzy said:

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TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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Quote:

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I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

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Thank you.

Quote:

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Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

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Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

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Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

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YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

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There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

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Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

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Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

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It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

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World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

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Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

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Putting more money into education isn't the answer

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Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

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, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

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Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

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Rockdoc said:

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I don't mind liberals as long as they can recognize the facts and be honest about the facts. Differences of opinion are normal, but quit spinning with falsehoods. And before someone says something, yes it works for everybody.

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This is the biggest problem. I can respect the opinions of others as long as they're truthful. American progressives are pathological liars. If you can not compete in an argument without resorting to lying, then you really should reconsider the fundamentals of your ideology.

TxAgswin said:

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Buzzy said:

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TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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Quote:

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I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

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Thank you.

Quote:

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Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

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Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

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Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

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YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

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There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

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Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

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Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

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It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

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World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

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Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

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Putting more money into education isn't the answer

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Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

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, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

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Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

aggieforester05 said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Is any liberal argument rooted in reality?

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No, anytime you read a dissertation on why they are liberal, it's all emotional bull**** with no facts or logic to back it up. Almost entirely based on MSM and Democrat narratives that take the truth and twist it into a illogical string of statements that can not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. Unfortunately they will not listen to any scrutiny that doesn't come from their progressive echo chamber and they end up stuck in a never ending chain of circular logic.

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Just want to point out that your post about how liberal views are "emotional bull**** with no facts or logic" is a post that is "emotional bull**** with no facts or logic."

Bravo, sir.

TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

If liberals could just let go off abortion they would benefit greatly/grow significantly.

Quote:

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I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves.

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Where is this the case? Thus is such a false premise, I don't know what to think about your completely alternative universe you reside in.

Forty-odd years ago, I was rather shocked to learn, while attending a rural South Texas county budget hearing, the relatively large amount of $$$ being budgeted for " indigent health care". That was/is the proper term to describe the people you referenced in the quote above. Since that time, that budget line item in EVERY political subdivision's budget has only seen manifold increases, as that same group of folks has grown in numbers, and continues to do so apace!

It's a bald-faced lie, perpetuated by lying Democrat politicians whose very livelihood is based upon sustaining the lie. And you, my friend, are contributing to that false narrative, and the demise of this great nation with your own misguided attitude.

Now, if you believe, as I suspect you might, that every American is entitled to free and unlimited "health care", that is a very different matter, but even more untenable! Nowhere in the Constitution does it provide for free anything accept speech, religion, and the "pursuit" of happiness/opportunity. The rest is "made up" by rabble rousers.

Aggie95 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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Buzzy said:

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TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

Quote:

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I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

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Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

---

Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

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Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

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There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

---

Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

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Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

---

It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

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World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

---

Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

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Putting more money into education isn't the answer

---

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

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, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

---

Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

---

Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

Jmiller said:

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The ten countries with the highest incarceration RATES are:

United States (639)
El Salvador (566)
Turkmenistan (552)
Thailand (549)
Palau (522)
Rwanda (511)
Cuba (510)
Maldives (499)
Bahamas (442)
Grenada (429)

0.639% of our pop is a f ton of people to deprive of freedom for country that says it loves freedom.

---

Wtf? Are you 12?

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

Which is nothing the Democrats or liberals stand for. Their only platform today is insanity, victimhood, blaming racism for everything and wanting to keep people victims. The fantasy land that you have of "being liberal" Simply doesn't exist.

What you really want is Socialism which is scary.

Everything you say you're for here to a degree is what conservatives and Republicans are fighting for. You literally have it backwards.

To see what Biden and his evil cronies have done in just a mire 11 months to our country should make anyone who thinks liberally to rethink their stance. Where we were a year ago under Trump compared to where we are right now is unreal. Literally every single thing this country was doing and had was better than it is right now.

universal healthcare is actually a nightmare. More people die on that waiting to either see doctors or have the operation it sounds good on paper but it sucks in real life. Do a little real research.

TxAgswin said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Is any liberal argument rooted in reality?

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No, anytime you read a dissertation on why they are liberal, it's all emotional bull**** with no facts or logic to back it up. Almost entirely based on MSM and Democrat narratives that take the truth and twist it into a illogical string of statements that can not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. Unfortunately they will not listen to any scrutiny that doesn't come from their progressive echo chamber and they end up stuck in a never ending chain of circular logic.

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Just want to point out that your post about how liberal views are "emotional bull**** with no facts or logic" is a post that is "emotional bull**** with no facts or logic."

Bravo, sir.

---

I wish you were right, I really do. I wish the American left came to the table with good ideas backed up with sound logic that had the best interests of our country in mind, but it's simply not reality. We're stuck in a system where one political team dominates public discussion because they have a death grip on the propaganda machine despite having nothing but bad ideas. All the other team has to do is oppose those bad ideas and they are empowered without really ever having to pursue the political goals of thier constituents. We need two teams on equal footing with opossing but good ideas. That will not change as long as liberals are comfortable being brainwashed by easily dismissed propaganda.

TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

I appreciate your honesty.
Health care: everybody has a right to it, but how to pay and apportion costs is the question. If someone chooses a risky lifestyle, I shouldn't be forced to pay for their foolishness. And drugs, promiscuity and gluttony are risk factors for which individuals should pay higher health insurance premiums. People born with disabilities? I am happy to pay taxes and assist them.
Education? Public schools are a mixed bag with teachers unions. Solution: go back to much smaller school districts and schools and allow private/church schools to flourish. Get the federal government out of student loan guarantees and go back to work study.
Criminal justice? Stop incarcerating petty criminals with violent offenders. Establish work farms for nonviolent offenders and let them work off their sentence, earn money and get job training while serving: plumbing/electrical, mechanics, etc.Put violent offenders away from society for longer terms. I don't see it as a race weighted exercise like you do, however.

Liberal logic:
Paying for healthcare = undignified
Waiting 6+ months for critical care = dignified

Quote:

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Health care: everybody has a right to it

---

Please elaborate…

A right to access to it? OR, must it be at no cost to them, on demand? THAT is the implication for most…

TxAgswin said:

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Aggie95 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Buzzy said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

WestTexasAg said:

---

Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

Quote:

---

I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

---

Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

---

Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

---

There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

---

Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

---

Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

---

It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

---

World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

---

Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

---

Putting more money into education isn't the answer

---

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

---

, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

---

Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

---

Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

---

This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

Quote:

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Where is this the case? Thus is such a false premise, I don't know what to think about your completely alternative universe you reside in.

Forty-odd years ago, I was rather shocked to learn, while attending a rural South Texas county budget hearing, the relatively large amount of $$$ being budgeted for " indigent health care". That was/is the proper term to describe the people you referenced in the quote above. Since that time, that budget line item in EVERY political subdivision's budget has only seen manifold increases, as that same group of folks has grown in numbers, and continues to do so apace!

---

You have defined the problem.

Health insurance is prohibitively expensive for many Americans. An hourly worker going paycheck to paycheck may find it impossible to get affordable coverage. They may have to make hard decisions between groceries, rent, and medicine.

So, yes indigent healthcare is indeed an enormous expense and of course, we don't refuse treatment to those that can't afford it. If someone comes into the hospital that is uncovered and can't afford treatment, they still won't be turned away. I wasn't suggesting that we're animals and just let people die on the table if they don't have money.

However, we will send them an invoice. And those invoices are huge and in most cases have a zero percent chance of being paid because they simply cannot afford it. So that already indigent patient becomes bankrupt, but probably still has health issues. So, they will be back and the cycle continues.

Medical expenses are the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the United States. BY FAR.

Quote:

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It's a bald-faced lie, perpetuated by lying Democrat politicians whose very livelihood is based upon sustaining the lie. And you, my friend, are contributing to that false narrative, and the demise of this great nation with your own misguided attitude.

---

I'm not even sure what this paragraph is referring to, but I don't think my opinions on healthcare legislation are contributing to "the demise of this great nation". That's a bit dramatic.

Quote:

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Now, if you believe, as I suspect you might, that every American is entitled to free and unlimited "health care", that is a very different matter, but even more untenable! Nowhere in the Constitution does it provide for free anything accept speech, religion, and the "pursuit" of happiness/opportunity. The rest is "made up" by rabble rousers.

---

Yes. That's exactly what I believe.

And it's not untenable.

We stand as the only developed country in the world that doesn't offer its citizens universal healthcare.

ttu_85 said:

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TxAgswin said:

---

Aggie95 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Buzzy said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

WestTexasAg said:

---

Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

Quote:

---

I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

---

Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

---

Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

---

There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

---

Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

---

Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

---

It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

---

World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

---

Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

---

Putting more money into education isn't the answer

---

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

---

, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

---

Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

---

Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

---

This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

---

Absolutely and objectively false.

Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

We get it. I bet you don't know you're a Marxist either. What was it that Khrushchev (a socialist hero) said about people like you? Useful idiots?

TxAgswin said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Aggie95 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Buzzy said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

WestTexasAg said:

---

Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

Quote:

---

I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

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Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

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Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

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YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

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There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

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Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

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Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

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It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

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World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

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Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

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Putting more money into education isn't the answer

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Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

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, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

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Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

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Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

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Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

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This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

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Absolutely and objectively false.

Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

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What two bit Scandinavian countries with DGP's and populations less than the size of Georgia USA.

Btw your link doesnt work.

Countries that are titled Democratic Republics used to include the Democratic Republic of Germany deceased. Today, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. The Democratic Republic or Korea. Yeah those are real GDP barn burners. You are full of crap

At least post a link that works.

ttu_85 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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ttu_85 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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Aggie95 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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Buzzy said:

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TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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Quote:

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I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

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Thank you.

Quote:

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Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

---

Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

---

Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

---

There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

---

Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

---

Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

---

It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

---

World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

---

Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

---

Putting more money into education isn't the answer

---

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

---

, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

---

Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

---

Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

---

This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

---

Absolutely and objectively false.

Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

---

What two bit Scandinavian countries with DGP's and populations less than the size of Georgia USA.

Btw your link doesnt work.

Countries that are titled Democratic Republics used to include the Democratic Republic of Germany deceased. Today, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. The Democratic Republic or Korea. Yeah those are real GDP barn burners. You are full of crap

At least post a link that works.

Edit you fixed your link. Where is your list of formal Democratic socialist republics besides the ones I named.

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Socialists rank their systems the best? Big surprise!

What's next? Conservatives are all racist because MSDNC says so?