aggieforester05 said:

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Socialists rank their systems the best? Big surprise!

What's next? Conservatives are all racist because MSDNC says so?

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Look at his list. I dont think he knows what a Democratic Socialist country really is. Most of them went on the ash heap of History between 1989 and 1993

TxAgswin said:

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Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

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That is an index and it is highly contrived. The parameters are subjective as well as the weight applied to each parameter.

Not to mention heavy government spending can always make a major positive impact on those very same parameters. It is self fulfilling argument.

There are downsides to this way or arranging and managing human affairs that are highly negative. Those aren't factored into the indices.

Secondly different populations prioritize different measures of quality of life.

For example I prioritize access to arms ammunition and low taxes. So do a lot of people I live near.

ITxAgswin said:

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Where is this the case? Thus is such a false premise, I don't know what to think about your completely alternative universe you reside in.

Forty-odd years ago, I was rather shocked to learn, while attending a rural South Texas county budget hearing, the relatively large amount of $$$ being budgeted for " indigent health care". That was/is the proper term to describe the people you referenced in the quote above. Since that time, that budget line item in EVERY political subdivision's budget has only seen manifold increases, as that same group of folks has grown in numbers, and continues to do so apace!

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You have defined the problem.

Health insurance is prohibitively expensive for many Americans. An hourly worker going paycheck to paycheck may find it impossible to get affordable coverage. They may have to make hard decisions between groceries, rent, and medicine.

So, yes indigent healthcare is indeed an enormous expense and of course, we don't refuse treatment to those that can't afford it. If someone comes into the hospital that is uncovered and can't afford treatment, they still won't be turned away. I wasn't suggesting that we're animals and just let people die on the table if they don't have money.

However, we will send them an invoice. And those invoices are huge and in most cases have a zero percent chance of being paid because they simply cannot afford it. So that already indigent patient becomes bankrupt, but probably still has health issues. So, they will be back and the cycle continues.

Medical expenses are the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the United States. BY FAR.

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It's a bald-faced lie, perpetuated by lying Democrat politicians whose very livelihood is based upon sustaining the lie. And you, my friend, are contributing to that false narrative, and the demise of this great nation with your own misguided attitude.

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I'm not even sure what this paragraph is referring to, but I don't think my opinions on healthcare legislation are contributing to "the demise of this great nation". That's a bit dramatic.

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Now, if you believe, as I suspect you might, that every American is entitled to free and unlimited "health care", that is a very different matter, but even more untenable! Nowhere in the Constitution does it provide for free anything accept speech, religion, and the "pursuit" of happiness/opportunity. The rest is "made up" by rabble rousers.

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Yes. That's exactly what I believe.

And it's not untenable.

We stand as the only developed country in the world that doesn't offer its citizens universal healthcare.

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The "bald-faced lie" referred to in my original post above, is the part of your OP that you failed to copy and include in your reply. Did you even read it? Do you disagree with it? Here it is again:

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I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves.

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We DO "take care of those who can't take care of themselves." And a whole lot more (who CAN take care of themselves, but choose to allow Uncle Sugar to do so instead) in the process! And we've done so all of my adult life (> 50 years). Reading "absolute" statements to the contrary serve to "torque my jaws"! I know you "mean well", but it doesn't make your statement any less false. It reveals an ignorance and a denial of America's earned reputation as THE most generous and humanitarian nation all of history! Presume you're familiar with the history of WWII, and our role in it? Nuff said.

Some good discussion on here. Glad to see most responses have been respectful in their dissent.

And I agree with OP- progressive leftists are absolutely Godless heathens.

TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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I applaud the honesty. You lose me on the court and racial stuff though. I agree with you barely there.

Here's my question to you? How would you honestly handle the outrageously higher prevalence of crime, both violent and minor offenses by the black community? I know some of that is due to racial inequalities going back centuries and continually improving, but at some point that community has to police their own and I see NONE of that unfortunately. I don't even see a desire by anyone within the community to be accountable or expect accountability in any way, shape or form. At the end of the day, there's nothing we can do for some communities until they're willing to stop it themselves.

If I'd seen even a semblance of the black community trying to stop the violence and crime that pervades, I'd be SO much more willing to do anything and everything I could to personally help any way I could. It has to be a joint effort though. You have to want to be better and to do better. Don't simply accept that your neighbors are bad and do bad things. Band together as a community and stop letting folks ruin it for everyone else.

Any actual classical liberals would vote for Republicans today. The Democratic Party is just a totalitarian/leftist organization. We have many on this board who vote for/support it.

ttu_85 said:

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ttu_85 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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ttu_85 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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Aggie95 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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Buzzy said:

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TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

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Thank you.

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Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

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Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

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Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

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YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

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There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

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Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

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Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

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It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

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World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

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Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

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Putting more money into education isn't the answer

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Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

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, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

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Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

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Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

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Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

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This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

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Absolutely and objectively false.

Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

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What two bit Scandinavian countries with DGP's and populations less than the size of Georgia USA.

Btw your link doesnt work.

Countries that are titled Democratic Republics used to include the Democratic Republic of Germany deceased. Today, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. The Democratic Republic or Korea. Yeah those are real GDP barn burners. You are full of crap

At least post a link that works.

Edit you fixed your link. Where is your list of formal Democratic socialist republics besides the ones I named.

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My bad. Must have pasted it in wrong or something.

So here are a few relevant links... Hopefully, I get it right this time

Democratic Socialist Countries List

A bit of a mixed bag in terms in terms of economic success, but the highest Standards of Living rankings include a ton of Democratic Socialist nations.

Quality of Life Index (a collection of metrics)
Standard of Living Index (per capita GDP)

And for fun, A Fox News article about a "family index" for those that don't find The Economist or the Wharton School of Business (they have a very famous alumnus you know) credible sources.

I will never understand how liberals put such faith in an entity that has failed so spectacularly in the past. 30 trillion in debt? A entire school district in a metro area with not one kid performing at grade level in math? A legion of multi- millionaires in congress who don't make high salaries? Start a retirement program in which participant can't withdraw until 65 when life expectancy in 63? Put chains on people of color? Spy on its own citizens? No problem!

BoerneGator said:

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Quote:

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Health care: everybody has a right to it

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Please elaborate…

A right to access to it? OR, must it be at no cost to them, on demand? THAT is the implication for most…

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Right to access. You don't have a right to free groceries.

TxAgswin said:

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Am I the only liberal that posts on this board?

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After reading your response, seems like you're more 'moderate' than 'liberal' and certainly not a 'progressive' or a 'leftist'. I agree with some of your points, but also don't think that it's the government's job to provide universal healthcare.

UTExan said:

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BoerneGator said:

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Quote:

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Health care: everybody has a right to it

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Please elaborate…

A right to access to it? OR, must it be at no cost to them, on demand? THAT is the implication for most…

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Right to access. You don't have a right to free groceries.

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Have you seen what women try to stick in their skirts, bags, and waistband?

zgolfz85 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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I applaud the honesty. You lose me on the court and racial stuff though. I agree with you barely there.

Here's my question to you? How would you honestly handle the outrageously higher prevalence of crime, both violent and minor offenses by the black community? I know some of that is due to racial inequalities going back centuries and continually improving, but at some point that community has to police their own and I see NONE of that unfortunately. I don't even see a desire by anyone within the community to be accountable or expect accountability in any way, shape or form. At the end of the day, there's nothing we can do for some communities until they're willing to stop it themselves.

If I'd seen even a semblance of the black community trying to stop the violence and crime that pervades, I'd be SO much more willing to do anything and everything I could to personally help any way I could. It has to be a joint effort though. You have to want to be better and to do better. Don't simply accept that your neighbors are bad and do bad things. Band together as a community and stop letting folks ruin it for everyone else.

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I agree.

Communities, like people, should be accountable and they have agency over their own outcomes No doubt.

Crime is directly correlated to economics and education (or lack thereof). And economics in this country has a very real racial component.

Race gets sticky because the economic timeline is fundamentally unfair. Not being able to own property or go to college until just a generation or two ago makes it virtually impossible to create any sort of wealth in your family.

So, while problems about race at this moment are more about economics than race, those economic fallouts were the direct result of racist policies of exclusion. It will likely take several generations for that water to level. While I don't think the answer is over the top silly nonsense like reparations or even affirmative action. I do think we should take a pause before indicting the black community. They were dealt a ****ty hand and I can understand why they would be pissed off about it. Who wouldn't be?

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If I'd seen even a semblance of the black community trying to stop the violence and crime

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Come on, man

There are enormous efforts being made in the black community to combat crime. Most are faith-based, and there are tons of people that dedicate their lives to try and better their communities and work to steer kids in the right direction. And God bless those folks.

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and explaining your reasoning for being liberal.
I'm ultra conservative, and at the same time, I truly have a bleeding heart for so many in society. I ache for so many that truly are cast aside and fight for every inch. The HUGE difference between us, I donate my time and money to worthy charities - I'd never rely on the government to solve those problems. Your heart is in the right place in wanting fairness and dignity for all - your solution to outsource it to the federal government is illogical. Everything they touch, they ruin. Government should be small and how we care for others is thru local charities.

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Right to access. You don't have a right to free groceries.

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Cannot locate your original post to determine the context of your post. Is this merely an academic argument? Who does not have access? I'm not aware this situation exists in America…

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Race gets sticky because the economic timeline is fundamentally unfair. Not being able to own property or go to college until just a generation or two ago makes it virtually impossible to create any sort of wealth in your family.

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Statements like the bolded cause me to question your maturity… "a generation or two"? Is that hyperbole intentional? It's akin to your original statement that I challenged, you didn't respond to, and I re-challenged it, and you've yet to respond to…that we don't provide for the indigent.

BoerneGator said:

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Race gets sticky because the economic timeline is fundamentally unfair. Not being able to own property or go to college until just a generation or two ago makes it virtually impossible to create any sort of wealth in your family.

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Statements like the bolded cause me to question your maturity… "a generation or two"? Is that hyperbole intentional? It's akin to your original statement that I challenged, you didn't respond to, and I re-challenged it, and you've yet to respond to…that we don't provide for the indigent.

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Not to mention it assumes (incorrectly) that every white family has "family wealth"!

BoerneGator said:

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Race gets sticky because the economic timeline is fundamentally unfair. Not being able to own property or go to college until just a generation or two ago makes it virtually impossible to create any sort of wealth in your family.

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Statements like the bolded cause me to question your maturity… "a generation or two"? Is that hyperbole intentional? It's akin to your original statement that I challenged, you didn't respond to, and I re-challenged it, and you've yet to respond to…that we don't provide for the indigent.

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I've responded to it several times on several issues. Not sure what to tell you there. Go back and read the responses maybe?

As far as the phrase you so boldly bolded that makes you ironically "question (my) maturity", it is a fact-based reference. The Fair Housing Act was signed in 1968. Prior to that, it was very difficult for black people to buy homes or land.

My sister was around in 1968, so, that's literally inside my generation. I was wrong about the "or two" part. My apologies. I stand corrected.

BoerneGator said:

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Right to access. You don't have a right to free groceries.

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Cannot locate your original post to determine the context of your post. Is this merely an academic argument? Who does not have access? I'm not aware this situation exists in America…

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People DO have access to health care in America in most areas. Other areas like Appalachia truly have access problems because of dispersion of medical resources and the geography of the landscape. Urbanites always have access to hospital ERs if necessary. A cheaper alternative would be more affordable medical insurance based on something like the Singapore model to facilitate maintenance of health care for chronic issues. But that relies on forcing people into health care programs, which I oppose even though it would be in their best interests long term.

Todd 02 said:

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BoerneGator said:

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Quote:

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Race gets sticky because the economic timeline is fundamentally unfair. Not being able to own property or go to college until just a generation or two ago makes it virtually impossible to create any sort of wealth in your family.

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Statements like the bolded cause me to question your maturity… "a generation or two"? Is that hyperbole intentional? It's akin to your original statement that I challenged, you didn't respond to, and I re-challenged it, and you've yet to respond to…that we don't provide for the indigent.

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Not to mention it assumes (incorrectly) that every white family has "family wealth"!

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Where did I make that assumption? I think you just assumed that I assumed something that I didn't assume. Don't assume.

The conversation is about aggregate wealth and opportunity across communities and the consequences of excluding people from truly participating in the economy.

UTExan said:

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BoerneGator said:

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Quote:

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Health care: everybody has a right to it

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Please elaborate…

A right to access to it? OR, must it be at no cost to them, on demand? THAT is the implication for most…

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Right to access. You don't have a right to free groceries.

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Unlike the made up right to health care, the right to bear arms is enumerated in the constitution. That doesn't mean the gun store is obligated to transfer a gun to me if I do not have a means to pay for it. Again leftist talking points fail miserably each and every time even the slightest scrutiny is applied.

TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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I disagree with all of it, but what do you think of Biden and his hand in the "punitive" laws? Racial Jungle didn't come from conservatives. People deserve to be in jail because of their own actions. It's not the law or other people's fault. They decided to be a criminal. In addition, all of these Soros DA's are causing huge problems. EVERY SINGLE PERSON THEY ARE LETTING OUT DESERVES TO BE IN JAIL.

Ok, so you would do well to avoid hyperbole, because it weakens whatever argument you're trying to make. You start by using the term "unable to buy…", and when challenged your response used "difficult to buy". You speak in absolutes, and your words might have still applied in the 1870's, but not since then. And certainly much longer than two generations. A generation is 20-30 years.

Your original claim that we don't provide health care for the indigent is patently false. Every metropolitan city in America has a county hospital where the indigent go, and have for more than a century! Ever hear of Medicaid? I mean you are repeating a lie.

TxAgswin said:

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ttu_85 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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Aggie95 said:

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TxAgswin said:

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Buzzy said:

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TxAgswin said:

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WestTexasAg said:

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Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

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No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

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I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

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Thank you.

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Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

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Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

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Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

---

There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

---

Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

---

Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

---

It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

---

World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

---

Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

---

Putting more money into education isn't the answer

---

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

---

, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

---

Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

---

Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

---

This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

---

Absolutely and objectively false.

Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

---

Dude, these countries have homogenous populations. The top ten are primarily white. That ship has sailed. Talk to your democratic friends who leave the border wide open and invite 6 billion people to get here anyway possible. We can't support all of these illegals. What about all of these Americans you say you care for????

TxAgswin said:

---

zgolfz85 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

WestTexasAg said:

---

Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

I applaud the honesty. You lose me on the court and racial stuff though. I agree with you barely there.

Here's my question to you? How would you honestly handle the outrageously higher prevalence of crime, both violent and minor offenses by the black community? I know some of that is due to racial inequalities going back centuries and continually improving, but at some point that community has to police their own and I see NONE of that unfortunately. I don't even see a desire by anyone within the community to be accountable or expect accountability in any way, shape or form. At the end of the day, there's nothing we can do for some communities until they're willing to stop it themselves.

If I'd seen even a semblance of the black community trying to stop the violence and crime that pervades, I'd be SO much more willing to do anything and everything I could to personally help any way I could. It has to be a joint effort though. You have to want to be better and to do better. Don't simply accept that your neighbors are bad and do bad things. Band together as a community and stop letting folks ruin it for everyone else.

---

I agree.

Communities, like people, should be accountable and they have agency over their own outcomes No doubt.

Crime is directly correlated to economics and education (or lack thereof). And economics in this country has a very real racial component.

Race gets sticky because the economic timeline is fundamentally unfair. Not being able to own property or go to college until just a generation or two ago makes it virtually impossible to create any sort of wealth in your family.

So, while problems about race at this moment are more about economics than race, those economic fallouts were the direct result of racist policies of exclusion. It will likely take several generations for that water to level. While I don't think the answer is over the top silly nonsense like reparations or even affirmative action. I do think we should take a pause before indicting the black community. They were dealt a ****ty hand and I can understand why they would be pissed off about it. Who wouldn't be?

Quote:

---

If I'd seen even a semblance of the black community trying to stop the violence and crime

---

Come on, man

There are enormous efforts being made in the black community to combat crime. Most are faith-based, and there are tons of people that dedicate their lives to try and better their communities and work to steer kids in the right direction. And God bless those folks.

---

Wow - I'm a first generation white college graduate. My dad bought his first house at 40. $17,500 house. Neither of my parents talked about attending college as I grew up, saved for it, or expected me to go. Sorry, try again. And I didn't quality for grants either. You had to be on my own for two years (and my parents couldn't afford to not claim me on their taxes).

When I graduated 14% of my graduating class went to college. It was not common for everyone to just go.

TxAgswin said:

---

Aggie95 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Buzzy said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

WestTexasAg said:

---

Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

Quote:

---

I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

---

Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

---

Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

---

There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

---

Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

---

Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

---

It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

---

World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

---

Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

---

Putting more money into education isn't the answer

---

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

---

, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

---

Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

---

Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

---

As an educator, you couldn't be more wrong.

The vast majority of teachers, even in Texas, are liberals that have never worked outside of the public sector in their careers. They are constantly spreading their misconceptions and filling the heads of our youth with lies.

The countries that are kicking our butts in education have parents that value education. Plain and simple. I will again pose to you the notion that every system in our country has gotten progressively worse since "progressives" have had their way. If we want to fix most of the systems in the US, we need to go back to managing like it's the 40s and use current technology.

The OP isn't lying or making things up when he says our education system is worse than most other european countries. It is. Almost all of them use a tracking system, separating the college bound kids from the vocation bound ones in HS. Completely different schools. We would be much better off adopting a system like that instead of the "no child left behind" BS we currently believe in.

Quote:

---

The conversation is about aggregate wealth and opportunity across communities and the consequence of excluding people from truly participating in the economy.

---

You keep adding to or changing the argument. You start by speaking in absolutes, and now you're introducing qualifying terms like 'aggregate' and 'opportunity', but please demonstrate where laws and or policies exist to "exclude" people? You cannot do so, because it does not exist.

You are buying into, and repeating, the decades-long canards promulgated by the DNC and repeated ad Infinitum by their many acolyte/sycophants spread across the legacy media. You are merely parroting these same canards with nothing to support your hyperbole.

Champ Bailey said:

---

The OP isn't lying or making things up when he says our education system is worse than most other european countries. It is. Almost all of them use a tracking system, separating the college bound kids from the vocation bound ones in HS. Completely different schools. We would be much better off adopting a system like that instead of the "no child left behind" BS we currently believe in.

---

Instead we are teaching them how racist everything is. If only, any of what they believed was actually true.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/07/most-teens-believe-theres-a-lack-of-economic-opportunity-in-the-us.html

BoerneGator said:

---

Quote:

---

The conversation is about aggregate wealth and opportunity across communities and the consequence of excluding people from truly participating in the economy.

---

You keep adding to or changing the argument. You start by speaking in absolutes, and now you're introducing qualifying terms like 'aggregate' and 'opportunity', but please demonstrate where laws and or policies exist to "exclude" people? You cannot do so, because it does not exist.

You are buying into, and repeating, the decades-long canards promulgated by the DNC and repeated ad Infinitum by their many acolyte/sycophants spread across the legacy media. You are merely parroting these same canards with nothing to support your hyperbole.

---

That's just not true. There are plenty of government policies that hender white people. But OP is fine with that.

Busted…

Can you show me the study where crime is directly correlated to poverty and education? Considering the big criminogenic risk factors are history of antisocial behavior, antisocial personality pattern, antisocial cognition, and antisocial associates that isn't livery or education. While family stability including poverty and education are top 10 risk factors they aren't considered one of the big 4.

Also as far as poverty a stable home life is more important. When you look at the risk factor poverty falls under this bit a two parent household without either parent being involved in the criminal justice system is more important.

TAMU1990 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Aggie95 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Buzzy said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

WestTexasAg said:

---

Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

Quote:

---

I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

---

Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

---

Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

Quote:

---

There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

---

Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

Quote:

---

Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

---

It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

Quote:

---

World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

---

Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

Quote:

---

Putting more money into education isn't the answer

---

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

Quote:

---

, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

---

Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

---

---

Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

---

Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

---

This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

---

Absolutely and objectively false.

Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

---

---

Quote:

---

Dude, these countries have homogenous populations. The top ten are primarily white.

---

Why does that matter?

Quote:

---

That ship has sailed

---

Huh?

Quote:

---

Talk to your democratic friends who leave the border wide open and invite 6 billion people to get here anyway possible. We can't support all of these illegals.

---

Not sure how immigration is relevant to the discussion, but you clearly want to chat about it. So, okay.

6 BILLION, huh? I had no idea that there were twenty times more immigrants here than the actual population. They must be really good at hiding.

There are about 40 million immigrants living in the United States. About 25%, (so 10 million) live here illegally.

Unauthorized immigration has been steadily DECLINING since 2007. The outrage about "open borders" and that stupid wall is all complete nonsense.

This country isn't about building walls. It's about tearing them down.

Quote:

---

What about all of these Americans you say you care for????

---

What about them?

TxAgswin said:

---

TAMU1990 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Aggie95 said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

Buzzy said:

---

TxAgswin said:

---

WestTexasAg said:

---

Can you explain your reason for being a liberal? Not making fun, just curious what is appealing about being a liberal.

---

No worries. My skin has to be pretty thick on this board.

Happy to answer your question...

The reason for my ideology revolves around dignity and fairness.

I believe in universal health care. I find it undignified that the wealthiest country in the world is so tied up in their own bull**** that we can't take care of those that can't take care of themselves. I am fortunate enough to not have to dread making financial decisions about my family's health. I got it. But most do not. The fire department doesn't send you an invoice after they put out the fire in your house. The police don't bill us when they protect us from bad guys. Those services are baked into our fundamental rights, and healthcare should be as well.

I believe our court system is broken. There are way too many people in jail. And there is definitely a race element to that. I won't dig into that because people get very defensive about it, but that's what I believe. Our criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed and, in my opinion, conservatives are to blame for that.

I believe that education is the answer. It always has been. We should put every spare nickel we have into education.

John Adams said, "Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

I support our troops (of course), but I think the Pentagon gets waaaay too much money.

I am a "liberal" (or whatever) because I think we should prioritize differently.

That's just me though.

---

Quote:

---

I starred your post because at least you put your positions out there, even if I disagree with some of them.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Police and firefighter services are not 'fundamental rights', they're paid for by local taxes. What I'm getting from this is you believe help mainly law enforcement/fire prevention/and healthcare) are all fundamental rights citizens should receive 'free', in the sense that they're paid for by the community via taxes. Is my summation correct?

---

Yes. That's exactly my take on it. All of those things (law enforcement, fire, military, and health) all go in the same bucket and should be provided and funded by the state. All but health already are. And every other country in the world puts health in that bucket. My view on state-funded health care isn't radical by any means. Private health care only exists here. And it's a nightmare.

Quote:

---

Our court system isn't broken and we don't have too many people in jail. All stats about "America has more people in prison than any other country" ignore the fact that we have a fu ckton more people than any other country, so yes, if you go by sheer numbers, we have a lot of people in prison. We have 2.12 million prisoners in this country, which sounds like a lot, until you understand we have 329.5 million people in this country. So less than 1% (.6% actually) of our population is in prison. So you want me to worry about the .6% or the 99.4% of people who manage to do right and stay out of prison?

---

YES! You should definitely worry about that! It's a HUGE number. Do you know what that number represents? 1 in every 200 US citizens lives in a cage.

A .6% incarceration rate is ****ing enormous and unpresedented.

That number is an embarassment.

Mexico is at .15%... "They're bringing crime. They're rapists" -DT

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There isn't a race element to whether you end up in jail or prison, there is a poverty element to it. Poor people can't afford lawyers so it is easier for them to be manipulated into pleading out. Guess who also commits the most crime, by far? Poor people. Too many people point to race when the real issue is poverty.

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Hmm...why are those things so tightly correlated? Better to not think about it I guess.

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Agree with you in theory on education, but too many look at it as the silver bullet.

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It is not the silver bullet. It's the golden bullet.

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World history is filled with poor immigrants who came to a country with just the clothes on their back and little or no education. Those immigrants were able to turn a strong work ethic and a frugal mindset into financial success.

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Cute.

Not really true, but cute.

It's alarming that you don't see the correleation between education and financial success. If you want to see it just Google "correlation between education and financial success." It's pretty obvious and not really a thing people debate. Certainly there's anecdotal evidence of people blood, sweat and tearing there way to wealth. But the overwhelming majority of successful people were provided quality education.

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Putting more money into education isn't the answer

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Well, I just fundamentally disagree with that.

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, it just leads to more corruption and bloated administrations trying tustify their existence. Look at modern universities if you disagree. What we need is more promotion of the value of self-education. We should promote financial independence. We should promote entrepreneurship. We need to promote literacy and numeracy and intellectual curiosity. Promoting the former two is easy, no idea on how you promote the latter.

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Totally agree with you there.

We definitely need to trim the fat in our public education system. And that argument could be reasonably made for virtually all public spending. It's so obvious it's a little lazy.

Promoting literacy, math, and intelectual curiosity is actually just a tidy definitiion of what educatiion should be. In my opinion, the way that is achieved is by great teachers. And that's where it should start. There are a lot of them, but they make it really hard to be a teacher. They barely get paid and they don't even provide the resources necessary to succeed. I attend a benefit event every summer where we donate school supplies so teachers don't have to go buy that stuff themselves. Talking about pencils and notebooks and ***** They shouldn't have to do that. We need to ease that burdon so we can attract and maintian great teachers. I think it's the best investment of tax-payer money we can make.

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Our current public education is more worried about teaching gender issues, racial theories, etc than reading, writing, and proper math.....any additional $ thrown at k-12 edication is a waste until that changes. There is a reason other countries kick our buts in math and science....they actually teach it without adding left-wing falsehoods.

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Good grief. The reason other countries kick our butts in math and science is that their schools are better and their teachers aren't just above the poverty line.

Most, if not all of those countries that are kicking our butts in education are democratic socialist republics.

And the teachers here are teaching reading, writing, and math the best they can. Your paranoid delusion that they are a bunch of communists brainwashing your kids into a liberal cabal is just nonsense.

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This from a man that makes the boast in bold. I guess what constitutes "education" is very subjective. Clearly Democratic socialist republics are so educated they can't even make bread and get it distributed. You know empty shelves and empty stomachs. "Democratic" Socialist republics are consistent proven failures so I guess that make proponents of that system insane. Teaching a system that fails over and over again

Yep truly nuts.

This is the dumbest post on this thread. Easily debunked.

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Absolutely and objectively false.

Democratic socialist countries have the highest standard of living on the planet.

If something is "easily debunked" why don't you provide some data to "debunk" it?

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Dude, these countries have homogenous populations. The top ten are primarily white.

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Why does that matter?

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That ship has sailed

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Huh?

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Talk to your democratic friends who leave the border wide open and invite 6 billion people to get here anyway possible. We can't support all of these illegals.

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Not sure how immigration is relevant to the discussion, but you clearly want to chat about it. So, okay.

6 BILLION, huh? I had no idea that there were twenty times more immigrants here than the actual population. They must be really good at hiding.

There are about 40 million immigrants living in the United States. About 25%, (so 10 million) live here illegally.

Unauthorized immigration has been steadily DECLINING since 2007. The outrage about "open borders" and that stupid wall is all complete nonsense.

This country isn't about building walls. It's about tearing them down.

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What about all of these Americans you say you care for????

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What about them?

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Failed reading comprehension and intentionally obtuse. The hallmarks of the liberal argument.

I am telling you folks, we are beyond talking this out. These people are hopeless and helpless.

He is always obtuse when he argues. Go find the vaccine mandate where he made incredibly stupid arguments just to run away.