I believe you and I will likely kill many a godless marxist before we try to kill each other for heresy with tears in our eyes.
Who knew pettiness was so close to godliness (Pope Francis & Covid)
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Last: 4 yr ago by TxAgPreacher
Joe Boudain said:
I believe you and I will likely kill many a godless marxist before we try to kill each other for heresy with tears in our eyes.
Amen
This "Pope" certainly acts more like the Anti-Christ than the Vicar of Christ
His communist/marxist politics only killed 100,000,000 humans in the last century. If this guy actually had a resume and you wanted to hire him for a job, would you? Certainly not very accomplished just like our current Moron-In-Chief.
His communist/marxist politics only killed 100,000,000 humans in the last century. If this guy actually had a resume and you wanted to hire him for a job, would you? Certainly not very accomplished just like our current Moron-In-Chief.
No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
Fun thread.
Given the forum I wouldn't have expected any defense of the current Pope. To my delight I was wrong.
Given the forum I wouldn't have expected any defense of the current Pope. To my delight I was wrong.
What would the significance be if it were truly his body and his blood? It's sad how you don't know how great a gift it is that you are rejecting. I asked you to read John 6. In that reading many of his disciplines rejected this teaching, Our Lord didn't stop them and say "wait guys, I was just using a symbol" he turned to his apostles and asked if they would leave him too. The focus isn't in the act of eating, it is being transformed by what we are eating.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting.
Marxist Pope aside...I actually genuinely respect Catholics, I just disagree 100% with some scriptural interpretation and get aggravated when I have devoted decades of my life to studying scripture and am then made to feel stupid. But my belief is that whether you or i are right or wrong, that intent matters and that Jesus saves us even if we or our faith aren't entirely perfect and the bible isn't perfectly understood. He forgave Peter and paul was even forgiven...so any of us can be washed by his blood (figuratively lol). I couldn't care less if Catholics believe that all non-Catholics are going to hell. I disagree, but i understand why they believe that.Joe Boudain said:
I believe you and I will likely kill many a godless marxist before we try to kill each other for heresy with tears in our eyes.
I will always be allies with Catholics and any Christian variant or segment and consider them brothers and sisters...as long as they are not liberals. I know I am not a heretic and that Catholics aren't. I would enjoy the religious debates around campfire as we clean our swords of tainted evil godless blood lol.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
A campfire seems a little rustic.
Why not clean the sword at a nice restaurant over a glass of wine?
Why not clean the sword at a nice restaurant over a glass of wine?
And this can happen even if you know it is purchased bread and wine or grape juice that you are ingesting. Even baptism itself is a symbolistic act. But one that has a ton of meaning and significance. I am not sure about sprinkling, but baptizing/immersion, like he and others did in the bible. There is no literal earthly transformation or significance, and it doesn't matter what water is used...it's a spiritual transformation.jrico2727 said:What would the significance be if it were truly his body and his blood? It's sad how you don't know how great a gift it is that you are rejecting. I asked you to read John 6. In that reading many of his disciplines rejected this teaching, Our Lord didn't stop them and say "wait guys, I was just using a symbol" he turned to his apostles and asked if they would leave him too. The focus isn't in the act of eating, it is being transformed by what we are eating.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
I look forward to the day when Catholics and protestants stop their online circle jerks, ally up, and destroy the commie atheists once and for all.SB 43rd STREET OG said:I actually respect Catholics, I just disagree 100% with some scriptural interpretation. But my belief is that whether you or i are right or wrong, that intent matters and that Jesus saves us even if we or our faith aren't entirely perfect and well understood. I couldn't care less if Catholics believe that all non-Catholics are going to hell. I disagree, but i understand why they believe that.Joe Boudain said:
I believe you and I will likely kill many a godless marxist before we try to kill each other for heresy with tears in our eyes.
I will always be allies with Catholics and any Christian variant or segment and consider them brothers and sisters...as long as they are not liberals. I would enjoy the religious debates around campfire as we clean our swords of tainted evil godless blood lol.
It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship. So let me correct what I said above...there have been too many times where I just went through the routines and did NOT take communion as serious as I should have. I have to really put effort into making sure I am in a good and reverent place each time.
Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
Good grief……. Anybody who brings up the wall around the Vatican and "open borders" loses all credibility.HarryJ33tamu said:
This Pope is evil and certainly not a true Christian.
He pushes open borders (funny considering the wall surrounding the Vatican), climate change, and other far left agenda. He's just another commie elitist.
Not to mention, yet another propaganda arm for the Democratic Party..
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/faith/2020/6/10/21286487/pope-francis-catholics-george-floyd-death-priest-black-lives-matter
Pookers said:I look forward to the day when Catholics and protestants stop their online circle jerks, ally up, and destroy the commie atheists once and for all.SB 43rd STREET OG said:I actually respect Catholics, I just disagree 100% with some scriptural interpretation. But my belief is that whether you or i are right or wrong, that intent matters and that Jesus saves us even if we or our faith aren't entirely perfect and well understood. I couldn't care less if Catholics believe that all non-Catholics are going to hell. I disagree, but i understand why they believe that.Joe Boudain said:
I believe you and I will likely kill many a godless marxist before we try to kill each other for heresy with tears in our eyes.
I will always be allies with Catholics and any Christian variant or segment and consider them brothers and sisters...as long as they are not liberals. I would enjoy the religious debates around campfire as we clean our swords of tainted evil godless blood lol.
It seems like a missed opportunity to not have Chad sporting a pike.
Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
You need validly ordained priest to actually transform the bread and wine to his body and blood, Who is doing so through the ministry and priesthood of Jesus Christ.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship. So let me correct what I said above...there have been too many times where I just went through the routines and did NOT take communion as serious as I should have. I have to really put effort into making sure I am in a good and reverent place each time.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
The rest that is in Bold is beautiful and truly wish more Catholics who are given the true Body and Blood of Christ had your reverence for what it is.
Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
You sneer but I bet the bread they serve is risen.
Alright this is getting absurd, I'm out.jrico2727 said:You need validly ordained priest to actually transform the bread and wine to his body and blood, Who is doing so through the ministry and priesthood of Jesus Christ.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship. So let me correct what I said above...there have been too many times where I just went through the routines and did NOT take communion as serious as I should have. I have to really put effort into making sure I am in a good and reverent place each time.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
The rest that is in Bold is beautiful and truly wish more Catholics who are given the true Body and Blood of Christ had your reverence for what it is.
Just know I'm on yall's side politically and in terms of love for God and Jesus. I just don't subscribe to all of the manmade rules and practices you adhere to, for which there is no biblical basis.
And honestly, i think if Jesus ever came back as a man, he'd be in the Catholic church with whips and fire in his eyes...much like he was in the temple that had been perverted. And for reasons outside of all of the pedophilia and widespread cover ups.
But as for practicing Catholics, "forgive them, they do not know what they do"...they are just following shepherds that they trust. I think God will grant them mercy just as he does believers of other denominations, all of which are sinners not worthy of his grace.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
Need to move this thread to R&P so K2 can dominate it...
What should St.Justin the Martyr have followed in the late 2nd century when he was celebrating the mass, and there was no bible?SB 43rd STREET OG said:Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
also, indulgences aren't heretical, selling them is the sin of "simony"
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
This is from the year 180ish AD
"
Quote:
And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.
Quote:
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." (First Apology, 66)"
That is exactly how we take communion, and I have zero issues with what he said. Unless he is saying that he is supernatural and magically turned it into literal flesh and blood, which it simply is not...and that is not the importance of it and was never intended to be. Very clearly.Joe Boudain said:What should St.Justin the Martyr have followed in the late 2nd century when he was celebrating the mass, and there was no bible?SB 43rd STREET OG said:Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
This is from the year 180ish AD
"Quote:
And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.Quote:
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." (First Apology, 66)"
"This is my flesh" doesn't mean the bread he gave his followers was literally his flesh. He could have given them his literal flesh EASILY if he wanted to...if cannibalism was the focus and not the ritual of worship and remembrance.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
This is from the mid 2nd century; and the guys said it is the "flesh and blood of Jesus who was made flesh". How can you say it's very clearly when we have 1600 years of christendom believing it's the body and the blood of Christ? Many people left because they thought it WAS cannibalism. He let them go. The earliest believers actually discussed whether or not they were lopping off body parts of Christ when they ate the Eucharist, for they understood so well that it WAS the body and blood of Christ.SB 43rd STREET OG said:That is exactly how we take communion, and I have zero issues with what he said. Unless he is saying that he magically turned it into literal flesh and blood, which it simply is not...and that is not the importance of it and was never intended to be. Very clearly.Joe Boudain said:What should St.Justin the Martyr have followed in the late 2nd century when he was celebrating the mass, and there was no bible?SB 43rd STREET OG said:Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
This is from the year 180ish AD
"Quote:
And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.Quote:
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." (First Apology, 66)"
"This is my flesh" doesn't mean the bread he gave his followers was literally his flesh. He could have given them his flesh EASILY if he wanted to...if cannibalism was the focus and not the ritual of worship and remembrance.
They pondered whether he had to be sacrificed every mass, or whether his one sacrifice was good for all and echoed throughout eternity.
These are all questions the Church though of and ruled on so that we would have the framework of belief that we have today.
I ask again, how is someone supposed to say it's his body and blood other than "is the flesh and blood of that of Jesus who was made flesh"?
Again, these people would have been very familiar with the passover lamb, that had to be EATEN, not symbolically, but literally eaten in order to efficacious.
Here is also protestant Historian, J.N.D Kelly
"Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior's body and blood" (Early Christian Doctrines, 440)."
"Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior's body and blood" (Early Christian Doctrines, 440)."
They were wrong, it's not cannibalism, very clearly, because a sinner priest with a funny hat and robe cannot miraculously turn bread into the flesh of Jesus Christ.Joe Boudain said:This is from the mid 2nd century; and the guys said it is the "flesh and blood of Jesus who was made flesh". How can you say it's very clearly when we have 1600 years of christendom believing it's the body and the blood of Christ? Many people left because they thought it WAS cannibalism. He let them go. The earliest believers actually discussed whether or not they were lopping off body parts of Christ when they ate the Eucharist, for they understood so well that it WAS the body and blood of Christ.SB 43rd STREET OG said:That is exactly how we take communion, and I have zero issues with what he said. Unless he is saying that he magically turned it into literal flesh and blood, which it simply is not...and that is not the importance of it and was never intended to be. Very clearly.Joe Boudain said:What should St.Justin the Martyr have followed in the late 2nd century when he was celebrating the mass, and there was no bible?SB 43rd STREET OG said:Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
This is from the year 180ish AD
"Quote:
And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.Quote:
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." (First Apology, 66)"
"This is my flesh" doesn't mean the bread he gave his followers was literally his flesh. He could have given them his flesh EASILY if he wanted to...if cannibalism was the focus and not the ritual of worship and remembrance.
They pondered whether he had to be sacrificed every mass, or whether his one sacrifice was good for all and echoed throughout eternity.
These are all questions the Church though of and ruled on so that we would have the framework of belief that we have today.
I ask again, how is someone supposed to say it's his body and blood other than "is the flesh and blood of that of Jesus who was made flesh"?
Again, these people would have been very familiar with the passover lamb, that had to be EATEN, not symbolically, but literally eaten in order to efficacious.
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
He is stating the obvious. That ancient Christians believed it to be literal flesh and blood and not figurative as part of an overall greater ritual. If you are focusing on ingesting christ's flesh, then I fear you are distracting away from the true meaning and importance of the spiritual act of communion.Joe Boudain said:
Here is also protestant Historian, J.N.D Kelly
"Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior's body and blood" (Early Christian Doctrines, 440)."
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
Why does all of the early church disagree with you? What does that say about your belief structure? We have Irenaeus, Tertullian, Ignatius on this side, and SB 43 Street OG on this side. Which would have the more orthodox view?SB 43rd STREET OG said:They were wrong, it's not cannibalism, very clearly, because a sinner priest with a funny hat and robe cannot miraculously turn bread into the flesh of Jesus Christ.Joe Boudain said:This is from the mid 2nd century; and the guys said it is the "flesh and blood of Jesus who was made flesh". How can you say it's very clearly when we have 1600 years of christendom believing it's the body and the blood of Christ? Many people left because they thought it WAS cannibalism. He let them go. The earliest believers actually discussed whether or not they were lopping off body parts of Christ when they ate the Eucharist, for they understood so well that it WAS the body and blood of Christ.SB 43rd STREET OG said:That is exactly how we take communion, and I have zero issues with what he said. Unless he is saying that he magically turned it into literal flesh and blood, which it simply is not...and that is not the importance of it and was never intended to be. Very clearly.Joe Boudain said:What should St.Justin the Martyr have followed in the late 2nd century when he was celebrating the mass, and there was no bible?SB 43rd STREET OG said:Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
This is from the year 180ish AD
"Quote:
And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.Quote:
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." (First Apology, 66)"
"This is my flesh" doesn't mean the bread he gave his followers was literally his flesh. He could have given them his flesh EASILY if he wanted to...if cannibalism was the focus and not the ritual of worship and remembrance.
They pondered whether he had to be sacrificed every mass, or whether his one sacrifice was good for all and echoed throughout eternity.
These are all questions the Church though of and ruled on so that we would have the framework of belief that we have today.
I ask again, how is someone supposed to say it's his body and blood other than "is the flesh and blood of that of Jesus who was made flesh"?
Again, these people would have been very familiar with the passover lamb, that had to be EATEN, not symbolically, but literally eaten in order to efficacious.
you are getting very long on sarcasm, and very short on fact
But were they sinners wearing funny hats?
There's nothing funnier (and sadder) that Catholic bashing, especially from those who don't have the foggiest idea what they're babbling about. I say this as a Catholic convert from Southern Baptist who heard similar hogwash when I was younger.SB 43rd STREET OG said:They were wrong, it's not cannibalism, very clearly, because a sinner priest with a funny hat and robe cannot miraculously turn bread into the flesh of Jesus Christ.Joe Boudain said:This is from the mid 2nd century; and the guys said it is the "flesh and blood of Jesus who was made flesh". How can you say it's very clearly when we have 1600 years of christendom believing it's the body and the blood of Christ? Many people left because they thought it WAS cannibalism. He let them go. The earliest believers actually discussed whether or not they were lopping off body parts of Christ when they ate the Eucharist, for they understood so well that it WAS the body and blood of Christ.SB 43rd STREET OG said:That is exactly how we take communion, and I have zero issues with what he said. Unless he is saying that he magically turned it into literal flesh and blood, which it simply is not...and that is not the importance of it and was never intended to be. Very clearly.Joe Boudain said:What should St.Justin the Martyr have followed in the late 2nd century when he was celebrating the mass, and there was no bible?SB 43rd STREET OG said:Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
This is from the year 180ish AD
"Quote:
And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.Quote:
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." (First Apology, 66)"
"This is my flesh" doesn't mean the bread he gave his followers was literally his flesh. He could have given them his flesh EASILY if he wanted to...if cannibalism was the focus and not the ritual of worship and remembrance.
They pondered whether he had to be sacrificed every mass, or whether his one sacrifice was good for all and echoed throughout eternity.
These are all questions the Church though of and ruled on so that we would have the framework of belief that we have today.
I ask again, how is someone supposed to say it's his body and blood other than "is the flesh and blood of that of Jesus who was made flesh"?
Again, these people would have been very familiar with the passover lamb, that had to be EATEN, not symbolically, but literally eaten in order to efficacious.
Wait a minute, so now we're to the point to where you agree the early church believed it was his literal flesh and blood and not figurative, which is what modern Catholics believe. But you're still saying it's a symbol?SB 43rd STREET OG said:He is stating the obvious. That ancient Christians believed it to be literal flesh and blood and not figurative as part of an overall greater ritual. If you are focusing on ingesting christ's flesh, then I fear you are distracting away from the true meaning and importance of the spiritual act of communion.Joe Boudain said:
Here is also protestant Historian, J.N.D Kelly
"Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior's body and blood" (Early Christian Doctrines, 440)."
you're saying it's bread and wine, i'm saying it's the flesh and blood of our Savior, and I'm not the one distancing from the true meaning?
anyway, I notice the protestants have vanished from the thread, but someone answer me.
I'm Justin Martyr, it's the year 155 AD; where is my bible to tell me what to do? I have a bunch of different writings, letters and epistles, I've got the Torah and the Tanakh, but I'm not super happy with the jews right now, because they're trying to kill me, and some of what I've read blames them for the crucifixion of my savior.
What do I do?
I'm Justin Martyr, it's the year 155 AD; where is my bible to tell me what to do? I have a bunch of different writings, letters and epistles, I've got the Torah and the Tanakh, but I'm not super happy with the jews right now, because they're trying to kill me, and some of what I've read blames them for the crucifixion of my savior.
What do I do?
Eat the body of Christ and drink his blood?
Craddle Catholic here but this Pope is a socialist and one of the worst pope's in the history of the church. Not a fan.
I do not know that they do. Christ and his followers at the table were the original church to me...and i think his disciples knew that he wasn't giving them chunks of his flesh and blood. That is was figurative but every bit as significant. A way for them, and those they minister to, to carry out the act of communion for years and even centuries and millennia to come. There are a lot of warped and superstitious beliefs of early churches if you want to go there.Joe Boudain said:Why does all of the early church disagree with you? What does that say about your belief structure? We have Irenaeus, Tertullian, Ignatius on this side, and SB 43 Street OG on this side. Which would have the more orthodox view?SB 43rd STREET OG said:They were wrong, it's not cannibalism, very clearly, because a sinner priest with a funny hat and robe cannot miraculously turn bread into the flesh of Jesus Christ.Joe Boudain said:This is from the mid 2nd century; and the guys said it is the "flesh and blood of Jesus who was made flesh". How can you say it's very clearly when we have 1600 years of christendom believing it's the body and the blood of Christ? Many people left because they thought it WAS cannibalism. He let them go. The earliest believers actually discussed whether or not they were lopping off body parts of Christ when they ate the Eucharist, for they understood so well that it WAS the body and blood of Christ.SB 43rd STREET OG said:That is exactly how we take communion, and I have zero issues with what he said. Unless he is saying that he magically turned it into literal flesh and blood, which it simply is not...and that is not the importance of it and was never intended to be. Very clearly.Joe Boudain said:What should St.Justin the Martyr have followed in the late 2nd century when he was celebrating the mass, and there was no bible?SB 43rd STREET OG said:Do we follow the man made made up rules of various popes and clergy councils throughout the centuries? The same ones who came up with heretical things like "indulgences"? No.Joe Boudain said:Your church does not have apostolic succession, so you have been treating bread and wine like the body and blood of christ, which is pretty heinous. You can't go from "it's just a symbol and it's bread and wine" to "okay so I've been eating the body and blood of the risen lord" on a dime.SB 43rd STREET OG said:OK cool, then I have been eating his literal flesh and drinking his blood this whole time. But I have also been engaging in communion exactly how he and apostles have commanded me too, which is the even more important part. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.Joe Boudain said:It's really not though, it has been understood to be the body and blood of Christ until recent. The protestant reformers believed it was his body and blood until very recent; and it was an innovation to distance themselves from the Church.SB 43rd STREET OG said:No, eating things is not at all important to Christians. It's the mental and spiritual act of reflection and remembrance and focus on Jesus that is important. I am not a trained monkey, I am an advanced spiritual being capable of real worship.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Huh? You believe you are LITERALLY eating his body and drinking his blood? No way.Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:Symbolically? Absolutely, what Christian doesn't believe that?Joe Boudain said:SB 43rd STREET OG said:All things Protestants acknowledge and celebrate and even re-enact. I guess I am wondering how it is exclusive to catholicism?Joe Boudain said:
What is the eucharist and where is it in the bible may be the most Protestant thing I've ever heard.
The last supper? The bread of life discourse in John 6? the passover of the old Testament?
Do you believe it's the flesh and blood of christ? Or is the teaching hard and who can accept it?
Not symbolically, obviously. That's a Protestant invention
Why else would it be so important? You think eating bread and drinking juice is the most important part of being a Christian?
Why didn't Jesus give his men his literal body and blood to drink of rather than bread and fruit of the vine? Because the focus is on the ritual and it's significance...not on what substances we are ingesting. It is crazy what yall are taught in Catholic school and Mass...and so distant from what the original intent was on many things.
The passover lamb had to be eaten if the curse of God were to pass over that house; just as the flesh and blood of the paschal lamb has to be eaten for eternal life.
Read the words of John 6, if Jesus had wanted to tell you "no, really my flesh is actually food and my blood is actually drink" what words should he have used instead? If it was really a symbol why didn't he tell those that left "guys, chill out, it's a symbol" as he had in the past whenever his parables were misunderstood?
Making sure you are of sound mind and in a good place spiritually to focus on the process is very important. It is not something to be done flippantly or out of habit or as a reflex. It is the most serious part of worship.Quote:
1 Corinthians 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
How do you receive the bread? How do you receive the wine? What happens with the leftovers, that will tell you what your church really thinks about the bread and wine, it's likely thrown away and put back in the fridge.
We follow the Bible...not how it is dictated by men who are no better than you or I in the eyes of God. I don't know how to be more clear. We do not follow your manmade non-divine rules.
The substance I am ingesting is irrelevant. As irrelevant as where your church bought yours or how they dispose of it.
This is from the year 180ish AD
"Quote:
And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.Quote:
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." (First Apology, 66)"
"This is my flesh" doesn't mean the bread he gave his followers was literally his flesh. He could have given them his flesh EASILY if he wanted to...if cannibalism was the focus and not the ritual of worship and remembrance.
They pondered whether he had to be sacrificed every mass, or whether his one sacrifice was good for all and echoed throughout eternity.
These are all questions the Church though of and ruled on so that we would have the framework of belief that we have today.
I ask again, how is someone supposed to say it's his body and blood other than "is the flesh and blood of that of Jesus who was made flesh"?
Again, these people would have been very familiar with the passover lamb, that had to be EATEN, not symbolically, but literally eaten in order to efficacious.
you are getting very long on sarcasm, and very short on fact
The fact that you think your priest, who is definitely not free from blemish, and may have even committed very dark and twisted sins, can miraculously change the bread and wine they purchase as monthly overhead into the actual flesh of Jesus, just speaks to how warped/astray the Catholic machine has gotten over the years.
Let me ask you this...if your priest diddles himself to other men or has h ad sexual relations with boys, can he still perform magic tricks and turn grocery bought goods into flesh and blood...or does he condemn the whole congregation, unbeknownst to them? I am sure there is some manmade loophole built in for this that cams about in 600AD or something? There's always a loophole...indulgences etc.
Have you heard of indulgences?
Agnes Moffitt Rollin 60's - RIP Casper and Lil Ricky - FREE GOOFY AND LUCKY!
Indulge me.
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