Any republican with a brain knew then that certifying a fraudulent election resulting in putting Marxists in charge of this country would be the end of this country.

Pence presided over the count. He had every right to send it back to states that didn't follow their own election laws. Especially when those states sent congress two sets of electoral votes. Even if the law wasn't crystal clear on that, it certainly wasn't crystal clear that Pence didn't have the right to send the electoral votes back. The fate of the country fell solely on him and he killed it.

there were several, that process was interrupted

Quote:

---

Pence presided over the count. He had every right to send it back to states that didn't follow their own election laws.

---

Very fake news

Quote:

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Especially when those states sent congress two sets of electoral votes.

---

Here is list of states that sent two sets:




























none

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

Especially when those states sent congress two sets of electoral votes.

---

Here is list of states that sent two sets:




























none

---

Yeah. The first failure. Governors didn't care about election integrity and refused to call Special Sessions.

If they had? Could easily have been competing slates of electors.

cevans_40 said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

damiond said:

---

Following the most corrupt election in American history this is the reported conversation from the book Peril
Oval Office Jan 5
Trump: If these people say you had the power, wouldn't you want to?
Pence: I wouldn't want any one person to have that authority.
Trump: But wouldn't it be almost cool to have that power?
Pence: No, I've done everything I could and then some to find a way around this. It's simply not possible.
Trump: No, no, no! You don't understand, Mike. You can do this. I don't want to be your friend anymore if you don't do this."
And one spineless idiot calls another for advice
Quayle: Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away.
Pence: You don't know the position I'm in.
Quayle: I do know the position you're in. I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That's all you do. You have no power.
Phone call Jan 6
Trump: If you don't do it, I picked the wrong man four years ago. You're going to wimp out.
Trump interview in June 2021
Brody: What's your take on Mike Pence and what's the relationship like?
Trump: Well, I've always liked Mike and I'm very disappointed that he didn't send it back to the legislatures when you have more votes than you have voters in some cases, and when you have the kind of things that were known then. I was disappointed that he didn't send it back. I felt that he had the right to send it back. He should have sent it back. That's my opinion. I think you may have found that you would have had a different president right now had he sent them back.

Mike failed to do his duty. Mike failed America. Mike is a traitor

---

Can you specifically link what could have been done to get Pence to make Trump President?


I know you will ignore this, but what should he have done that is legal?

---

At a bare minimum, he could tell the people of the United States the truth.

If there were true corruption, we should know about it. And no one can convince me that the general public votes damn near 50/50 but mail in ballots are somehow 2-1 favoring the democrats.

---

I really can't believe this is sinister to you. Trump flat out pleaded with his supporters to not vote by mail. The Dems did the opposite. Biden outperformed Trump in mail in ballots across the country and this was not a surprise.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-absentee-voting-looked-like-in-all-50-states/

damiond said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Pence could not "send it back to legislatures"

---

That would have happened if he refused to certify an election full of fraud.

---

So should the Democrat VP send it back to the states if the Republican candidate wins in 2024? Just claim that it was fraud and refuse to accept the electoral votes regardless of what the law and the Constitution say?

That's what you are advocating.

Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

---

Why is it always the people trump selected that get blamed, never the person doing the selecting? How many people that he appointed, or put on his ticket, has he called morons/cowards/traitors?


There was never a scenario in which trump would have remained president following the calling of georgia and arizona. I think the election was swung with mail in ballots and vote harvesting, but this narrative is nuts.

---

What is vote harvesting?

Mail in ballots are perfectly legal in many states. So is ballot harvesting legal to some degree in nearly every state.

eric76 said:

---

Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

---

Why is it always the people trump selected that get blamed, never the person doing the selecting? How many people that he appointed, or put on his ticket, has he called morons/cowards/traitors?


There was never a scenario in which trump would have remained president following the calling of georgia and arizona. I think the election was swung with mail in ballots and vote harvesting, but this narrative is nuts.

---

What is vote harvesting?

Mail in ballots are perfectly legal in many states. So is ballot harvesting legal to some degree in nearly every state.

---

And you claim to not be a liberal Biden voter.

eric76 said:

---

Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

---

Why is it always the people trump selected that get blamed, never the person doing the selecting? How many people that he appointed, or put on his ticket, has he called morons/cowards/traitors?


There was never a scenario in which trump would have remained president following the calling of georgia and arizona. I think the election was swung with mail in ballots and vote harvesting, but this narrative is nuts.

---

What is vote harvesting?

Mail in ballots are perfectly legal in many states. So is ballot harvesting legal to some degree in nearly every state.

---

Yes. I seem to remember that time when the pills closed, and a Democrat was up by 2 points, then through some miracle, a few truckloads of ballots were discovered that gave the republican candidate the miracle victory!

Oh wait.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

---

Why is it always the people trump selected that get blamed, never the person doing the selecting? How many people that he appointed, or put on his ticket, has he called morons/cowards/traitors?


There was never a scenario in which trump would have remained president following the calling of georgia and arizona. I think the election was swung with mail in ballots and vote harvesting, but this narrative is nuts.

---

What is vote harvesting?

Mail in ballots are perfectly legal in many states. So is ballot harvesting legal to some degree in nearly every state.

---

And you claim to not be a liberal Biden voter.

---

Do you have the foggiest idea what ballot harvesting is?

eric76 said:

---

Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

---

Why is it always the people trump selected that get blamed, never the person doing the selecting? How many people that he appointed, or put on his ticket, has he called morons/cowards/traitors?


There was never a scenario in which trump would have remained president following the calling of georgia and arizona. I think the election was swung with mail in ballots and vote harvesting, but this narrative is nuts.

---

What is vote harvesting?

Mail in ballots are perfectly legal in many states. So is ballot harvesting legal to some degree in nearly every state.

---

crap like she did

https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/i-lied-woman-at-center-of-voter-fraud-accusations-speaks-out-says-none-of-it-was-true

Quote:

---

In their story, they showed this undercover video of Rodriguez claiming that several candidates had paid her money to engage in various forms of voter fraud, including helping harvest ballots here in Bexar County.

Ballot harvesting is when a third-party gets a complete ballot and delivers it to an election official or a post office.

The allegations were wide ranging, and included ballot harvesting, but also included buying gifts for voters and persuading them to change votes.

---

eric76 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

---

Why is it always the people trump selected that get blamed, never the person doing the selecting? How many people that he appointed, or put on his ticket, has he called morons/cowards/traitors?


There was never a scenario in which trump would have remained president following the calling of georgia and arizona. I think the election was swung with mail in ballots and vote harvesting, but this narrative is nuts.

---

What is vote harvesting?

Mail in ballots are perfectly legal in many states. So is ballot harvesting legal to some degree in nearly every state.

---

And you claim to not be a liberal Biden voter.

---

Do you have the foggiest idea what ballot harvesting is?

---

I'm not the one asking the question hoss, you are.

Sully Penny said:

---

IronAg45 said:

---

Sully Penny said:

---

IronAg45 said:

---

Sully Penny said:

---

I disagree with the OP. The election was fair and it was Trump who was trying to steal it. Pence was a "yes man" enabler until the very end, and couldn't believe how Trump turned on him for having integrity instead of blind loyalty to one man over the U.S. Constitution.

Pence finally acted like a patriot.

---

It's funny how quickly the left went from calling Pence a homophobic psycho to a patriot.

---

1) I'm not left.
2) He's not homophobic, he's prejudiced against homosexuals.
3) Neither he nor Trump are psycho, though Trump is either a narcissistic sociopath or just acts like one, all the time, throughout his adult life.
4) Pence did finally turn into a patriot but it took a long time.

---

Let me guess, you voted for biden only because you couldn't stand Trumps mean tweets? You never-trumpers and your closet leftism.

---

No, although Trump's tweets ranged from funny to classless to ignorant to embarrassing to downright stupid. I voted for Biden because I believe he is, by far, the lesser of two evils, and that our democratic republic is still endangered by Trump. McConnell, McCarthy, Graham, etc., could have made a clean break and get the party back on solid ground, but they didn't.

Also, I was not a never-Trumper until I recognized that he was fatally flawed as a leader, and this was about a month before the election in 2016. If he gets cured of sociopathy and narcissism I'll be happy and eager to change my view there.

---

"Look how morally superior I am."

Tanya 93 said:

---

cevans_40 said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

damiond said:

---

Following the most corrupt election in American history this is the reported conversation from the book Peril
Oval Office Jan 5
Trump: If these people say you had the power, wouldn't you want to?
Pence: I wouldn't want any one person to have that authority.
Trump: But wouldn't it be almost cool to have that power?
Pence: No, I've done everything I could and then some to find a way around this. It's simply not possible.
Trump: No, no, no! You don't understand, Mike. You can do this. I don't want to be your friend anymore if you don't do this."
And one spineless idiot calls another for advice
Quayle: Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away.
Pence: You don't know the position I'm in.
Quayle: I do know the position you're in. I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That's all you do. You have no power.
Phone call Jan 6
Trump: If you don't do it, I picked the wrong man four years ago. You're going to wimp out.
Trump interview in June 2021
Brody: What's your take on Mike Pence and what's the relationship like?
Trump: Well, I've always liked Mike and I'm very disappointed that he didn't send it back to the legislatures when you have more votes than you have voters in some cases, and when you have the kind of things that were known then. I was disappointed that he didn't send it back. I felt that he had the right to send it back. He should have sent it back. That's my opinion. I think you may have found that you would have had a different president right now had he sent them back.

Mike failed to do his duty. Mike failed America. Mike is a traitor

---

Can you specifically link what could have been done to get Pence to make Trump President?


I know you will ignore this, but what should he have done that is legal?

---

At a bare minimum, he could tell the people of the United States the truth.

If there were true corruption, we should know about it. And no one can convince me that the general public votes damn near 50/50 but mail in ballots are somehow 2-1 favoring the democrats.

---

Corruption should be known

What could he have done on January 6th?
How could he change the votes to put Trump on office?

---

Not real sure but I am certain it would have been labeled "inciting an insurrection" if he had done it properly.

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

Gaw617 said:

---

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

False

BusterAg said:

---

2) announcing we were leaving NATO - No he didn't, he threatened to if the EU didn't pay their way.

---

NATO and the EU aren't the same entities. Really shows lack of important knowledge when discussing this.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

Interesting how I asked what Constitutionally Pence could do, and no one has a specific, legal answer

---

I don't think posters here like feeding your thread derailing anymore. There is plenty of commentary on your question in this thread.

There is no legal answer because it didn't happen and never has. Legality is based on precedence. AS far as the constitution goes he could have just refused to count the votes of the states in questions, I think that is the basics behind what people are positing in this thread and abroad on the subject.

You may argue that isn't legal but it certainly isn't illegal and it could have held the feet to the fire of the dems and usurpers. That's what we wanted instead of just blindly accepting a circus of an election because Pence wanted to play nice.

Pence is a ***** that didn't want to get his hands dirty and his career is properly finished because of it.

---

Here is the start of the law about counting the votes. Note that I highlighted some words here:

Quote:

---

Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o'clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any.

---

In legal analysis, shall has a very specific meaning.

Why didn't McConnel just fail to call congress into session? Why didn't the Senate just refuse to appoint tellers?

Not counting the votes when that is something that the VP shall do would have been illegal. That is as clear as day. If any of the lawyers in here want to correct me, please do. You don't need "precedent" to determine that. It's legal analysis 101.

What you are wishing Pence would have done is illegal. It's not that it wouldn't be following congressional rules. It would have been illegal. against the law. breaking the law. not following the law. an illegal abuse of power. a violation of election law. not within the VP's legal power. How many times does this have to be repeated?

I don't want ANY DC politicians to get away with ANY illegal actions when it comes to determining the winner of an election. I don't trust any of them as much as I trust the law.

I favor politicians who put the rule of law over politics. That is what Pence did. That is why I am a fan.

None of that excuses the rampant, documented fraud on election night. But, the correct remedies to that were well reviewed by hawg, and I agree with her that the wimpiest of the bunch were the judges who hid beneath their gowns as opposed to addressing the issues of rampant illegal activities by voting officials.

Finally, there is this: "isn't legal but it certainly isn't illegal"

This ranks right up there with:
It depends on what your definition of is, is.
or
That was just rhetorical advocacy.

BusterAg said:

---

Gaw617 said:

---

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

---

You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Gaw617 said:

---

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

---

You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

---

Your post is 100% bull *****

TikkaShooter said:

---

False

---

Lol.

So, for example, if election laws in a state say that absentee ballots cannot be counted until election day, and they were counted before election day, against election laws, would you consider that an illegal circumvention of an internal control?

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Gaw617 said:

---

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

---

You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

---

Your post is 100% bull *****

---

Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

Old RV Ag said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

2) announcing we were leaving NATO - No he didn't, he threatened to if the EU didn't pay their way.

---

NATO and the EU aren't the same entities. Really shows lack of important knowledge when discussing this.

---

Thanks grammar nazi.

You really busted me there.

Who are the largest contributors to NATO, outside of the US and Canada? Are those countries located in Europe?

Why are you so quick to assume this was lack of knowledge as opposed to shorthand?

You know, psychologists will tell people that assuming the worst interpretation of a statement is a form of passive aggressiveness, and a warning sign of feelings of personal inadequacy.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Gaw617 said:

---

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

---

You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

---

Your post is 100% bull *****

---

Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

---

So much this. It's disturbing how obtuse the people are who make these claims. What's amazing is the thinking that the right/Republicans don't try to cheat as well.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Gaw617 said:

---

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

---

You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

---

Your post is 100% bull *****

---

Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

---

Yea, there is plenty evidence of fraud out there. Proving it in court is a whole other issue.

However the biggest "fraud" is vote harvesting through mail in voting which's has been illegally deemed legal by laws changed last minute.

Good luck with your head up your ass in denial.

BusterAg said:

---

Old RV Ag said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

2) announcing we were leaving NATO - No he didn't, he threatened to if the EU didn't pay their way.

---

NATO and the EU aren't the same entities. Really shows lack of important knowledge when discussing this.

---

Thanks grammar nazi.

You really busted me there.

Who are the largest contributors to NATO, outside of the US and Canada? Are those countries located in Europe?

Why are you so quick to assume this was lack of knowledge as opposed to shorthand?

You know, psychologists will tell people that assuming the worst interpretation of a statement is a form of passive aggressiveness, and a warning sign of feelings of personal inadequacy.

---

That's hilarious - NATO and EU is just "grammar" - and, you know, psychologists would say that people who make such long winded explanations as above are really trying to convince themselves that it wasn't a big deal as opposed to trying to convince others.

There is a distinct difference between evidence of election malfeasance, and evidence of fraudulently changing or miscounting votes.

I don't think that anyone is disputing the latter has never surfaced. That is where the courts and the media have focused. There is just no proof that some Biden votes should have been Trump votes, or that Trump votes were thrown away.

Election malfeasance that breaks the law is still fraud, even if you can't prove that votes were changed or miscounted. I think that anyone that truly believes that there is no evidence of election day malfeasance is the delusional one.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Gaw617 said:

---

I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

---

You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

---

Your post is 100% bull *****

---

Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

---

Yea, there is plenty out there evidence of fraud. Proving it in court is a whole other issue.

However the biggest "fraud" is vote harvesting through mail in voting which's has been illegally deemed legal by laws changes last minute.

Good luck with your head up your ass in denial.

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Doubling down on saying dumbass things.

Old RV Ag said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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BusterAg said:

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Gaw617 said:

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I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

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There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

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You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

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Your post is 100% bull *****

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Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

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Yea, there is plenty out there evidence of fraud. Proving it in court is a whole other issue.

However the biggest "fraud" is vote harvesting through mail in voting which's has been illegally deemed legal by laws changes last minute.

Good luck with your head up your ass in denial.

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Doubling down on saying dumbass things.

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You must be buddies with eric and not understand harvesting as well. What i stated is fact.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Your post is 100% bull *****

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Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

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That doesn't make them right. And self-preservation is usually a more important motivator than politics. They were collectively cowards.

Or, maybe you believe that the court system is infallible? SCOTUS should be 100% trusted and agreed with in all of their future findings?

BusterAg said:

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There is a distinct difference between evidence of election malfeasance, and evidence of fraudulently changing or miscounting votes.

I don't think that anyone is disputing the latter has never surfaced. That is where the courts and the media have focused. There is just no proof that some Biden votes should have been Trump votes, or that Trump votes were thrown away.

Election malfeasance that breaks the law is still fraud, even if you can't prove that votes were changed or miscounted. I think that anyone that truly believes that there is no evidence of election day malfeasance is the delusional one.

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The delusional ones are the ones who think there isn't malfeasance by both sides.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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BusterAg said:

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Gaw617 said:

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I am glad Pence had enough wisdom to do what he did. If Trump had any actual evidence of fraud he should have released the kraken well before the certification of electors. If the conversation between Trump and Pence is accurate that doesn't make Trump look good. Bottom line is we have no proof that is sufficient to go all the way to the Supreme Court that there was fraud.

---

There was plenty evidence of fraud.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of voting laws broken by officials. Lots of voting internal controls that were ignored or purposely circumvented by voting officials. That is fraud. Many people have been fired over breaking those laws. They should have gone to jail.

In fact, if any public company were to treat internal accounting controls the way that voting officials treated internal controls, the CEO and the CFO of that company would be doing time in a federal prison for violating Sarbanes Oxley, for committing fraud.

Ignoring internal controls is fraud. Lots of voting officials ignored or circumvented internal controls. So there is plenty of evidence of fraud.

---

You mean lots and lots of made up **** by clickbait scammers on twitter looking to swindle republicans. Not a single election fraud conspiracy theory every came close to being proven, and was rejected from a hundred courts, by the Supreme Court, and by Trumps own cabinet members.

And of course, all the red governors and state officials in Georgia and Arizona all said no evidence of election fraud was found despite tens of millions in investigation, but hey clickbait scammers are still going strong! Even the follow up Georgia Senator election, the most watched in history showed zero election fraud. Hilarious.

---

Your post is 100% bull *****

---

Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

---

Yea, there is plenty evidence of fraud out there. Proving it in court is a whole other issue.

However the biggest "fraud" is vote harvesting through mail in voting which's has been illegally deemed legal by laws changed last minute.

Good luck with your head up your ass in denial.

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Yep made up evidence usually fails in court. Spectacularly. Which is why they were rejected from 60+ courts.

About ballot harvesting, you do know Georgia banned that a long time ago, and Dems still won. The two Senator seats as well.

Keep talking about election fraud and disenfranchising republican voters. Bat**** insane.

BusterAg said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Your post is 100% bull *****

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Feel free to take all that twitter evidence to a judge. By the way, multiple Trump appointed judges also rejected those idiot lawsuits, just FYI.

Good luck!

---

That doesn't make them right. And self-preservation is usually a more important motivator than politics. They were collectively cowards.

Or, maybe you believe that the court system is infallible? SCOTUS should be 100% trusted and agreed with in all of their future findings?

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Of of course courts are dumb and failable, but every single relevant court spectacularly ruled against any election fraud conspiracy.

When every ****ty court high and low yields the same result, normal people should probably question if the lies they're being fed are *****