I was looking for this exact video to post.ABATTBQ87 said:
There was a time when Americans loved a winner
The tearing down of Kerri Strug
12,739 Views |
155 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by Aggie Joe 93
BigOil said:StandUpforAmerica said:
It's called the pussification of America.
And if Strug would have collapsed the landing with a double compound leg fracture???
Isn't that suppose to look like this?
AnD If StRuG wOuLd HaVe CoLlaPsEd tHe LaNdInG wItH a DoUbLe ComPoUnD LeG fRaCtUre???
Malibu2 said:1) Lol snopesHorn_in_Aggieland said:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kerri-strug-usa-gold/
According to this it was not known at the time if the USA would have won gold without Strug's vault.
2) Great point. So let's remove the "this was all pointless" from the argument and view it from what actually happened.
Knowing Snopes, they may revisit this and memory hole it.
Speaking of facts, you have made two posts that are incorrect with respect to winning the gold. At the time she made the final jump, the Gold was by no means guaranteed. It was only at the end of the competition after all competitors had completed that the numbers revealed that Kerri's jump was not necessary to win the Gold.Malibu2 said:No, it's a new lens from which to view the same facts.Squadron7 said:
Just to re-adjust and re-direct the thread....this isn't about Biles....this thread is about the active revision of history that robs Kerri Strug of her own agency and her heroic feats to fit a contemporary narrative.
1. How much agency did she really have in that toxic culture?
2. How heroic is it to vault on a broken foot when the outcome, winning, is the same no matter what? Is it heroism or foolishness?
You're using the knowledge of hindsight to bolster your "facts".
Edit: I posted this before reading through the rest of the thread. My point stands, but otherwise, carry on. Kudos to Malibu for owning up to the mistake.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
Joined:
Jun 24, 2001
Posts:
17,334
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Comnici GOAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The completed vault received a score of 9.712, mathematically guaranteeing the Americans the gold medal, though while it was not known at the time with Roza Galieva of Russia having not yet completed her floor routine, the Americans would still have won the gold by a margin of 0.309 points had Strug not performed a second vault."Malibu2 said:Revisionist history should be avoided. If I'm factually wrong that she didn't know whether or not her vault was necessary, let's let it all be out. I don't want to twist the play by play and what did we know and when did we know it to make a point.Tex117 said:She didn't know that at the time of the vault. This is revisionist b.s. You are trying to take away one of the greatest moments in sports history.Malibu2 said:
Like many things that are all or nothing, I think this story and the Simone Bile story fits. My hot takes:
1. The Strug vault while courageous, was not a make-or-break ass on the line for the gold moment. Had she not done it she would have still gotten the gold. Asking someone to vault on a broken leg with no change to the expected payoff isn't courageous, it's toxic. I think it's ok to reevaluate what coaches asked an 18 year old to do and why they asked her to do it. If that was my daughter, I would be pissed.
2. Simone Biles can quit for her mental health. I have zero problems with that except...
3. You quit before you get to the Olympics. The second you sign up and take the spot, money, is the second you commit to being a competitor. Nobody forced her to do that. Quitting literally during the finals is peak selfishness. I have zero sympathy for someone that commits to something that high stakes and pulls out when faced with adversity.
Tl;dr - Rethinking the toxic culture of what Kerri did does not make what Biles did ok.
After we do that though, it's worth asking whether or not that should still be considered the greatest moment in sports history, or a cautionary tale of toxic culture and the sacrifice of life and limb.
People make references to Rudder. I'm suggesting a better analogy may be the WW1 soldiers at the beginning of the war, medals glistening bayonets polished, charging against the machine gun. Valor and heroism are worth defending, always. Pointless sacrifice is not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerri_Strug
So, you first made up the fact that "she didn't have to vault" without even doing a modicum of research. At the time, she did. You just wanted it to be true. (And with it...minimizing her accomplishment...got it).
Literally, think about what you are doing. You want to victimize Strugg saying her accomplishment was not her own. That she only did it because she was a victim. That she didn't have agency. That takes HER moment away. That says that even thought she did great things, it doesn't really count because...well...it was toxic and that she wouldn't have done it but for abuse.
Eff off with this. I know you are better than making this assertion. You are a good poster.
Want to talk about abuses in gymnastics, sure. Lets have it. But using that in anyway to discredit what Strugg accomplished is absolutely b.s. done by losers who cant appreciate what true greatness is.
instead the won the gold for americaBigOil said:StandUpforAmerica said:
It's called the pussification of America.
And if Strug would have collapsed the landing with a double compound leg fracture???
I apologize for being the first poster in the history of TexAgs to be quicker to the keyboard than the library while making a post. And in fairness to me, I owned that pretty quickly in the post you quoted.Tex117 said:"The completed vault received a score of 9.712, mathematically guaranteeing the Americans the gold medal, though while it was not known at the time with Roza Galieva of Russia having not yet completed her floor routine, the Americans would still have won the gold by a margin of 0.309 points had Strug not performed a second vault."Malibu2 said:Revisionist history should be avoided. If I'm factually wrong that she didn't know whether or not her vault was necessary, let's let it all be out. I don't want to twist the play by play and what did we know and when did we know it to make a point.Tex117 said:She didn't know that at the time of the vault. This is revisionist b.s. You are trying to take away one of the greatest moments in sports history.Malibu2 said:
Like many things that are all or nothing, I think this story and the Simone Bile story fits. My hot takes:
1. The Strug vault while courageous, was not a make-or-break ass on the line for the gold moment. Had she not done it she would have still gotten the gold. Asking someone to vault on a broken leg with no change to the expected payoff isn't courageous, it's toxic. I think it's ok to reevaluate what coaches asked an 18 year old to do and why they asked her to do it. If that was my daughter, I would be pissed.
2. Simone Biles can quit for her mental health. I have zero problems with that except...
3. You quit before you get to the Olympics. The second you sign up and take the spot, money, is the second you commit to being a competitor. Nobody forced her to do that. Quitting literally during the finals is peak selfishness. I have zero sympathy for someone that commits to something that high stakes and pulls out when faced with adversity.
Tl;dr - Rethinking the toxic culture of what Kerri did does not make what Biles did ok.
After we do that though, it's worth asking whether or not that should still be considered the greatest moment in sports history, or a cautionary tale of toxic culture and the sacrifice of life and limb.
People make references to Rudder. I'm suggesting a better analogy may be the WW1 soldiers at the beginning of the war, medals glistening bayonets polished, charging against the machine gun. Valor and heroism are worth defending, always. Pointless sacrifice is not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerri_Strug
So, you first made up the fact that "she didn't have to vault" without even doing a modicum of research. At the time, she did. You just wanted it to be true. (And with it...minimizing her accomplishment...got it).
Literally, think about what you are doing. You want to victimize Strugg saying her accomplishment was not her own. That she only did it because she was a victim. That she didn't have agency. That takes HER moment away. That says that even thought she did great things, it doesn't really count because...well...it was toxic and that she wouldn't have done it but for abuse.
Eff off with this. I know you are better than making this assertion. You are a good poster.
Want to talk about abuses in gymnastics, sure. Lets have it. But using that in anyway to discredit what Strugg accomplished is absolutely b.s. done by losers.
As for minimizing her accomplishment, that's not a fair take either. She has more grit than I do, I wouldn't have even gotten to the point where competing on a bum ankle was even an option. But there is a very fine line between guts/glory and foolishness, and even the article portraying the actual play by play on Snopes makes it clear that the Russians would have had to be basically flawless to get the gold and she had 30 seconds to make a choice.
Given the totality of evidence, I think you have to play for the win there and Strug is on the correct side of heroism.
Quote:
I apologize for being the first poster in the history of TexAgs to be quicker to the keyboard than the library while making a post.
OMG!! First you try to dismantle Kerri Strug's accomplishment and now you try to steal mine!!!!!!11!!
Nothing gives a leftist a bigger hard on than telling people it's okay to give up and that we all have to not only support their quitting, we need to subsidize it as well
They are the party of failure
They are the party of failure
ThunderCougarFalconBird
Joined:
Oct 10, 2006
Posts:
48,671
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If the US was the UK, the tabloid press would absolutely be roasting Biles non-stop for weeks and there would be literally zero other narrative. The problem is that NBC massively overpaid for its Olympic media rights even before Biles cracked and fell apart. Now they're down one of the biggest stars that they were going to feature non-stop during the games. So they came up with the patently stupid mental health angle to have a reason to keep Biles in front of the camera and called in every favor from everyone in the American press to run with it. Sort of a "we all sink or swim on this one" type of sell, I guess.
This is the most made up, panty waste, liberal spin I have ever read. Just by reading your drivel it's pretty clear you had no idea who she was until this beta male's article came out and introduced you. Go learn history. Real history.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Bad-ass no doubt. But, nah. You're reading more into this than is there.Squadron7 said:aquarian said:
Yeah - I just don't see how this is "tearing down" Strug.
It more than surmises that two-time Olympian Strug possessed no agency herself and was just another victim to be exploited.
Strug is a bad-ass, not a victim.
As a man is, so he sees. - William Blake
Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding me? Have you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to tolerate and deal with in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
And please go back to where you came from, TXTransplant.mazag08 said:This is the most made up, panty waste, liberal spin I have ever read. Just by reading your drivel it's pretty clear you had no idea who she was until this beta male's article came out and introduced you. Go learn history. Real history.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
This is only because Bikes is black and Strug was white.
The reactions to Biles would've been completely different from both viewpoints.
The reactions to Biles would've been completely different from both viewpoints.
Faustus said:My Name Is Judge said:
Proud to know my children are gonna dominate all these pathetic liberal betas infesting this country
All it's going to take is five gold medals for your kids to stick it to Biles.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding mehave you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to endure in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
That is not the point I was making and you know it.
You are desperate just like Malibu to discredit Strug because it fits in your narrative of failure being rewarded. And that out of such a toxic atmosphere, greatness was achieved. (Not saying they should keep on abusingso I'll stop you right there). Greatness that surpasses mere sports.
(Nobody is saying that there wasn't abuses and that this should be addressed. But you are using this to some say what Strugg did wasn't entirely her own decision and thus taking away her accomplishment).
I'm glad they are speaking out. That's good! There shouldn't be abuses of any kind.but that's not really what is being discussed now is it? It's a smoke and mirrors ploy to detract from the real issue. That the pressure out on Biles made her crack. And now the left needs to defend Biles by tearing down Strug as she was and example of true grit, courage, and toughness not displayed by Biles at this olympics.
Speaking of unfair narratives, might want to check yours. Our narrative isn't that what Strug did wasn't gritty, greatness, and one of tremendous intestinal fortitude worthy of respect.Tex117 said:TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding mehave you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to endure in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
That is not the point I was making and you know it.
You are desperate just like Malibu to discredit Strug because it fits in your narrative of failure being rewarded. And that out of such a toxic atmosphere, greatness was achieved. (Not saying they should keep on abusingso I'll stop you right there). Greatness that surpasses mere sports.
(Nobody is saying that there wasn't abuses and that this should be addressed. But you are using this to some say what Strugg did wasn't entirely her own decision and thus taking away her accomplishment).
mazag08 said:This is the most made up, panty waste, liberal spin I have ever read. Just by reading your drivel it's pretty clear you had no idea who she was until this beta male's article came out and introduced you. Go learn history. Real history.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
I'm out. This is one of the most obnoxious posts I've ever read here.
I'm 43 years old and have a very vivid memory of watching Kerri Strug doing that vault on live tv. I remember seeing her crying and saying she was in pain. I remember holding my breath when she did the vault a second time. And I remember Karoyli holding her like up like a hero (which she was, in my eyes( after she finished the second vault.
I remember also simultaneously thinking how proud they both must be of her accomplishment AND wondering if he knowingly endangered her health and safety and if she was too scared/intimidated to refuse. And I remember thinking how lucky she was that she finished the competition without a worse injury.
Maybe you should go relearn history considering that nearly every girl who has competed on the last few Olympic teams was abused by Nasser while under the watch of the Karolyis.
I am in awe of these girls/women but have absolutely ZERO respect for the Karolyis. They allowed dozens of girls to be violated to protect their own careers, fortune, and reputation.
Malibu2 said:Speaking of unfair narratives, might want to check yours. Our narrative isn't that what Strug did wasn't gritty, greatness, and one of tremendous intestinal fortitude worthy of respect.Tex117 said:TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding mehave you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to endure in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
That is not the point I was making and you know it.
You are desperate just like Malibu to discredit Strug because it fits in your narrative of failure being rewarded. And that out of such a toxic atmosphere, greatness was achieved. (Not saying they should keep on abusingso I'll stop you right there). Greatness that surpasses mere sports.
(Nobody is saying that there wasn't abuses and that this should be addressed. But you are using this to some say what Strugg did wasn't entirely her own decision and thus taking away her accomplishment).
You just say all that really doesn't count because of abuse.
TXTransplant said:mazag08 said:This is the most made up, panty waste, liberal spin I have ever read. Just by reading your drivel it's pretty clear you had no idea who she was until this beta male's article came out and introduced you. Go learn history. Real history.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
I'm out. This is one of the most obnoxious posts I've ever read here.
I'm 43 years old and have a very vivid memory of watching Kerri Strug doing that vault on live tv. I remember seeing her crying and saying she was in pain. I remember holding my breath when she did the vault a second time. And I remember Karoyli holding her like up like a hero (which she was, in my eyes( after she finished the second vault.
I remember also simultaneously thinking how proud they both must be of her accomplishment AND wondering if he knowingly endangered her health and safety and if she was too scared/intimidated to refuse. And I remember thinking how lucky she was that she finished the competition without a worse injury.
Maybe you should go relearn history considering that nearly every girl who has competed on the last few Olympic teams was abused by Nasser while under the watch of the Karolyis.
I am in awe of these girls/women but have absolutely ZERO respect for the Karolyis. They allowed dozens of girls to be violated to protect their own careers, fortune, and reputation.
See above post.
I said it doesn't count? Huh, news to me. If you're going to harp on my incorrect use of facts, can you maybe hold yourself to the same standard. I did say that it's worth reconsidering whether it was heroism or foolishness, and I stand by that comment. I've passed my judgment that given the totality of evidence in the short window of decision making, it's heroism, but it's very close to the line.Tex117 said:You just say all that really doesn't count because of abuse.Malibu2 said:Speaking of unfair narratives, might want to check yours. Our narrative isn't that what Strug did wasn't gritty, greatness, and one of tremendous intestinal fortitude worthy of respect.Tex117 said:TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding mehave you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to endure in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
That is not the point I was making and you know it.
You are desperate just like Malibu to discredit Strug because it fits in your narrative of failure being rewarded. And that out of such a toxic atmosphere, greatness was achieved. (Not saying they should keep on abusingso I'll stop you right there). Greatness that surpasses mere sports.
(Nobody is saying that there wasn't abuses and that this should be addressed. But you are using this to some say what Strugg did wasn't entirely her own decision and thus taking away her accomplishment).
Strugg is exactly what the heart of a champion looks like. She was in agony, but put her team and country in front of her pain.
She could have also known that that might be her last chance. Hate to break it to the weenies out there but gymnasts have major injuries. Shocker.
She could have also known that that might be her last chance. Hate to break it to the weenies out there but gymnasts have major injuries. Shocker.
Tex117 said:TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding mehave you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to endure in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
That is not the point I was making and you know it.
You are desperate just like Malibu to discredit Strug because it fits in your narrative of failure being rewarded. And that out of such a toxic atmosphere, greatness was achieved. (Not saying they should keep on abusingso I'll stop you right there). Greatness that surpasses mere sports.
(Nobody is saying that there wasn't abuses and that this should be addressed. But you are using this to some say what Strugg did wasn't entirely her own decision and thus taking away her accomplishment).
I'm glad they are speaking out. That's good! There shouldn't be abuses of any kind.but that's not really what is being discussed now is it? It's a smoke and mirrors ploy to detract from the real issue. That the pressure out on Biles made her crack. And now the left needs to defend Biles by tearing down Strug as she was and example of true grit, courage, and toughness not displayed by Biles at this olympics.
No where in my post do I discredit Strug. You are reading your own biases into my post (and insulting me personally while doing so). I'm looking at this through a totally different lens that what you are.
Strug absolutely earned that gold medal with her own talent and determination. Regardless of whether or not she was intimidated or coerced into competing, it was still her talent and determination that "saved the day". Nothing I've said takes away from that.
The point of discussing the abuse isn't to take anything away from the athletes. It's to call out the adults who have spent literally DECADES taking advantage of these girls. No matter how many gold medals they've won, that behavior is immoral and unacceptable. Under no circumstances should we ever tolerate the abuse of children as acceptable in order to develop grit, perseverance, courage, and gold medals.
What Strug did has absolutely ZERO relevance to the decision Biles made. To say that Strug was a hero and Biles was a coward is simply wrong to do based on what we know now.
It's been affirmed that Biles was abused by Nasser. There is no doubt she has sacrificed A LOT for her gymnastics career. No one should be judging her or comparing her to Strug (or anyone else) because you can't ever predict how a person who has had that kind of traumatic experience is going to react.
Maybe in those moments right before the competition she had some sort of flashback or PTSD episode. Maybe however many years of sacrifice and suffering came crashing down. Maybe she was scared she was going to have a panic attack or breakdown - which would absolutely compromise her safety in a competition and cost the team a medal.
Maybe she was just being selfish and didn't want to embarrass herself.
Point is, no one but Biles knows why, and no one else should be making judgements or comparisons, especially of someone we know was abused while pursuing something that she loved and had dedicated her life to.
Seriously, what's the point in publicly shaming a girl/young woman who has already been abused in one of the worst ways possible?
How do you feel about Biles touting herself as the "goat" then backing out of the competition this week?
Wasn't Simone diddled by Larry Nasser. I know the justice department (yes, the left wing Justice dept) just eviscerated the FBIs awful handling/investigation of that case, potentially allowing Nasser to diddle 100 more athletes.
I can't pretend to know what Biles is experiencing mentally. I do know the BLM party line she supported is one that lacks accountability and blames every else, which is the very foundation of mental fragility. I have a very hard time supporting her for that reason.
I can't pretend to know what Biles is experiencing mentally. I do know the BLM party line she supported is one that lacks accountability and blames every else, which is the very foundation of mental fragility. I have a very hard time supporting her for that reason.
We may get to a point where people ask, "how come we don't win as much as we used to". If you are going to win the game, most times you are going to have to "play the game". Meaning you are going to have to make personal, physical and emotional sacrifices to compete with others who are doing the same. It's up to coaches and parents to monitor each person to walk the fine line of pushing the limit and crossing the limit.
chase128 said:
How do you feel about Biles touting herself as the "goat" then backing out of the competition this week?
It's irrelevant to me. The woman literally defies gravity. If she thinks she's not fit to compete, so be it. She's the one hurling her body into the air, so I think she knows best.
My point is that she (and all of her teammates) should be able to make that decision for herself and not be bullied, intimidated, or threatened by anyone into doing something she doesn't feel capable of doing.
And I think there is plenty of evidence telling us that gymnasts HAVE been bullied, coerced, and intimidated. We know they've been sexually abused. From everything I've read, Simone even feeling comfortable enough to make this decision for herself is a huge shift in the "culture" of US gymnastics. I don't think that's a bad thing.
And, if you look at the "bright side", which is what I tend to do, it gave other US gymnasts a chance at the all-around gold - and one of them took it.
As great as Simone is, when I was watching the US trials back in June, I did feel bad for the other girls who don't have gold medals. She is their biggest competition, and Biles literally ran away with the gold in that meet. The gap between her score and the next competitor was huge. She really is a once-in-a-lifetime type of athlete (or freak of nature, if you want to put it that way).
I certainly don't think Simone should have retired just because she's already won gold, but it's nice to see someone else have the opportunity to get some recognition. Simone has really dominated the sport for quite some time, and the media puts all their attention on her. So, what she did created an opportunity for another athlete, and that athlete made the most of it.
Oh, and Simone withdrawing from the competition does not diminish Sunisa Lee's accomplishment anymore than pointing out the history of abuse in US gymnastics diminishes Strug's.
She seemed fine when she was raking in woke money doing Uber eats commercials.
What changed?
Oh ya.. she wasn't going to win. So she quit. Like a typical liberal.
What changed?
Oh ya.. she wasn't going to win. So she quit. Like a typical liberal.
safety guy said:
We may get to a point where people ask, "how come we don't win as much as we used to". If you are going to win the game, most times you are going to have to "play the game". Meaning you are going to have to make personal, physical and emotional sacrifices to compete with others who are doing the same. It's up to coaches and parents to monitor each person to walk the fine line of pushing the limit and crossing the limit.
I've thought about this, too, especially when it comes to competing against athletes from China and Russia. Maybe we will lose a bit of our competitive edge.
Anyone remember in the 80s and 90s when the East German women swimmers kicked our butts because they were all on steroids?
Then there was the big scandal in the 2000s over the Chinese lying about the ages of their gymnasts. I think it's documented they falsified birth certificates to get girls who were too young onto the Olympic team.
We will always be competing against people/countries who either push the boundaries of what we deem to be acceptable behavior or outright cheat.
Like you said, it's up to individuals and their parents to determine what they are willing to put up with, but that what should never include abuse.
Simone and her parents opened a gym in Spring, TX. They are big on "transparency". Parents aren't allowed on the gym floor, but there are viewing windows everywhere. Basically, there is no interaction between a kid and a coach that the parent can't see. Evidently, they felt that this was something that was missing but badly needed in the sport, so they literally built a gym around it. Several of the other girls on the Olympic team moved across the country to train there.
BCG Disciple said:
Wasn't Simone diddled by Larry Nasser. I know the justice department (yes, the left wing Justice dept) just eviscerated the FBIs awful handling/investigation of that case, potentially allowing Nasser to diddle 100 more athletes.
I can't pretend to know what Biles is experiencing mentally. I do know the BLM party line she supported is one that lacks accountability and blames every else, which is the very foundation of mental fragility. I have a very hard time supporting her for that reason.
She's 24 and has won 30 Olympic and World Championship medals. She won four golds at the last Olympics. She's been all-around World Champion five times.
She is the gymnast with the most World medals and most World gold medals. She's the only American female gymnast to win a World medal on every event, and she's won a medal on every Olympic Games and World Championship event.
There is no way she could have accomplished all of that without being incredibly mentally tough. Which is why I tend to think she must have had some sort of breakdown right before the event. She's probably tougher than 99% of the population, but she's still human and not a robot.
Malibu2 said:I said it doesn't count? Huh, news to me. If you're going to harp on my incorrect use of facts, can you maybe hold yourself to the same standard. I did say that it's worth reconsidering whether it was heroism or foolishness, and I stand by that comment. I've passed my judgment that given the totality of evidence in the short window of decision making, it's heroism, but it's very close to the line.Tex117 said:You just say all that really doesn't count because of abuse.Malibu2 said:Speaking of unfair narratives, might want to check yours. Our narrative isn't that what Strug did wasn't gritty, greatness, and one of tremendous intestinal fortitude worthy of respect.Tex117 said:TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding mehave you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to endure in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
That is not the point I was making and you know it.
You are desperate just like Malibu to discredit Strug because it fits in your narrative of failure being rewarded. And that out of such a toxic atmosphere, greatness was achieved. (Not saying they should keep on abusingso I'll stop you right there). Greatness that surpasses mere sports.
(Nobody is saying that there wasn't abuses and that this should be addressed. But you are using this to some say what Strugg did wasn't entirely her own decision and thus taking away her accomplishment).
It was heroic. And heroism is often foolish the only difference is success (most of the time). A silly thing to discuss when talking about Strug
On Joe Rogan's podcast they were saying she takes Ritalin normally, but that she wasn't allowed to take those meds while in Japan due to some law there. I had not heard anything about that so far. Is that legit?
TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:TXTransplant said:Tex117 said:While I don't think any rational human being would advocate for abuse, you are victimizing these athletes to score points on the internet rather than celebrating their accomplishments. We can talk about abuse and mental health...sure...but thats not why you brought this up. You brought this up to somehow minimize what they were able to do...To victimize them...to say their true accomplishments weren't their own. This is pathetic.TXTransplant said:
I've been following this story and these threads, and I think everyone is misinterpreting that guy's take on the events.
It's not a "tearing-down" of Kerri Strug. She is unarguably the "hero" of the situation. I remember watching it live, and it was one of those moments that just gives you chills and brings tears to your eyes.
It's pointing out the intimidation by a much older adult/authority figure of an 18 year old girl. And while 18 might ~technically~ be an adult, she was being intimidated by a coach who had pretty much controlled her entire life during her teenaged years. Who knows what all went on behind the scenes between those girls and the coaches in the years leading up to that one moment we saw on tv. We probably don't want to know.
I'm all for a great perseverance story. But gymnastics is not track and field or swimming. If you lose your focus in a sprint, you just lose to someone who is faster.
A split second loss of focus or a fraction of a misstep in gymnastics could mean paralysis or death. Runners and swimmer simply don't face that risk.
Several of the gymnasts who were coached under the Karolyis have come out and said the environment was physically and emotionally abusive - not including the sexual abuse many of them endured by the team doctor.
Dominique Moceanu has been particularly outspoken about how her body wasn't hers and she was pressured to compete when she was injured.
Kerri Strug herself has come out in support of Biles. You've got to recognize that this is about these girls now being able to assert themselves and make decisions for themselves and their bodies without fear of retribution.
Being an elite athlete is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice. But no one should have to endure abuse of any kind to win a gold medal. And I think that's exactly what these women are saying.
They are making their own decisions, rather than trying to make their coaches, parents, or the American public happy. Because in a few weeks or months, no one is going to care that Simone Biles pulled out of the competition. She is the only one who has to come to terms with that decision. And if she honestly felt the risk (which realistically included death or paralysis) wasn't worth the reward, she should be free to make that choice for herself without having to answer to anyone.
I think this sport (and probably quite a few others) has a very dark underside that includes child abuse, given how young these kids are when they start elite training. That needs to change, and the only way that it will change will be for these girls and women to have and be supported in their autonomy.
Are you kidding mehave you been living under a rock? I'm not victimizing these women. They have identified themselves as victims! A doctor is in jail for sexually abusing almost every girl who completed on the last few US gymnastics Olympic teams.
Do a quick Google search and you'll find plenty of more articles about abuse besides just the ones I linked below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/22585637/gymnastics-tokyo-olympics-2021-abuse-larry-nassar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-23-sp-karolyi23-story.html%3f_amp=true
From that LA Times article:
" Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates."
Just because they were abused doesn't in any way diminish or take away from away their accomplishments. Where in my post did I minimize their accomplishments? How do you even come to that conclusion based on what I said?
However, I did say that enduring abuse - of any kind - should not be accepted as something that you just have to endure in order to become an elite athlete. And I stand by that.
And, you totally missed the point that these girls/women know exactly what dark, ugly things went on behind the scenes. The difference now is, they are brave enough to speak out about it and make their own decisions without being bullied, manipulated, coerced, or punished.
That is not the point I was making and you know it.
You are desperate just like Malibu to discredit Strug because it fits in your narrative of failure being rewarded. And that out of such a toxic atmosphere, greatness was achieved. (Not saying they should keep on abusingso I'll stop you right there). Greatness that surpasses mere sports.
(Nobody is saying that there wasn't abuses and that this should be addressed. But you are using this to some say what Strugg did wasn't entirely her own decision and thus taking away her accomplishment).
I'm glad they are speaking out. That's good! There shouldn't be abuses of any kind.but that's not really what is being discussed now is it? It's a smoke and mirrors ploy to detract from the real issue. That the pressure out on Biles made her crack. And now the left needs to defend Biles by tearing down Strug as she was and example of true grit, courage, and toughness not displayed by Biles at this olympics.
No where in my post do I discredit Strug. You are reading your own biases into my post (and insulting me personally while doing so). I'm looking at this through a totally different lens that what you are.
Strug absolutely earned that gold medal with her own talent and determination. Regardless of whether or not she was intimidated or coerced into competing, it was still her talent and determination that "saved the day". Nothing I've said takes away from that.
The point of discussing the abuse isn't to take anything away from the athletes. It's to call out the adults who have spent literally DECADES taking advantage of these girls. No matter how many gold medals they've won, that behavior is immoral and unacceptable. Under no circumstances should we ever tolerate the abuse of children as acceptable in order to develop grit, perseverance, courage, and gold medals.
What Strug did has absolutely ZERO relevance to the decision Biles made. To say that Strug was a hero and Biles was a coward is simply wrong to do based on what we know now.
It's been affirmed that Biles was abused by Nasser. There is no doubt she has sacrificed A LOT for her gymnastics career. No one should be judging her or comparing her to Strug (or anyone else) because you can't ever predict how a person who has had that kind of traumatic experience is going to react.
Maybe in those moments right before the competition she had some sort of flashback or PTSD episode. Maybe however many years of sacrifice and suffering came crashing down. Maybe she was scared she was going to have a panic attack or breakdown - which would absolutely compromise her safety in a competition and cost the team a medal.
Maybe she was just being selfish and didn't want to embarrass herself.
Point is, no one but Biles knows why, and no one else should be making judgements or comparisons, especially of someone we know was abused while pursuing something that she loved and had dedicated her life to.
Seriously, what's the point in publicly shaming a girl/young woman who has already been abused in one of the worst ways possible?
Nobody is saying anything about the abuse. Which is tragic.
There should be more support for our athletes in the mental head space.
Still doesn't change one simple fact though.. Biles cracked. (Understandable. But failed. And that was not an act of heroism)
Featured Stories
See All
9:11
12h ago
16k
42:45
20h ago
4.3k
The Good Ol' Days: Reminiscing on Texas A&M's magical spring of '89
by David Sandhop
35:53
23h ago
3.7k