foleyt said:

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How do they even police this?

With those videos is it any wonder we don't believe the lies the Chinese government is telling us?

Zemira said:

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With those videos is it any wonder we don't believe the lies the Chinese government is telling us?

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I think its more to prevent even more panic from their own population.

scottimus said:

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Soccer Doc's wife was Chinese and up and left him out of nowhere...kids and all

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um yeah that is a strange twist

Big Al 1992 said:

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foleyt said:

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How do they even police this?

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Big Al 1992 said:

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foleyt said:

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How do they even police this?

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Zemira said:

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With those videos is it any wonder we don't believe the lies the Chinese government is telling us?

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If that is actually 8 bodies, I am guessing that would probably be for a 1 to 4 hour time period.......so about 50 a day minimum.

VaultingChemist said:

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Zemira said:

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With those videos is it any wonder we don't believe the lies the Chinese government is telling us?

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If that is actually 8 bodies, I am guessing that would probably be for a 1 to 4 hour time period.......so about 50 a day minimum.

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And that's at one hospital.

Coronavirus Contains "HIV Insertions", Stoking Fears Over Artificially Created Bioweapon

Over the past few days, the mainstream press has vigorously pushed back against a theory about the origins of the coronavirus that has now infected as many as 70,000+ people in Wuhan alone (depending on whom you believe).

The theory is that China obtained the coronavirus via a Canadian research program, and started molding it into a bioweapon at the Institute of Virology in Wuhan. Politifact pointed the finger at Zero Hedge, in particular, though the story was widely shared across independent-leaning media.

The theory is that the virus, which was developed by infectious disease experts may have originated in the Wuhan-based lab of Dr. Peng Zhou, China's preeminent researcher of bat immune systems, specifically in how their immune systems adapt to the presence of viruses like coronavirus and other destructive viruses. Somehow, the virus escaped from the lab, and the Hunan fish market where the virus supposedly originated is merely a ruse.

Now, a respected epidemiologist who recently caught flack for claiming in a twitter threat that the virus appeared to be much more contagious than initially believed is pointing out irregularities in the virus's genome that suggests it might have been genetically engineered for the purposes of a weapon, and not just any weapon but the deadliest one of all.

In "Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag", Indian researchers are baffled by segments of the virus's RNA that have no relation to other coronaviruses like SARS, and instead appear to be closer to HIV. The virus even responds to treatment by HIV medications.

Ruh roh. Protests may get uglier. Tweet should say "3000 hospital workers" not "3000 hospitals"

Nuclear Scramjet said:

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titan said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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AggieP18 said:

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Ready some earlier posts about the Chinese mutating genes to target certain ethnicities...that's true. They are stealing 23 and me data along with others to target Caucasian genes and wipe us out if need be. Of course I'm sure we are doing the opposite.

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Almost positive this is tin foil stuff but that is a disturbing and terrifying thought to ponder and would make for a horrific novel. If our intelligence community ever caught wind of that, we would surely send a serious message right?

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That claim doesn't fit with the idea that there is no real difference at the genetic level. It would be a case of which claim is true? There is genetic difference, or isn't.

But not only does that sound tinfoil, it sounds especially so in China's case. They already have a huge number advantage and there actions are classically imperialist conventional. "Gut" says this is nothing so like that. A vaccine gone wrong sounds more probable.

If source said earlier is true about plants re-opening Feb 12, we will know by mid-month if China is starting to come out of it.

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There is a genetic difference, this is widely known among geneticist but the general public (both the left and the right) really doesn't like the idea because it's very non-PC.

From a disease standpoint this is why all of those European diseases devastated the New World while Europeans had some immunity. These things are widely known.

Anyone claiming otherwise is simply ignorant.

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I can see why they wouldn't like the idea, but this is exactly the kind of situation where a neutral stance demands that it be know if there is such a difference. As it could matter in this postulation. These days are willing to stipulate that there is a difference for purposes of analysis.

But on your latter -- isn't that equally likely to be due to the rather devastating fact that what is routine to one region because they have had it and developed anti-bodies, can be devastating to another that has never been exposed to it ? Not because of any real genetic difference, apart from that simply gained by having to live with it. Which is a bit different than an ethnic specific. You saw the problem on a smaller scale during the Crusades when diseases less common to a region were carried back and forth a bit.

Should my kids go to Kumon?

Just left a friends house. He works for Aviall.... got an order for 3k headsets. If airlines plan to replace headsets for anyone considered to be infected. Or just replace headsets on any plane thought to carry infection..... welp. Someone clearly thinks it's worse than it 'seems'

Zemira said:

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scottimus said:

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Soccer Doc's wife was Chinese and up and left him out of nowhere...kids and all

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um yeah that is a strange twist

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As in she took the kids and left the US after the outbreak?

AgResearch said:

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Big Al 1992 said:

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foleyt said:

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How do they even police this?

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If they are close goose step marching with bayonets attached, I'm volunteering for the back row.

If a weapon, wouldn't they have an antidote to protect your own side?

One would imagine. Unless they had just developed the weapon and we're still trying to synthesize an antidote.

SpiDer09 said:

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One would imagine. Unless they had just developed the weapon and we're still trying to synthesize an antidote.

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They have what? 1.5B citizens? Like they give a flying f/ck about their people. What's a few mill?

ElKabong said:

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Coronavirus Contains "HIV Insertions", Stoking Fears Over Artificially Created Bioweapon

Over the past few days, the mainstream press has vigorously pushed back against a theory about the origins of the coronavirus that has now infected as many as 70,000+ people in Wuhan alone (depending on whom you believe).

The theory is that China obtained the coronavirus via a Canadian research program, and started molding it into a bioweapon at the Institute of Virology in Wuhan. Politifact pointed the finger at Zero Hedge, in particular, though the story was widely shared across independent-leaning media.

The theory is that the virus, which was developed by infectious disease experts may have originated in the Wuhan-based lab of Dr. Peng Zhou, China's preeminent researcher of bat immune systems, specifically in how their immune systems adapt to the presence of viruses like coronavirus and other destructive viruses. Somehow, the virus escaped from the lab, and the Hunan fish market where the virus supposedly originated is merely a ruse.

Now, a respected epidemiologist who recently caught flack for claiming in a twitter threat that the virus appeared to be much more contagious than initially believed is pointing out irregularities in the virus's genome that suggests it might have been genetically engineered for the purposes of a weapon, and not just any weapon but the deadliest one of all.

In "Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag", Indian researchers are baffled by segments of the virus's RNA that have no relation to other coronaviruses like SARS, and instead appear to be closer to HIV. The virus even responds to treatment by HIV medications.

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I ran the zero hedge article by a close family member with 30 yrs in bio/pharma...he's credentialed and comes from the science side of the business:

Quote:

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Hmmm, now the question is, shall I go thru and provide and explanation of RNA virus structures and similarities in key functioning sequences.....nah, probably more fun to keep this going. The fun part of this is the fact that if a "bioweapon", it's certainly good to do insertions that would enhance uptake of an airborne virus.......but if you really want to do damage, you would consider a more deadly strain. I think what gets lost in this whole pandemic thing is that no one is doing or communicating the mortality rates. Initial estimates were around 4%-5%. With reports of now up to 12000 being reported with ~300 deaths, let's just say it's 2.5%.

So well below SARS, farrrr below Ebola ......and not too dissimilar from the annual influenza death rates.

And if you consider living conditions, availability of healthcare and what is most likely an under reporting or diagnosing of cases the mortality rate is far less.

Than what is being reported. Then again, maybe this will be the focus of the next democratic debate......how the pharmaceutical industry needs to be dismantled because we are intentionally infecting people so we can provide the chronic medications to treat them......there's lots of very effective HIV drugs out there. Time to invest in Gilead and Glaxo. The evil get richer

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revvie said:

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cbr said:

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Anyone thinks 'escaped biolab or even bioweapon is tinfoil hat' is simply ignorant of bioweapons programs, ciruses, history, and chinese culture.

And anyone who hasnt thought of he idea that people want 'racially targeted' viruses doesnt understand history, bioweapons, and human nature.

Now, wheteher that is possible or not with present tech, i have no idea. No declassified info on it that i know of.

But we KNOW that russia engineered doomsday 'kill everyone on earth horribly' kinds of viruses. Why would they not have also engineered 'only kill all of them' viruses if they could?

That said, either the disinformation campaign is really effective, or this one is thankfully not looking like an american doomsday yet today, outside of some outlier sources.

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There was a science fiction book published in the early 80's titled "The White Plague" by Frank Hebert that outlined a similar scenario.

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I understand that there have been programs like that and projects. And that the motives may exist.

But we are talking about a peculiar level of evil here- -- and it takes certain kinds of regimes to be behind it. At this moment am a bit skeptical that Xi's China is at that point yet. (Killing dissenters doesn't qualify--on one level in dictatorships that is routine) But you might be right.

As for a bio-weapon that specific -- its far from convincing it could be made just yet (at the level of the science right now). Certainly not ruling it out 100 percent or anything.

It's more about practicality. A large group of people in the u.s. (non-asian) do the sane thing. It's easier to consume the media on a phone in port. Whsn you watch things or film things in landscape it is obvious your not using your phone for basic phone things.

Kozmozag said:

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If a weapon, wouldn't they have an antidote to protect your own side?

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Why where they able to release the RNA sequence so quickly which Australians then used to grow the virus in a lab?

Civil.Savage said:

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It's more about practicality. A large group of people in the u.s. (non-asian) do the sane thing. It's easier to consume the media on a phone in port. Whsn you watch things or film things in landscape it is obvious your not using your phone for basic phone things.

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Excellent point

VaultingChemist said:

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Big Al 1992 said:

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foleyt said:

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How do they even police this?

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THOSE GUNS ARE NOT LOADED!!!
Only in Tibet and Xinjiang (sometimes Beijing) is anyone allowed to carry loaded firearms!!!!
Usual composition in China for loaded firearms is five person squad or three person squad!! Two with guns, one with ammo, squad leader and squad commissioner!! Both the commissioner+squad leader must approve before ammo can be granted.

For three person squad is one has the firearm, one has the ammo, the last is the squad leader (usually officer and CCP functionary).


This assume of course, that they are not at war and have not moved to their version of general quarters.

Civil.Savage said:

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Kozmozag said:

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If a weapon, wouldn't they have an antidote to protect your own side?

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Why where they able to release the RNA sequence so quickly which Australians then used to grow the virus in a lab?

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That would only support likely artificial or man cultivated --- wouldn't mean its a weapon necessarily -- it would equally support it was anti-disease research gone wrong. Attempted vaccine development and similar. Which is actually where lean toward---because they seem to know they need to stop it. The so-called panic reaction seeing.

VaultingChemist said:

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Big Al 1992 said:

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foleyt said:

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How do they even police this?

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Coming in 2021, from the creators of Escape from Tarkov comes... Escape from Wuhan...

flakrat said:

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Zemira said:

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scottimus said:

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Soccer Doc's wife was Chinese and up and left him out of nowhere...kids and all

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um yeah that is a strange twist

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As in she took the kids and left the US after the outbreak?

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No, I guess it could be interpreted that way.

She left him out of nowhere 2-3 years ago...they had kids together here. They are still here.

Zemira said:

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The hysteria of the Chinese government just doesn't match the numbers.

They seem to be underreporting. A combination of state number fudging and a lack of test kits. The deaths are also underreported in relationship to their response. We heard days ago that people had their deaths classified as pneumonia, but likely had the virus. I don't really believe the dropping in the streets videos, but there has to be more to this.

We have seen cases pop up outside of China, but mostly from people who visited Wuhan. There doesn't seem to be a rash of people getting sick from those people, yet.

The pathway that was discussed early the virus took that is present in the Asian population, but less likely in others may be the key to the spread.

Currently my theory is they were working on vaccination of sorts to only protect their people. Somehow the vaccine backfired and did the opposite. It either escaped the lab through poor practices, was actually given to humans or some other way I have no clue if because my knowledge of biology and genetics is absolute crap.

An aside: One of the few classes that grossed me out was biology and our teacher also taught anatomy on the class before us. After that I refused to take biology or anatomy ever. All the other science classes I look in high school and college where chemistry and physics. I also took an atmospheric science class, but so determined it wasn't so much science as guesstimated models of the weather.

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Part of the reason this is overreacting was the SARS epidemic had a lot of public discontent due to the way the government handled it.
Brings back lots of memories for many Chinese about SARS, and that panic was mostly hysteria and fingerpointing.

This is the new way of fudging numbers, before they just would blanket censor.

They may be under martial law currently in Wuhan.

erudite said:

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Zemira said:

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The hysteria of the Chinese government just doesn't match the numbers.

They seem to be underreporting. A combination of state number fudging and a lack of test kits. The deaths are also underreported in relationship to their response. We heard days ago that people had their deaths classified as pneumonia, but likely had the virus. I don't really believe the dropping in the streets videos, but there has to be more to this.

We have seen cases pop up outside of China, but mostly from people who visited Wuhan. There doesn't seem to be a rash of people getting sick from those people, yet.

The pathway that was discussed early the virus took that is present in the Asian population, but less likely in others may be the key to the spread.

Currently my theory is they were working on vaccination of sorts to only protect their people. Somehow the vaccine backfired and did the opposite. It either escaped the lab through poor practices, was actually given to humans or some other way I have no clue if because my knowledge of biology and genetics is absolute crap.

An aside: One of the few classes that grossed me out was biology and our teacher also taught anatomy on the class before us. After that I refused to take biology or anatomy ever. All the other science classes I look in high school and college where chemistry and physics. I also took an atmospheric science class, but so determined it wasn't so much science as guesstimated models of the weather.

---

Part of the reason this is overreacting was the SARS epidemic had a lot of public discontent due to the way the government handled it.
Brings back lots of memories for many Chinese about SARS, and that panic was mostly hysteria and fingerpointing.

This is the new way of fudging numbers, before they just would blanket censor.

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erudite,
You mean the italics does have some weight in China? The public can pressure the government and it not just get very ugly right away and they have a way to express ire that the Great Hall will listen to.

The CCP has voted more power to Xi since SARS. Internal pressure from Chinese citizens carries very little weight amongst the party

IrishTxAggie said:

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The CCP has voted more power to Xi since SARS. Internal pressure from Chinese citizens carries very little weight amongst the party

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That is what you would think. But erudite knows the situation and so was asking if there is a part of the regime that is concerned about something like irritation at the government's handling of it enough to do things differently. That means responding to criticism on some level.

My understanding is that martial law, even then, does not allow for dispensing of ammunition.
Back in 89' a lot of the soldiers were sent in without bullets. Those were the ones civvies ended up killing in retaliation for the massacre.

If they have not changed the regulation (Possible, since self defense law amended in 2012). Authorization comes from the division level commander and he is held accountable. They usually give three warnings, a warning shot and then neutralize the target. Not like American cops. I have been told some (?) even where element cams and its reviewed right after the incident.

This however is a counterexample in the Kunming railway station incident:
(NSFW, don't watch if you want to see people shot or getting hacked by machetes)
https://www.youtube *(dot)*com/watch?v=XSHOZXoHXL0&has_verified=1

Sid Farkas said:

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ElKabong said:

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Coronavirus Contains "HIV Insertions", Stoking Fears Over Artificially Created Bioweapon

Over the past few days, the mainstream press has vigorously pushed back against a theory about the origins of the coronavirus that has now infected as many as 70,000+ people in Wuhan alone (depending on whom you believe).

The theory is that China obtained the coronavirus via a Canadian research program, and started molding it into a bioweapon at the Institute of Virology in Wuhan. Politifact pointed the finger at Zero Hedge, in particular, though the story was widely shared across independent-leaning media.

The theory is that the virus, which was developed by infectious disease experts may have originated in the Wuhan-based lab of Dr. Peng Zhou, China's preeminent researcher of bat immune systems, specifically in how their immune systems adapt to the presence of viruses like coronavirus and other destructive viruses. Somehow, the virus escaped from the lab, and the Hunan fish market where the virus supposedly originated is merely a ruse.

Now, a respected epidemiologist who recently caught flack for claiming in a twitter threat that the virus appeared to be much more contagious than initially believed is pointing out irregularities in the virus's genome that suggests it might have been genetically engineered for the purposes of a weapon, and not just any weapon but the deadliest one of all.

In "Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag", Indian researchers are baffled by segments of the virus's RNA that have no relation to other coronaviruses like SARS, and instead appear to be closer to HIV. The virus even responds to treatment by HIV medications.

---

I ran the zero hedge article by a close family member with 30 yrs in bio/pharma...he's credentialed and comes from the science side of the business:

Quote:

---

Hmmm, now the question is, shall I go thru and provide and explanation of RNA virus structures and similarities in key functioning sequences.....nah, probably more fun to keep this going. The fun part of this is the fact that if a "bioweapon", it's certainly good to do insertions that would enhance uptake of an airborne virus.......but if you really want to do damage, you would consider a more deadly strain. I think what gets lost in this whole pandemic thing is that no one is doing or communicating the mortality rates. Initial estimates were around 4%-5%. With reports of now up to 12000 being reported with ~300 deaths, let's just say it's 2.5%.

So well below SARS, farrrr below Ebola ......and not too dissimilar from the annual influenza death rates.

And if you consider living conditions, availability of healthcare and what is most likely an under reporting or diagnosing of cases the mortality rate is far less.

Than what is being reported. Then again, maybe this will be the focus of the next democratic debate......how the pharmaceutical industry needs to be dismantled because we are intentionally infecting people so we can provide the chronic medications to treat them......there's lots of very effective HIV drugs out there. Time to invest in Gilead and Glaxo. The evil get richer

---

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Here are some criticisms discounting the article published from India and their reasons.

Quote:

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This report highlights the dangers of assuming significance to a highly improbable yet random occurrence. If one calculates the probability of finding all four peptides within the HIV-1 genome it is improbable but that does not infer non-randomness. Lots of highly improbable events happen in nature that are in fact random. Even if you constrain to just the viral sequences in the database which are nearly 6 million residues (protein) the probability is quite low that all 4 peptides match HIV-1 but the authors fell into the trap of assigning significance to randomness.

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Quote:

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Jason, I took a look at the blast results. The Wuhan seafood market virus does seem to match the bat coronavirus. However, if you click on the Accession (QHR63250.1 and QHR63300.1) you can see that both were submitted on the same day, 27-JAN-2020 by CAS Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens, Wuhan Institute of Virology. There are some subtle differences in "ORIGIN". It may be instructive to see what those differences are.

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Quote:

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Hi, regarding the protease inhibitor: both HIV and Coronaviruses (and other viruses) depend on proteases (proteins which cleave other proteins) for proper function. In human cells this is only rarely observed, but many viruses make the proteins in huge chunks (polyproteins), which are subsequently cleaved into individual proteins that each carry out different functions. This is discussed to be generally a favorable property for viruses (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go.... Whether this is a principle based on an ancient common ancestor of all viruses, or a product of "convergent evolution" (i.e. that the same principle has been acquired over time by different viruses) remains elusive. Since these HIV protease inhibitors are known to be non-toxic to humans, it therefore makes sense to test them whether they work also against the Coronavirus protease. I would however say it would be big luck if they do.

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Quote:

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As discussed by Jason Weir, Song Yang, Brian Hanley and others, I agree that the conclusion made by the authors lacks scientific merits.
As already pointed out in multiple comments, the so called unique insertions in the Wuhan isolates compared to the SARS isolate are cherry picked. In fact, a simple blast returned alignments with Bat SARS-like coronavirus that does contain 3/4 insertions in the most recent isolate from 2015, strain SL-CoVZXC21, from bats in the Hubei province, where the novel infectious virus supposedly originated (see attached figure).
All of the insertions sites coincides with positions variable across homologs, which make sense in that these positions are important for host interactions. This is not "uncanny", it's simply how selection works. As for the so called "identity" with HIV gag proteins, again, as pointed out by others, is spurious. Both HIV and coronaviruses are RNA virus and are hypermutable. The fact that positions important for host-virus interactions, i.e. where the new insertions were found, can be variable in the new infectious Wuhan isolate is expected and there is no evidence suggests that this is a result of human manipulation.
This preprint already gained notice in the media, as fear spread across nations, especially in China where the epidemic is currently escalating. This kind of fear mongering pseudo-science is harmful for the general public, who are less equipped to distinguish the merits of non peer-reviewed researches.
I strongly suggest that the authors revise or retract this manuscript.
Jing Hou (The Donnelly Center, University of Toronto)

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Quote:

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Between the consensus sequence and the SARS sequence, there is good similarity with no notable gaps. This novel 2019 nCorV sequence is 19 amino acids longer, in 4 regions the authors identified - this is both notable and significant. The inserts may match other known sequences but they also match known HIV surface protein sequences. I believe this is a significant finding that should continue to be investigated.

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Quote:

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We work on detection and identification of pathogenic sequences in DNA screening orders. These purported hits are far too short and sparse to serve as a detection: at these lengths, the likelihood of false positives via coincidence or coevolution is overwhelming.

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erudite,

Quote:

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My understanding is that martial law, even then, does not allow for dispensing of ammunition.

Back in 89' a lot of the soldiers were sent in without bullets. Those were the ones civvies ended up killing in retaliation for the massacre.

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Very briefly, don't want to divert thread, what is your understanding the final casualty count came to from the June '89 event in the square? How many did the govt troops kill, and how many of them did irate civilians kill? Just those figures. Vividly remember the Tiannanmen demonstrations and the crack-down, but that was pre-Internet, and a certain haze on details never did go away and then it became eclipsed by the Berlin Wall coming down later same year.