daggertx said:

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In that articles he goes over 4 options:

Option 1. Natural coronavirus related to bat coronaviruses, Not a Recombined Virus.

Option 2. A recombined virus that naturally picked up a SARS-like spike protein in it N-terminus (3 end) of the viral genome.

Option 3. A recombined virus made in a laboratory for the purpose of creating a bioweapon.

Option 4. A recombined virus made in a laboratory for the purpose of creating a vaccine.


The very researchers conducting studies on SARS vaccines have cautioned repeatedly against human trials;


https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/01/30/on-the-origins-of-the-2019-ncov-virus-wuhan-china/?fbclid=IwAR1GhqPaTesAA0R9G2iDqByXQtiedeJQ35AhZ-YzhJurbz1exr8q31Oa2kE

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Very interesting article. If I'm understanding correctly, the author is arguing that this has a high likelihood to be a strain that escaped from the lab that was aimed to be a corona virus vaccine. What's even more interesting is he is saying the tests where this vaccine was applied to animals that already the SARS vaccine, this strain actually made them sicker and caused respiratory failure in older lab animals. Animals that didn't have the SARS vaccine did not experience as severe of symptoms.

So essentially if you're Chinese and received a sars vaccine the severity of this strain if infected could cause you to get sick or sicker, ie you're more susceptible to getting sick if you had the SARS vaccine as this would act as a "re infection".

I'm kind of bouncing on and off this thread, but that may also make some sense of the infection rates where it seems to be it's plowing right through China yet there seems to be very little growth in infections in other countries.

scottimus said:

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claym711 said:

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Wait the soccer doc is involved in HIV research??

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No, soccer doc does not do HIV

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scottimus, after thinking about this some more, I don't understand why your guy is saying that engineering this virus is "impossible." The new virus may be somewhat hard to work with, but I don't think it would be difficult to modify the SARS virus however you see fit in order to create the new one.

I'm curious what faults he would have with the following generic protocol (or at least the first 6 steps, lol):

Quote:

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1. Infect cultured human respiratory cell line with SARS.

2. Extract all RNA from infected cells.

3. Use SARS-specific primers to amplify SARS RNA using Polymerase Chain Reaction.

4. Use CRISPR/other gene-editing techniques to insert HIV sequences.

5. Use electroporation or similar technique to transfect cultured human respiratory cell line with newly modified coronavirus RNA and incubate.

6. Lyse transfected cells and purify packaged viruses.

7. Do something stupid and accidentally expose newly engineered virus to the public.

8. ???

9. Opposite of profit.

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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daggertx said:

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In that articles he goes over 4 options:

Option 1. Natural coronavirus related to bat coronaviruses, Not a Recombined Virus.

Option 2. A recombined virus that naturally picked up a SARS-like spike protein in it N-terminus (3 end) of the viral genome.

Option 3. A recombined virus made in a laboratory for the purpose of creating a bioweapon.

Option 4. A recombined virus made in a laboratory for the purpose of creating a vaccine.


The very researchers conducting studies on SARS vaccines have cautioned repeatedly against human trials;


https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/01/30/on-the-origins-of-the-2019-ncov-virus-wuhan-china/?fbclid=IwAR1GhqPaTesAA0R9G2iDqByXQtiedeJQ35AhZ-YzhJurbz1exr8q31Oa2kE

---

Very interesting article. If I'm understanding correctly, the author is arguing that this has a high likelihood to be a strain that escaped from the lab that was aimed to be a corona virus vaccine. What's even more interesting is he is saying the tests where this vaccine was applied to animals that already the SARS vaccine, this strain actually made them sicker and caused respiratory failure in older lab animals. Animals that didn't have the SARS vaccine did not experience as severe of symptoms.

So essentially if you're Chinese and received a sars vaccine the severity of this strain if infected could cause you to get sick or sicker, ie you're more susceptible to getting sick if you had the SARS vaccine as this would act as a "re infection".

I'm kind of bouncing on and off this thread, but that may also make some sense of the infection rates where it seems to be it's plowing right through China yet there seems to be very little growth in infections in other countries.

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It's also possible other countries are treating this virus like China should have from the start. IMHO they were too late in issuing the quarantine.

For sure, but with a possible 14 day gestational period where you aren't showing symptoms yet are contagious, seems very unlikely any country could control at least some spread. There's only been one new case in the US from the original 5 and there have been 5 for at least a week right? Seems like you would've seen at least some growth. The spread in China FAR exceeds any other country.

japantiger said:

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The apparent HIV connection and the Chinese treating current patients with AIDs drugs, does raise questions.

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Not really. The HIV drugs being used were also used effectively against the Coronavirus that caused the SARS outbreak. That's why they tried using it again against this Coronavirus, and it seems to work. It's that simple. Lots of drugs are effective against multiple different viruses, sometimes the only way to find out is to try.

Quote:

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It's worth noting that this isn't the first time Kaletra has worked against a coronavirus. In a historical control study in 2004, "the combination of lopinavir and ritonavir among SARS-CoV patients was associated with substantial clinical benefit (fewer adverse clinical outcomes)," Chinese researchers noted in a newly published The Lancet study, which describes the clinical features of the first 41 patients infected with 2019-nCoV.

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Basically, "it worked on SARS, let's see if it works on this too."

StrickAggie06 said:

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scottimus said:

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claym711 said:

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Wait the soccer doc is involved in HIV research??

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No, soccer doc does not do HIV

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scottimus, after thinking about this some more, I don't understand why your guy is saying that engineering this virus is "impossible." The new virus may be somewhat hard to work with, but I don't think it would be difficult to modify the SARS virus however you see fit in order to create the new one.

I'm curious what faults he would have with the following generic protocol (or at least the first 6 steps, lol):

Quote:

---

1. Infect cultured human respiratory cell line with SARS.

2. Extract all RNA from infected cells.

3. Use SARS-specific primers to amplify SARS RNA using Polymerase Chain Reaction.

4. Use CRISPR/other gene-editing techniques to insert HIV sequences.

5. Use electroporation or similar technique to transfect cultured human respiratory cell line with newly modified coronavirus RNA and incubate.

6. Lyse transfected cells and purify packaged viruses.

7. Do something stupid and accidentally expose newly engineered virus to the public.

8. ???

9. Opposite of profit.

---

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Honestly, I agree with you. Can't text him this cause it would be weird...if this came from a link I could send it to him.

I also think this is more about the ethical aspect that these scientist should not be doing/trying these things...so he wants to be coy in saying it is not possible. I work with engineering PhDs everyday so I know the game, but I don't think he knows that about me. It is more like he is trying to calm me down because he knows my family, and I am pitching worst case scenario in his field.

As with most scientists, I am discussing hypothetical global social economic implications of science, and he wants to stay on the granular level, blinded by the "weight of science" and its intent.

Consequences be damned.

Looks like we are at the end of the early adopters / in the beginning of the early majority phase...... more people are becoming aware and trying to catch up. If you are new, I suggest the 1st video.


For those that have missed the innovator/early adopter phase. Please watch some of these videos from Chris Martenson. He's been tracking this pretty well from the early stage.

Pretty sobering discussions.

1st video is from Jan 25th.




From this morning.

wait, China claims to have a life expectancy of 77 years almost the same as US.....yeah that's believable like believing that's its spread rate and severity will be similar in the US.

The chans have some brutal memes. Gen Z can be ... probably enough to get me vacationed for a while again, so I thought twice.

Let's just say the recent statements by the Canadian health minister about "racism" and "xenophobia" are not going over very well - at all.

ClickClackAg31 said:

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For sure, but with a possible 14 day gestational period where you aren't showing symptoms yet are contagious, seems very unlikely any country could control at least some spread. There's only been one new case in the US from the original 5 and there have been 5 for at least a week right? Seems like you would've seen at least some growth. The spread in China FAR exceeds any other country.

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1. California announced a new case today

2. China has spread more because it's had it for 2 months. First cases outside of China showed up a week ago. Detection with a week incubation period will be difficult. Wait until Wednesday to really tell how its spreading in the West.

This is the Chinese government's response from December 6th-January 20th

1. Identify source of outbreak as Wuhan Seafood Market (12/10). Not notify Market or close down Market for 3 more weeks (1/3)
2. Host Guiness Book Record Feast of 100,0000 attendees (1/16)
3. Arrest doctors who ask question about Wuhan Viral Pneumonia
4. Censor Taxi Cab driver who warn passengers about Wuhan Viral Pneumonia
5. Deny that the virus could spread between humans while doctors were dying from virus they caught from patients
6. Warn population of Quarantine 3 days in advance so that 1/3 the city leaves

I've been puzzled by this behavior because it is beyond bureaucratic incompetence. Instead, it was as if the government was actively trying to spread the virus

If the virus was engineered in the biolab as a vaccine or viral therapy, it might explain some of the government's actions.

One thing is for sure, certainly not as many 1st hand account videos as there were over the last couple weeks....China clamped dow hard. A Wuhan student told me the gov set up a website to report "Fakenews."

ClickClackAg31 said:

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daggertx said:

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In that articles he goes over 4 options:

Option 1. Natural coronavirus related to bat coronaviruses, Not a Recombined Virus.

Option 2. A recombined virus that naturally picked up a SARS-like spike protein in it N-terminus (3 end) of the viral genome.

Option 3. A recombined virus made in a laboratory for the purpose of creating a bioweapon.

Option 4. A recombined virus made in a laboratory for the purpose of creating a vaccine.


The very researchers conducting studies on SARS vaccines have cautioned repeatedly against human trials;


https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/01/30/on-the-origins-of-the-2019-ncov-virus-wuhan-china/?fbclid=IwAR1GhqPaTesAA0R9G2iDqByXQtiedeJQ35AhZ-YzhJurbz1exr8q31Oa2kE

---

Very interesting article. If I'm understanding correctly, the author is arguing that this has a high likelihood to be a strain that escaped from the lab that was aimed to be a corona virus vaccine. What's even more interesting is he is saying the tests where this vaccine was applied to animals that already the SARS vaccine, this strain actually made them sicker and caused respiratory failure in older lab animals. Animals that didn't have the SARS vaccine did not experience as severe of symptoms.

So essentially if you're Chinese and received a sars vaccine the severity of this strain if infected could cause you to get sick or sicker, ie you're more susceptible to getting sick if you had the SARS vaccine as this would act as a "re infection".

I'm kind of bouncing on and off this thread, but that may also make some sense of the infection rates where it seems to be it's plowing right through China yet there seems to be very little growth in infections in other countries.

---

That is interesting. Its also oddly re-assuring only in the sense that the italics is not an evil bio-weapon -- it was an attempt at a good thing going wrong, which is ever a danger also with genetic work.

Very intriguing.

Thanks for all the info on this folks. Good info. Glad we've shut down flights from China.

Which I don't get...why would that warrant suspension on Twitter?

Here's a bit of inside news from a different angle. Our industry has Chinese dealings. The contacts over there are Chinese and they feel the thing is under control. Chinese New Year has been extended to Feb 10, from Feb 3, (they were planning to reopen plants Feb 3) but everyone has been told to stay home another week. However, Feb 12 they expect to resume operations. While the first part might be doubted, the clue might indeed be a date like the latter.

If it is true in the above post it is a vaccine that's gone awry, that would fit perfectly both the appearance that they seem to know what it is, and yet might also have a some counters in mind.

FWIW.

japantiger said:

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Which I don't get...why would that warrant suspension on Twitter?

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From what I read it wasn't just about sharing the article, but the fact he shared the scientist's name, address, and phone number. I think that is what their policy is against.

ALL that ZH tweeted was long available to anyone who has ever been to Google and knows how to look up a Chinese lab via that search website.

I hope they sue. This needs to stop - the defining down of "threat" and "safety"

Publisher or utility platform?
CHOOSE

So the theory from the latest post is that they were attempting to engineer a SARS vaccine using a recombinant virus (which I assume would be the 2019-ncov virus) which potentially escaped and started to infect the population?

Also, is there any speculation that the Chinese were performing human trials on SARS vaccines? It seems like the potential SARS vaccines tested made the test subject more likely to suffer severe symptoms (ARDS etc...) when infected with respiratory viruses vs not having the vaccine. With that said, China or not, it seems crazy to me that a large amount of the population in Wuhan and surrounding areas were given test SARS vaccines, which why you are seeing lots of deaths there. I have a hard believing this aspect much more than the initial theory of this being a recombinant virus created to create a vaccine that escaped.

Ready some earlier posts about the Chinese mutating genes to target certain ethnicities...that's true. They are stealing 23 and me data along with others to target Caucasian genes and wipe us out if need be. Of course I'm sure we are doing the opposite.

ccaggie05 said:

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So the theory from the latest post is that they were attempting to engineer a SARS vaccine using a recombinant virus (which I assume would be the 2019-ncov virus) which potentially escaped and started to infect the population?

Also, is there any speculation that the Chinese were performing human trials on SARS vaccines? It seems like the potential SARS vaccines tested made the test subject more likely to suffer severe symptoms (ARDS etc...) when infected with respiratory viruses vs not having the vaccine. With that said, China or not, it seems crazy to me that a large amount of the population in Wuhan and surrounding areas were given test SARS vaccines, which why you are seeing lots of deaths there. I have a hard believing this aspect much more than the initial theory of this being a recombinant virus created to create a vaccine that escaped.

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Could be possible.

Since US testing is strict I have been told they move testing to 3rd world countries/ china due to lack of regulation.

Not sure if real.

titan said:

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Here's a bit of inside news from a different angle. Our industry has Chinese dealings. The contacts over there are Chinese and they feel the thing is under control. Chinese New Year has been extended to Feb 10, from Feb 3, (they were planning to reopen plants Feb 3) but everyone has been told to stay home another week. However, Feb 12 they expect to resume operations. While the first part might be doubted, the clue might indeed be a date like the latter.

If it is true in the above post it is a vaccine that's gone awry, that would fit perfectly both the appearance that they seem to know what it is, and yet might also have a some counters in mind.

FWIW.

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Well it's not worth much, being gibberish.

AggieP18 said:

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Ready some earlier posts about the Chinese mutating genes to target certain ethnicities...that's true. They are stealing 23 and me data along with others to target Caucasian genes and wipe us out if need be. Of course I'm sure we are doing the opposite.

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If the case is something along those lines the virus that escaped seems to be attacking them instead. Maybe they were trying to make a vaccine for themselves, but it backfired? And somehow escaped into the wild?

VaultingChemist said:

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I sure hope that fudged numbers and reporting actually help us all here

Makes you wonder why the Chinese quarantined Wuhan so quickly. Were the cases being vastly underreported or did the Chinese know a lot more about the virus than they were divulging? How many cases were misdiagnosed before the virus was discovered?

However, the good news from the graph is that it appears that the new cases in Wuhan are increasing linearly rather than exponentially. That may be due to the inability to diagnose new cases quickly.

AggieP18 said:

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Ready some earlier posts about the Chinese mutating genes to target certain ethnicities...that's true. They are stealing 23 and me data along with others to target Caucasian genes and wipe us out if need be. Of course I'm sure we are doing the opposite.

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Almost positive this is tin foil stuff but that is a disturbing and terrifying thought to ponder and would make for a horrific novel. If our intelligence community ever caught wind of that, we would surely send a serious message right?

Did they test his BAC? Just because he's laying in the street doesn't mean he has CV.....

Be careful when studying what home remedies "work" on curing the symptoms of CV.

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I've never seen this website, I'm guessing parody site but who knows....
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Can you imagine the death toll if the virus gets into the concentration camps where the Communists have over a million Uighurs imprisoned?

daggertx said:

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JJxvi said:

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daggertx said:

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JJxvi said:

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Everything to do with "its engineered" is tinfoil. People are biting on the lines of internet trolls, and then the echo chamber and random coincidence feeds the conspiracy believers

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Can you give us evidence that proves its not?

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Really dude?

No

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Sounds like you are trolling then.

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I love the fact that you (and others) have come up with this conspiracy theory and have no proof. But then when someone calls you out, you demand they have proof.

KorbinDallas said:

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Back to the topic at hand. Another 1900+ confirmed cases in China.

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Thats a pretty large jump in the number of treated and released, as well.