FriscoKid said:

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aggiehawg said:

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FriscoKid said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Jury sent another note to Ellis. Waiting for counsel to assemble to find out if they have a verdict or another question.

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A second note? What is it?

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Doocy says verdict in eight counts, hung on remaining ten.

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The correct answer whas "It's a piece of paper with writing on it. But, that's not important right now."

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LOL. I'm slipping in my movie trivia.

A jury announced a partial verdict in the trial against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort on Tuesday, revealing that they could not come to a decision on ten of the 18 counts.

complete guess, but doesn't it make sense that if they really had no consensus on any of the counts earlier, its more likely that its not guilty on the 8 they do have a consensus on now?

FriscoKid said:

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aggiehawg said:

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FriscoKid said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Jury sent another note to Ellis. Waiting for counsel to assemble to find out if they have a verdict or another question.

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A second note? What is it?

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Doocy says verdict in eight counts, hung on remaining ten.

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The correct answer whas "It's a piece of paper with writing on it. But, that's not important right now."

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Greatness!

BMX Bandit said:

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complete guess, but doesn't it make sense that if they really had no consensus on any of the counts earlier, its more likely that its not guilty on the 8 they do have a consensus on now?

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If there is one juror that is spiking the punch then that's what I was thinking as well.

BMX Bandit said:

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complete guess, but doesn't it make sense that if they really had no consensus on any of the counts earlier, its more likely that its not guilty on the 8 they do have a consensus on now?

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I have not gone back and tallied how many counts were the tax evasion and FBAR (foreign accounts) and how many were bank fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud. That alone might explain the split.

I'd wager Ellis accepts the partial verdict and just lets it go. Guilty or not guilty. You and I know that the chances he's retried on the ten counts with no verdict are slim.

BMX Bandit said:

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complete guess, but doesn't it make sense that if they really had no consensus on any of the counts earlier, its more likely that its not guilty on the 8 they do have a consensus on now?

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I just find it hard to believe they acquit on the tax charges. Guess we'll know soon enough.

aggiehawg said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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complete guess, but doesn't it make sense that if they really had no consensus on any of the counts earlier, its more likely that its not guilty on the 8 they do have a consensus on now?

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I have not gone back and tallied how many counts were the tax evasion and FBAR (foreign accounts) and how many were bank fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud. That alone might explain the split.

I'd wager Ellis accepts the partial verdict and just lets it go. Guilty or not guilty. You and I know that the chances he's retried on the ten counts with no verdict are slim.

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Mueller probably wouldn't retry if it ended with the jury hung on all 18 counts.

His real focus is the trial in D.C. where is likely to find a jury who would convict anyone connected to Trump without a bit of evidence.

Five are tax evasion counts, guilty verdict.

Hhmm, two bank fraud counts guilty. And of course the FBAR counts.

Manafort found guilty on five tax filing charges, failure to file on foreign bank/financial accounts, 2 bank fraud charges

Well they just gave Awan time served on his bank fraud today. We will see how this shakes out.

So he pays a fine and serves a few months?

Jury dismissed. But they asked Ellis to keep their names sealed.

FriscoKid said:

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So he pays a fine and serves a few months?

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IIRC, Mueller was going for forfeiture as well. If he only pays a fine, it will be a whopper.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Well they just gave Awan time served on his bank fraud today. We will see how this shakes out.

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As I posted earlier. Justice system is corrupt beyond repair. "Dems - good...Repubs - bad". ONLY charges and or indictments are against the right...NEVER against the left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No longer have ANY faith in the system, regardless of party.

Verdict sounds about as expected.

Ratings for all of the talking heads about to get CRAZY!!!

blindey said:

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Verdict sounds about as expected.

Ratings for all of the talking heads about to get CRAZY!!!

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Note none of the "conspiracy" counts flew with the jury, that I can see. He might have had some reversible error had he been found guilty of one of those.

A very long time ago, I started a thread called, "Let's talk about Stormy Daniels." In that thread I posited the potential danger for Trump being compelled to sit for a deposition in that civil case.

With Cohen's plea today, that is back on the table.

Now, Cohen's plea is not evidence alone and certainly not when the FEC is not seeing a campaign finance violation, as of yet.

Giuliani is relying on the Bunny Mellon/John Edwards case to assert that no campaign funds were used for the reimbursement of Cohen and thus no campaign finance violation. I am not convinced that is a winning argument. Far from it.

aggiehawg said:

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A very long time ago, I started a thread called, "Let's talk about Stormy Daniels." In that thread I posited the potential danger for Trump being compelled to sit for a deposition in that civil case.

With Cohen's plea today, that is back on the table.

Now, Cohen's plea is not evidence alone and certainly not when the FEC is not seeing a campaign finance violation, as of yet.

Giuliani is relying on the Bunny Mellon/John Edwards case to assert that no campaign funds were used for the reimbursement of Cohen and thus no campaign finance violation. I am not convinced that is a winning argument. Far from it.

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Can you help me with something I haven't got my head around?

1) Trump fully funds his campaign.
2) Trump uses money to tie people to non-disclosures. "Hush payments"

How is that a campaign finance violation? Assuming all this is true, wasn't it his money? Not money from people trying to buy favors.

My point is, this wasn't money from the voters collected through the RNC. How do these laws apply?

Also...was this $130,000 "expense" one that could have existed and been paid if he was not a candidate...no campaign finance violation.

We fixed the keg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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A very long time ago, I started a thread called, "Let's talk about Stormy Daniels." In that thread I posited the potential danger for Trump being compelled to sit for a deposition in that civil case.

With Cohen's plea today, that is back on the table.

Now, Cohen's plea is not evidence alone and certainly not when the FEC is not seeing a campaign finance violation, as of yet.

Giuliani is relying on the Bunny Mellon/John Edwards case to assert that no campaign funds were used for the reimbursement of Cohen and thus no campaign finance violation. I am not convinced that is a winning argument. Far from it.

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Can you help me with something I haven't got my head around?

1) Trump fully funds his campaign.
2) Trump uses money to tie people to non-disclosures. "Hush payments"

How is that a campaign finance violation? Assuming all this is true, wasn't it his money? Not money from people trying to buy favors.

My point is, this wasn't money from the voters collected through the RNC. How do these laws apply?

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Well, that's Guiliani's argument but herein lies the potential rub.

Even though Cohen wasn't formally indicted (that we know of) he named Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator.

ETA: Cohen was on the RNC Finance Committee at the time.

Meh_ said:

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drcrinum said:

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Shortly reality will sink in and people will realize that had Manafort possessed any dirt on Trump, he would have negotiated a deal to avoid jail time. This was not a win for Mueller.

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He's not guilty, but now that this witch hunt says he is, Trump can pardon him.

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Cut the schtick. It's beyond stale.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Meh_ said:

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drcrinum said:

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Shortly reality will sink in and people will realize that had Manafort possessed any dirt on Trump, he would have negotiated a deal to avoid jail time. This was not a win for Mueller.

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He's not guilty, but now that this witch hunt says he is, Trump can pardon him.

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Cut the schtick. It's beyond stale.

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I think meh is going on mute

Whens lunch said:

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Also...was this $130,000 "expense" one that could have existed and been paid if he was not a candidate...no campaign finance violation.

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Seems very hard to prove it wasent since the payment happened so long after the affair and so close to election.

So did Fox cut Judge Nap loose? Don't feel like I've seen him since he said something about Rosenstein being a witness. He is weird.

Thank you.

I struggle to find how a lot of these charges tie in. At face value, they don't seem to fit original intent of the law/statute in some cases.

Meh_ said:

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drcrinum said:

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Shortly reality will sink in and people will realize that had Manafort possessed any dirt on Trump, he would have negotiated a deal to avoid jail time. This was not a win for Mueller.

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He's not guilty, but now that this witch hunt says he is, Trump can pardon him.

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Manny do you not realize that everybody on this board knows about your lib schtick?

policywonk98 said:

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Whens lunch said:

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Also...was this $130,000 "expense" one that could have existed and been paid if he was not a candidate...no campaign finance violation.

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Seems very hard to prove it wasent since the payment happened so long after the affair and so close to election.

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I don't know the answer to this and am personally too lazy to research it, but when was he actually approached ("blackmailed") and felt like he had to make it go away?

As a "big league" developer, he had his fixer make issues go away regularly.

We fixed the keg said:

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Thank you.

I struggle to find how a lot of these charges tie in. At face value, they don't seem to fit original intent of the law/statute in some cases.

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Mueller has stretched the limits from the get-go unlike the Whitewater investigation which was under the Special Counsel Statute (which required permission to expand the inquiry) and morphed over time.

John Edwards was acquitted of his campaign finance charges, largely because Bunny Mellon was not cooperative in that her motivation wasn't to aid his campaign as much to spare his sick wife, Elizabeth. No intent.

Cohen is no Bunny Mellon. Not to mention that Melania alone could whip his azz and doesn't need his protection.

Rockdoc said:

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Meh_ said:

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drcrinum said:

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Shortly reality will sink in and people will realize that had Manafort possessed any dirt on Trump, he would have negotiated a deal to avoid jail time. This was not a win for Mueller.

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He's not guilty, but now that this witch hunt says he is, Trump can pardon him.

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Manny do you not realize that everybody on this board knows about your lib schtick?

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Pretty sure staff just let's him run loose so more people will buy stars and ignore him.