Whens lunch said:

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policywonk98 said:

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Whens lunch said:

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Also...was this $130,000 "expense" one that could have existed and been paid if he was not a candidate...no campaign finance violation.

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Seems very hard to prove it wasent since the payment happened so long after the affair and so close to election.

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I don't know the answer to this and am personally too lazy to research it, but when was he actually approached ("blackmailed") and felt like he had to make it go away?

As a "big league" developer, he had his fixer make issues go away regularly.

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Well, the story was that Cohen was ignoring Stormy and McDougal until the Access Hollywood outtake tape came out. Then he came to the table. Again, that's one narrative.

What is lost here is the successful extortion, a/k/a blackmail by Stormy and McDougal.

One thing I confess to be confused about with respect to the Cohen plea---the corporate contribution that was (supposedly) in violation of campaign finance laws. Originally I thought that was a tacked on charge because the contract with Stormy was in the name of one of Cohen's corporations. Now it appears that was in reference to the catch-and-kill by the National Enquirer for McDougal. And that is troublesome in many respects.

ETA: Spelling.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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I guess he should have retained Awan's lawyer

"No financial loss" is not true.

But I agree 30 years is very harsh.

Play stupid games...

BMX Bandit said:

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"No financial loss" is not true.

But I agree 30 years is very harsh.

Play stupid games...

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Please quantify the loss

BMX Bandit said:

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"No financial loss" is not true.

But I agree 30 years is very harsh.

Play stupid games...

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Mueller appears to be vindictive. His sentencing recommendation for Papadopoulus was insane since it contradicted easily provable facts from reporting by many different news sources over many months.

Manafort's saving grace here just might be Judge Ellis. He has sentencing guidelines, not mandatory sentences. My best guess 10-12 years subject to parole by year 5 with good behavior and a whopper of a fine.

Gotta protect the banks at all costs. This country is brainwashed into thinking bank fraud is worse than violent crimes.

That can't be the verdict form.

captkirk said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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I guess he should have retained Awan's lawyer

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And judge. A Clintonista.

aggiehawg said:

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That can't be the verdict form.

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looks like attorney notes. Charge would look like what we are used to seeing.

What a feckless c***

RoscoePColtrane said:

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What a feckless c***

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I'm sure the people of Salem would have said the same thing...

Loans are collateralized and not in default?

blindey said:

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aggiehawg said:

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That can't be the verdict form.

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looks like attorney notes. Charge would look like what we are used to seeing.

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Okay that makes more sense. Have to confess for a second, I looked at that and thought, "No wonder the jury was confused!" Then I remembered there's no way Ellis would have approved that.

Wow, certainly was not tapped in on the jury deliberations, bad wavelink, like one from different planet. Know now the jury deliberations musta been super miserable experience.

SpreadsheetAg said:

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I was thinking yesterday the Manafort Trial being overcharged, it's not a statement about the past and true justice. Neither is the Cohen plea agreement.

They may not even care if anyone flips. They just want to remove chess pieces from the table and send huge warning shots that ANYONE that gets near Trump and tries to help him will be found guilty of a crime, no matter what.

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This is an interesting take on Cohen from Levin

Lanny Davis is in full idiot mode

"Not only is he not hoping for it, he would not accept a pardon," Lanny Davis, Cohen's attorney, said Wednesday on "Today" about his client.

"He considers a pardon from someone who acted so corruptly as president to be something he would never accept," Davis added.

mwp02ag said:

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I completely fear our federal governments power, we do not have equal justice and it appears it's beyond repair.

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I'm about where you are, too. It sucks and nothing can be done about it.

I read a headline today that said "Can Michael Cohen Bring Trump Down?" The fact that so many are working so hard to "bring Trump down" from both sides gives me little faith that our country is NOT approaching total irreversible damage.

I get that we're still better than 95% of the rest of the world, but not for long if we continue where we're headed.

There are times where Mark comes through and knocks it out of the park. As I asked of Aggiehawg earlier, something with the Cohen mess didn't pass the smell test. Lanny Davis is actually right, "if it is a crime for my client, it is a crime for the president"....Yes, but those payments for non-disclosure agreements that your client plead guilty to are not crimes.

All this boils down to a race....can the deep state stall long enough to neuter the president and republican majorities before they can be brought to justice for their corruption?

I am actually encouraged that they can't get Trump for more than some fines but as mentioned, who will stand with him now? What will this power look like should the socialist gain control?

SpreadsheetAg said:

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I was thinking yesterday the Manafort Trial being overcharged, it's not a statement about the past and true justice. Neither is the Cohen plea agreement.

They may not even care if anyone flips. They just want to remove chess pieces from the table and send huge warning shots that ANYONE that gets near Trump and tries to help him will be found guilty of a crime, no matter what.

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This is exactly what Michael caputo said after getting grilled.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/05/03/former-trump-campaign-adviser-caputo-meets-mueller-team-theyre-still-looking-collusion

We fixed the keg said:

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There are times where Mark comes through and knocks it out of the park. As I asked of Aggiehawg earlier, something with the Cohen mess didn't pass the smell test. Lanny Davis is actually right, "if it is a crime for my client, it is a crime for the president"....Yes, but those payments for non-disclosure agreements that your client plead guilty to are not crimes.

All this boils down to a race....can the deep state stall long enough to neuter the president and republican majorities before they can be brought to justice for their corruption?

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Davis is trying to spin a conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws between Cohen and Trump when he says, "if it was a crime for my client, it is a crime for the President." What Lanny conveniently overlooks is that Cohen agreeing it was a crime is not res judicata as it applies to Trump.

And let's go back to the 30 second or so tape between Trump and Cohen. Originally the Special Master had ruled that was attorney-client privilege and no crime/fraud exception applied. It was Trump's legal team that waived the privilege. IOW, the Special Master did not see how campaign finance laws applied to that conversation.

Now, is that finding by the Special Master dispositive of the issue? Not to my thinking. We aren't there yet. NDAs and the exchange of consideration to support them are not illegal in and of themselves. Had these exchanges taken place in June of 2015, before Trump announced his candidacy, for instance, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

The crucial difference is that the transactions occurred during a Presidential campaign when Trump was already the nominee. At least that is the theory being advanced by Lanny Davis and his Master, Mueller.

One other item of note, David Pecker is CEO of American Media, Inc. ("AMI") which is the parent company for the National Enquirer. Also an unindicted co-conspirator in the Cohen plea deal. Now the heat will be applied to them and not just for the Karen McDougal stuff but likely for the Ted Cruz's Dad was part of the JFK assassination story during the primaries. Remember that? If the current legal theory being applied by Cohen and Mueller as to what constitutes a campaign finance violation is applied to that story, is that also a "campaign contribution"??

This thing could have several tentacles.

ETA: Hey! His name wasn't filtered.

So with Mueller he only has a few things going on at a pretty low level. I'm trying to gauge when this will peter out because the worst thing they have so far is the Cohen statement about being directed. Is this all they have?

Cohen - pled and had directed statement
Flynn - keeps getting pushed out
Manafort (X2) - one done with no link at all to trump.
Russian spammers - lost track of this one

Did I miss anything? Seems pretty weak even though the MSM howls.