The term "lindy" that spreadsheet was talking about a few pages ago... is that using British surveillance to spy on our citizens?

Que Te Gusta Mas said:

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Correct if I'm wrong, but haven't Warner and Schiff each personally reached out to Russians concerning dirt on the president?

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Yes. Schiff claims he knew it was a prank but someone in his office twice emailed the account looking for naked pictures of Trump. Not really my thing but Schiff mustvlooe okd men being naked.

So it's even worse that we thought

New talking point is Stone tried to get dirt on Hilary from Assange. Why is that a big deal? How is that different then getting the dossier?

Great point. I was more thinking from a lefts point of view that this is a big story.

Wasn't Hillary colluding with the Ukrainians?

So, theoretically some entities with knowledge and ability to gain access could have resumed data mining the NSA data with much less chance of detection as the Trump administration took office?

MouthBQ98 said:

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So, theoretically some entities with knowledge and ability to gain access could have resumed data mining the NSA data with much less chance of detection as the Trump administration took office?

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I don't think it is theoretical. I think that ability was left in place on purpose specifically to (effectively) give DNC brass ongoing access to the NSA's capabilities.

blindey said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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So, theoretically some entities with knowledge and ability to gain access could have resumed data mining the NSA data with much less chance of detection as the Trump administration took office?

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I don't think it is theoretical. I think that ability was left in place on purpose specifically to (effectively) give DNC brass ongoing access to the NSA's capabilities.

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Exactly and the second Obama EO that Trump reascended was the Modification to 12333, he did it day one, I'm sure at the hard recommendation of Admiral Rogers who was the hero that brought all this to light.

Can aluminum foil cause a rash? My head is itching.

But seriously, I'm skeptical that 50 U.S.C. 1802 would have been invoked in 2016. No matter how sure they were that Hillary was going to win, Obama has never left a paper trail in his entire life. There were stories that either Clapper or Brennan made mention of the Steele dossier in a PDB during the fall of 2016 and that Obama was irritated that it was being presented to him. (PDBs are supposed to be archived by the feds. Might be why Obama is thwarting them on his Presidential Library.)

Enter Susan Rice's odd email to herself just after Trump's inauguration implying that Obama was first briefed on the dossier on January 5, 2017, a day before Comey ambushed Trump with it.

Now as to the invocation of 50 U.S.C 1802 in 2014 when the Obama Administration was first advised of Russian efforts to meddle with our election system during a midterm? More likely. Certainly would count as an emergency considering the timing. Had to act fast. That secret probe would have identified Russian players and/or agents. People we and the Brits would thereafter be keeping an eye on, along with people they contacted.

So two years later when people connected with the Trump campaign who ran in those small security/intel circles interacted with those identified in the previous probe, eyebrows were raised. (I'm being generous here as my head is still itching and I'm not wearing my foil hat.)

So, yes there may have been a specific reason for initial concern but upon further investigation turned out to be nothing. Which would explain Strzok's initial reluctance to join Mueller's team a year later. "There is no there, there."

That possible scenario seems more plausible to me.

My .02.

MouthBQ98 said:

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So, theoretically some entities with knowledge and ability to gain access could have resumed data mining the NSA data with much less chance of detection as the Trump administration took office?

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Het theory at all, betting good money when the OIG report comes out on the FISA abuses, this is at least mentioned. It can't be called abuse, because Barry made it legal for a three week period. But it three weeks a hard worker could mine petabytes of data.

Roscoe, you're a beast. Excellent work as always.

FTR: Nothing I posted above should be construed to give Obama a complete pass on RussiaGate, far from it. He was up to his eyebrows in it, just not officially which would have been required under that particular statute. Not to mention there would have been little need to then go another way later on. They would have been set up to spy for an entire year.

They went the NSL and FISA route instead. Again, my .02.

Again, not a lawyer. It seems to a lay person that gathering info on Trump for the purpose of taking down an elected POTUS is still sedition. If a person obtains a gun legally, but then uses it for criminal purposes it is a crime to use the gun for an illegal purpose. Even though the gun was obtained through legal means, if the intent was to obtain the gun to commit a crime, I am will probably be in trouble again.

Obama's minions could not usurp the power that is only given to Congress.

Coyote68 says there will be some sick dems.

And the Aggie baseball game was going to start at 6:30 last night. The delays are just letting the Dems spin and spin, unfortunately I am losing patience with everyone now.

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But I've been just going around and around trying to prepare for their defense of all this and any possible way they can try to legally justify any of this. That what got me digging in 50 USC 1802, which I knew would have a paper trail if they went that route, so I kept looking and that's when I stumble up on the 12333 changes and the window that opened up for them to technically "legally" grab all they could on Trump. And you had to know the were at DEFCON 4 on trying to clean this mess up after Hillary lost. Someone comes up with Changing the 12333 rules, between Nov 9th 2016 and Dec 15th when it was submitted to Clapper and Clapper signed the rules on Dec 15th and Lynch signed them on Jan 3rd 2017. That gave them a window of 18 days to "grab all they can on Trump" (Farkas exact quote) and get out after Trump reascended the EO on Jan 21st 2017

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And using the 12333 rules to do that, while despicable, appears to be legal. Hence Rice's "by the book" directive being attributed to Obama in her email. Actually I believe Rice purposely conflated several different meetings in that email that took place over several months to make it appear Obama wasn't involved until shortly before the inauguration.

But be that as it may the final upshot here is still that they thew everything, including the kitchen sink at Trump and he's still squeaky clean. Much to their chagrin. But the Obamaites are now in the final stage of the clean-up--patsy time.

Who takes the fall?

Oh Jerry you're such a dumbass...

RoscoePColtrane said:

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And I can go along with your thoughts 100%. Barry is cagey and usually very careful to keep himself insulated, but I go back to the fact that he was physically emailing HRC on that server with both his dot gov account and his pseudonym account, so he makes mistakes at times.

But I've been just going around and around trying to prepare for their defense of all this and any possible way they can try to legally justify any of this. That what got me digging in 50 USC 1802, which I knew would have a paper trail if they went that route, so I kept looking and that's when I stumble up on the 12333 changes and the window that opened up for them to technically "legally" grab all they could on Trump. And you had to know the were at DEFCON 4 on trying to clean this mess up after Hillary lost. Someone comes up with Changing the 12333 rules, between Nov 9th 2016 and Dec 15th when it was submitted to Clapper and Clapper signed the rules on Dec 15th and Lynch signed them on Jan 3rd 2017. That gave them a window of 18 days to "grab all they can on Trump" (Farkas exact quote) and get out after Trump reascended the EO on Jan 21st 2017

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If Obama did authorize it & Lynch/Comey hid the fact...nuclear detonation.

In the background, who is DOJ/FBI frantically trying to protect by not disclosing the documents to Nunes, Gowdy & Co., even in the face of President Trump's demand? Remember, they want to see the EO and Rosenstein's secret memo to Mueller. Both likely will lead to a paper trail that is going to uncover nefarious material. There are multiple possibilities, and more than one may apply:
1) It could expose the scheme as we have been led to believe at this point -- Aggiehawg's position.
2) It could reveal that Rosenstein greatly exceeded his authority in Mueller's authorization, revealing the extent of the counterintelligence investigation, possibly exposing Rosenstein as a black hat, & bringing down Mueller.
3) It could disclose info exposing Obama's (& Lynch's) authorization of a secret counterintelligence investigation against members of Trump's Campaign -- spying on the opposing political party -- your suggestion.
4) If 3) were to be true & Mueller was aware of it, it would create a real ethical dilemma for Mueller.

So back to the original question: Who is the FBI/DOJ trying to protect? The DOJ/FBI plotters, Rosenstein, Obama/Lynch, &/or Mueller? (It ain't Trump.)

I think for now they are protecting Horowitz and the solidity of his case.

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So back to the original question: Who is the FBI/DOJ trying to protect? The DOJ/FBI plotters, Rosenstein, Obama/Lynch, &/or Mueller? (It ain't Trump.)

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The who may not be as important as the why. My most optimistic self wants to think there are pending grand jury proceedings targeting certain former Obama Administration officials and thus the "pending investigation" exception is in play. Such a broad and non-specific reason would be sufficient for Sessions to be placated as that pertains to matters on which he is recused. At least for awhile.

The other reasons being bandied about; national security, sources and methods, yada, yada really are just word salad for matters embarrassing to the agencies, as the evildoers are already gone and no longer an on-going problem. Well, except for Comey, Brennan and Clapper still out there flapping their gums. Notice McCabe has gone to ground, recently.

He's my pick for the patsy. He fits the Oliver North model. The designated fall guy. High enough value scalp but not able to throw too much crap upstream. Remember the dust-up between him and Comey? The IG believed Comey over McCabe. That's very telling to me.

AMF 2 AMC said:

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aggiehawg said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Sessions has Moved Rosey's CoS Zachary Terwilliger out to head the EDVA

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Hhmm, interesting on a number of levels. First he's messing with Rosey's COS. Maybe Rosey is cool with that? Second the EDVA is where Manafort is defending a case against Mueller.

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Could Session's be indicating that he intends to rearrange Rosenstein's office, including staff?

I'm also assuming it means Terwilliger is trusted. Maybe he "done his job" on Rosenstein's staff and Sessions is moving him clear of what might ensue?

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Let's circle back around to this.

Okay, from transcripts in Judge Ellis' court, we know it was Ellis' <ahem> "suggestion" that the office of the EDVA be in the loop and present with Team Mueller. (That EDVA attorney's name was Asonye.)

Now Sessions' sends Terwilliger over as Acting US Attorney for EDVA, meaning he's the boss that Team Mueller must now work with.

Could be huge, could mean very little but something to watch. Sessions doing an end round run on Rosey? Or is Rosey supremely comfortable with Terwilliger being "his guy"??

BQ78 said:

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That's a loss for the good guys IMO, as a minimum Clapper and Brennan need to go down too, otherwise there is no justice in America.

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They aren't off the hook completely as they continue to make public statements. With hoof-in-mouth disease you never know what might happen.

No my point was that McCabe was set up as the fall guy nearly two years ago, although he didn't know it at the time. That conflict of interest with his wife's campaign and Terry McAuliffe was the first clue. They kept him around despite that. He had a role still to play. (Although I expect they never thought McCabe would then go on a leak campaign using Lisa Page and Mike Kortan in response to his his wife's involvement being reported in the press.)

In Iran Contra, North should have known he was the fall guy for plausible deniability to protect the President. If they ever got to North, he was to be the firewall because of his mainly covert activities. At McFarland and Poindexter's instructions.

From the Obama EO 12333 revisions

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(U) SECTION V- RETENTION

A. (U) Time periods for retention of raw SIGINT. A recipient IC element may
retain raw SIGINT for not more than five years after the information is first collected by
NSA, unless the continued retention for up to an additional five years is approved in
writing by the head of the recipient element as necessary to protect national security1 and
also approved by the DNI to the extent required under PPD-28 and any implementing
policies. In no event, however, may a recipient element retain raw SIGINT beyond the
time that NSA may retain it. A recipient IC element is responsible for ensuring
compliance with applicable retention periods for any raw SIGINT transferred to its
information systems. For any raw SIGINT that NSA provides to a recipient element,
NSA must inform the recipient element of the applicable retention period.

B. (U) Foreign communications that have been minimized. Foreign
communications to, from or about U.S. persons or data related to such communications
may be permanently retained only:

1. (U) If processed so as to eliminate any USPI; or
2. (U) If dissemination of such communications without elimination of reference to
such U.S. persons would be permitted under section VI below.
(U) Any retention must also be permitted under paragraphs D and E below.

C. (U) Domestic communications. Domestic communications inadvertently retrieved
during the selection of foreign communications will be promptly destroyed upon
recognition unless the Attorney General determines that the contents indicate a threat of
death or serious bodily harm to any person.

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Here is their out on any possibility of 702 abuses..... Lynch has the get out of jail free card on this

She can frame her Concerns or determinations at the time any way she wants. That a subjective decision and defendable. Wrong as it may be.

EO 12333 is dangerous and sloppy and needs to be addressed by congress and do away with it in place of real law covering FSIA. As long as EO12333 continues to exist the next POTUS can alter it any way he wants as well. It leave an open opportunity for mischief and wrongdoing.