agsalaska said:

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I agree with the guy on FOX right now. The pre meditation of this is off the charts.

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Which fits better with a conspiracy than it does not. Will withhold acceptance of the first version hearing for the time being. Many things wrong with the picture --- the nature of the shooter, the target, the "layered" aspects of attack that seemed to be ready for.

There may not have been another shooter, but suspect there were accomplices is another way to put it.

BernArnold said:

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Bobcat06 said:

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bmks270 said:

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4chan unearthed a 2015 "photosphere" that has the room pointing to the festival. Creepy as hell of real.

https://out.reddit.com/t3_73wkus?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2F%4036.094982%2C-115.172864%2C3a%2C90y%2C181.58h%2C60.36t%2Fdata%3D%213m7%211e1%213m5%211sAF1QipNl_tRYUHT4rSwIvoJwglt-pJ3ai7VTwj8eWbAg%212e10%213e12%217i12000%218i6000&token=AQAAR9rSWdtFo32pb5AmO_la6xwVgNwbAELeBfAX-mow5a9UT9eP&app_name=mweb2x

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I'm not OP but, a Google poster by the username of "AZ Flyguy" has Photospheres of different places he's visited. The linked photosphere here shows the exact location of the shooting, and where the shooter was. The original post was posted in January of 2015, but I can't tell if it has been edited or not since the shooting.

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Whoa.... can we go back and revisit this?

Reading up on the photosphere on other sites, it was posted the day before Paddock purchased his house

If this has been premeditated since 2015, this isn't political

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It's not at all. If you read through the entire thread they figure out that the date shown of the photo is from the data in the file of when the photo was taken but it does not show the date it was edited. Basically google is showing the date it was taken but it does show it was modified today before posting if you analyze it. Dude added the triangulation lines today and posted.

His username as also Az flyguy led of some to believe it was the shooter posting it. But it was not. Poster had posted several similar things before from hotels he stayed in. He just happened to stay in that suite in 2015 and took then 360 view pic.

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Yes, the original was a 360 pic posted in 2015 that was later updated with the vectors. But it was updated a couple months ago.

I'm thinking intelligent psychopath. Guys like that are high functioning and manipulative. There may have been other possibilities considered that he decided weren't effective/feasible vs just maxing his time in the shooter's perch. Once he leaves that room, he's done.

If yoi want to acrually execute these other layers, you have to take more risk to finalize and get them in place. Which means more chance you get caught before killing anyone.

titan said:

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agsalaska said:

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I agree with the guy on FOX right now. The pre meditation of this is off the charts.

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Which fits better with a conspiracy than it does not. Will withhold acceptance of the first version hearing for the time being. Many things wrong with the picture --- the nature of the shooter, the target, the "layered" aspects of attack that seemed to be ready for.

There may not have been another shooter, but suspect there were accomplices is another way to put it.

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I suppose. But I spent a lot of time in Vegas. I lived there for four years. If there is anywhere you could get the kind of anonymity you need to do something like that its the Las Vegas Strip. I bet one could pull that off, at least the final execution, on their own.

Now modifying those ARs, if that's true, and fooling everyone into believing you are sane? Different story.

Bunk Moreland said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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I'm thinking intelligent psychopath. There may have been other possibilities considered that he decided weren't effective/feasible vs just maxing his time in the shooter's perch. Once he leaves that room, he's done.

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Yep. Conspiracy doesn't work in an area where there are thousands of cameras.

To cover that up would take multiple people working for multiple entities to be in on it, including Mandalay Bay security and more. I just can't believe any cover up is happening.

The scarier scenario is the Dallas Charlie hedbo thing where it's proven that the FBI goated a guy into committing a terrorist act, was on scene, and still let him roll up to the entrance. Why people aren't railing against the FBI for that I do not know.

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Uh, Ocean's 11.....and 13 DUH

We think that when someone "snaps" they simply go nuts on the spot. While that can be true, but not always.

Some people who have mental illness appear to be perfectly sane and rational. They can even function in society as the rest of us. He could have had a very slow descent into insanity which manifested itself so slowly no one noticed. As time went on, he began planning this and methodically prepared for it. (Every single accountant I've ever known is pathologically methodical when they do something.) It doesn't make any sense to us, but to a diseased mind, it could make perfect, logical sense.

People always look to a conspiracy to explain away the unthinkable like the Kennedy assassination or a mass shooting. Sometimes reality is the simplest answer. Like Charles Whitman, James Holmes, and Adam Lanza showed us, sometimes there is no reason whatsoever behind the actions of a crazy individual.

DannyDuberstein said:

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I also wouldn't be surprised if there are some bodies out in the desert that are attributable to this guy. He has a spotless record, but that just means never caught. He's clearly a thorough planner.

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Wouldn't surprise me either. Wonder what the reason was for his choosing to do this, I mean he had to plan on it being his last day on earth. If he registered under his own name in the room from which he did the shooting (as opposed to breaking into another room) it wasn't going to be much doubt who did the shooting. Wouldn't seem like there would be much chance of an escape. Perhaps he had some bad news medically and decided to go out this way for some reason we might never know.

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Yep. Conspiracy doesn't work in an area where there are thousands of cameras.

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I am not talking about what the cameras would show. I mean conspiracy in how it all came about and what its purpose is. How he came to be there, the weapons, and the scenario. And whether there expected reinforcements or accomplices that instead did not act. Who he is. The `clear' record, etc.

Seriously. The list of people who did what he did is LONG. Unfortunately, he did it more effectively than anyone before. Not sure how not killing even more with other layers "doesn't add up" when he's in a long line of mass shooters.

I really want a motive. Badly.

Interesting for me I have 3 different perspectives to see this thru from my former friends and colleagues that still live there.

One is my best friend there, his sons coach was shot in the chest and is in ICU

Another is President of a large property management group operating all over the strip.i don't remember how many thousands of nightly residents he has but it's a lot.

Another is a front line security guy, probably a manager, at Mandalay Bay. Or at least he was in the last year. Used to be our security guy.

Be interesting to talk to them in the few days coming up.

Cameras all over town would still tell this story. I think the number of weapons was simply time efficiency and redundancy on malfunction.

titan said:

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Yep. Conspiracy doesn't work in an area where there are thousands of cameras.

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I am not talking about what the cameras would show. I mean conspiracy in how it all came about and what its purpose is. How he came to be there, the weapons, and the scenario. And whether there expected reinforcements or accomplices that instead did not act. Who he is. The `clear' record, etc.

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I guess but so far the time line is making sense. Had been been in room multiple days, etc.

The volume of carnage is due to an elevated and protected view shooting at a huge mass of people who didn't have an inch to sweat without it touching someone.

Well whatever the motive, all his posthumous arrangements should be nullified. No burial, organs turned over to hospitals, the carcass turned over to science, what's left after that strewn to the wind. All property seized and sold. Family gets none of it. Posthumous deterrence like this might deter some of the more rational `pending suicides'.

tx4guns said:

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I've been telling folks this all day. What if he wasn't the shooter? What if the killer slipped away somehow and his body was left for the cops to discover? It's not completely out there if you start adding up the story.

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it was reported a cop was shot when they broke down the door and then he killed himself. It would be one thing if he was already dead when they breached the door. Not enough time/access to get out in that scenario in my opinion.

Aston04 said:

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tx4guns said:

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I've been telling folks this all day. What if he wasn't the shooter? What if the killer slipped away somehow and his body was left for the cops to discover? It's not completely out there if you start adding up the story.

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it was reported a cop was shot when they broke down the door and then he killed himself. It would be one thing if he was already dead when they breached the door. Not enough time/access to get out in that scenario in my opinion.

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I just heard they were not sure what that timeline was.

The guard shot was a guard. When the guards took fire they backed off and waited for SWAT. They were not sure when he actually offed himself in that timeframe.

Are we allowed to post links to Liveleak? Because there are some terrifying videos on it.

agsalaska said:

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Aston04 said:

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tx4guns said:

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I've been telling folks this all day. What if he wasn't the shooter? What if the killer slipped away somehow and his body was left for the cops to discover? It's not completely out there if you start adding up the story.

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it was reported a cop was shot when they broke down the door and then he killed himself. It would be one thing if he was already dead when they breached the door. Not enough time/access to get out in that scenario in my opinion.

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I just heard they were not sure what that timeline was.

The guard shot was a guard. When the guards took fire they backed off and waited for SWAT. They were not sure when he actually offed himself in that timeframe.

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Yeah, I'm kinda reading between the lines, but I think a hotel security guard must have first gone up to the room when shooting started and gunsmoke set off smoke alarms (possibly windows were alarmed as well) and tried to enter the room and was shot.

I think he was already dead when SWAT arrived.

One of the phone videos from the ground......I swear it sounds like two distinctly sounding rifles being fired with different trigger/shooter bursts

agsalaska said:

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Are we allowed to post links to Liveleak? Because there are some terrifying videos on it.

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Well crap, I went and browsed. I'm not sleeping tonight.

agsalaska said:

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Are we allowed to post links to Liveleak? Because there are some terrifying videos on it.

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Links only and you'll be fine

I watched some of those videos earlier. One thing that seemed evident was that, other than general direction of the hotel, people didn't really seem to know where it was coming from. Maybe too much distance and too much other Vegas light to see the muzzle flashes

BigHitterDaLama said:

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One of the phone videos from the ground......I swear it sounds like two distinctly sounding rifles being fired with different trigger/shooter bursts

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Yes. Not buying the posited version yet. Probably won't till next week when much more dust has settled. And it may not settle in favor of just one pyscho with no links to agendas....

Terrifying.




Liveleak video. Obvious warnings.


Another terrifying one is the police scanner.

titan said:

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Well whatever the motive, all his posthumous arrangements should be nullified. No burial, organs turned over to hospitals, the carcass turned over to science, what's left after that strewn to the wind. All property seized and sold. Family gets none of it. Posthumous deterrence like this might deter some of the more rational `pending suicides'.

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This. All assets should be immediately frozen pending lawsuits from victims. Burn his will along his body.

DannyDuberstein said:

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I watched some of those videos earlier. One thing that seemed evident was that, other than general direction of the hotel, people didn't really seem to know where it was coming from. Maybe too much distance and too much other Vegas light to see the muzzle flashes

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Yea I can't imagine how confusing that entire scene must have been. People almost never get their situational awareness tested anywhere close to that. Really scary.

DannyDuberstein said:

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I watched some of those videos earlier. One thing that seemed evident was that, other than general direction of the hotel, people didn't really seem to know where it was coming from. Maybe too much distance and too much other Vegas light to see the muzzle flashes

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You're going to have an echo off 2-3 buildings right there, likely what you're hearing.

titan said:

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Here's something. Was the stockpile because he was expecting reinforcements that didn't show?

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I doubt it. Unless they were in his Beautiful Mind head. My guess was he thought LEO wouldn't find him for a long time (or until after crowd had dispersed and he did whatever was next)

Still doesn't make sense though. He was intelligent.

That many rifles and ammunition but not remotely detonated devices? No RPGs? But he went all out with automatic gunfire. I dunno, this is all very puzzling and I doubt it will ever be laid to rest

AG 2000' said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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I watched some of those videos earlier. One thing that seemed evident was that, other than general direction of the hotel, people didn't really seem to know where it was coming from. Maybe too much distance and too much other Vegas light to see the muzzle flashes

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You're going to have an echo off 2-3 buildings right there, likely what you're hearing.

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Can't really tell and have very limited info but looks like there was only one possible source as evidenced by the drunk dude flipping off at the shooter's direction

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/10/02/mandalay-bay-shooter-riddles-the-philippine-angle/comment-page-1/#comments

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Mandalay Bay Shooter Riddles The Philippine Angle

We haven't torn into one of these riddles in a while and this one has a signature pattern that makes it very interesting.
Stephen Craig Paddock (64). Girlfriend reported as Marilou Danley (62).

• Paddock considered a "high stakes" gambler.
• Danley considered a "high stakes" hostess.
• Paddock reported visits to Philippines.
• Danley reported as Philippine origin. W/Filipino connections.
• Paddock reported to be sending money "tens of thousands of dollars" to Philippines recently.

The picture below (unknown origin) appears to be Paddock (far left check shirt), and Danley (center). The bar appears to be the Lex Nightclub in Reno Nevada.

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The above article has some discussion of this and other photos, but the comments section below the article has some very interesting observations/speculations/motives that would be of interest to a sleuth.