Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
barbacoa taco said:sadly I think for many they do see it as part of BOTH Christianity and patriotism, i.e. Christian nationalism. I think this is the basis for evangelicals' stalwart support of Israel.Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
lobopride said:Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
I'm not a dispensationalist and I love the country of Israel. They have proven countless times to be better than their neighbors.
Quo Vadis? said:lobopride said:Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
I'm not a dispensationalist and I love the country of Israel. They have proven countless times to be better than their neighbors.
That's a really low bar. For a country we've given a quarter trillion to, they've screwed us several times. Jonathan Pollard, USS Liberty, Chinese sea ports, etc etc.
lobopride said:Quo Vadis? said:lobopride said:Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
I'm not a dispensationalist and I love the country of Israel. They have proven countless times to be better than their neighbors.
That's a really low bar. For a country we've given a quarter trillion to, they've screwed us several times. Jonathan Pollard, USS Liberty, Chinese sea ports, etc etc.
Israel is a force for good in the region and one of our greatest allies.
barbacoa taco said:who? the current students at A&M? if so, citation needed. Using examples of bad protestors was always a dumb weak argument. The vast majority of them were protesting the Israeli government has done, and anyone who equates that with antisemitism is either stupid or intellectually dishonest. That accusation does not land anymore.Silent For Too Long said:barbacoa taco said:
a lot of people are either unwilling or unable to do that. If I say my opinion on why people think this way, I'll get banned. But the current conflict has revealed a lot of people's character. There have been a number of threads on F16 in the past year complaining about "Hamas supporters" on campus, when it's really just students protesting or standing in solidarity with Palestinians.
What floors me about derm is he criticized me for "support of Gaza" as if that's a bad thing.
Is that why they are harassing Jews and spouting rabid anti-semitism?
barbacoa taco said:This is a troubling statement. It's essentially moving the goalposts, implying that nuking and complete extermination (i.e. the most extreme response) is the only true form of genocide.Silent For Too Long said:Macarthur said:
As am I.
But that does not give Israel a blank check to destroy an entire population.
If they wanted to destroy an entire population, they would have done so on October 8th.
Rongagin71 said:How about if Israel "takes out" roughly ten enemies for every missile shot at Israel.Macarthur said:
As am I.
But that does not give Israel a blank check to destroy an entire population.
It's just an estimate but accurate missile strikes could easily average ten "take outs".
And at some point in the future, HAMAS/Hizballah/Houthis etc will be given more
powerful, more able to evade interception missiles by Iran/Russia/China.
Do you not understand that this is NOT a simple police action, Israel rightly
declared WAR on HAMAS. Wars are won by killing your enemy in quantity.
At the rate the Muslims make babies, who largely grow up to hate Israel,
this looks like protracted conflict, with the U.S. supporting Israel.
I'm curious...barbacoa taco said:
Geez. I struck a nerve with my very soft criticism of Israel and defense of the protesters here. I could take the gloves off and really say my opinion on Israel's actions in the current conflict, but I'm going to try to not derail this thread too much more.
barbacoa taco said:
Geez. I struck a nerve with my very soft criticism of Israel and defense of the protesters here. I could take the gloves off and really say my opinion on Israel's actions in the current conflict, but I'm going to try to not derail this thread too much more.
I define a class the same way most people do. Upper, upper middle, middle, lower middle, lower. I don't know what the specific definitions are.Jabin said:
Barbacoa, you keep referring to a "ruling class". Two questions:
1. How do you define a "class"?
2. Who exactly is in this class?
I think people are really misunderstanding my points. I'm not saying the government should be a charity that helps the needy like it's the Salvation Army or something. I mean, sure they could do a lot better than they're doing now. But I'm really saying the government should INVEST IN THE PEOPLE. Pay for things that do good.Quote:
Additionally, you make an emotional pitch to use public funds to help people that I assume you believe are needy. The US started off in a major experiment in the 60s to spend massive funds to help the needy. Has it actually helped them? Do you have quantifiable evidence that it has?
Do you believe that any of those experiments or programs have flaws, or can be improved? If so, how?
Do you have any idea what percentage of our tax revenues are going to the needy? Do you know where the rest is going? Do you think that the government is wasting or mismanaging any of it? Don't you agree that we should fix the corruption in government before we tax more? If not, won't those additional taxes get misdirected to the wrong places?
"Palestinian protesters" that's an interesting word choice. Just like no one can ever deny that there are bad apples on their side, I can admit there are some antisemitic people out there who support Palestine, but I certainly deny there is "rabid antisemitism" among people who support the Palestinian cause.Silent For Too Long said:barbacoa taco said:
Geez. I struck a nerve with my very soft criticism of Israel and defense of the protesters here. I could take the gloves off and really say my opinion on Israel's actions in the current conflict, but I'm going to try to not derail this thread too much more.
To come here and say that there hasn't been rabid antisemitism amidst the Palestenian protestors is inexcusable dishonesty. You should honestly be ashamed of yourself.
Who exactly is in that ruling class? How does one tell?Quote:
. . . there's a ruling class then there's everybody else. If you aren't sure what I mean by that, then it's the people who make the big decisions and own the politicians.
Quote:
But I'm really saying the government should INVEST IN THE PEOPLE. Pay for things that do good.
* * *
Grants to improve electricity infrastructure in rural America. A good investment. Providing funds to state to repair and replace aging infrastructure. A good investment. Providing proper funding to public schools and teacher pay. Good investments. Expanding Medicaid so more people can access healthcare. A GOOD INVESTMENT.
lobopride said:Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
I'm not a dispensationalist and I love the country of Israel. They have proven countless times to be better than their neighbors.
Israel has butchered more kids in the last year than Jordan has in its entire existencelobopride said:Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
I'm not a dispensationalist and I love the country of Israel. They have proven countless times to be better than their neighbors.
Quo Vadis? said:barbacoa taco said:sadly I think for many they do see it as part of BOTH Christianity and patriotism, i.e. Christian nationalism. I think this is the basis for evangelicals' stalwart support of Israel.Quo Vadis? said:
The American love affair with Israel has got to stop. It's almost entirely a product of dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, and has no place within Christianity or patriotism.
It is practically the entirety of evangelical support for Israel. Biblical illiteracy coupled with Zionist propaganda
Rongagin71 said:
You do know that the Allies deliberately murdered millions of innocent civilians in WW2 - and that is the point in declaring WAR? A WAR is when you try to kill as many enemy as you can as fast as you can until the enemy surrenders (or, in this case, offers to return the hostages in return for a cease fire).
HAMAS has made the situation worse than it needed to be by constantly using civilians as shields.
HAMAS does not want a cease fire. Instead, they want to continue lobbing missiles and, along with their allies start an even larger WAR that will ultimately destroy Israel and every non-Muslim in the world.
Those people are on the fringe but the absolute last thing the U.S. needs to do is wait as isolationists until they strike our mainland. Its the reason we're supporting Ukraine and the reason we need to keep supporting Israel and Taiwan.Rongagin71 said:
There are people warning that WW3 has already started.
I don't like to think about it, but this mess and the mess in Ukraine could combine with the potential blow up in the South China Sea to coalesce into something that would even strike directly at the U.S. mainland.
Boy, this thread went F16 and no one seems to mind. It is interesting that both sides refer to others ideological leader while posting on the Religion board. Putting politics before religion is the reason for a lot of division these days.Silent For Too Long said:
Careful, Rubin uses the dirty M word at the end of that video. The leftists on this board get really, really upset when you remind them of their ideological sugar daddy.
that's been the overall theme of this thread, though--Christian Nationalism. the conflating of religion and politics to the point where they are one and the same.BluHorseShu said:Boy, this thread went F16 and no one seems to mind. It is interesting that both sides refer to others ideological leader while posting on the Religion board. Putting politics before religion is the reason for a lot of division these days.Silent For Too Long said:
Careful, Rubin uses the dirty M word at the end of that video. The leftists on this board get really, really upset when you remind them of their ideological sugar daddy.
barbacoa taco said:that's been the overall theme of this thread, though--Christian Nationalism. the conflating of religion and politics to the point where they are one and the same.BluHorseShu said:Boy, this thread went F16 and no one seems to mind. It is interesting that both sides refer to others ideological leader while posting on the Religion board. Putting politics before religion is the reason for a lot of division these days.Silent For Too Long said:
Careful, Rubin uses the dirty M word at the end of that video. The leftists on this board get really, really upset when you remind them of their ideological sugar daddy.
There has been little if anything posted on this thread or board that qualifies as "Christian nationalism".barbacoa taco said:
I did multiple times already in this thread, I dont feel like doing it again. I know you probably havent read it all through, but its on a previous page. But i'll just say this: it is not the same thing as being a Christian who cares about politics.
I don' think Christian Nationalism is what is or will happen. The basis for our country was always rooted in Christianity/Theism. There is no escaping that and I wouldn't want to remove the ideals/morals/values we hold from our faith from the government. No one is talking about forcing a national religion on anyone and our constitution obviously doesn't allow for it.barbacoa taco said:that's been the overall theme of this thread, though--Christian Nationalism. the conflating of religion and politics to the point where they are one and the same.BluHorseShu said:Boy, this thread went F16 and no one seems to mind. It is interesting that both sides refer to others ideological leader while posting on the Religion board. Putting politics before religion is the reason for a lot of division these days.Silent For Too Long said:
Careful, Rubin uses the dirty M word at the end of that video. The leftists on this board get really, really upset when you remind them of their ideological sugar daddy.
I upvoted that but want to add that Islam is even more allied with politics than is found in any large Christian denomination - currently.BluHorseShu said:I don' think Christian Nationalism is what is or will happen. The basis for our country was always rooted in Christianity/Theism. There is no escaping that and I wouldn't want to remove the ideals/morals/values we hold from our faith from the government. No one is talking about forcing a national religion on anyone and our constitution obviously doesn't allow for it.barbacoa taco said:that's been the overall theme of this thread, though--Christian Nationalism. the conflating of religion and politics to the point where they are one and the same.BluHorseShu said:Boy, this thread went F16 and no one seems to mind. It is interesting that both sides refer to others ideological leader while posting on the Religion board. Putting politics before religion is the reason for a lot of division these days.Silent For Too Long said:
Careful, Rubin uses the dirty M word at the end of that video. The leftists on this board get really, really upset when you remind them of their ideological sugar daddy.
But the values/morals our country were founded are forever woven into the fabric of our nation. Our faith makes us who we are and we can't leave that at home when we work in politics. I'm far more concerned about the disingenuous use of Christianity by politicians to garner votes.
I agree, but I'm certainly not worried about Islam becoming any remotely significant influence in our politics in the U.S. In most ways we've moved past it...However I think Oklahoma is overstepping with requiring the bible be part of the public school curriculum. I was brought up with school prayer in the 70's and 80's and we never study the bible in school. That was left to our parents and church/sunday school etc. So I don't think our fed government is at risk of anything but some states seem to be pushing boundaries...but that's true at both ends of the spectrum.Rongagin71 said:I upvoted that but want to add that Islam is even more allied with politics than is found in any large Christian denomination - currently.BluHorseShu said:I don' think Christian Nationalism is what is or will happen. The basis for our country was always rooted in Christianity/Theism. There is no escaping that and I wouldn't want to remove the ideals/morals/values we hold from our faith from the government. No one is talking about forcing a national religion on anyone and our constitution obviously doesn't allow for it.barbacoa taco said:that's been the overall theme of this thread, though--Christian Nationalism. the conflating of religion and politics to the point where they are one and the same.BluHorseShu said:Boy, this thread went F16 and no one seems to mind. It is interesting that both sides refer to others ideological leader while posting on the Religion board. Putting politics before religion is the reason for a lot of division these days.Silent For Too Long said:
Careful, Rubin uses the dirty M word at the end of that video. The leftists on this board get really, really upset when you remind them of their ideological sugar daddy.
But the values/morals our country were founded are forever woven into the fabric of our nation. Our faith makes us who we are and we can't leave that at home when we work in politics. I'm far more concerned about the disingenuous use of Christianity by politicians to garner votes.
There was a time when Christianity was very involved with the Aristocracy and who was King. Because the church property changed hands (Catholic/Protestant usually) if the King changed religion, things could get very violent. In general, Christianity has moved past that by separating church from government.
