Trump is no Ben Carson but a Christian electing Harris is hard to understand.

Harris - Her Compassion sounds good but the results prove it to be toxic, She supports abortion at any stage of pregnancy, she provoked the war in Russia, defends the terrorist who just killed an American, want to raise taxes on investments, which leads to more inflation. She is hard to vote for, and if you under 25 and she gets us in WWW3 you will be the one's that go.

If you want to get out of school, get a decent job and be able to afford a house, hold your nose and vote for Trump.

Macarthur said:

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Johnny McEntee was a top Trump WH aide. He is a senior advisor to P2025

Stephen Miller same

JD Vance has deep ties to P2025

"I've reviewed a lot of it. There are some good ideas in there."

Vance wrote the forward of the upcoming book from P2015 Architect - Roberts

CNN reports that 140 people that have worked on P2025 worked for the Trump white house

Trump name appears 312 times in the P2025 document.

I can post plenty of policy parallels

Now, if you want to make the case Trump had nothing to do with writing it, you would be right because he's never written a serious word in his life.

But it's the height of disingenuous to say he has nothing to do with this. This is 100% their playbook for Trump once he takes over.

And it's true he has distanced himself because his campaign has seen how incredibly unpopular the document is.

Come on, you guys love to hammer on intellectual honesty and arguing in good faith. You can't honestly believe what you're saying.

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Thanks for the response.
As expected, there is no proof, just conjecture based on things like Trump's name appeared 312 times.
You probably watched the recent Dem Pres Nominating Convention so know that Trump's name may very well have been used 312 times over the course of that - obviously without Trump's permission.

On the other hand, I don't doubt that the P2025 document was written with intention of influencing the Pubs and Trump - so what is wrong with that ? What is it that you find so disturbing?

Rongagin71 said:

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Macarthur said:

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Johnny McEntee was a top Trump WH aide. He is a senior advisor to P2025

Stephen Miller same

JD Vance has deep ties to P2025

"I've reviewed a lot of it. There are some good ideas in there."

Vance wrote the forward of the upcoming book from P2015 Architect - Roberts

CNN reports that 140 people that have worked on P2025 worked for the Trump white house

Trump name appears 312 times in the P2025 document.

I can post plenty of policy parallels

Now, if you want to make the case Trump had nothing to do with writing it, you would be right because he's never written a serious word in his life.

But it's the height of disingenuous to say he has nothing to do with this. This is 100% their playbook for Trump once he takes over.

And it's true he has distanced himself because his campaign has seen how incredibly unpopular the document is.

Come on, you guys love to hammer on intellectual honesty and arguing in good faith. You can't honestly believe what you're saying.

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Thanks for the response.
As expected, there is no proof, just conjecture based on things like Trump's name appeared 312 times.
You probably watched the recent Dem Pres Nominating Convention so know that Trump's name may very well have been used 312 times over the course of that - obviously without Trump's permission.

On the other hand, I don't doubt that the P2025 document was written with intention of influencing the Pubs and Trump - so what is wrong with that ? What is it that you find so disturbing?

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That was my thought. I read through a summary and agreed with all of it.

I think much of the document is disgusting but that's not the point.

I have no issue w the right having a playbook.

The point of the post was to refute your point that Trump has denied it or had nothing to do w it, whatever point you were making. That's the part that's really silly to try and argue, IMO.

You want it both ways. You want to support what's in the document but allow Trump to maintain plausible deniability because it's wildly unpopular.

Macarthur said:

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I think much of the document is disgusting but that's not the point.

I have no issue w the right having a playbook.

The point of the post was to refute your point that Trump has denied it or had nothing to do w it, whatever point you were making. That's the part that's really silly to try and argue, IMO.

You want it both ways. You want to support what's in the document but allow Trump to maintain plausible deniability because it's wildly unpopular.

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May I ask what is disgusting?

dermdoc said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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"Wealth redistribution" is just scaremongering. Big spooky socialism.

But you know what, enough about taxes. That's just one part of the equation. Remember a few pages back when we were discussing project 2025? That document wants to completely and utterly demolish any policy that benefits workers. It seeks to weaken unions and allow states to ban them altogether, change the rules for overtime pay, lift some child labor restrictions, and gut the EEOC.

Literally all of these policy proposals benefit corporations and the wealthiest Americans. None benefit workers. They keep wages low, strip workers of more rights, gut their benefits, and make the American dream (if it even still exists) less attainable for even more people. It will widen the wealth gap even more.

I've said this on this thread many times and I'll say it again: this agenda, and those who support it, are openly hostile to working Americans. There's no reason anyone other than the top income earners should ever support it.

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Hey, I am a working American. So I hate myself?

And why are you moving the goalposts? This all started about marginal tax rates. What are we talking about now?

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Actually this all started about Christian nationalism. Then the conversation steered to fiscal policy.

If you're a doctor, and good for you, then you don't have to worry about a lot of this stuff. Exception being if you're an OBGYN. Most of these policy proposals only affect middle and lower class workers.

barbacoa taco said:

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Trump has "disavowed" it because (for all his faults) he still understands how unpopular it is. Same reason he's flip flopping on abortion stuff. Still, the document and the ideas espoused therein are wildly popular among the Republican Party. Also, agenda 47 is basically the same thing, just a bit more moderate on abortion and LGBT stuff

Also how have people not figured out by now that Trump is the far right's useful idiot? The drafters of the document say it's for the "next conservative president" but they are clearly talking about Trump. The GOP ranks know if they are united they can and will pass the most extreme, insane legislation and Trump will sign off on all of it.

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Have you ever considered we think the legislation you support is insane and extreme?

I like Project 2025.

yes I have, and I maintain that it's partly because the Overton window of American politics is still very much slanted to the right.

what do you like about P2025?

barbacoa taco said:

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yes I have, and I maintain that it's partly because the Overton window of American politics is still very much slanted to the right.

what do you like about P2025?

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Pretty much all of it. Especially the part about the traditional family unit, defined genders, and abortion restrictions.

And may I ask if we have had these discussions before when you had another user name?

barbacoa taco said:

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Quote:

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Trump is no Ben Carson but a Christian electing Harris is hard to understand.

Harris - Her Compassion sounds good but the results prove it to be toxic, She supports abortion at any stage of pregnancy, she provoked the war in Russia, defends the terrorist who just killed an American, want to raise taxes on investments, which leads to more inflation. She is hard to vote for, and if you under 25 and she gets us in WWW3 you will be the one's that go.

If you want to get out of school, get a decent job and be able to afford a house, hold your nose and vote for Trump.

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I'm not even defending Kamala here, but you are just making **** up right here. Like come on man.

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She supports abortion at any stage of pregnancy

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no, she just thinks Roe should be codified, which is a pretty mainstream position to take

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she provoked the war in Russia,

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no she didnt. WTF are you talking about?

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defends the terrorist who just killed an American,

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no she didnt, she literally condemned them. WTF are you talking about? do you just make **** up all the time and say it's true? this is such an insanely dishonest statement.

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want to raise taxes on investments, which leads to more inflation.

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for people with net worths over $100m. There are many good faith reasons to still oppose this policy, but this major detail always gets left out.

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She is hard to vote for, and if you under 25 and she gets us in WWW3 you will be the one's that go.

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We aren't bringing the draft back. The only concession I'll give you is I think Kamala isn't anti-war enough and coddles the warmongers in the Democratic Party, for reasons I'll never understand. I for one would like her to have the courage to come out and say we will not participate in a wider war involving Israel and other ME countries, even though a bunch of bad faith actors will cry antisemitism if she says that.

However, her position is much preferable to Trump's, being that she actually wants to work toward a ceasefire, whereas Trump has made it clear he has every intention of flattening Gaza and doing everything he can to assist Bibi in ethnically cleansing Palestine.

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If you want to get out of school, get a decent job and be able to afford a house, hold your nose and vote for Trump.

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Trump has no policy proposals to address any of these issues.

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Actually if you grow the economy then all these issues will be addressed. We do not need anymore government programs which stifles growth and leads to inflation.

And you never answered whether inflation or lower marginal tax rates hurt the poor more. Hint, I know the answer. And you do too.

because you asked the question in bad faith. Inflation has crushed the poor, but only one party has actually been trying to do something about it. Trump has no plans on how to address inflation, other than saying "hey do you 'member how good things were back in 2018?"

Hint: extending the Trump tax cuts won't do anything.

dermdoc said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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yes I have, and I maintain that it's partly because the Overton window of American politics is still very much slanted to the right.

what do you like about P2025?

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Pretty much all of it. Especially the part about the traditional family unit, defined genders, and abortion restrictions.

And may I ask if we have had these discussions before when you had another user name?

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maybe. I'm not sure. P2025 only gained attention in the past year or so, so probably not.

I don't care what your personal views are, I do care that you want to enforce them on everyone, which is exactly why I find P2025 so problematic. Among many other reasons.

I am not DE88.

I don't particularly like Biden but like 99% of the attacks on him from the right when it comes to inflation are done in bad faith. The 2021-22 inflation crisis was sparked by that big worldwide pandemic so many people seem to be forgetting about, that led to shortages, which led to global inflation. It wasn't those big bad stimulus checks that so many people were mad about 4 years ago. The USA has actually handled it better than most developed countries and our economy has recovered nicely, though there is still more progress to be made.

You know what? F it, I'll just say it: conservatives are a bunch of babies about inflation. Just because the inflation rate isn't down to zero everyone acts like Biden sparked the worst economic crisis since 2008. He didn't. The current inflation actually started before he took office. Lest we forget, Trump ran an $8T deficit and spent like crazy.

And then I hear conservatives bellyache about high interest rates, as if that's Biden's fault too. Guess what, taming inflation isn't pleasant. Also the fed reserve chairman is a Republican. hell, we were all worried that high interest rates would trigger a recession. if anything we should be relieved that didn't happen.

Sorry, the "Biden did inflation" takes are so bad and so insanely dishonest. Even though you're very conservative I still expected a bit more honesty from you about this.

I should also state, just to be consistent, that I don't blame Trump for the economic downturn that came with covid either. I have criticism with how he handled covid, but blaming him for how the economy and stock market reacted is stupid, just as it's stupid to pin the blame for inflation on Biden.

Inflation hurts the poor more directly, but cutting taxes for top income earners hurts them over time by widening the income gap, given that trickle down economics does not work.

Also my point with marginal tax rates was that raising them does not meaningfully change most wealthy people's wealth

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Also how have people not figured out by now that Trump is the far right's useful idiot? The drafters of the document say it's for the "next conservative president" but they are clearly talking about Trump. The GOP ranks know if they are united they can and will pass the most extreme, insane legislation and Trump will sign off on all of it.

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What an incredibly stupid thing to say. The one thing we know for sure about Trump is that he isn't a puppet. John Bolton and the other Neocons wouldn't have all jumped ship if they had been able to control Trump.

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Quote:

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she provoked the war in Russia,

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no she didnt. WTF are you talking about?

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Diplomatic efforts were underway to avoid war and Kamala's orders from the Biden administration were to encourage the war at all costs. Because just like the Neocons, the DNC is the military industrial complexes *****.

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And for the life of me, how can anyone with common sense and critical thinking want the federal government to take anymore of anybody's money?

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NowhereMan said:

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Trump is no Ben Carson but a Christian electing Harris is hard to understand.

Harris - Her Compassion sounds good but the results prove it to be toxic, She supports abortion at any stage of pregnancy, she provoked the war in Russia, defends the terrorist who just killed an American, want to raise taxes on investments, which leads to more inflation. She is hard to vote for, and if you under 25 and she gets us in WWW3 you will be the one's that go.

If you want to get out of school, get a decent job and be able to afford a house, hold your nose and vote for Trump.

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I agree with this. As a Christian, if you're not holding your nose while voting for Trump, you need to take a beat an open your eyes. As a Christian the other option is not voting for president but voting R down ballot. I don't believe Trump is a Christian living his faith, but I do believe many in the R party are trying to bring the moral compass back in line. I think Trump is just as likely to get us into a conflict but that's not my concern. If its God's plan that WW3 comes to pass, it will come to pass whomever is in office. Both parties are not going to decrease or slow the nations debt. And Trump has obviously back pedaled on abortion, which is unfortunate.
I don't think anyone really believes our nation will become completely a communist state or theocracy. To much hyperbole from the left and the right.

enough about taxes. I get it, you think the upper class should be taxed less, as well as other classes. Good news, you're probably gonna get your way, even if the Trump tax cuts aren't renewed. 39.6% is still pretty low for the top marginal tax rate.

At this point, the more pressing issue is the GOP and P2025's agenda which will absolutely crush workers, keep their pay low and possibly cut it, and gut nearly every right and protection they have, under the guise of "freedom." That is, freedom for their bosses and big corporations. Some don't even try to hide it (including many of your friends on this website), saying that "worker rights" are bad for business and bad for the economy. And therein lies the problem, the people who you support (especially Donald Trump) react very hostilely when the people they want to control have some bargaining power.

Honestly, if Harris/Walz win and they enact paid family and medical leave and universal school lunches, her approval rating would be the highest in modern history. They'd easily win reelection. I pray they accomplish these things and the American people realize that we don't have to do it the old way. You probably think these things are handouts that make people lazy. I say they are good, worthwhile investments that yield good results, including a strong economy and workforce.

UTExan said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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I should also state, just to be consistent, that I don't blame Trump for the economic downturn that came with covid either. I have criticism with how he handled covid, but blaming him for how the economy and stock market reacted is stupid, just as it's stupid to pin the blame for inflation on Biden.

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The one constant exogenous variable affecting consumer prices seems to be the cost of energy: production and transportation of goods, IOW.
Those energy prices are affected by the bureaucracy controlling federal lands and sea areas where oil and gas may be extracted, and the actions of the Biden administration were adverse to continuing cheap energy costs because of his decisions which impacted the always sensitive energy sector. Initially shutting down oil and gas leases and "mandating" conversion to electrical vehicles in the event and aftermath of Covid most certainly boosted gas prices which hit: you guessed it, the poor and lower middle classes. It also affected utility costs. These were Biden initiatives alone, not anyone else's. They were prima facie idiotic to appease the left wing of his party, much like forgiving student loan debt.

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I agree that the Biden Admin has gone out of its way to hurt American oil production.
In this video a Senator calls it a death by a thousand cuts policy toward oil.


The above hearing over why is only oil being limited to 10mph in the Gulf may not
seem important to you unless you understand how much work is done by crewboats.

barbacoa taco said:

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enough about taxes. I get it, you think the upper class should be taxed less, as well as other classes. Good news, you're probably gonna get your way, even if the Trump tax cuts aren't renewed. 39.6% is still pretty low for the top marginal tax rate.

At this point, the more pressing issue is the GOP and P2025's agenda which will absolutely crush workers, keep their pay low and possibly cut it, and gut nearly every right and protection they have, under the guise of "freedom." That is, freedom for their bosses and big corporations. Some don't even try to hide it (including many of your friends on this website), saying that "worker rights" are bad for business and bad for the economy. And therein lies the problem, the people who you support (especially Donald Trump) react very hostilely when the people they want to control have some bargaining power.

Honestly, if Harris/Walz win and they enact paid family and medical leave and universal school lunches, her approval rating would be the highest in modern history. They'd easily win reelection. I pray they accomplish these things and the American people realize that we don't have to do it the old way. You probably think these things are handouts that make people lazy. I say they are good, worthwhile investments that yield good results, including a strong economy and workforce.

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Cool who pays for them?

And I know the answer. Other people.

And where are there no free school lunches?

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/child-nutrition-programs/national-school-lunch-program/

And I know why you do not want to talk about taxes. Facts are my friend. Emotions are yours.

Sure is easy spending other people's money…..