Martin Q. Blank said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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And here we go with a sensible solution as Trump will relocate them to Egypt, Jordan and wherever.

Edit: or at least that is his initial proposal.

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How? They think they're crazy and haven't opened the border to them in years.

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Trump says they will go there. No if I was Egypt I would say no even if it cost me all the US aid. The Palestinians have been nothing but trouble.

Zobel said:

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does inalienable have too many syllables for you?

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They can pursue life and liberty outside of Gaza.

Asking if inalienable has too many syllables just shows your condescending and pompous attitude…. Although most of us are less than perfect at times.

there is a difference between saying people have given up their right to life and liberty and that they "they can pursue life and liberty outside of Gaza."

i'm glad you've adjusted your approach.

i would rather be pompous and condescending than whatever adjectives describe your denial of inalienable rights. its so myopic im not even sure what the word should be.

maybe the syllables aren't the problem. maybe you don't know what the word means?

unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.
incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred
not transferable to another or not capable of being taken away or denied


people who talk about other humans the way you are deserve condescension. no apologies.

Zobel said:

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does inalienable have too many syllables for you?

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Are you speaking from a religious perspective or political/social perspective?

how do you suggest a christian divide the two?

"Inalienable rights" isn't a Biblical or Christian concept to my knowledge. But just trying to understand what you mean by it.

i disagree. inalienable rights is just a formula to express a truth that Christianity teaches: that all men are created in the image of God, male and female; what is done to the image passes to the prototype; therefore love of God and love of Man are two aspects of the same thing.

no human has the ability to change that another human is made in the image of Christ.

inalienable simply means that there are rights humans have by virtue of being human, and that as long as they are human these cannot be denied, even by the person themself.

the US declaration lists "among these" rights the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. the basic right to life of all humans is a fundamentally and uniquely Christian concept.

"If anyone says, 'I love God,' but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen."


anyone who says that the people of Gaza collectively have forfeited their right to life because of the actions of some people in Gaza are either denying that the people of Gaza are humans, or that being humans they do not have the right to life. No Christian can confess this.

Zobel said:

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there is a difference between saying people have given up their right to life and liberty and that they "they can pursue life and liberty outside of Gaza.".

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I think so.

Not everyone has the right to live in Gaza.

Not everyone has the right to live in the United States.

Not everyone has the right to live in the Vatican.

Not everyone has the right to live in Japan.

Zobel said:

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anyone who says that the people of Gaza collectively have forfeited their right to life because of the actions of some people in Gaza are either denying that the people of Gaza are humans, or that being humans they do not have the right to life. No Christian can confess this.

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At what point are those innocent bystanders responsible for getting the hell out of there and disassociating with the group that was elected in (Hamas)?

So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

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Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

I don't know what the exact, tactical answer is here. I do believe in a hybrid solution that involves the extermination of Hamas and those active and passive in terrorist activities. But I also would want to work to make a way for those who did get caught up in this. I don't see another way other than helping relocate those who would want out.

They literally cannot leave.

ramblin_ag02 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

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Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

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Two months after the attack, 90% of Gazans wanted a Hamas government. 57% said the raid on Israel was good.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

---

Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

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Two months after the attack, 90% of Gazans wanted a Hamas government. 57% said the raid on Israel was good.

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And a lot of Americans were celebrating the assassination of a CEO a few weeks ago. Are they all guilty of murder too?

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

---

Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

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Two months after the attack, 90% of Gazans wanted a Hamas government. 57% said the raid on Israel was good.

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And a lot of Americans were celebrating the assassination of a CEO a few weeks ago. Are they all guilty of murder too?

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Jesus says yes.

You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

---

Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

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Two months after the attack, 90% of Gazans wanted a Hamas government. 57% said the raid on Israel was good.

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And a lot of Americans were celebrating the assassination of a CEO a few weeks ago. Are they all guilty of murder too?

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Jesus says yes.

You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.

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Ok, so you think every person on Earth that applauded the murder of the United HealthCare CEO should spend at least 25 years in prison?

Prison? I'm a capital punishment kind of guy. Eye for an eye.

i am not a pacifist and i am not advocating that good men do nothing in the face of evil.

but there is a wide, wide, wide ocean of difference between put an end to violence and the people of gaza deserve to be eradicated, or do not have a right to life, etc.

the example of the giant clans that Israel is commanded to destroy is not particularly apt. those were demonic tribes literally practicing human sacrifice up to and including cannibalism. i could be wrong, but i don't think that is going on in gaza.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Prison? I'm a capital punishment kind of guy. Eye for an eye.

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So you think everyone that celebrated Luigi Mangioni deserves the death penalty?

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

---

Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

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Two months after the attack, 90% of Gazans wanted a Hamas government. 57% said the raid on Israel was good.

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And a lot of Americans were celebrating the assassination of a CEO a few weeks ago. Are they all guilty of murder too?

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The Left is evil also.

Zobel said:

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i am not a pacifist and i am not advocating that good men do nothing in the face of evil.

but there is a wide, wide, wide ocean of difference between put an end to violence and the people of gaza deserve to be eradicated, or do not have a right to life, etc.

the example of the giant clans that Israel is commanded to destroy is not particularly apt. those were demonic tribes literally practicing human sacrifice up to and including cannibalism. i could be wrong, but i don't think that is going on in gaza.

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Of course they don't sacrifice their children. The boys will be trained to hate and kill Jews and Christians and the women are valuable to give birth to more jihadists.

SirDippinDots said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

---

Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

---

Two months after the attack, 90% of Gazans wanted a Hamas government. 57% said the raid on Israel was good.

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And a lot of Americans were celebrating the assassination of a CEO a few weeks ago. Are they all guilty of murder too?

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The Left is evil also.

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Plenty on the right were celebrating this as well. If cheerleading murder is enough for Palestinians to deserve death and exile, then we need to round up a lot of Americans for doing the same

ramblin_ag02 said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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So my follow up would be at what point are they also to blame for essentially going along with Hamas in charge. Doesn't really matter if they didn't ignite a bomb or raid Israel on 10/7.

I am just thinking back to the Old Testament where God instructs Israel to purge the evil from among them - included men, women, children, livestock - every living, breathing thing. Leaving a remnant will guarantee that the cycle repeats.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that we purge the people of Gaza off the face of the planet. But I am wondering what we should think of evil and eliminating it in its totality. How do you do that without there being some collateral damage?

---

Then we're back to the question of collective guilt. If a man can't be held responsible for his father's sins, then why would innocent civilians be responsible for the crimes of militants? That's like saying you and I are responsible when a drone strike hits a full wedding party in Afghanistan that we had no knowledge of and no power to stop

---

Two months after the attack, 90% of Gazans wanted a Hamas government. 57% said the raid on Israel was good.

---

And a lot of Americans were celebrating the assassination of a CEO a few weeks ago. Are they all guilty of murder too?

---

The Left is evil also.

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Plenty on the right were celebrating this as well. If cheerleading murder is enough for Palestinians to deserve death and exile, then we need to round up a lot of Americans for doing the same

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That was bad. I understand grievances against insurance companies. I don't like them but there is no perfect system. I personally don't know anyone that thought it was ok.

Atheists hate everyone except Jews. Everyone hates Mormons except Catholics. Jews hate evangelicals more than Muslims and love atheists. What an interesting survey.

edit: I assume the Jew & atheist bromance is largely because a large number of Jews are atheist?

Serotonin said:

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Macarthur said:

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This thread makes me physically ill.

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It's a weird situation where a subset of American Christians performatively construct extreme level of hate based on a conflict of other groups, while the actual groups involved don't even share that level of hate.

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This is summarized perfectly in the Pew Favorability ratings below.

Evangelical Protestants favorability ratings for other groups:
- Muslims: -20
- Jews: +39

Jewish favorability ratings for other groups:
- Muslims: -8
- Evangelical Christians: -40 (!!!)

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I love Mormons now. Polygamybros 4 lyfe

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Atheists hate everyone except Jews. Everyone hates Mormons except Catholics. Jews hate evangelicals more than Muslims and love atheists. What an interesting survey.

edit: I assume the Jew & atheist bromance is largely because a large number of Jews are atheist?

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https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/03/15/americans-feel-more-positive-than-negative-about-jews-mainline-protestants-catholics/

Yeah you are spot on.

Broadly speaking the strong personal belief that 'there is no God' is not an issue or at conflict with Jewish identity (here or in Israel). You don't stop being a Jew based on your belief or non-belief in God.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Atheists hate everyone except Jews. Everyone hates Mormons except Catholics. Jews hate evangelicals more than Muslims and love atheists. What an interesting survey.

edit: I assume the Jew & atheist bromance is largely because a large number of Jews are atheist?

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Atheists aren't generally running around trying to convert Jews or claiming to be the real Jews/Israel or attempting to use Jews as a pawn in their eschatology. The numbers in the U.S. for Jews are essentially, "who leaves us alone the most."

"The wicked plots against the righteous and gnashes his teeth at him, but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming" Psalm 37: 12-13

"You are my war club, my weapon for battle. With you I shatter nations; with you I bring kingdoms to ruin." Jeremiah 51:20