The innocent Palestinians we should weap for.

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Zobel
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:14a, 2/8/25
AG
Haha, no, because it's not. No one is replacing anyone. Grafting a branch into a tree does not replace the tree. You don't understand, and that's ok.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Zobel • 9:21a, 2/8/25
Zobel said:
Haha, no, because it's not. No one is replacing anyone. Grafting a branch into a tree does not replace the tree. You don't understand, and that's ok.


Buddy, you can justify it all you want, but it's by definition supersessionism. You're claiming that you are now the "real" Israel and the Jews are false. That the Jewish tradition is not valid unless it aligns with your theology. You're assuming the tree of Abraham for yourself and cutting out a the children of Abraham who don't follow you.
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Zobel
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:36a, 2/8/25
AG
im not your buddy, pal.


Quote:
it's by definition supersessionism
no, it isnt.
Quote:
You're claiming that you are now the "real" Israel
close. i'm claiming i was grafted in to israel. never said anything about real or fake, except that the modern nation state of israel is not the israel of God.


Quote:
and the Jews are false.
never said that
Quote:
That the Jewish tradition is not valid unless it aligns with your theology.
never said that.

Quote:
You're assuming the tree of Abraham for yourself and cutting out a the children of Abraham who don't follow you.
wrong again. has nothing to do with me.

fractally wrong.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Zobel • 9:51a, 2/8/25
You've repeatedly espoused supersessionist theology and claimed to be the true Israel. You can try to weasel away from it however much you want, but your entire approach to Judaism is supersessionist. Unless you're now claiming that modern Jews are the true Israel and Judaism is a valid covenant. But if you're claiming that the real tree is only that which accepts Christianity and any Jews who do not are not Israel, then you're supersessionist.
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Zobel
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:56a, 2/8/25
AG
ive never espoused supresessionist theology, so i don't need to weasel away form anything.

everything you're saying is wrong, except for the fact that gentiles are a part of Israel.

was Paul of Tarsus a supresessionist?
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Zobel
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:57a, 2/8/25
AG
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Zobel • 10:51a, 2/8/25
Zobel said:
ive never espoused supresessionist theology, so i don't need to weasel away form anything.

everything you're saying is wrong, except for the fact that gentiles are a part of Israel.

was Paul of Tarsus a supresessionist?


You've espoused it throughout your discussions of Jews and Judaism. And yeah, a number of scholars and early Christian writers (including Justin Martyr and Iraneus) have claimed Paul was a suoersessionist or used his claims to advance blatant supersessionism.
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Quo Vadis?
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11:20a, 2/8/25
Unfortunately Zobel isnt a supersessionist, would be a lot cooler if he was.

Take heart Sapper, there are 50,000,000 evangelicals who will tell you that Catholics are going to hell for not trusting in Christ, and Jews are the chosen people.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Quo Vadis? • 11:24a, 2/8/25
Don't worry, Bustup, I know exactly who and what you believe.
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Zobel
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 1:32p, 2/8/25
AG
I haven't. You didn't understand what I was saying then either.

I didnt ask what some scholars said or for your opinion on St Irenaus. I asked you. Was he or not?
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Zobel • 6:43p, 2/8/25
Zobel said:
I haven't. You didn't understand what I was saying then either.

I didnt ask what some scholars said or for your opinion on St Irenaus. I asked you. Was he or not?


I don't think he was initially. I think as it became clearer that the world wasn't going to end in a few years he became one and as his church became predominately non-Jewish, the theology became explicitly supersessionist.
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Zobel
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 7:16p, 2/8/25
AG
Over against his own teaching. Makes sense.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Zobel • 8:06p, 2/8/25
Zobel said:
Over against his own teaching. Makes sense.
You've never seen someone's arguments and opinions evolve over time and in the face of new evidence? Interesting.
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Zobel
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:00p, 2/8/25
AG
You'd have to show where he contradicted himself. He never repudiates that the calling and election are irrevocable. And there is never anything about replacement in his writings. I am whatever St Paul is, and I don't really care what you label it, because you are unwilling or unable to engage with what the actual claims are. You prefer to think I and St Paul are antisemitic.
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SirDippinDots
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2:05a, 2/22/25
Here the Palestinians celebrating when the dead Israeli babies are released.

https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/50275
I wish a buck was still silver, it was back, when the country was strong.
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BonfireNerd04
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In reply to SirDippinDots • 1:20p, 3/2/25
SirDippinDots said:
Here the Palestinians celebrating when the dead Israeli babies are released.

https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/50275
The Palestinian apologists here have been awfully quiet this past week.
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swimmerbabe11
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1:27p, 3/2/25
Are you.. gloating? cause thats.. a choice.
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Macarthur
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1:28p, 3/2/25
So, what exactly is the point of the post? Some Palestinians were happy about this. I'm sure I can find clips of Israelis celebrating the death of Palestinians. What's the point?
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Zobel
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1:31p, 3/2/25
AG
There aren't any Palestinian apologists in this thread, so their silence is not surprising.
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lobopride
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In reply to Macarthur • 6:29a
Macarthur said:
So, what exactly is the point of the post? Some Palestinians were happy about this. I'm sure I can find clips of Israelis celebrating the death of Palestinians. What's the point?
I doubt you could find anything analogous. Palestinians are so stooped in Jew hatred that a dead Jew is a good Jew for them. Babies or not. I don't think the same is true for most Israelis.
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Macarthur
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In reply to lobopride • 6:41a
lobopride said:
Macarthur said:
So, what exactly is the point of the post? Some Palestinians were happy about this. I'm sure I can find clips of Israelis celebrating the death of Palestinians. What's the point?
I doubt you could find anything analogous. Palestinians are so stooped in Jew hatred that a dead Jew is a good Jew for them. Babies or not. I don't think the same is true for most Israelis.
100% I could. Are you kidding me?
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lobopride
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In reply to Macarthur • 9:02a
Macarthur said:
lobopride said:
Macarthur said:
So, what exactly is the point of the post? Some Palestinians were happy about this. I'm sure I can find clips of Israelis celebrating the death of Palestinians. What's the point?
I doubt you could find anything analogous. Palestinians are so stooped in Jew hatred that a dead Jew is a good Jew for them. Babies or not. I don't think the same is true for most Israelis.
100% I could. Are you kidding me?
Ok, show me proof of Jews cheering on the murder of babies.
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Macarthur
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9:47a
I'm traveling so I can't dedicate a ton of time to this currently butt his took about 30 seconds google. If you're not aware of the dehumanization of Palestinians, you need to reevaluate your news sources.


https://www.newarab.com/news/shocking-gaza-crimes-dominate-israels-purim-celebrations?amp

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2024/1/24/why-are-israeli-soldiers-sharing-snuff-videos-from-their-genocide-in-gaza

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing
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lobopride
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In reply to Macarthur • 10:15a
I read the three articles. I just don't see how the two sides are close to being the same.

If Israel wanted to it could kill every person in Gaza before the world noticed. What would happen if Hamas had that same capacity to kill every Jew in Israel?

Generally, people in Israel are not celebrating the death of children. The closest any of the articles you posted even came to something analogous was "not being worried about civilian deaths". These are not apples to apples comparisons.
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Macarthur
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In reply to lobopride • 10:42a
lobopride said:
I read the three articles. I just don't see how the two sides are close to being the same.

If Israel wanted to it could kill every person in Gaza before the world noticed. What would happen if Hamas had that same capacity to kill every Jew in Israel?

Generally, people in Israel are not celebrating the death of children. The closest any of the articles you posted even came to something analogous was "not being worried about civilian deaths". These are not apples to apples comparisons.


I couldn't disagree w you more.
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to lobopride • 11:16a
AG
Quote:
If Israel wanted to it could kill every person in Gaza before the world noticed. What would happen if Hamas had that same capacity to kill every Jew in Israel?
This reasoning doesn't make any sense. Of course the people in the worse situation would be more brutal. To give a historical analog, "If the South wanted to it could kill every slave before the world even noticed. What would happen if the slaves had that same capacity?" Would anyone ever use that argument to prove the moral superiority of slave owners? "If the nuclear countries wanted to they could destroy all the 3rd world countries before anyone noticed. What would happen if all the 3rd world countries had that many nukes?" It just a line of reasoning that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny
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lobopride
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 11:48a
ramblin_ag02 said:
Quote:
If Israel wanted to it could kill every person in Gaza before the world noticed. What would happen if Hamas had that same capacity to kill every Jew in Israel?
This reasoning doesn't make any sense. Of course the people in the worse situation would be more brutal. To give a historical analog, "If the South wanted to it could kill every slave before the world even noticed. What would happen if the slaves had that same capacity?" Would anyone ever use that argument to prove the moral superiority of slave owners? "If the nuclear countries wanted to they could destroy all the 3rd world countries before anyone noticed. What would happen if all the 3rd world countries had that many nukes?" It just a line of reasoning that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny


I'm not the one claiming that both sides are the same. The Palestinians are not victims here. Not even close.
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Zobel
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In reply to lobopride • 11:56a
AG
Define "here"?

100 years ago if you heard about a terrorist attack in Jerusalem you would have assumed (rightly) it conducted by Zionists against Arabs or the British.

You don't have to support either side in this conflict. It's super easy.
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