Neil Shenvi is pretty great at discussing CRT and its negative impacts on the Christian church
Marvin_Zindler said:I still remember listening to Voddie speak at youth camp at Glen Rose in 8th grade. He has come a long way.Frok said:
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
You and I went to the same Super Summer at HSU. I think I was in Green School that year.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:I still remember listening to Voddie speak at youth camp at Glen Rose in 8th grade. He has come a long way.Frok said:
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
I had Vodie at a camp as well.
as a teenager, one of the dopest Super Summers i ever went to had Matt Chandler and Chris Tomlin before either of them blew up in the late 90s.
Marvin_Zindler said:Whoooaaa.....calm down. I am not---nor have I ever said---I am a Driscoll pumper. I think he has some serious character flaws that are disqualifying for the office of pastor.94chem said:
If you want to start The First Church of the Barrel-Chested Angry Dad Bods for Jesus, there will be plenty of members. His mind isn't worthy of changing. He's kind of an intellectual midget.
That said, he is not wrong on some things. Look back at his predictions on the trajectory of the Episcopal church 15-years ago and tell me he was wrong. He is also not wrong on CRT. If you want 30K foot overview, see the clip above. If you want a 2K foot overview, YoutTube Voddie Baucham.
People can be terrible and still be right. Also, God can use broken vessels to draw the lost to salvation. He is that big and good.
Marvin_Zindler said:You and I went to the same Super Summer at HSU. I think I was in Green School that year.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:I still remember listening to Voddie speak at youth camp at Glen Rose in 8th grade. He has come a long way.Frok said:
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
I had Vodie at a camp as well.
as a teenager, one of the dopest Super Summers i ever went to had Matt Chandler and Chris Tomlin before either of them blew up in the late 90s.
Calm down. I was talking about the podcast host's (Mike Cosper) critique of Driscoll within the first 5 minutes of the episode. Did you even listen?94chem said:Marvin_Zindler said:Whoooaaa.....calm down. I am not---nor have I ever said---I am a Driscoll pumper. I think he has some serious character flaws that are disqualifying for the office of pastor.94chem said:
If you want to start The First Church of the Barrel-Chested Angry Dad Bods for Jesus, there will be plenty of members. His mind isn't worthy of changing. He's kind of an intellectual midget.
That said, he is not wrong on some things. Look back at his predictions on the trajectory of the Episcopal church 15-years ago and tell me he was wrong. He is also not wrong on CRT. If you want 30K foot overview, see the clip above. If you want a 2K foot overview, YoutTube Voddie Baucham.
People can be terrible and still be right. Also, God can use broken vessels to draw the lost to salvation. He is that big and good.
.
The Episcopal Church? Really? That was a hard one to call. I'm only 49, so I didn't see it coming until about 1987.
Don't remember the cow costume, but that is pretty funny. I still remember that last night of worship in the big auditorium. Have some good memories of Super Summers.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:You and I went to the same Super Summer at HSU. I think I was in Green School that year.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:I still remember listening to Voddie speak at youth camp at Glen Rose in 8th grade. He has come a long way.Frok said:
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
I had Vodie at a camp as well.
as a teenager, one of the dopest Super Summers i ever went to had Matt Chandler and Chris Tomlin before either of them blew up in the late 90s.
I may have been green school. I think the years I went were green and yellow. Definitely HSU though.
If you remember a guy in a cow suit on some different occasions, that was ...not me.
I may or may not have a picture of ... not me... in a cow suit with Chandler and Tomlin.
Marvin_Zindler said:Calm down. I was talking about the podcast host's (Mike Cosper) critique of Driscoll within the first 5 minutes of the episode. Did you even listen?94chem said:Marvin_Zindler said:Whoooaaa.....calm down. I am not---nor have I ever said---I am a Driscoll pumper. I think he has some serious character flaws that are disqualifying for the office of pastor.94chem said:
If you want to start The First Church of the Barrel-Chested Angry Dad Bods for Jesus, there will be plenty of members. His mind isn't worthy of changing. He's kind of an intellectual midget.
That said, he is not wrong on some things. Look back at his predictions on the trajectory of the Episcopal church 15-years ago and tell me he was wrong. He is also not wrong on CRT. If you want 30K foot overview, see the clip above. If you want a 2K foot overview, YoutTube Voddie Baucham.
People can be terrible and still be right. Also, God can use broken vessels to draw the lost to salvation. He is that big and good.
.
The Episcopal Church? Really? That was a hard one to call. I'm only 49, so I didn't see it coming until about 1987.
Marvin_Zindler said:Don't remember the cow costume, but that is pretty funny. I still remember that last night of worship in the big auditorium. Have some good memories of Super Summers.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:You and I went to the same Super Summer at HSU. I think I was in Green School that year.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:I still remember listening to Voddie speak at youth camp at Glen Rose in 8th grade. He has come a long way.Frok said:
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
I had Vodie at a camp as well.
as a teenager, one of the dopest Super Summers i ever went to had Matt Chandler and Chris Tomlin before either of them blew up in the late 90s.
I may have been green school. I think the years I went were green and yellow. Definitely HSU though.
If you remember a guy in a cow suit on some different occasions, that was ...not me.
I may or may not have a picture of ... not me... in a cow suit with Chandler and Tomlin.
94chem said:Marvin_Zindler said:Calm down. I was talking about the podcast host's (Mike Cosper) critique of Driscoll within the first 5 minutes of the episode. Did you even listen?94chem said:Marvin_Zindler said:Whoooaaa.....calm down. I am not---nor have I ever said---I am a Driscoll pumper. I think he has some serious character flaws that are disqualifying for the office of pastor.94chem said:
If you want to start The First Church of the Barrel-Chested Angry Dad Bods for Jesus, there will be plenty of members. His mind isn't worthy of changing. He's kind of an intellectual midget.
That said, he is not wrong on some things. Look back at his predictions on the trajectory of the Episcopal church 15-years ago and tell me he was wrong. He is also not wrong on CRT. If you want 30K foot overview, see the clip above. If you want a 2K foot overview, YoutTube Voddie Baucham.
People can be terrible and still be right. Also, God can use broken vessels to draw the lost to salvation. He is that big and good.
.
The Episcopal Church? Really? That was a hard one to call. I'm only 49, so I didn't see it coming until about 1987.
I've listened to 3 or 4 of the episodes thus far. I was already 25 when the whole Josh Harris nonsense started, so I never understood what evangelical leaders were talking about when they mentioned courtship. I just figured there was some secret code that I didn't need to know in order to find a wife. Turns out, like Driscoll, Harris was another sad case of too much, too soon, with too little accountability. Mix in too little education, and it's the evangelical mix and repeat celebrity cycle.
Agree. Very similar to Hollywood and music.94chem said:
I pointed out the similarities...too much, too soon, with too little accountability and education. Child stars.
I'll leave the soul-judging to God.
So you read Paul's sermon on Mars Hills as the same as Edwards "Sinners in the hands of an angry God"?PaulTony said:
CT has become the CNN of Christian media.
This podcast will do nothing for your soul offers little evidence of accusations and proposes a standard that Luther Calvin Edwards and Paul would have missed. If you need more train wrecks to watch then tune in.
dermdoc said:10andBOUNCE said:
Piper continues to stand the test of time
I do not believe in predetermined limited atonement so I do not read Piper much.
He also wrote a book on retirement where he stated that if you retired and did nothing except relax you could lose your salvation which seemed very odd for a "7 point"Calvinist.
Spot on....and I remember the exact same feeling..."I'm in the middle of something very significant."c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:Don't remember the cow costume, but that is pretty funny. I still remember that last night of worship in the big auditorium. Have some good memories of Super Summers.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:You and I went to the same Super Summer at HSU. I think I was in Green School that year.c-jags said:Marvin_Zindler said:I still remember listening to Voddie speak at youth camp at Glen Rose in 8th grade. He has come a long way.Frok said:
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
I had Vodie at a camp as well.
as a teenager, one of the dopest Super Summers i ever went to had Matt Chandler and Chris Tomlin before either of them blew up in the late 90s.
I may have been green school. I think the years I went were green and yellow. Definitely HSU though.
If you remember a guy in a cow suit on some different occasions, that was ...not me.
I may or may not have a picture of ... not me... in a cow suit with Chandler and Tomlin.
Yeah. I remember that night. One of the first time I really felt an impression of the spirit moving amongst others. Probably not a safe thing to say amongst other Baptists.
If I remember correctly, Chandler came out to speak and Tomlin pushed him off stage because it was obvious that there was something going on in the worship.
i don't follow him, but i've seen a few clips of it from other christian accounts. he does seem to be going hard in the paint after it along with Vodie.Marvin_Zindler said:
If you follow Driscoll on social media, he has spent the last week-12 days going hard after CRT and wokeness in the church. Gotta think it's a direct shot at CT….if at least in a small way.
I hated the Bobby Knight episode.Frok said:
I stopped listening after the Bobby Knight episode. Mike Costa is out of content and none of the key people are giving him interviews anymore.
I don't like "produced" podcasts where they just take quotes from people. What I want is a Joe Rogan style interview where Mike Costa sits down with Mark Driscoll for 2 hours and they just talk.
PaulTony said:
CT has become the CNN of Christian media.
This podcast will do nothing for your soul offers little evidence of accusations and proposes a standard that Luther Calvin Edwards and Paul would have missed. If you need more train wrecks to watch then tune in.
AGC said:c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
Well that's the thing though: are they even his teachings? That's what the Docent controversy is about. That's what's engulfing the SBC right now. It was plagiarism that has kind of morphed into another facet of sermon prep: should it be done by committee or outsourced? When you endorse groups that do the exegesis for you one has to wonder.
Is there a connection between belief and practice? Forget presidential politics, look at how Moore handled the last SBC presidential vote by leaking letters and recordings. Are these examples of a Bible believing Christian? Or a man who should be called to repentance?
May I ask what Rob Bell's shortcomings are?Senor Butthead said:
So when I was at A&M from 2010-14, the Christian bubble I was a part of was very much a thing. I had heard a lot about Driscoll and Mars Hill, mainly that he was a preacher in seattle. I thought Rob Bell was the pastor of MH, and it broke my heart when I found out about his shortcomings recently. I had a few of his sermons downloaded on my iPod back in the day. It's like a weird where are they now episode.
What's crazy is in the beginning of the podcast, I really liked what Driscoll had to say about being strong, biblical men of honor, virtue, and integrity. It's a shame he couldn't live up to that.
I admittedly haven't been going to church in a long time, pretty much since my campus pastor went to prison for attempting to rape a child and kill her mother but that's another story altogether. Just more proof that you can't put your faith in people, just in God.
Long story short: theological drift. He founded Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids MI in 1999. Was a part of that mix of the Shane Claiborne/Brian McClaren/Doug Pagget emergent church stream that grew up in the early 2000s. He wrote a book that was popular at the time: Velvet Elvis.dermdoc said:May I ask what Rob Bell's shortcomings are?Senor Butthead said:
So when I was at A&M from 2010-14, the Christian bubble I was a part of was very much a thing. I had heard a lot about Driscoll and Mars Hill, mainly that he was a preacher in seattle. I thought Rob Bell was the pastor of MH, and it broke my heart when I found out about his shortcomings recently. I had a few of his sermons downloaded on my iPod back in the day. It's like a weird where are they now episode.
What's crazy is in the beginning of the podcast, I really liked what Driscoll had to say about being strong, biblical men of honor, virtue, and integrity. It's a shame he couldn't live up to that.
I admittedly haven't been going to church in a long time, pretty much since my campus pastor went to prison for attempting to rape a child and kill her mother but that's another story altogether. Just more proof that you can't put your faith in people, just in God.