I went to another Seattle church that is classified as a mega church. 5 campuses, 3500 people weekly. They did a lot to try to prevent this sort of thing happening. I really respect the head pastor who let the satellites have their own pastor and leadership team instead of sending him out over the airwaves like Driscoll. He was still the head pastor and they churches followed a similar teaching but the you might hear one pastor use different stories to get the point across. They went to a lot of effort to avoid any one person from becoming the sole teacher.
Christianity Today: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill (Mark Driscoll)
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Last: 2 yr ago by diehard03
Quote:
The one thing that could have stopped him was a strong denominational structure.
There's so many things that could have stopped him, so I don't think the denomination is a necessity. It also creates problems that didn't exist before.
Any structure has the power to hurt people when abused. It doesn't mean the structure itself is wrong.
That is true.
In this case, I doubt Driscoll could have made it through the centralized career structures that Methodists or Catholics tend to have. By his own admission, Mark Driscoll didn't have the experience or wisdom to start a church, and a larger structure could have helped.
But, to your point, those structures can often end up being used for the wrong reasons.
Personally, those structures helped navigate me away from a career in ministry, which I was never going to be good at. I would have been a disaster, and I love what I do now.
In this case, I doubt Driscoll could have made it through the centralized career structures that Methodists or Catholics tend to have. By his own admission, Mark Driscoll didn't have the experience or wisdom to start a church, and a larger structure could have helped.
But, to your point, those structures can often end up being used for the wrong reasons.
Personally, those structures helped navigate me away from a career in ministry, which I was never going to be good at. I would have been a disaster, and I love what I do now.
Eh I have seen a psychopath be promoted upward in the Methodist church but not have the same "reach as driscoll" so I call bull **** on that.
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Saxsoon said:
Eh I have seen a psychopath be promoted upward in the Methodist church but not have the same "reach as driscoll" so I call bull **** on that.
Quote:
Personally, those structures helped navigate me away from a career in ministry, which I was never going to be good at. I would have been a disaster, and I love what I do now.
I like that you are enjoying what you do now, but I'll push back on this notion that ministry is something that someone can not be good at.
it's not accounting. Personally speaking, I think what we've defined ministry as, has gone off the rails.
It's called 'Don't Waste Your Life' --- and I think you missed the point of the book.dermdoc said:10andBOUNCE said:
Piper continues to stand the test of time
I do not believe in predetermined limited atonement so I do not read Piper much.
He also wrote a book on retirement where he stated that if you retired and did nothing except relax you could lose your salvation which seemed very odd for a "7 point"Calvinist.
And no.... I am not a particularly strong Piper fan.
He should NOT pastor at all given his two reprobate sons. Not all Christians agree on this though.
I said the same thing about Chandler and Moore until a few months ago.c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
I no longer consider either in communion with me. Elders at my Reformed CREC church would deny communion to both now. I am not saying that they are NOT Christians.... but their error on SJW/Marxist influence philosophies are problematic and HURTING the global church. They need to be disciplined and shunned. But a large swatch of the reformed churches have been taken over by the SJW crowd.
There is a VERY strong possibility that Moore may not be a Christian. I find his behavior to be more similar to a snake than a believer. He should be avoided. No individual person has done more damage to the SBC than Russell Moore.AGC said:c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
Well that's the thing though: are they even his teachings? That's what the Docent controversy is about. That's what's engulfing the SBC right now. It was plagiarism that has kind of morphed into another facet of sermon prep: should it be done by committee or outsourced? When you endorse groups that do the exegesis for you one has to wonder.
Is there a connection between belief and practice? Forget presidential politics, look at how Moore handled the last SBC presidential vote by leaking letters and recordings. Are these examples of a Bible believing Christian? Or a man who should be called to repentance?
TheEternalPessimist said:I said the same thing about Chandler and Moore until a few months ago.c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
I no longer consider either in communion with me. Elders at my Reformed CREC church would deny communion to both now. I am not saying that they are NOT Christians.... but their error on SJW/Marxist influence philosophies are problematic and HURTING the global church. They need to be disciplined and shunned. But a large swatch of the reformed churches have been taken over by the SJW crowd.
While you're entitled to your opinion and I do think that Chandler and Moore are way off base politically, I just don't see it on the doctrine level as being worthy of excommunication. You may know more than I do. I consider myself reformed and very conservative politically, but I'm not hearing gospel issues that I find that extreme enough to merit that.
To the topic of the OP.... I finally got past the initial point I was at when I started listening over a month ago and holy heck, they went way off base with some of the interviewees. I used the scenario elsewhere, the people he brought in were like asking the Lincoln Project or the DNC to review the Trump presidency.
Bringing in Joshua Harris to comment on this made me lose a lot of respect for Cosper and CT, his explanations aside.
I really thought the whole thing was very well done and Cosper was a fantastic host, but man they lost me when they started bringing in some of the people from outside the church to pontificate.
It's definitely a good warning against the cult of personality and absolute power corrupting.
I've been listening and at times I'm not even sure what the point is. The latest episode talked about Bobby Knight for the majority of it and then circled back to Mark Driscoll but still never really talked about him.
I think they are trying to drag this podcast out as long as they can because it's successful....which kind of ironic.
I think they are trying to drag this podcast out as long as they can because it's successful....which kind of ironic.
Frok said:
I've been listening and at times I'm not even sure what the point is. The latest episode talked about Bobby Knight for the majority of it and then circled back to Mark Driscoll but still never really talked about him.
I think they are trying to drag this podcast out as long as they can because it's successful....which kind of ironic.
Yup, though I don't think it's really all that successful. I think people want to know about Mark but they don't have much left to offer (and maybe they didn't ever have much which they alluded to when they talked about the delay in releasing the latest episodes).
Frok said:
I've been listening and at times I'm not even sure what the point is. The latest episode talked about Bobby Knight for the majority of it and then circled back to Mark Driscoll but still never really talked about him.
I think they are trying to drag this podcast out as long as they can because it's successful....which kind of ironic.
100% trying to drag it out. The Joshua Harris Episode and this Bobby Knight one kinda sealed it.
Again, Cosper was a great host but he wore me out towards the end.
I'm still trying to figure out how mark Driscoll physically assaulted kids like Bob Knight.
What a ridiculous analogy.
What a ridiculous analogy.
You'd deny communion based on this?TheEternalPessimist said:I said the same thing about Chandler and Moore until a few months ago.c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
I no longer consider either in communion with me. Elders at my Reformed CREC church would deny communion to both now. I am not saying that they are NOT Christians.... but their error on SJW/Marxist influence philosophies are problematic and HURTING the global church. They need to be disciplined and shunned. But a large swatch of the reformed churches have been taken over by the SJW crowd.
https://waynation.com/video/watch-matt-chandler-address-racism-in-his-own-church/
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
94chem said:You'd deny communion based on this?TheEternalPessimist said:I said the same thing about Chandler and Moore until a few months ago.c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
I no longer consider either in communion with me. Elders at my Reformed CREC church would deny communion to both now. I am not saying that they are NOT Christians.... but their error on SJW/Marxist influence philosophies are problematic and HURTING the global church. They need to be disciplined and shunned. But a large swatch of the reformed churches have been taken over by the SJW crowd.
https://waynation.com/video/watch-matt-chandler-address-racism-in-his-own-church/
yeah nothing disqualifying there at all . disagree with a whole whole lot of points Chandler makes there, but nothing at all unbiblical. maybe his comment about justice from the old testament, but you could have a reasoned argument about it.
his part about tokenism is a tough conversation, but he's dead on right.
there's a difference in disagreeing with root cause of issues and how to fix them and incorporating false doctrine for specific purpose politically. Chandler has not been guilty of that in any way i've seen.
Would they deny communion to someone like Driscoll or Doug Wilson? Or Greg Locke?Quote:
I no longer consider either in communion with me. Elders at my Reformed CREC church would deny communion to both now. I am not saying that they are NOT Christians.... but their error on SJW/Marxist influence philosophies are problematic and HURTING the global church. They need to be disciplined and shunned. But a large swatch of the reformed churches have been taken over by the SJW crowd.
Interesting statement considering the documented sexual abuse and harassment by leaders such as Paige Patterson.TheEternalPessimist said:There is a VERY strong possibility that Moore may not be a Christian. I find his behavior to be more similar to a snake than a believer. He should be avoided. No individual person has done more damage to the SBC than Russell Moore.AGC said:c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
Well that's the thing though: are they even his teachings? That's what the Docent controversy is about. That's what's engulfing the SBC right now. It was plagiarism that has kind of morphed into another facet of sermon prep: should it be done by committee or outsourced? When you endorse groups that do the exegesis for you one has to wonder.
Is there a connection between belief and practice? Forget presidential politics, look at how Moore handled the last SBC presidential vote by leaking letters and recordings. Are these examples of a Bible believing Christian? Or a man who should be called to repentance?
I am not that familiar with Moore but cringe when Christians start talking about "real" Christians or when professing Christians have their faith questioned because of disagreements on non salvific issues.
May I ask you what makes you doubt Moore's Christian faith? That is a very serious accusation and should not be issued lightly imho.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
So are you saying that a professing Christian who does not conform to your political views is not a Christian?TheEternalPessimist said:I said the same thing about Chandler and Moore until a few months ago.c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
I no longer consider either in communion with me. Elders at my Reformed CREC church would deny communion to both now. I am not saying that they are NOT Christians.... but their error on SJW/Marxist influence philosophies are problematic and HURTING the global church. They need to be disciplined and shunned. But a large swatch of the reformed churches have been taken over by the SJW crowd.
Because from reading a little on Moore it seems he is "too liberal" in his political views for some. How is that construed that he is not a Christian?
And I am conservative politically as they come. But imho that has nothing to do with being a Christian.
And denying communion based on what was posted?
Wow.
It seems as if your church delights in excluding anybody who thinks a little differently than them. Imho, the exact opposite of what Christ taught.
Heck, Moore is even a self proclaimed Calvinist who believes in ECT hell.
Again, I say wow.
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i don't think he's saying they're not christians, just that he considers them in habitual sin for their political viewpoints.dermdoc said:So are you saying that a professing Christian who does not conform to your political views is not a Christian?TheEternalPessimist said:I said the same thing about Chandler and Moore until a few months ago.c-jags said:AGC said:Martin Q. Blank said:
What ever happened to him? In fact, I haven't heard much from that whole crowd - John Piper, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Kevin DeYoung.
Spectacular fall. The podcast is a great listen. It's part of what spurred my posts in the other thread.
Chan is catholic now of course. DeYoung is being accused of white supremacy despite not trying to be a white supremacist by Duke Kwon. Chandler is full SJW and ironically tied in to SBC sermongate because several years ago he endorsed Docent Research Group which hires non pastors without theology degrees to do exegetical analysis to create sermons for mega church pastors like Keller, Greear, Litton, etc.
while i disagree on Chandler's political views when it comes to race a 0 sum game, i feel like he's still pretty darn biblical in his teachings from what i still read or listen to.
i can see how some people arrive at some different sjw issues from the Bible than i arrive at my personal opinion, but i haven't heard him go off the deep end.
i'm pretty critical of Russell Moore from a political perspective and that i think his comments outside of the Bible are pretty short-sided, but he's still a Bible believing Christian.
I no longer consider either in communion with me. Elders at my Reformed CREC church would deny communion to both now. I am not saying that they are NOT Christians.... but their error on SJW/Marxist influence philosophies are problematic and HURTING the global church. They need to be disciplined and shunned. But a large swatch of the reformed churches have been taken over by the SJW crowd.
Because from reading a little on Moore it seems he is "too liberal" in his political views for some. How is that construed that he is not a Christian?
And I am conservative politically as they come. But imho that has nothing to do with being a Christian.
And denying communion based on what was posted?
Wow.
It seems as if your church delights in excluding anybody who thinks a little differently than them. Imho, the exact opposite of what Christ taught.
Heck, Moore is even a self proclaimed Calvinist who believes in ECT hell.
Again, I say wow.
the same way that some catholics agree with Biden being denied communion for his political stance on abortion. not agreeing or disagreeing it, just clarifying what i think he's saying.
and i'm like you, i'm as conservative as they come politically, but i constantly must check my own personal political opinion against the gospel and the Bible and adjust myself, not the Bible on those points.
my qualm with the two in question is that i think Chandler takes some race issues and conflates them as fact and Moore (who is actually a Democratic politician) spent way too much time digging on Trump and not enough working to do what he was hired for.
i.e. Chandler's going to talk about biblical justice from the old testament in the situation of George Floyd. George Floyd was a career criminal who resisted arrest and died at the hands of an overzealous cop. Agree with the judicial outcome of that trial or not, justice was served. Trying to equate that event to a modern church that may or may not be too white in attendance is reaching for the sake of relevancy of a modern cultural movement and has nothing to do with justice as it's quoted in Isaiah.
Moore does and says a ton of great things that i 100% agree with. But he spent 4 years trying to make sure Trump wasn't reelected instead of working with a president that was politically aligned with him (AND HIS POSITION IS TO BE THE POLITICAL ARM OF THE SBC.)
On the flip side, far too many people will forgive or wave away the disgusting behavior of Falwell Jr. because he supported "their guy" when it's obvious that there's not an ounce of repentance in him.
He posted
There is a VERY strong possibility that Moore is not a Christian.
There is a VERY strong possibility that Moore is not a Christian.
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there's a strong possibility that jerry fallwell jr. isn't a christian. that's just like my opinion, man. there was a really long thread when he had his proper fall from grace.dermdoc said:
He posted
There is a VERY strong possibility that Moore is not a Christian.
i try to be very cautious in saying somebody is or isn't a christian. i strongly dislike Joel Olsteen, and think his teaching is detrimental, but he does (quietly) still talk about Jesus and the gospel on occasion. as much as i might think he's NOT a believer, that's going to be between him and God.
i'm not agreeing with him (EternalPessimist) at all. I share his frustrations, but don't see anything disqualifying for Moore or Chandler. i consider Moore and Chandler both believers and brothers in Christ and they have done much more good for the cause of Christ than harm, even if i disagree with Moore's actions at the SBC or a nonsalvation topic in a sermon from Chandler.
I like and listen to Joel Osteen and find he mentions Jesus and cites Bible verses more than almost any other pastor I have listened to. And I do not find a prosperity Gospel at all. Maybe it is me as I have a very simple faith. And believe God loves us and wants us to be healthy, happy, prosperous, and bear fruits.c-jags said:there's a strong possibility that jerry fallwell jr. isn't a christian. that's just like my opinion, man. there was a really long thread when he had his proper fall from grace.dermdoc said:
He posted
There is a VERY strong possibility that Moore is not a Christian.
i try to be very cautious in saying somebody is or isn't a christian. i strongly dislike Joel Olsteen, and think his teaching is detrimental, but he does (quietly) still talk about Jesus and the gospel on occasion. as much as i might think he's NOT a believer, that's going to be between him and God.
i'm not agreeing with him (EternalPessimist) at all. I share his frustrations, but don't see anything disqualifying for Moore or Chandler. i consider Moore and Chandler both believers and brothers in Christ and they have done much more good for the cause of Christ than harm, even if i disagree with Moore's actions at the SBC or a nonsalvation topic in a sermon from Chandler.
One thing I like about Joel is he always takes the high road with criticism. And always reacts with grace. And never speaks poorly of other faith leaders. Contrast that with John MacArthur.
For all the bluster about Osteen's wealth, MacArthur is worth I believe about 20 million. Piper is worth 10-20 million also. And I have no problem with that. Just feel that a lot of the Osteen criticism is unfounded.
I like Joseph Prince also. Most people I know beat themselves up enough without having a pastor doing it. With the Gospel of all things which means "Good news".
Guess I am a heretic.
And I have never heard Osteen or Prince ever say send money and you will be blessed.
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Osteen's teaching is a bunch of gobbledygook about the power of positive thinking. It's a motivational speech with a few bible words here and there.
Name it and claim it is certainly prosperity gospel preaching. I think Osteen is big on that.
Name it and claim it is certainly prosperity gospel preaching. I think Osteen is big on that.
How much have you listened to him?Frok said:
Osteen's teaching is a bunch of gobbledygook about the power of positive thinking. It's a motivational speech with a few bible words here and there.
Name it and claim it is certainly prosperity gospel preaching. I think Osteen is big on that.
And do you think God wants us to suffer or be healthy, prosperous, and fruitful?
And I know as Christians we will suffer because of sin and evil in this world. I also believe, as Osteen preaches, that some suffering is God disciplining us and preparing us for future glory.
I have a problem with Christians who seem to almost look for suffering or believe they are not "real" Christians unless they are "suffering".
John MacArthur has five principles to "know" as per him you are of the elect.
Saved, sanctified, spirit filled, submissive, and suffering.
Where is faith and grace? And if we are not suffering do we fail MacArthur's requirements? Seems to be man based.
And my interpretation of Scripture is that Jesus and the Spirit help us through our suffering which is part of life due to sin and evil. Because of Christ we are victors, not victims.
I do not think we are supposed to seek out suffering.
And Osteen is not my favorite. But I do not think he is a prosperity preacher.
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I used to watch Osteen and I even read a book of his once. It was before I really understood the gospel well enough to discern what I was hearing. He can be motivating and I think that's why people follow him.
I do not think God's main desire is for me to be healthy and prosperous. If so then why am I not? I guess I just don't have enough faith. All of that fails the moment you leave America and enter a third world country.
We will suffer, especially if we follow Christ. That doesn't mean we seek it out or use it as a badge of faith. But it's important for us to understand there is more at stake than our earthly well-being.
I do not think God's main desire is for me to be healthy and prosperous. If so then why am I not? I guess I just don't have enough faith. All of that fails the moment you leave America and enter a third world country.
We will suffer, especially if we follow Christ. That doesn't mean we seek it out or use it as a badge of faith. But it's important for us to understand there is more at stake than our earthly well-being.
I agree completely on having a eternal mind set.Frok said:
I used to watch Osteen and I even read a book of his once. It was before I really understood the gospel well enough to discern what I was hearing. He can be motivating and I think that's why people follow him.
I do not think God's main desire is for me to be healthy and prosperous. If so then why am I not? I guess I just don't have enough faith. All of that fails the moment you leave America and enter a third world country.
We will suffer, especially if we follow Christ. That doesn't mean we seek it out or use it as a badge of faith. But it's important for us to understand there is more at stake than our earthly well-being.
God's main desire is to glorify Him in what we do. And I think He loves us and wants us to be healthy and prosperous. And a lot of times it is our fault and not His that we are not.
Agree with you on third world countries but I think that is due to sin and evil and poor leadership.
And I still think some Christians look for suffering as a badge of honor. And sorry but I feel like MacArthur is promoting that. He does not say we will suffer, or to expect suffering, but that we must be suffering. I know you are shocked that I would disagree with what MacArthur said.
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I understand your issue with MacArthur, He's a great preacher but he can be abrasive. I certainly don't agree with him on certain points but I appreciate his teaching nonetheless.
…..but he is not a guy I would want to have a beer with
…..but he is not a guy I would want to have a beer with
No pastor here but I have plenty of beer.
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Driscoll is not wrong here and a number of the people that he used to run with should take heed.
The false teaching and ideology that is Critical Theory is the greatest threat to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's putting a lot of younger Christians in harm's way. Change my mind. pic.twitter.com/JtrcvXtqk5
— Pastor Mark Driscoll (@PastorMark) October 1, 2021
Marvin_Zindler said:
Driscoll is not wrong here and a number of the people that he used to run with should take heed.The false teaching and ideology that is Critical Theory is the greatest threat to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's putting a lot of younger Christians in harm's way. Change my mind. pic.twitter.com/JtrcvXtqk5
— Pastor Mark Driscoll (@PastorMark) October 1, 2021
Just move to Maricopa County with a bunch of angry white Sheriff Joe Clones and yell at the choir. Zero interest in what he has to say. Can get it elsewhere. He has no training as a theologian, and I doubt he can even define critical race theory. I can't. I just know it's some buzzword that makes 50-somethings on F16 go into fits while they're waiting for a kraken to be released. He resigned from Mars Hill and Acts 29 - not because he was removed - but because he refused to submit to any restoration process. That is what wolves do.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
If you want to start The First Church of the Barrel-Chested Angry Dad Bods for Jesus, there will be plenty of members. His mind isn't worthy of changing. He's kind of an intellectual midget.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
Whoooaaa.....calm down. I am not---nor have I ever said---I am a Driscoll pumper. I think he has some serious character flaws that are disqualifying for the office of pastor.94chem said:
If you want to start The First Church of the Barrel-Chested Angry Dad Bods for Jesus, there will be plenty of members. His mind isn't worthy of changing. He's kind of an intellectual midget.
That said, he is not wrong on some things. Look back at his predictions on the trajectory of the Episcopal church 15-years ago and tell me he was wrong. He is also not wrong on CRT. If you want 30K foot overview, see the clip above. If you want a 2K foot overview, YoutTube Voddie Baucham.
People can be terrible and still be right. Also, God can use broken vessels to draw the lost to salvation. He is that big and good.
I still remember listening to Voddie speak at youth camp at Glen Rose in 8th grade. He has come a long way.Frok said:
I know what critical race theory is and I do agree it is a real threat however Mark Driscoll is not the best person to deliver that message. Voddie Baucham is probably the best resource for that.
Aggball2010
Was the final pitcher in game 3 Using an illegal substance?
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AggieBucksJB
Was the final pitcher in game 3 Using an illegal substance?
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Angry Beaver
Was the final pitcher in game 3 Using an illegal substance?
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missinAggieland
Was the final pitcher in game 3 Using an illegal substance?
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AeroAg2012
Was the final pitcher in game 3 Using an illegal substance?
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country
we just won 4 straight series against 4 ranked opponents.
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RafterAg223
we just won 4 straight series against 4 ranked opponents.
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AggieBucksJB
Was the final pitcher in game 3 Using an illegal substance?
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AgEngr12
Was the final pitcher in game 3 Using an illegal substance?
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Harry Stone
we just won 4 straight series against 4 ranked opponents.
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Kansas Kid
Georgia scores 9 runs on the top ranked team in the country in first inning
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TDAggie
You guys ever notice how many baseball players wear necklaces?
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