Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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garc said:

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Tysonb@m said:

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The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.

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So we should elect Billy Graham?

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Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.

Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.

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If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.

I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.

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But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.

What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.

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So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?

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Why the personal attacks and lies? What actions are "pro-Christian"? Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in? Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays? Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife? Also, America-fist isn't a Christian philosophy.

And please don't assume what I'd rather have. I don't care who runs the government. I'm a voluntaryist so I'd prefer to tear the whole thing down. I do care about people who profess Christ for no reason other than to win a popularity contest. I do care about the witness of the church being damaged by getting into bed with people like Trump or Hillary. I do care about the Savior of the world being used as a prop for man's politics. I do care about ministers goaltending for people like Trump. We don't need Christians in bed with degenerates. We need prophets speaking truth to the sins of the state and its leaders. We need Nathans and Samuels.

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Whoa, dude, calm down. Seriously, this is just a discussion. If you think I'm lying, please point it out. If I am, I'll issue a correction, no problem.

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Calm down? I asked you to stop w/ the personal crap, and then asked questions about Trump. Can you please explain what "pro-Christian" things Trump has done, outside of slashing how many Christian refugees we take in, the constant mocking and derision of others, the affairs and cover-ups of those affairs?

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I'd like you to point out where I was lying about you first.

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• You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard - Outside of those who share your worldview and certain other trolls, I don't think you'd get much agreement on this here. Especially considering I get criticized regularly by people for what you're saying I don't do.
• You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal - I'm a voluntaryist. I don't give a rat's ass who runs Rome/Babylon/America. I care about the body of Christ being a witness to Christ.

PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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garc said:

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Tysonb@m said:

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The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.

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So we should elect Billy Graham?

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Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.

Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.

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If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.

I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.

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But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.

What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.

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So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?

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Why the personal attacks and lies? What actions are "pro-Christian"? Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in? Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays? Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife? Also, America-fist isn't a Christian philosophy.

And please don't assume what I'd rather have. I don't care who runs the government. I'm a voluntaryist so I'd prefer to tear the whole thing down. I do care about people who profess Christ for no reason other than to win a popularity contest. I do care about the witness of the church being damaged by getting into bed with people like Trump or Hillary. I do care about the Savior of the world being used as a prop for man's politics. I do care about ministers goaltending for people like Trump. We don't need Christians in bed with degenerates. We need prophets speaking truth to the sins of the state and its leaders. We need Nathans and Samuels.

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Whoa, dude, calm down. Seriously, this is just a discussion. If you think I'm lying, please point it out. If I am, I'll issue a correction, no problem.

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Calm down? I asked you to stop w/ the personal crap, and then asked questions about Trump. Can you please explain what "pro-Christian" things Trump has done, outside of slashing how many Christian refugees we take in, the constant mocking and derision of others, the affairs and cover-ups of those affairs?

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I'd like you to point out where I was lying about you first.

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• You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard - Outside of those who share your worldview and certain other trolls, I don't think you'd get much agreement on this here. Especially considering I get criticized regularly by people for what you're saying I don't do.
• You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal - I'm a voluntaryist. I don't give a rat's ass who runs Rome/Babylon/America. I care about the body of Christ being a witness to Christ.

Now can you answer my questions without lying about me?

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You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal

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You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard

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Sullys Guy said:

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You mean personal crap like falsely accusing someone of being an adulterer? Or browsing through people's unrelated post history?

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Sigh....can you at least stop claiming that it's me derailing threads and making them about myself? Also, what are the dates of those comments, and the context in which they're made. I certainly don't support a theocracy, but I also no longer support the existence of the state itself. That doesn't mean I don't hold my fellow believers to any standard. The state has no bearing on that standard.

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What are you talking about? You came after me. I'm not derailing anything. I expressed a legitimate opinion about Trump promoting Christian issues. You jumped all over it. I merely restated your own opinions to show that he is the type of person you have stated you could support. You called me a liar and I showed you direct quotes as proof.

Now, since I've shown that I'm not a liar and didn't personally attack you at all, I will address your questions.

Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in?

Well, I've seen posters refer to Palestinians (including Christians) in horrible ways, including yourself. I don't really think you have a leg to stand on here. However, his work against ISIS has saved far more Christian refugees from torture, death, and enslavement than any reduction of the ones we bring here.

Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays?

Sure. Rejecting PC'ism and promoted a greeting that acknowledges Christ is a good thing.

Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife?

So what. I've already stated he isn't a perfect Christian. Neither are you. If you are going to hold him to standards of perfection, I guess you should apply it to yourself as well.

Also, America-first isn't a Christian philosophy.

Its his job, though, and he executes it in a way that isn't anti-Christian. We aren't bombing people. We are trying to make the world safer through big-stick diplomacy instead of funding the bad guys or starting wars. Even his limited military actions are surgical and designed to limit the time of engagement.

He is a good leader and doing a good job.

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Sigh....can you at least stop claiming that it's me derailing threads and making them about myself? Also, what are the dates of those comments, and the context in which they're made. I certainly don't support a theocracy, but I also no longer support the existence of the state itself. That doesn't mean I don't hold my fellow believers to any standard. The state has no bearing on that standard.

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What are you talking about? You came after me. I'm not derailing anything. I expressed a legitimate opinion about Trump promoting Christian issues. You jumped all over it. I merely restated your own opinions to show that he is the type of person you have stated you could support. You called me a liar and I showed you direct quotes as proof. - I didn't come after you. I asked you to support your position. What has he done? I know he's slashed the number of Christian refugees we take in. I do believe, since he's a professed believer, that he's damaged the witness of the church. I simply asked you what are these "pro-Christian" things he's done. That's when you got upset about me holding him to a standard.

Now, since I've shown that I'm not a liar and didn't personally attack you at all, I will address your questions. - You have shown no such thing. It's no secret that I'm not the person I used to be. Can you please provide dates of the quotes you posted?

Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in?

Well, I've seen posters refer to Palestinians (including Christians) in horrible ways, including yourself. I don't really think you have a leg to stand on here. However, his work against ISIS has saved far more Christian refugees from torture, death, and enslavement than any reduction of the ones we bring here. - Wait, I have referred to Palestinians in horrible ways? Again, were these comments from years ago? Heck, I've had people call me anti-semitic because of my love of the Palestinian people.

Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays?

Sure. Rejecting PC'ism and promoted a greeting that acknowledges Christ is a good thing. - Saying "Merry Christmas" vs "Happy Holidays" has nothing to do w/ the Christian faith. Happy holidays makes sense since there are numerous holidays during that season. Someone saying "happy holidays" isn't 'PC-ism' or anti-Christian.

Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife?

So what. I've already stated he isn't a perfect Christian. Neither are you. If you are going to hold him to standards of perfection, I guess you should apply it to yourself as well. - I expect all Christians, myself included, to be held to the standard of Christ. That your response to mocking, derision and adultery is "so what?" is telling.

Also, America-first isn't a Christian philosophy.

Its his job, though, and he executes it in a way that isn't anti-Christian. We aren't bombing people. We are trying to make the world safer through big-stick diplomacy instead of funding the bad guys or starting wars. Even his limited military actions are surgical and designed to limit the time of engagement. - Yes, we bomb people every day and we fund people who bomb others every day. We are funding bad guys, but simply delude ourselves into thinking that our "bad guys" are simply better than their "bad guys".

He is a good leader and doing a good job. - That's a matter of opinion. This isn't about his political performance though. He could be the greatest leader in the history of America. That doesn't matter. Where are the fruits of the Spirit? This is the R&P board, so that's the relevant question here.

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Orko said:

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Eyeroll at the thread derail, but I'm fair-minded so I'll engage your curiosity. Just a thought, though, not every thread has to devolve into a "Pacifist" thread. Sometimes we can engage and discuss each other's views and opinions without having to get so upset. - Yeah, you're the one who derailed this. I asked about Trump, which is the subject of the post. You made this about me, as usual.

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It's no secret that I'm not the person I used to be. Can you please provide dates of the quotes you posted?

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I'm just using your standard. You frequently use old quotes or mischaracterize what people are saying. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Or, to borrow a phrase from you, "just because people change their name, it's just a different wrapper; and it's still the same belief, like putting a snickers bar in a mars wrapper". - But the difference is that I'm actually not the same. I've had a marked change in who I am. If anyone knew me before, they see this. I own my past. I'm repulsed by my past. I'm no longer a "snickers" bar though, and anyone who knew me before can attest to that. So, if you want to pull up past quotes, I'll own them. But to do so without dates is dishonest because there's a stark difference between who I was and who I am now. There's been a change. Where's the change in the alt-right white "advocates", aside from embracing an ideology that is even more irreconcilable with the Gospel?

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Wait, I have referred to Palestinians in horrible ways?

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These people make me absolutely sick to my stomach. They are savages. They complain about living such a miserable life, but that is largely a product of their uncivilized behavior... They have yet to prove they are capable of self-governance, and until that time comes Israel should continue to crush the threats to their security. <-- You wrote this. - Yes, I wrote that YEARS ago. Since then, I've been to the West Bank. I've gotten to know the people. This is your intellectual dishonesty on display. I have never denied I used to be a vile person who would have likely loved much of Trump's vile way of thinking. I'm not that same person, so those past quotes, while great for your little game of "gotcha" aren't accurate reflections of me. Everyone here, who is honest, knows this.

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Saying "Merry Christmas" vs "Happy Holidays" has nothing to do w/ the Christian faith.

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Objectively false. - Nope.

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I expect all Christians, myself included, to be held to the standard of Christ. That your response to mocking, derision and adultery is "so what?" is telling.

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Oh, I acknowledge that it is wrong and very, very bad. I also started off by saying Trump isn't a good guy. So you pointing out that he isn't a good guy gets met with a "So what?" - And you are throwing a hissy fit because I am expecting Trump to live according to the standard he claims when he claims Christ. It's the standard of all Christians, and we are to judge those within the church. He claims to be in the church.

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That's a matter of opinion. This isn't about his political performance though. He could be the greatest leader in the history of America. That doesn't matter. Where are the fruits of the Spirit? This is the R&P board, so that's the relevant question here.

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Yeah, I gave my opinion. Constantine, not so good guy, great for advancing Christianity. Charlemagne, somewhat better, but still no saint, great for advancing Christianity. Donald Trump has the potential to be in the same vain. - Donald Trump isn't advancing Christianity. I'd argue he's doing more to damage the witness of the church than anything. Saying "merry Christmas" isn't advancing Christianity. HTH.

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That is exactly what I'm talking about right there. You want special treatment. I've never made the claim that I'm alt-right, you just projected that label onto me, along with that of "racist" and "Hitler sympathizer". I'm none of those things. However, I'm at least honest, so I'll only apply labels that fit you. For instance, and to keep this on a Presidential theme, I could bring up that you hate Lincoln and love Jefferson Davis. Or that you think slavery was bad, but should have been left up to the states. You said that a guy that rape his slaves was the most brilliant mind to ever occupy the office, and yet you are here harping on Trump.

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Until you cease such antics yourself and cease applying false-labels to posters, you cannot claim this is intellectually dishonest. You are merely being judged as you yourself have judged.

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If I, even before you started replying to me, started off by acknowledging that Trump is not a good person, but advances Christian causes, then why do you keep harping on the same point over an over? It does nothing to advance the discussion. You say you are a changed person, but this is exactly in the style of your previous wrapper. It doesn't seem like you've changed much at all.

Come on, Pacifist, lets have a genuine conversation where you don't falsely label everyone and cry foul when a conversation doesn't go your way. Lets just use this discussion forum as it is intended.

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I thought that was ironic, considering you hold Trump to some standard of perfection. Its really, really weird, but that previous wrapper was pretty open about stuff. The new one hides that stuff behind a veneer of voluntarism, tolerance of degeneracy, and non-intervention all masked with Church of Nice theology. Its fine. I get those are your beliefs and I'm not trying to deny them to you, but it doesn't sound like much has changed outside of the personal pacifism.

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PacifistAg said:

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I thought that was ironic, considering you hold Trump to some standard of perfection. Its really, really weird, but that previous wrapper was pretty open about stuff. The new one hides that stuff behind a veneer of voluntarism, tolerance of degeneracy, and non-intervention all masked with Church of Nice theology. Its fine. I get those are your beliefs and I'm not trying to deny them to you, but it doesn't sound like much has changed outside of the personal pacifism.

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Nothing ironic about it at all. It would only be ironic if I still held those beliefs and also held Trump to the standard that all Christians are held to. What is ironic is you saying I tolerate degeneracy while you support Donald Trump.

Of course you don't believe much has changed. That's because you choose to see me in the worst possible light since I call out your vile ideology for what it is. So that's your way of insulting. I will admit that I've not changed in that I have a hard time dealing with trolls and purposely antagonistic people. And what you call "Church of Nice theology" is actually just the teachings of Jesus Christ, made so clearly in His Sermon on the Mount.

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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I thought that was ironic, considering you hold Trump to some standard of perfection. Its really, really weird, but that previous wrapper was pretty open about stuff. The new one hides that stuff behind a veneer of voluntarism, tolerance of degeneracy, and non-intervention all masked with Church of Nice theology. Its fine. I get those are your beliefs and I'm not trying to deny them to you, but it doesn't sound like much has changed outside of the personal pacifism.

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Nothing ironic about it at all. It would only be ironic if I still held those beliefs and also held Trump to the standard that all Christians are held to. What is ironic is you saying I tolerate degeneracy while you support Donald Trump.

Of course you don't believe much has changed. That's because you choose to see me in the worst possible light since I call out your vile ideology for what it is. So that's your way of insulting. I will admit that I've not changed in that I have a hard time dealing with trolls and purposely antagonistic people. And what you call "Church of Nice theology" is actually just the teachings of Jesus Christ, made so clearly in His Sermon on the Mount.

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Hahahaha! I'd definitely kick him out of any church I was an elder in. No doubt about that. He is serving a pro-Christian purpose, though. Just like Constantine did.

My "vile ideology"! OH THE HORROR!! Can you say what you think my ideology actually is?

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PacifistAg said:

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Orko said:

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PacifistAg said:

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I thought that was ironic, considering you hold Trump to some standard of perfection. Its really, really weird, but that previous wrapper was pretty open about stuff. The new one hides that stuff behind a veneer of voluntarism, tolerance of degeneracy, and non-intervention all masked with Church of Nice theology. Its fine. I get those are your beliefs and I'm not trying to deny them to you, but it doesn't sound like much has changed outside of the personal pacifism.

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Nothing ironic about it at all. It would only be ironic if I still held those beliefs and also held Trump to the standard that all Christians are held to. What is ironic is you saying I tolerate degeneracy while you support Donald Trump.

Of course you don't believe much has changed. That's because you choose to see me in the worst possible light since I call out your vile ideology for what it is. So that's your way of insulting. I will admit that I've not changed in that I have a hard time dealing with trolls and purposely antagonistic people. And what you call "Church of Nice theology" is actually just the teachings of Jesus Christ, made so clearly in His Sermon on the Mount.

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Hahahaha! I'd definitely kick him out of any church I was an elder in. No doubt about that. He is serving a pro-Christian purpose, though. Just like Constantine did.

My "vile ideology"! OH THE HORROR!! Can you say what you think my ideology actually is?

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Ah, so you will tolerate degeneracy if they are part of your tribe and you can claim, without evidence, that they're serving a pro-Christian purpose? That's convenient. The irony of any Trump supporter criticizing others for "tolerating degeneracy". That's impressive cognitive dissonance right there.

Tolerating degeneracy if you think they're doing "good". That's the definition of "ends justify the means", and the Christian faith is no "ends justify the means" faith. Please tell me you're no elder in a church.

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PacifistAg said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Bryanisbest said:

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Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.

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It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.

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TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.

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However, as long as he is advancing pro-Christian purposes and governing America-first, then why would I oppose him

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However, as long as he is advancing pro-Christian purposes

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He is the President, not the Pope.

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I think you just want Gary Johnson. Different wrapper, same ideology.

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Orko said:

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Actually, that's a really good point.

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NonReg85 said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Bryanisbest said:

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Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.

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It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.

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TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.

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You're probably correct but I don't think it will have much effect at the polls. The choice was Hillary. Next time the democrats may run someone better but right now it looks like they will go more extreme.

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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PacifistAg said:

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NonReg85 said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Bryanisbest said:

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Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.

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It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.

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TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.

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You're probably correct but I don't think it will have much effect at the polls. The choice was Hillary. Next time the democrats may run someone better but right now it looks like they will go more extreme.

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It may not have an effect at the polls. I'm not a big "lesser of two evils" person though. I get the logic behind it, but to me, it's still choosing evil. I say let them go extreme. That will only serve to highlight the way of Christ even more, as the distinctions between the world and Christ will become less muddied than if we continue to sanction "lesser evil".

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You think Trump is evil? Why?

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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PacifistAg said:

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NonReg85 said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Bryanisbest said:

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Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.

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It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.

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TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.

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You're probably correct but I don't think it will have much effect at the polls. The choice was Hillary. Next time the democrats may run someone better but right now it looks like they will go more extreme.

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It may not have an effect at the polls. I'm not a big "lesser of two evils" person though. I get the logic behind it, but to me, it's still choosing evil. I say let them go extreme. That will only serve to highlight the way of Christ even more, as the distinctions between the world and Christ will become less muddied than if we continue to sanction "lesser evil".

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You think Trump is evil? Why?

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Again. Poe's law up in hur.

Nope banging a porn star while your 3rd wife is at home with your infant is clearly the stuff of saints.

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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PacifistAg said:

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NonReg85 said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Bryanisbest said:

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Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.

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It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.

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TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.

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You're probably correct but I don't think it will have much effect at the polls. The choice was Hillary. Next time the democrats may run someone better but right now it looks like they will go more extreme.

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It may not have an effect at the polls. I'm not a big "lesser of two evils" person though. I get the logic behind it, but to me, it's still choosing evil. I say let them go extreme. That will only serve to highlight the way of Christ even more, as the distinctions between the world and Christ will become less muddied than if we continue to sanction "lesser evil".

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You think Trump is evil? Why?

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Again. Poe's law up in hur.

Nope banging a porn star while your 3rd wife is at home with your infant is clearly the stuff of saints.

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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PacifistAg said:

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NonReg85 said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Bryanisbest said:

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Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.

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It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.

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TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.

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You're probably correct but I don't think it will have much effect at the polls. The choice was Hillary. Next time the democrats may run someone better but right now it looks like they will go more extreme.

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It may not have an effect at the polls. I'm not a big "lesser of two evils" person though. I get the logic behind it, but to me, it's still choosing evil. I say let them go extreme. That will only serve to highlight the way of Christ even more, as the distinctions between the world and Christ will become less muddied than if we continue to sanction "lesser evil".

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You think Trump is evil? Why?

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Again. Poe's law up in hur.

Nope banging a porn star while your 3rd wife is at home with your infant is clearly the stuff of saints.

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