Dr. Watson said:swimmerbabe11 said:
This thread got wierd.
Counterpoint: this thread started weird.
UTExan said:Dr. Watson said:swimmerbabe11 said:
This thread got wierd.
Counterpoint: this thread started weird.
What? You want non-controversial pablum about the correct vestment to wear on St Swithin's Day?
That is a repulsive image.Dr. Watson said:UTExan said:Dr. Watson said:swimmerbabe11 said:
This thread got wierd.
Counterpoint: this thread started weird.
What? You want non-controversial pablum about the correct vestment to wear on St Swithin's Day?
Correct answer: decorative meat helmets. Fight me.
The problem is that Trump claims to be a believer. You have "ministers" out there claiming he's a believer. Once he claims it, he needs to live it regardless of what his job is. This "we didn't elect a pastor" line is hogwash. No, you didn't elect a pastor, but you did elect someone who claims to be a follower of Christ. As such, he's held to the standard that all Christians are. To claim such yet produce no fruit is damaging to the witness of the body of Christ.Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.
PacifistAg said:TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.
"Bait the left" isn't a fruit of the Spirit. You had implied he's done good things for Christians. What are they? I see many ministers completely discredited by getting into bed with him. What are you referring to?Bryanisbest said:PacifistAg said:TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.
A great phenomenon of consequences is already happening. Trump continues to bait the left and the MSM into self-destruction. See Ps 7:15-16; Ps 9:15-16. He is causing them to stew in their own juice. Kavanaugh deal is the latest example.
Okay, so he's doing good things for Republicans. What's that have to do with Christianity?Quote:
Republicans prospects for mid terms have been reversed to their good!
Bryanisbest said:PacifistAg said:TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.
A great phenomenon of consequences is already happening. Trump continues to bait the left and the MSM into self-destruction. See Ps 7:15-16; Ps 9:15-16. He is causing them to stew in their own juice. Kavanaugh deal is the latest example. Republicans prospects for mid terms have been reversed to their good!
Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:PacifistAg said:TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.
A great phenomenon of consequences is already happening. Trump continues to bait the left and the MSM into self-destruction. See Ps 7:15-16; Ps 9:15-16. He is causing them to stew in their own juice. Kavanaugh deal is the latest example. Republicans prospects for mid terms have been reversed to their good!
Not really. You may want to look at the latest projections.
Bryanisbest said:Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:PacifistAg said:TBH, I honestly feel that's the best thing this Trump phenomenon has resulted in. It's completely discredited the more partisan-driven ministers, such as Jeffress, Copeland, Graham and Dobson. It's had a "wheat from the chaff" effect. I wish we could have such a winnowing to those partisan ministers on the other side as well.Dr. Watson said:Bryanisbest said:
Cyrus was not a believer but he certainly did a lot for those who were. Trump is another Cyrus even if not a believer.
It's funny that after two years in office Trump is lauded as some great figure for the religious. I have a feeling selling out to him is going to have massive consequences down the line. This isn't ancient Persia with a monarch and subjects without political voices.
A great phenomenon of consequences is already happening. Trump continues to bait the left and the MSM into self-destruction. See Ps 7:15-16; Ps 9:15-16. He is causing them to stew in their own juice. Kavanaugh deal is the latest example. Republicans prospects for mid terms have been reversed to their good!
Not really. You may want to look at the latest projections.
I have looked but not at the ones that predicted a Clinton victory
Bryanisbest said:
Uh, the Polls predicted a Clinton electoral college victory
Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
Bryanisbest said:PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
Dimes difference in Hillary and Trump?" I would be a rich man with a few of those dimes.
If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.Orko said:If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.
So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?PacifistAg said:But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.Orko said:If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.
What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.
Why the personal attacks and lies? Can we finally move past all that crap? What actions are "pro-Christian"? Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in? Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays? Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife? Also, America-first isn't a Christian philosophy.Orko said:So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?PacifistAg said:But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.Orko said:If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.
What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.
Whoa, dude, calm down. Seriously, this is just a discussion. If you think I'm lying, please point it out. If I am, I'll issue a correction, no problem.PacifistAg said:Why the personal attacks and lies? What actions are "pro-Christian"? Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in? Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays? Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife? Also, America-fist isn't a Christian philosophy.Orko said:So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?PacifistAg said:But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.Orko said:If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.
What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.
And please don't assume what I'd rather have. I don't care who runs the government. I'm a voluntaryist so I'd prefer to tear the whole thing down. I do care about people who profess Christ for no reason other than to win a popularity contest. I do care about the witness of the church being damaged by getting into bed with people like Trump or Hillary. I do care about the Savior of the world being used as a prop for man's politics. I do care about ministers goaltending for people like Trump. We don't need Christians in bed with degenerates. We need prophets speaking truth to the sins of the state and its leaders. We need Nathans and Samuels.
Calm down? I asked you to stop w/ the personal crap, and then asked questions about Trump. Can you please explain what "pro-Christian" things Trump has done, outside of slashing how many Christian refugees we take in, the constant mocking and derision of others, the affairs and cover-ups of those affairs?Orko said:Whoa, dude, calm down. Seriously, this is just a discussion. If you think I'm lying, please point it out. If I am, I'll issue a correction, no problem.PacifistAg said:Why the personal attacks and lies? What actions are "pro-Christian"? Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in? Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays? Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife? Also, America-fist isn't a Christian philosophy.Orko said:So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?PacifistAg said:But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.Orko said:If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.
What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.
And please don't assume what I'd rather have. I don't care who runs the government. I'm a voluntaryist so I'd prefer to tear the whole thing down. I do care about people who profess Christ for no reason other than to win a popularity contest. I do care about the witness of the church being damaged by getting into bed with people like Trump or Hillary. I do care about the Savior of the world being used as a prop for man's politics. I do care about ministers goaltending for people like Trump. We don't need Christians in bed with degenerates. We need prophets speaking truth to the sins of the state and its leaders. We need Nathans and Samuels.
I'd like you to point out where I was lying about you first.PacifistAg said:Calm down? I asked you to stop w/ the personal crap, and then asked questions about Trump. Can you please explain what "pro-Christian" things Trump has done, outside of slashing how many Christian refugees we take in, the constant mocking and derision of others, the affairs and cover-ups of those affairs?Orko said:Whoa, dude, calm down. Seriously, this is just a discussion. If you think I'm lying, please point it out. If I am, I'll issue a correction, no problem.PacifistAg said:Why the personal attacks and lies? What actions are "pro-Christian"? Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in? Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays? Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife? Also, America-fist isn't a Christian philosophy.Orko said:So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?PacifistAg said:But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.Orko said:If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.
What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.
And please don't assume what I'd rather have. I don't care who runs the government. I'm a voluntaryist so I'd prefer to tear the whole thing down. I do care about people who profess Christ for no reason other than to win a popularity contest. I do care about the witness of the church being damaged by getting into bed with people like Trump or Hillary. I do care about the Savior of the world being used as a prop for man's politics. I do care about ministers goaltending for people like Trump. We don't need Christians in bed with degenerates. We need prophets speaking truth to the sins of the state and its leaders. We need Nathans and Samuels.
