Orko said:I'd like you to point out where I was lying about you first.PacifistAg said:Calm down? I asked you to stop w/ the personal crap, and then asked questions about Trump. Can you please explain what "pro-Christian" things Trump has done, outside of slashing how many Christian refugees we take in, the constant mocking and derision of others, the affairs and cover-ups of those affairs?Orko said:Whoa, dude, calm down. Seriously, this is just a discussion. If you think I'm lying, please point it out. If I am, I'll issue a correction, no problem.PacifistAg said:Why the personal attacks and lies? What actions are "pro-Christian"? Slashing the number of Christian refugees we take in? Or is it that he yammers on and on about silly things like what greeting to use during the holidays? Or the mocking and derision of others? Or is it covering up affairs from his 3rd wife? Also, America-fist isn't a Christian philosophy.Orko said:So. You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard. His actions are extremely pro-Christian and America-first, ergo, I'm happy with him as a leader. You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal, so why does a milquetoast Christian Trump bother you so much?PacifistAg said:But Trump claims to be a Christian. He is therefore held to that standard. He doesn't seem to even care about the standard that we are called to as followers of Christ. I have a bigger issue with people who use Christ as prop to win a popularity contest. It damages the witness of the church, just as it does when Christians throw their weight behind such false religiosity.Orko said:If there were a devout Christian that were capable of doing what was needed, I would support them over anybody else. If not, I'd settle for someone who is merely pro-Christian and doing good work, but not necessarily a great person themselves.PacifistAg said:garc said:Tysonb@m said:
The thing about supporting amoral people I'd they can quickly and easily turn against you since they give zero cruds about you or your faith. But hey, better than hillary! Kinda, maybe, I hope so.
So we should elect Billy Graham?
Or we could put our faith ahead of winning a popularity contest and expect someone who claims to be a Christian to produce the fruits of a Christian. In that regard, there's not a dime's difference between Trump and Hillary. They both appear to use Christianity as nothing but a prop to dupe Christians into believing they are on God's side. If they claim Christ, then they don't get to produce rotten fruit simply because they hold political office.
Then again, I think Billy Graham had too much integrity to be president, and voters have made it clear that they value winning over pesky things like integrity, character or fruits of the Spirit.
I do know people who claim to be Christian who would support an atheist as long as they were staunchly conservative over a devout Christian moderate. I can't go that far.
What is needed has nothing to do with America. God doesn't care about MAGA. What is needed, as Christians, is for the church to be a witness to the Kingdom of God in this world.
And please don't assume what I'd rather have. I don't care who runs the government. I'm a voluntaryist so I'd prefer to tear the whole thing down. I do care about people who profess Christ for no reason other than to win a popularity contest. I do care about the witness of the church being damaged by getting into bed with people like Trump or Hillary. I do care about the Savior of the world being used as a prop for man's politics. I do care about ministers goaltending for people like Trump. We don't need Christians in bed with degenerates. We need prophets speaking truth to the sins of the state and its leaders. We need Nathans and Samuels.
- You are the poster-child for not holding Christians to any kind of standard - Outside of those who share your worldview and certain other trolls, I don't think you'd get much agreement on this here. Especially considering I get criticized regularly by people for what you're saying I don't do.
- You, yourself, would rather have an atheist conservative over a Christian liberal - I'm a voluntaryist. I don't give a rat's ass who runs Rome/Babylon/America. I care about the body of Christ being a witness to Christ.
Now can you answer my questions without lying about me?