*** PRESUMED INNOCENT *** (Jake Gyllenhaal Apple TV+ Series)

26,261 Views | 278 Replies | Last: 4 days ago by TCTTS
Rudyjax
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20ag07 said:

I'm interested to see what happens coming out of this.

Twisty legal drama were ALL the rage on broadcast in the 80s/90s. (And David E Kelley, writing on this show, was a big part of that.)

This show just showed you could attach a big star to a legal series, up the level of production, and boom, you've got something again.

There is a whole John Grisham catalog just sitting out there that could be optioned and cast and churned into blockbuster miniseries tmrw.

Which was also what was happening in the 90s on the movie front- Tom Cruise, Sandra Bullock, Julia Roberts, Denzel Washington, Matt Damon all dropped into Grisham adaptations. And those were mostly considered bad, compared to the book, because it was all rushed.

These 8 episode type series, with that star power (Gyllenhaal applies here) really works.


Young stars getting a Grisham movie made it.
20ag07
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I didn't even get to Matthew McConaughey, Tommy Lee Jones, Samuel L Jackson, Susan Sarandon, Claire Danes. It was a gold mine.

TCTTS- go option The Partner, The Testament, or The Associate (which was optioned with Zac Efron and Shia LeBeouf), find a few stars, and make a bunch of money with relatively easy to write scripts for 8 episodes.
TCTTS
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Seeing as those titles are likely a bit out of our price range, the trick is getting someone else to pay the option. Not a bad idea in general, though.
MASAXET
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Rudyjax said:

20ag07 said:

Quote:

Does Hollywood think that everyone is dropping the f bomb every other word at work?
I work in an even more white collar environment than this, and Fbombs are frequent all day.
I work white collar and absolutely no fbombs.


Well I have a literal f-bomb on one of my office desks, so….
20ag07
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Didn't really like this episode.

They went to court about an episode earlier than I thought they would, which means we probably don't leave the courtroom much episodes 6-7.
TCTTS
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Yeah, this was the weakest episode by far. Not much forward progress, some boring stuff with the wife, and just weirdly paced overall. Hoping it's back to form for the homestretch.
GreasenUSA
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Yep, found myself zoning out on this episode. Also didn't really need to see the gross dream elements.

Really strong scene on the courtroom opening statement, though.
PatAg
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TCTTS said:

Yeah, this was the weakest episode by far. Not much forward progress, some boring stuff with the wife, and just weirdly paced overall. Hoping it's back to form for the homestretch.
I have begun to skim through the wife alone scenes that arent with her kids. The stuff with the therapist and with the bartender just arent interesting to me. I understand why they are doing it, and Im sure it will come into play in the courtroom somehow. Still find it boring.
Rudyjax
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PatAg said:

TCTTS said:

Yeah, this was the weakest episode by far. Not much forward progress, some boring stuff with the wife, and just weirdly paced overall. Hoping it's back to form for the homestretch.
I have begun to skim through the wife alone scenes that arent with her kids. The stuff with the therapist and with the bartender just arent interesting to me. I understand why they are doing it, and Im sure it will come into play in the courtroom somehow. Still find it boring.


Very boring.
20ag07
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OK-now I'm just hate watching this show.

Rusty is the worst "protagonist" that has ever been written in any TV show ever. Like, I really just hope they throw him in jail at this point, whether or not he even did it, bc he has zero redeeming qualities. We're supposed to be rooting for the guy who had an extensive affair with a colleague, to the point of stalkerism. Then he is sociopathically mad at his wife for making out with a bartender, while she is sitting in court every day listening to testimony about how he may or may not have killed the colleague he was having an affair with, and obsessing over.

Bonkers.

At this point, I'm just watching to see what they do with it.

You can kind of see this coming a mile away- Tommy Molto (Peter Saarsgaard) is going to become the red herring for episode 7.

I'll call it now (again)- Raymond's wife did it. She's around too much, she has too many opinions, now she's right next to Barbara right behind the bench.
PatAg
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another great episode
TCTTS
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20ag07 said:

OK-now I'm just hate watching this show.

Rusty is the worst "protagonist" that has ever been written in any TV show ever. Like, I really just hope they throw him in jail at this point, whether or not he even did it, bc he has zero redeeming qualities. We're supposed to be rooting for the guy who had an extensive affair with a colleague, to the point of stalkerism. Then he is sociopathically mad at his wife for making out with a bartender, while she is sitting in court every day listening to testimony about how he may or may not have killed the colleague he was having an affair with, and obsessing over.

Bonkers.

At this point, I'm just watching to see what they do with it.

You can kind of see this coming a mile away- Tommy Molto (Peter Saarsgaard) is going to become the red herring for episode 7.

I'll call it now (again)- Raymond's wife did it. She's around too much, she has too many opinions, now she's right next to Barbara right behind the bench.


Are you sure about that?

Because I don't think that we are.

Yes, he's become incredibly, almost irredeemably, unlikable… and that feels like the point. Because the filmmakers are clearly going out of their way to paint him as such, with the most obvious brush imaginable. I'm not saying that's because he did it (though I wouldn't be surprised at this point), rather, I'm merely suggesting that your anger seems to be stemming from a potential misinterpretation of who/what we're "supposed" to be rooting for.

Personally, all I'm rooting for is a great, soapy legal drama, and this show is delivering that in spades.

I'm with PatAg… another fantastic episode, to the point where I'm pissed all over again that I have to wait another week.
20ag07
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I'm not angry at all. I just think it's badly written TV. Very well acted. Very well produced. Just not well written.

We're 6 into 8 hours, and I'm fine if they all go to jail. Fk Rusty, fk Barbara, (their kids got fkd up bc their parents were fkd up), fk Tommy Molto.

You know who is getting the best edit right now? It's Nico Della Guardia. Which is NOT what was happening eps 1-2.



Leto Agtreides II
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I don't like any of the important characters (except for the former DA) but somehow I'm still invested. Tommy is an absolute chode but his boss is somehow even more hateable. Cannot stand the way he talks.
20ag07
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Quote:

Tommy is an absolute chode but his boss is somehow even more hateable. Cannot stand the way he talks.
Watch the edit.

He was disastrous in the first 3 episodes.

Since then he's been giving Tommy Molto a "WTF are you doing, also chill out".

Molta is going to be the EP 7 red herring. It's all been telegraphed ,
Leto Agtreides II
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I don't know what you mean by edit
TX04Aggie
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Really enjoying this series.
20ag07
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"Edit" is how a character is portrayed.

We were NOT supposed to like Della Guardia in the first 3 episodes.

They flipped him over the last 3 to be maybe the most reasonable person left on the series. That's the "edit".

We were supposed to like Rusty in the first few, but they have made him completely unredeemable. That's "edit".
Rudyjax
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Reality tv terms in drama? Not saying you're wrong, but that's a new way to use that term to me.

Typically that term is used in unscripted tv. Where you don't have control of what is going on so you make an edit to appear a certain way.

In scripted tv, it's the script and not the edit.

Leto Agtreides II
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20ag07 said:

"Edit" is how a character is portrayed.

We were NOT supposed to like Della Guardia in the first 3 episodes.

They flipped him over the last 3 to be maybe the most reasonable person left on the series. That's the "edit".

We were supposed to like Rusty in the first few, but they have made him completely unredeemable. That's "edit".
gotcha. I know the character was supposed to be unlikeable but I still really don't like the acting and voice he chose to use
rhutton125
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If I were the defense, I'd be pointing out how 1) the kid doesn't know anything, it's all conjecture, except that his mom was scared and that other people also came to her place, and 2) she filed a complaint about Tommy and no one else. So Rusty isn't even the sketchiest person in that court room.

I don't THINK that Tommy did it, but we'll see!
Rudyjax
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rhutton125 said:

If I were the defense, I'd be pointing out how 1) the kid doesn't know anything, it's all conjecture, except that his mom was scared and that other people also came to her place, and 2) she filed a complaint about Tommy and no one else. So Rusty isn't even the sketchiest person in that court room.

I don't THINK that Tommy did it, but we'll see!


Well, he probably would've except he had a heart attack and died.
rhutton125
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Just planning ahead. Next man up and whatnot.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Quote:

I don't THINK that Tommy did it, but we'll see!
Tell us you've never read the book or seen the original movie without telling us you've never read the book or seen the original movie.
GreasenUSA
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Why the thumbs down? I said nothing about how this turns out.
Rudyjax
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

Why the thumbs down? I said nothing about how this turns out.


I've seen both the movie and read the book and I have no clue how it turns out as it was like over 30 years ago. Hell, I think I read the book in high school and I graduated 34 years ago.
20ag07
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It's so off track now, it doesn't even matter.

The only reason I think Tommy Molto may have done it, is that they need an angry white man. (Again, my guess is that set him up in episode 7, then do something different in 8).

The movie or the book is not going to tell anybody much of anything at this point.
20ag07
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It's funny how a movie works vs a miniseries. The movie was quite efficient.

We've got two 45 minute episodes left to go, and there are about 8 plot points left that need to be worked in. And I'm like "there is no way they are getting all that in at this pace".

But lolol that was like the runtime of the movie.
Rudyjax
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20ag07 said:

It's so off track now, it doesn't even matter.

The only reason I think Tommy Molto may have done it, is that they need an angry white man. (Again, my guess is that set him up in episode 7, then do something different in 8).

The movie or the book is not going to tell anybody much of anything at this point.


Well he has a cat.

Single man with a cat.

Not sure how they couldn't have set that up better.

Only way is while holding the cat he drank a glass of milk.
20ag07
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Quote:

Only way is while holding the cat he drank a glass of milk.
If you remembered the movie, you'd know that this particular phrasing is quite hilarious.

The biggest thing in the movie was the "glass" that proved Rusty was at her house that night, but disappeared from evidence, so they couldn't nail him with it, and was given back to him by his friend who took it after he got off and then thrown off a boat. None of this is going to happen in the show, but you accidentally stumbled onto a funny one.
Rudyjax
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I remember really liking the book, and not liking the movie.

That's about all I remember. I do remember the outcome though but not how or why.
LMCane
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PatAg said:

TCTTS said:

Yeah, this was the weakest episode by far. Not much forward progress, some boring stuff with the wife, and just weirdly paced overall. Hoping it's back to form for the homestretch.
I have begun to skim through the wife alone scenes that arent with her kids. The stuff with the therapist and with the bartender just arent interesting to me. I understand why they are doing it, and Im sure it will come into play in the courtroom somehow. Still find it boring.
I do the exact same- anytime the wife is the focus it's apocryphal

we went from hottie Bonnie Bedelia

to this

Leto Agtreides II
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LMCane said:

PatAg said:

TCTTS said:

Yeah, this was the weakest episode by far. Not much forward progress, some boring stuff with the wife, and just weirdly paced overall. Hoping it's back to form for the homestretch.
I have begun to skim through the wife alone scenes that arent with her kids. The stuff with the therapist and with the bartender just arent interesting to me. I understand why they are doing it, and Im sure it will come into play in the courtroom somehow. Still find it boring.
I do the exact same- anytime the wife is the focus it's apocryphal

we went from hottie Bonnie Bedelia

to this


Yeah the wife is certainly not a looker
Rudyjax
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Leto Agtreides II said:

20ag07 said:

"Edit" is how a character is portrayed.

We were NOT supposed to like Della Guardia in the first 3 episodes.

They flipped him over the last 3 to be maybe the most reasonable person left on the series. That's the "edit".

We were supposed to like Rusty in the first few, but they have made him completely unredeemable. That's "edit".
gotcha. I know the character was supposed to be unlikeable but I still really don't like the acting and voice he chose to use
I think it's great acting. The actor sounds nothing like that in life. He's changed his entire demeanor as well.

You may not like his choice, but it makes him unlikeable, which is the point.
 
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