*** PRESUMED INNOCENT *** (Jake Gyllenhaal Apple TV+ Series)

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G.I.Bro
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9:20p, 7/25/24
Did anyone think Delay sounded like someone with a lisp trying to do a brando impression?

Tommy watching football in a tucked in Oxford while drinking a craft beer sitting at his kitchen island is so on brand for him
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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In reply to G.I.Bro • 7:12a, 7/26/24
AG
G.I.Bro said:
Did anyone think Delay sounded like someone with a lisp trying to do a brando impression?

Tommy watching football in a tucked in Oxford while drinking a craft beer sitting at his kitchen island is so on brand for him
Yeah, I thought the actor playing Delay sounded awful.
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Mikeyshooter
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In reply to Cinco Ranch Aggie • 8:21a, 7/28/24
AG
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
The show was barely passable, but it did inspire the wife and I to watch the movie. We are literally watching the movie now just a few minutes after wrapping up the show. Wife has never seen the movie, but what the movie is showing to me is its vast superiority.

I think overall the movie was much better but in rewatching it also made me realize some of the great things the show did.

Movie did better:
-Rusty's wife: hotter and more believable. Her plan was diabolical which made more sense for her to stay around.
-Carolyn- smoke show. Honestly the TV version of her character wasn't hot enough for him to become that obsessed. The story also works better with Carolyn sleeping her way to the top and moving on from Rusty when she realized he wasn't ambitious enough.
-no annoying kids. They had a young kid but he wasn't part of the story.
-overall plot and ending obviously.

Show did better:
-both Molto and Della Guardia much more interesting. The movie characters were a couple of lightweights.
-Cinematography- movie cut corners and made it look cheap at times.

-Courtroom scenes were more interesting.



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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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In reply to Mikeyshooter • 9:58a, 7/28/24
AG
I can agree with this, but both iterations of the Molto/Delay Guardia characters I found to be annoying, in different ways.

In the movie version, Molto came across as a weasel, whereas in the series, my initial thoughts on the actor was that simply couldn't act - his voice was strikingly bad. But the series version of those characters was better despite the voice and that tie Delay wore being way out of place for a Chicago man.
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20ag07
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In reply to Cinco Ranch Aggie • 10:34a, 7/28/24
I think you have your characters mixed up.

-Molto was well acted by Saarsgaard( just poorly written, especially with the stupid cat and the STUPID bolo tie).

-Della Guardia was poorly acted, but was at least written to be the only reasonable one by the end.

Other things I thought the movie did better:
-The crooked judge twist stopping the case before it even goes to defense.
-Raymond not being the defense attorney. The defense attorney winds up being the star of the show in the movie.

Which is why I think S2 is Gyllenhaal back as a defense attorney.
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PatAg
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In reply to GreasenUSA • 11:17a, 7/28/24
AG
GreasenUSA said:
We had multiple spoilers posted on page 3 of this thread from the book without spoiler tags.

I need to learn to stay out discussion threads on movies and shows where a prior iteration already exists.

The book readers simply always need you to know that they have read the book... over and over again. Cannot help themselves.
Unfortunately this is true. Or worse, they pretend to "figure it out" with "guesses" that end up being exactly what happens because they already know
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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In reply to 20ag07 • 12:07p, 7/28/24
AG
That's certainly possible given how little close attention I actually paid to this while watching.
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Rudyjax
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12:27p, 7/28/24
AG
Quote:
Della Guardia was poorly acted, but was at least written to be the only reasonable one by the end.


It may have been a poor choice by the actor, but if you've seen the actor in real life his voice and mannerisms are completely different.
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DannyDuberstein
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12:41p, 7/28/24
AG
I thought the Della Gaurdia acting was very good; however, it didn't fit Chicago. New Orleans or west coast, sure. Chicago, not so much.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 12:58p, 7/28/24
AG
DannyDuberstein said:
I thought the Della Gaurdia acting was very good; however, it didn't fit Chicago. New Orleans or west coast, sure. Chicago, not so much.


And we're talking about the character/actor whereas normally we wouldn't.
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20ag07
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1:03p, 7/28/24
Quote:
And we're talking about the character/actor whereas normally we wouldn't.
None of which we'd be doing if the writing wasn't such a disaster.
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PatAg
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3:06p, 7/28/24
AG
I dont think any role was poorly acted..
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LMCane
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In reply to Rudyjax • 10:58a, 7/29/24
Rudyjax said:
20ag07 said:
Quote:
I remember rooting for the protagonist is the original book and movie.

Why did they make him so unlikeable?
Also, this is a spoiler, and you do not even bother using spoiler tags, so you should be condemned to hell like I was.


Definitely not a spoiler.
I do agree to a point

Jake did a decent job

but should have transformed his body to look like an ACTUAL District Attorney / Prosecutor rather than a 43 year old jacked Hollywood model

his wife and kids I was hoping would get tossed into the Great Lakes.
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LMCane
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In reply to 20ag07 • 11:01a, 7/29/24
20ag07 said:
I think you have your characters mixed up.

-Molto was well acted by Saarsgaard( just poorly written, especially with the stupid cat and the STUPID bolo tie).

-Della Guardia was poorly acted, but was at least written to be the only reasonable one by the end.

Other things I thought the movie did better:
-The crooked judge twist stopping the case before it even goes to defense.
-Raymond not being the defense attorney. The defense attorney winds up being the star of the show in the movie.

Which is why I think S2 is Gyllenhaal back as a defense attorney.

I actually kind of liked DeLaGuardia

it was an interesting character rendering.

at least it wasn't the stereotypical Hollywood version of how REAL HUMANS act

(see the black female judge for every caricature of Hollywood)
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concac
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In reply to LMCane • 11:09a, 7/29/24
AG
LMCane said:
20ag07 said:
I think you have your characters mixed up.

-Molto was well acted by Saarsgaard( just poorly written, especially with the stupid cat and the STUPID bolo tie).

-Della Guardia was poorly acted, but was at least written to be the only reasonable one by the end.

Other things I thought the movie did better:
-The crooked judge twist stopping the case before it even goes to defense.
-Raymond not being the defense attorney. The defense attorney winds up being the star of the show in the movie.

Which is why I think S2 is Gyllenhaal back as a defense attorney.

I actually kind of liked DeLaGuardia

it was an interesting character rendering.

at least it wasn't the stereotypical Hollywood version of how REAL HUMANS act

(see the black female judge for every caricature of Hollywood)
Have you ever seen an actual trial? It's boring as hell.

I don't know why you keep on insisting on fictional movies/TV shows to be as realistic as possible. They're suppose to be make-believe.
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20ag07
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In reply to concac • 11:43a, 7/29/24
There's a line between "that was soapy and entertaining" and "100 things that would never happen happened".

The line is somewhere short of 100.
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rhutton125
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In reply to LMCane • 12:12p, 7/29/24
AG
I bet they filmed this while he was getting ready to film Road House.
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LMCane
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In reply to rhutton125 • 12:45p, 7/29/24
rhutton125 said:
I bet they filmed this while he was getting ready to film Road House.

I am sure you are correct

it would have been more believable if he had a dad bod instead of showing off his ripped abs.

because so many attorneys in their mid 40s have ripped abs.
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LMCane
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In reply to concac • 12:46p, 7/29/24
concac said:
LMCane said:
20ag07 said:
I think you have your characters mixed up.

-Molto was well acted by Saarsgaard( just poorly written, especially with the stupid cat and the STUPID bolo tie).

-Della Guardia was poorly acted, but was at least written to be the only reasonable one by the end.

Other things I thought the movie did better:
-The crooked judge twist stopping the case before it even goes to defense.
-Raymond not being the defense attorney. The defense attorney winds up being the star of the show in the movie.

Which is why I think S2 is Gyllenhaal back as a defense attorney.

I actually kind of liked DeLaGuardia

it was an interesting character rendering.

at least it wasn't the stereotypical Hollywood version of how REAL HUMANS act

(see the black female judge for every caricature of Hollywood)
Have you ever seen an actual trial? It's boring as hell.

I don't know why you keep on insisting on fictional movies/TV shows to be as realistic as possible. They're suppose to be make-believe.

LOL yes I have actually seen what a real trial looks like -

I passed the Maryland bar as an attorney 26 years ago.

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Rudyjax
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In reply to LMCane • 12:54p, 7/29/24
AG
LMCane said:
concac said:
LMCane said:
20ag07 said:
I think you have your characters mixed up.

-Molto was well acted by Saarsgaard( just poorly written, especially with the stupid cat and the STUPID bolo tie).

-Della Guardia was poorly acted, but was at least written to be the only reasonable one by the end.

Other things I thought the movie did better:
-The crooked judge twist stopping the case before it even goes to defense.
-Raymond not being the defense attorney. The defense attorney winds up being the star of the show in the movie.

Which is why I think S2 is Gyllenhaal back as a defense attorney.

I actually kind of liked DeLaGuardia

it was an interesting character rendering.

at least it wasn't the stereotypical Hollywood version of how REAL HUMANS act

(see the black female judge for every caricature of Hollywood)
Have you ever seen an actual trial? It's boring as hell.

I don't know why you keep on insisting on fictional movies/TV shows to be as realistic as possible. They're suppose to be make-believe.

LOL yes I have actually seen what a real trial looks like -

I passed the Maryland bar as an attorney 26 years ago.

Maryland?
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gigemJTH12
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1:15p, 7/29/24
AG
I liked it. and I have defended the writing.

the daughter being the killer right at the end was rushed for sure and I didnt buy it.

I wish there was some sort of nugget thrown in there about why she was able to do all that without leaving any evidence. premetitated would have been more believable. but her doing it in two seconds...theres no way she doesnt leave evidence.

also him coming up with the tying her up idea in that split second is a little too much.

overall I loved the series.
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LMCane
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In reply to Rudyjax • 1:28p, 7/29/24
Rudyjax said:
30+ years in corporate work and I'v heard it very infrequently except for my boss from Boston early in my career.


27 years in corporate work and the USG and never once heard an FBomb

Lockheed Martin
Raytheon
Booz Allen Hamilton
Department of Commerce
Department of State
United Technologies

the only time I ever heard any cursing was during my time at the Pentagon in the Air Force Reserve

and this is not even HEARING it, much less someone throwing it angrily in the face OF THEIR NEW BOSS.
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20ag07
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In reply to gigemJTH12 • 1:32p, 7/29/24
Quote:
the daughter being the killer right at the end was rushed for sure and I didnt buy it.

I wish there was some sort of nugget thrown in there about why she was able to do all that without leaving any evidence. premetitated would have been more believable. but her doing it in two seconds...theres no way she doesnt leave evidence.

also him coming up with the tying her up idea in that split second is a little too much.
That's why the movie worked.

The wife pre-meditated it, including having the wherewithal to bring his finger printed glass to frame him.

In this show, with all the extra hours they had, I'm not buying all of the freakouts and ability to cover your tracks THAT quickly.
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Mikeyshooter
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In reply to 20ag07 • 1:01p, 7/30/24
AG
And the movie worked better due to the lack of technology.

Show basically had to ignore cell phone pings, GPS, cameras, etc that would typically be used to locate people.


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20ag07
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In reply to LMCane • 11:32a, 7/31/24
Quote:
27 years in corporate work and the USG and never once heard an FBomb
Since we're still doing this, I literally just got off an initial call with a recruiter at the top recruiting agency, working on a Fortune 100 role.

She dropped 3 fbombs. On an initial call.

People are more casual these days than what ya'll have seen in the past.
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PatAg
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In reply to LMCane • 12:50a, 8/1/24
AG
LMCane said:
Rudyjax said:
30+ years in corporate work and I'v heard it very infrequently except for my boss from Boston early in my career.


27 years in corporate work and the USG and never once heard an FBomb

Lockheed Martin
Raytheon
Booz Allen Hamilton
Department of Commerce
Department of State
United Technologies

the only time I ever heard any cursing was during my time at the Pentagon in the Air Force Reserve

and this is not even HEARING it, much less someone throwing it angrily in the face OF THEIR NEW BOSS.
you are watching movies the wrong way. It's not a documentary
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LCE
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In reply to PatAg • 6:56a, 8/1/24
AG
Thinks it's real life
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Txmoe
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9:10a, 8/2/24
AG
Sounds like I'm in the minority here. I didn't mind who the killer was. That's pretty much par for the course for most whodunnits. It can be one of a half-dozen characters and whoever it turns out to be, you're left a little disappointed. It's just so hard to pull off well.

The more egregious problem with the series was all the other facts we learn in the last 10 minutes:
  • Rusty went back to the victim's house the night of the murder.
  • Seeing the victim, Rusty immediately suspected his wife.
  • Rusty tied up the victim to alter the crime scene and throw off the investigation.
  • Rusty turns out to have done all the things Molto accused him of, which is why Rusty was the initial suspect.

I would argue that the series would have been much more effective if we had seen all of the above bullet points in real time. It would explain how Rusty became more unhinged as the series went on. He was trapped in a nightmare for which he believed he was responsible.

Still, the juice was worth the squeeze for me. Some really great performances by the judge and Horgan. And does anyone play a better sleazeball than Peter Sarsgaard?
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GreasenUSA
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In reply to Txmoe • 9:25a, 8/2/24
AG
I'm more in line with you.

The overall ride was fun. The ending wasn't good, but it didn't ruin the show for me.
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rynning
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8:05p, 8/6/24
AG
Just finished it last night and enjoyed it for the most part. I liked what they tried to do with the surprise ending, but I wish they had dropped at least a couple hints along the way. I suppose the emphasis on "mental disassociation" was a clue looking back.

And pretty sure Rusty's son was also in on the family secret. He was there that night, after all, and saw the real killer go in.
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Diggity
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In reply to rynning • 8:48p, 8/6/24
AG
Seems like everyone was there that night.
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20ag07
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In reply to Diggity • 8:50p, 8/6/24
Grand Central Station
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20ag07
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8:18p, 8/12/24
USA Network is chasing this.

https://deadline.com/2024/08/the-rainmaker-series-john-slattery-1236038138/

They're spending upwards of $3M/episode for Grisham's The Rainmaker (great book, terrible movie).

Of all the Grisham stuff they could have bought, it's not the one I would have. (Even Frances Ford Coppola, Matt Damon, and Claire Danes couldn't do it justice).

But the genre remains undefeated. And works, even if it's bad, in this format.
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TCTTS
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2:21p, 10/29/24
AG

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