Hearing bad things about this movie from several people. Guess I'll wait for it to hit Prime or Netflix
***Napoleon*** (Ridley Scott, Joaquin Phoenix)
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Last: 4 mo ago by G Martin 87
Why try to top perfection?
Mainstream Hollywood (in film/movies, and maybe soon live action TV, based on the decreasing quality of writing/staging) is in a rough spot rn. That being said, this movie should have had much lower expectations. Ridley Scott doesn't have the energy anymore for something that needs to be grand/large-scale. Unfortunately, it's clear the same is true for Scorsese. They (and we) are going to lose something significant when Tarantino retires.
I enjoyed it.
Really the main issue with this movie is some odd pacing. At times it feels like it's skipping over pretty massive events or giant spans of time, with very little connective tissue between scenes other than a quick voiceover. And, it feels like some key stuff just gets glossed over or skipped completely. (What happened to his son? Etc.)
To me that's the only thing that's keeping this from being great. For my money, the Battle of Austerlitz alone was worth the price of admission.
I can already tell the 4 hour cut is going to fix a ton of issues with it; it's too bad I won't get to see it since I don't have apple tv.
Still, I didn't really feel the length, and was pretty entertained throughout. I give it a strong 7.5.
Really the main issue with this movie is some odd pacing. At times it feels like it's skipping over pretty massive events or giant spans of time, with very little connective tissue between scenes other than a quick voiceover. And, it feels like some key stuff just gets glossed over or skipped completely. (What happened to his son? Etc.)
To me that's the only thing that's keeping this from being great. For my money, the Battle of Austerlitz alone was worth the price of admission.
I can already tell the 4 hour cut is going to fix a ton of issues with it; it's too bad I won't get to see it since I don't have apple tv.
Still, I didn't really feel the length, and was pretty entertained throughout. I give it a strong 7.5.
I actually fell asleep during part of it. I don't remember the last time I did that. Way too much of a focus on his relationship. That was easily 60% of the film.
Can't be worse than Flower Moon.
Took in a late showing earlier. After reading some reviews here and elsewhere my expectations were tempered but I came out having enjoyed the movie.
I enjoyed the movie for what its makers were going for. I'd have personally enjoyed it more had it been in French/German/Russian and with actors of those nationalities playing those parts. I'd have preferred a slightly younger French actor playing Napoleon, and like many, I'd have preferred a bit more of his command and a bit less of his awkward relationships.
That being said, the battle scenes that it did depict were amazing. The uniforms and other wardrobes were top-notch and Oscar-worthy. I really enjoyed the score and felt it added to many scenes. Even though there was too much of it, the palace/court intrigue was well-executed and added to the plot.
I wish the movie had been able to better convey why/how Napoleon came to be so absolutely admired and adored by his men. The Napoleon of this film had little charisma or force of personality, which runs counter to how I've seen him described by period accounts. Still, solid movie and definitely worth seeing on the big screen and with big speakers.
7.5/10
I enjoyed the movie for what its makers were going for. I'd have personally enjoyed it more had it been in French/German/Russian and with actors of those nationalities playing those parts. I'd have preferred a slightly younger French actor playing Napoleon, and like many, I'd have preferred a bit more of his command and a bit less of his awkward relationships.
That being said, the battle scenes that it did depict were amazing. The uniforms and other wardrobes were top-notch and Oscar-worthy. I really enjoyed the score and felt it added to many scenes. Even though there was too much of it, the palace/court intrigue was well-executed and added to the plot.
I wish the movie had been able to better convey why/how Napoleon came to be so absolutely admired and adored by his men. The Napoleon of this film had little charisma or force of personality, which runs counter to how I've seen him described by period accounts. Still, solid movie and definitely worth seeing on the big screen and with big speakers.
7.5/10
Good review. Planning to go see it. Should have already bought tickets.
I'll echo the "it's fine" to "enjoyable" sentiments. It's not as remotely bad or as "comical" (???) as a number of people are saying, it looks absolutely incredible, and the acting is of course top notch.
The one way in which I'll swerve is to say that I actually wanted more of Napoleon as a commander AND more of the Napoleon/Josephine relationship.
Because it absolutely felt like a huge chunk of the courtship and the relationship itself was skipped over, to the point where I didn't completely buy his obsession with her as a muse of sorts who motivated his every decision. In fact, I could have used a deeper dive into his psyche in general, and it sounds like that's what the imminent Apple TV+ four-hour cut delivers; more Josephine, more private moments with Napoleon, and then hopefully more battlefield/strategist stuff as well.
As is, it's a competent movie for sure, if not a relatively boring one at times (it's definitely hindered by its dry, straightforward, historical-timeline-of-events narrative), but there's enough promise there that I think the four-hour cut could be pretty great, and potentially a significant improvement on an already decent film.
The one way in which I'll swerve is to say that I actually wanted more of Napoleon as a commander AND more of the Napoleon/Josephine relationship.
Because it absolutely felt like a huge chunk of the courtship and the relationship itself was skipped over, to the point where I didn't completely buy his obsession with her as a muse of sorts who motivated his every decision. In fact, I could have used a deeper dive into his psyche in general, and it sounds like that's what the imminent Apple TV+ four-hour cut delivers; more Josephine, more private moments with Napoleon, and then hopefully more battlefield/strategist stuff as well.
As is, it's a competent movie for sure, if not a relatively boring one at times (it's definitely hindered by its dry, straightforward, historical-timeline-of-events narrative), but there's enough promise there that I think the four-hour cut could be pretty great, and potentially a significant improvement on an already decent film.
I should also probably add that my dad really liked it, and my mom thought it was okay. Both said they were expecting a lot worse after I mentioned that there were an increasing number of negative reviews out there. More than anything, though, they enjoyed using the movie to remind me for the umpteenth time that we're related to Josephine in some way, on my dad's side.
Dude you saw this with your parents? I would have died.
I wonder how much Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure has shaped the average American's idea of who Napoleon was.
Napoleon wasn't French at all and didn't speak with a French accent; when he realized that Corsican independence was a lost cause he changed the Italian spelling of his name to appear and sound more French. He also wasn't short when compared to his contemporaries.
It's very much true that Joaquin Phoenix isn't the right age to play him, but he might be the best American actor working today.
Napoleon wasn't French at all and didn't speak with a French accent; when he realized that Corsican independence was a lost cause he changed the Italian spelling of his name to appear and sound more French. He also wasn't short when compared to his contemporaries.
It's very much true that Joaquin Phoenix isn't the right age to play him, but he might be the best American actor working today.
In one of Napoleon's letters to Josephine he asks her not to wash between her legs because he wants to enjoy her smell he sees her again.Cliff.Booth said:
Dude you saw this with your parents? I would have died.
Did they touch on that in the movie?
I'm pretty sure that's British propaganda that isn't in one of his letters, but yeah some of his letters were explicit and YES there are numerous scenes that I wouldn't want to see in the same room as my parents.
He's a great actor, but to me his Napoleon was too strange. JP's range is restricted to a spectrum from insane to pretty weird, which he does well, but nothing I've ever read about Napoleon would have had JP in my top 10 wishlist of people to play him. Just my opinion.
Could be propaganda because I believe where I read it was a book or article by Brit historian Tom Holland.Cliff.Booth said:
I'm pretty sure that's British propaganda that isn't in one of his letters, but yeah some of his letters were explicitly and YES there are numerous scenes that I wouldn't want to see in the same room as my parents.
I feel like I've read that some specific rumored letters were fabricated, like that one, but either way...Scott didn't hold back on that aspect of their romantic life.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing this tomorrow in Imax.
Cliff.Booth said:
Dude you saw this with your parents? I would have died.
My parents are actually pretty chill/not-at-all-prude when it comes to that stuff. I've seen much worse with them (though obviously not on purpose). The second the first sex scene came up my mom just goes "Good gosh" and I started laughing.
I had an older couple a few seats away and that was basically the woman's exact reaction.
Oh yeah, what was up with that scene with the mummy? I feel like something went over my head there.
For some reason I figured the sexual content would be more implied / cut away at the right moment and not full on awkward imperial shagging, but yeah. Picturing the entire TC clan sitting there together is awesome.
Speaking of this ****, the morons beside me last night brought a probably 9 year old sibling with them. They made every attempt to shield her eyes during all of the 30 scenes someone her age has no business seeing, but that ONE that cuts abruptly they had no chance to spare her from. She's gonna have a lifelong memory of being dragged to that when she probably wanted to see Wish. Poor kid.
Spider-Man has a book about Napoleon?Belton Ag said:Could be propaganda because I believe where I read it was a book or article by Brit historian Tom Holland.Cliff.Booth said:
I'm pretty sure that's British propaganda that isn't in one of his letters, but yeah some of his letters were explicitly and YES there are numerous scenes that I wouldn't want to see in the same room as my parents.
sounds awesome
Craptastic movie. Dude was one of the greatest military strategists in history and that's what they come up with? He came off as a shallow wimp. The acting was tepid and bland.
I really enjoyed this, much more than I thought I would after seeing RT in the 60s.
Wardrobe team did an outstanding job, and the set pieces were great.
I didn't know a whole lot about Napoleon. I had thought he was ruthless, but that wasn't really how he was portrayed. I was surprised by that aspect
Edit to add I saw this in Screen X. That was the worst implementation of the tech I've seen. The right screen was moving at about 3 frames per second. Left was blurry. Never had that issue wit Screen X before
Wardrobe team did an outstanding job, and the set pieces were great.
I didn't know a whole lot about Napoleon. I had thought he was ruthless, but that wasn't really how he was portrayed. I was surprised by that aspect
Edit to add I saw this in Screen X. That was the worst implementation of the tech I've seen. The right screen was moving at about 3 frames per second. Left was blurry. Never had that issue wit Screen X before
Saw it last night with 3 of my boys. We all agree except for a few battle scenes (which were not explained how Napoleon got there), it sucked. Save your money and wait.chick79 said:
Hearing bad things about this movie from several people. Guess I'll wait for it to hit Prime or Netflix
Just got back. Really really really disappointed. I went on a huge Napoleon binge after hearing about this film.
Bought my first imax tickets in years and avoided this page and all reviews/spoilers. Legit thought I was walking into the Black Sabbath trailer rated R version of Napoleon, not the Joker/ sad beta male version.
Can't believe the movie's only action scene before Napoleon crowns himself Emporer is the siege of Toulon. Like, here's a really well done battle scene, now let's cut to 2 hours of drama between him and his feelings.
Waste. Of. Time.
Bought my first imax tickets in years and avoided this page and all reviews/spoilers. Legit thought I was walking into the Black Sabbath trailer rated R version of Napoleon, not the Joker/ sad beta male version.
Can't believe the movie's only action scene before Napoleon crowns himself Emporer is the siege of Toulon. Like, here's a really well done battle scene, now let's cut to 2 hours of drama between him and his feelings.
Waste. Of. Time.
Enjoyed the movie with my teenage sons today. We were impressed with the classic Ridley Scott battle scenes and laughing throughout the palace scenes as I'm recalling the Death of Stalin/Ianucci/The Favourite similarities referenced earlier.
Also I love hearing TCTTS still watching movies with his parents with no filter. With his lifetime love of all things cinema I would picture them more as the types that would expose him to everything when he was young like the squid and the whale dad taking his kids to Blue Velvet. I know that's how it was with me as my brothers and we are laughing this weekend about our parents giving us full hbo and 3 random recorded movies per vhs tape in the 80s.
Also I love hearing TCTTS still watching movies with his parents with no filter. With his lifetime love of all things cinema I would picture them more as the types that would expose him to everything when he was young like the squid and the whale dad taking his kids to Blue Velvet. I know that's how it was with me as my brothers and we are laughing this weekend about our parents giving us full hbo and 3 random recorded movies per vhs tape in the 80s.
InternetFan02 said:
Enjoyed the movie with my teenage sons today. We were impressed with the classic Ridley Scott battle scenes and laughing throughout the palace scenes as I'm recalling the Death of Stalin/Ianucci/The Favourite similarities referenced earlier.
Also I love hearing TCTTS still watching movies with his parents with no filter. With his lifetime love of all things cinema I would picture them more as the types that would expose him to everything when he was young like the squid and the whale dad taking his kids to Blue Velvet. I know that's how it was with me as my brothers and we are laughing this weekend about our parents giving us full hbo and 3 random recorded movies per vhs tape in the 80s.
Ha, I'm afraid they have absolutely no idea what The Squid and the Wale and Blue Velvet are. Sadly, they are not at all cinephiles. In fact, my dad proudly wore a "Let's Go Brandon" t-shirt to the movie, which tells you just about everything you need to know. That said, they'll see basically anything, and when I was in elementary school my dad was the type who would often pick me up from church youth group on a Sunday afternoon and we'd go straight to an R-rated movie like Terminator 2 or Demolition Man. He loves a good blockbuster to this day, has dragged my mom to all four John Wick movies, which he thinks are "masterpieces," and claims Old Yeller, Knocked Up, and The Hangover as three of his all-time favorite movies.
The one thing you and I do share, though, was access to full HBO in the '80s - along with Cinemax and Showtime - in my room, from age six. To this day I don't know how/why my parents let that happen, but it did, and I definitely credit that access as having a huge part in shaping my love of movies from such an early age.
That's awesome and also describes my conservative dad taking us to see stuff like Passenger 57 at the dollar theater on a Saturday afternoon and not realizing we were watching HBO/Cinemax all the time. Mom loved the 80s drama films and we're laughing about navigating rewind/fast forward on a VHS tape with a combo like Back to the Future/Terms of Endearment/The Dirt Bike Kid
The problem with "cinemphiles" is they lose their objectivity when it comes to certain directors or actors.
When X says Y can't do wrong, just throw their "expert" opinion out.
Have to be objective and not suffer from Hollywood cancer.
When X says Y can't do wrong, just throw their "expert" opinion out.
Have to be objective and not suffer from Hollywood cancer.
like anyone that thought The Irishman was good, or had good performances from the top 3 actors in it.AlaskanAg99 said:
The problem with "cinemphiles" is they lose their objectivity when it comes to certain directors or actors.
When X says Y can't do wrong, just throw their "expert" opinion out.
Have to be objective and not suffer from Hollywood cancer.
This is a bummer. I was going to see it. But after the huge Flower Moon flop, I'll now pass
I figured TC had ultra conservative, Christian parents for some reason.
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