*** UAP THREAD ***

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Aztec1948
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ontological shock



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English[edit]
Noun[edit]
ontological shock (countable and uncountable, plural ontological shocks)
[ol]
  • (philosophy) The state of being forced to question one's worldview.
  • [/ol]
    "I have been told that we have recovered technology that did not originate on this".-Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence-Chris Mellon

    “Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe that unknown flying objects are nonsense.” Former CIA Director, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, public statement, 1960.
    G Martin 87
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    AG
    TCTTS said:

    I've seen one biologist, who goes through a few of this guy's claims, and points out where and why he gets a number of technical issues wrong. To the point where this biologist is convinced the guy is a fake.

    But then I've seen multiple other experts who say he's absolutely the real deal, has at least worked in *a* lab, knows his stuff forwards and backwards, etc. And their reasoning for this guy getting a few things wrong is that if he were an expert in field [X] he wouldn't necessary be an expert in field [Y], hence the errors, etc.

    So I don't know who to believe, and we'll probably never know. It's still beyond interesting, though.
    Having worked with doctors and nurses in many different specialties during a long career in clinical data management and health IT, I tend to give the "experts in one field aren't necessarily experts in related fields" explanation a lot of weight.
    Aztec1948
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    G Martin 87 said:

    TCTTS said:

    I've seen one biologist, who goes through a few of this guy's claims, and points out where and why he gets a number of technical issues wrong. To the point where this biologist is convinced the guy is a fake.

    But then I've seen multiple other experts who say he's absolutely the real deal, has at least worked in *a* lab, knows his stuff forwards and backwards, etc. And their reasoning for this guy getting a few things wrong is that if he were an expert in field [X] he wouldn't necessary be an expert in field [Y], hence the errors, etc.

    So I don't know who to believe, and we'll probably never know. It's still beyond interesting, though.
    Having worked with doctors and nurses in many different specialties during a long career in clinical data management and health IT, I tend to give the "experts in one field aren't necessarily experts in related fields" explanation a lot of weight.
    Perhaps. I do think many are grasping at anything that might discount what he presents. BTW..I've heard just the opposite concerning this guy. Time may tell I suppose. It does dovetail with the other black projects involving recovered et craft and our back engineering attempts. You can bet we have done extensive examinations on the occupants...
    "I have been told that we have recovered technology that did not originate on this".-Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence-Chris Mellon

    “Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe that unknown flying objects are nonsense.” Former CIA Director, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, public statement, 1960.
    Agristotle
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    AG
    Rubio recently:
    "If the allegations are true, there's a group of people who believe that they possess something that they don't need to share with anybody, including elected officials, whom they view as temporary employees of the government." Rubio likened such a dynamic to "an internal military complex that's their own government and is accountable to no one" which, ultimately, "would be a huge problem, if it's even partially true."

    If this is indeed the case, how could you bring such a group to heel, drag them into the light?
    TCTTS
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    AG
    Agristotle said:

    Rubio recently:
    "If the allegations are true, there's a group of people who believe that they possess something that they don't need to share with anybody, including elected officials, whom they view as temporary employees of the government." Rubio likened such a dynamic to "an internal military complex that's their own government and is accountable to no one" which, ultimately, "would be a huge problem, if it's even partially true."

    If this is indeed the case, how could you bring such a group to heel, drag them into the light?

    Rubio, Gillibrand, and the Senate Intelligence Committee are taking action on this as we speak...

    Quote:

    Buried in the Senate's approved text of the Intelligence Authorization Act (IAA) for fiscal 2024 are inclusions that would direct deeper transparency regarding government encounters with unidentified anomalous phenomena and any associated attempts made to date to inspect or reverse engineer recovered, unexplainable craft or materials.

    The proposed legislative language included in the annual authorization bill comes just after reports from a former Pentagon official-turned-whistleblower emerged, alleging that the U.S. had or has what could be spacecraft of non-human origin in its UAP research arsenal. So far, lawmakers have not responded to those claims, which also have not been proven with official records or evidence to date.

    But in the latest version of the IAA introduced in the Senate last week, lawmakers incorporated a mandate for any person currently or formerly under contract with the federal government that "has in their possession material or information provided by or derived from the" government relating to UAP - "that formerly or currently is protected by any form of special access or restricted access" to notify Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, director of the Pentagon's new All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), within 60 days of the bill's enactment.

    No later than 180 days after the IAA's passage, the officials would also need to make "all such material and information" and "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic [UAP] material" available to AARO for "assessment, analysis, and inspection."

    Restricted and special access programs involve sensitive information at classified or higher security levels.

    Further, the text of Sec. 1104 of this version of the IAA states that "no amount authorized to be appropriated or appropriated by this act or any other act may be obligated or expended, directly or indirectly, in part or in whole, for, on, in relation to, or in support of activities involving [UAP] protected under any form of special access or restricted access limitations" that have not been "formally, officially, explicitly, and specifically described, explained, and justified" to the AARO director, and congressional leadership.

    The legislation notes that it applies to "any activities relating to the following":

    - Recruiting, employing, training, equipping, and operations of, and providing security for, government or contractor personnel with a primary, secondary, or contingency mission of capturing, recovering, and securing unidentified anomalous phenomena craft or pieces and components of such craft.

    - Analyzing such craft or pieces or components thereof, including for the purpose of determining properties, material composition, method of manufacture, origin, characteristics, usage and application, performance, operational modalities, or reverse engineering of such craft or component technology.

    - Managing and providing security for protecting activities and information relating to unidentified anomalous phenomena from disclosure or compromise.

    - Actions relating to reverse engineering or replicating unidentified anomalous phenomena technology or performance based on analysis of materials or sensor and observational information associated with unidentified anomalous phenomena.

    - The development of propulsion technology, or aerospace craft that uses propulsion technology, systems, or subsystems, that is based on or derived from or inspired by inspection, analysis, or reverse engineering of recovered unidentified anomalous phenomena craft or materials.

    - Any aerospace craft that uses propulsion technology other than chemical propellants, solar power, or electric ion thrust.

    In recent years, intelligence and defense authorization bills have been used as mechanisms to pass UAP-related legislation. According to an executive summary released last week, the Senate's National Defense Authorization Act of fiscal 2024 requests additional funding for AARO.

    TCTTS
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    AG
    Basically, because of David Grusch's testimony, along with the testimony of others like him (some with first-hand knowledge of these programs) who have come forward under oath that we don't yet know about, the Senate Intelligence Committee is making it LAW that defense contractors (Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, etc) MUST reveal their UAP tech and UAP programs to AARO within 180 days (six months) of the IAA being signed, which happens at the end of December. That would make July 1, 2024 the deadline.

    Now, will this have any effect, seeing as these defense contractors have been ignoring laws for decades now? Who knows. The difference here is, when all of this is inevitably brought out into the light, if after July 1, 2024, be it officially or via leaks, if these contractors haven't come forward before July 1, 2024, they will prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Right now, they're basically being given a grace period to come clean.

    Just think about how crazy this is for a second, and what we're living through.

    The Senate Intelligence Committee has seen such compelling evidence - if not proof - that certain defense contractors are in possession of UAP craft and materials, that they've placed language in the latest Intelligence Authorization Act - that the president himself signs - using phrases like "… capturing, recovering, and securing unidentified anomalous phenomena craft or pieces and components of such craft" and "reverse engineering of recovered unidentified anomalous phenomena craft or materials."

    That's just insane to me, and shows beyond a shadow of a doubt how serious all of this is becoming.
    G Martin 87
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    AG
    Agreed. I understand that people want definitive proof of UFOs before they'll start taking any of this stuff seriously. We can quibble about the details that will ultimately come out someday. What isn't really in doubt anymore is that there's enough truth behind all the hysteria of the past 90 years for members of Congress to be convinced this is real and action must be taken. Our government is very publicly taking this seriously now. That's an amazing, incredible development in its own right.
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    AG
    If I had to make a UAP/UFO elevator pitch, these are the two videos I would choose to present. I know these have been shared, but I think they're worth repeated viewings.

    Of course you can always question video evidence, especially with today's technology. If they've been debunked, please share where I can read about it.

    I still find myself unsure about where I stand regarding UAPs/UFOs.

    Navy Gimbal:


    Aguadilla, Puerto Rico:
    TCTTS
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    howitzercannon said:

    The absolute best evidence that anyone can find or produce is blurry pictures. Do you know why? Because as soon as we get clearer pictures, we know what it is and isn't a story. So we never keep track of all the times a blurry picture we thought was an alien space craft but once clarity hit it wasn't worth keeping record of.


    When there are phones and cameras and satellites covering the entire globe with competing governments that don't like each other, and none of them are saying one thing or another for UFOs….come on.

    We get the random 1 time shot of meteors hitting on dash cams in russia, police body cams capturing cool aerial phenomena. And we can't get a single clean pic of a UAP? Is it because once identified 10 out of 10 times we know what it is?

    So we all sit around and go, "hey! What's that? I don't know, must be aliens." And move one with our day without any further thoughts it seems.

    Eh, you're conveniently limiting evidence to only photos and videos, when circumstantial evidence is admissible in court. And on that front, there is a mountain of it when it comes to witness testimony from highly credible sources, to the point where we have to face one of three realities...

    1) Some of the most credible officials and pilots in our government are being duped by one of the most complex psyops in all of human history, lasting decades, one that involves man-made technology generations ahead of where we are publicly.

    2) Some of the most credible officials and pilots in our government are suffering from mass psychosis, a form of mass psychosis that somehow has the ability to either directly affect satellite and radar data, or at least our perception of satellite and radar data.

    - or -

    3) The phenomenon is real, i.e. we're dealing non-human intelligence, either extra-terrestrial, ultra-terrestrial, or inter-dimensional in nature (if not all three).

    Either way, it's one of the biggest stories in human history.

    Personally, at this point, frankly, I chalk up reactions like this as nothing more than the death rattle of skepticism. I get that this is going to be hard for a number of people to swallow, and I get the gut reaction to dismiss it outright. But if you truly look into what's happening right now, and truly consider who is saying and confirming what, there is absolutely no denying that this is an incredibly massive story, one that I personally believe is the third option above, based on myriad circumstantial and corroborating evidence.

    As for the whole photo/video thing, when was the last time you captured on your phone a car wreck happening in real time? And even if you did, these "car wrecks" are thousands of feet away, if not hundreds of miles and away. So of course the footage is going to be blurry.

    That said, there are dozens of credible videos out there, like the below, that are far more than just blurry dots in the sky...


    Redstone
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    AG
    Now we're talking. Great videos.

    Either real, and astounding, or a marvelous fake, in which case - respect.
    Rocagnante
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    People will believe what they want. There's better evidence aliens are real than Trump had the election stolen yet millions believe that bs.


    TCTTS
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    Very true.

    I used to think we *might* have this all worked out by 2030, but things are moving so fast now, and in such a convincing manner, that I wouldn't be surprised if we have confirmation of NHI tech, on this planet, by 2025.

    Whether that happens or not, I don't even sweat the skeptics anymore. We'll all know soon enough.
    Houston Lee
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    Rocagnante said:

    People will believe what they want. There's better evidence aliens are real than Trump had the election stolen yet millions believe that bs.



    Santa Claus. The lie that the entire world tells kids. When the kids realize or are informed that Santa Claus isn't real, they JOIN IN on repeating the lie.

    It's a lie that is passed down from generation to generation. They have kids so convinced Santa is real, that the news weather man comes on TV to track Santa and his sleigh, which solidifies their belief. The most trusted people in your life (Your parents) tell you this lie and go to extreme lengths to make you believe.

    So, if people and society will go all in on such a lie about a trivial thing like "Santa is real", then what could they do about telling a lie that is so serious and such a big cover up as the existence of aliens.

    Think about it. What do you really know and how do you know it?

    Did you learn everything you know from seeing it yourself? Or did someone else tell you? Or did you read it in a book or see it on TV? What do you really know?
    Ghost of Bisbee
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    AG
    Those videos aren't convincing from my pov
    TXAG 05
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    Ghost of Bisbee said:

    Those videos aren't convincing from my pov


    Agreed. I'm pretty open to ufos but those videos looks really fake.
    Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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    Rocagnante said:

    People will believe what they want. There's better evidence aliens are real than Trump had the election stolen yet millions believe that bs.



    Joes
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    It's all just a variation of religious belief. I've been told "You have to want to believe" multiple times from enthusiasts. That says it all.

    When you want to believe then black and white fuzzy dots and anecdotal stories from people who know someone who say they saw something become "compelling hard evidence" and all the validation these people need.

    For those of us that think critically this is all just children playing pretend.

    It's part of the endless escapist fantasy. Alien spaceships are buzzing our cities, there are alien bases on the far side of the moon, there are dinosaurs still living in Africa, anachronistic old photos show time travelers, lizard people run our government (Ok, these days that may have some credibility, haha!), the earth is hollow, ghosts are real, Bigfoot is real, etc. It's all shared fantasy.

    The other thing that gives all this away as being silly is that for every level of supposed truth there's someone who will say "No, no, that's just what they want you to believe, there's more going on behind that!"

    It's a weird sort of arms race where everyone is desperate to feel like they're in on some secret that only they know.

    "It's aliens!"

    "No, it's the government that wants you to think there are aliens!"

    "No, it's real aliens who run the government who want to hide the aliens!"

    "No, it's government psyops to make people think there are aliens who are in the government who are covering up aliens to distract the citizens from the real fact that other aliens are all running this as a simulation!"


    And so these people convince themselves that their fantasies make them smarter than everyone else. And meanwhile, if someone in the government says something they like then they're "finally coming clean" and if they say something they don't like then it's "more coverup."


    There's nothing harmful about this on a grand scale I guess, but nothing will ever come of it except more stories and more "investigative journalists" that are very happy to sell you books for decade after decade.

    Please let me know when you find something real, I'll be interested.
    TCTTS
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    Rocagnante
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    AG
    The fact that the US government has for the first time ever confirmed that UAPs are real doesn't interest you?

    They're not saying aliens, but they have confirmed strange objects are violating our airspace, moving in ways we don't understand and we don't know what they are.

    So either it's all an elaborate ruse or the objects are real. I'm couching this in terms of the past 4 years.
    Joes
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    They've confirmed what exactly? That they haven't identified everything ever seen yet? It would be very interesting if true, but I've never seen anything remotely compelling.
    Joes
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    It just seems that until something way more substantial comes along that the assumption should be that it's a combination of fakes and experimental objects that are 100% of human origin.
    Redstone
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    AG
    Military and contractors with first-hand testimony are now putting themselves in legal liability for the sake of disclosure.

    This is a major development.
    Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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    AG
    Quote:

    The fact that the US government has for the first time ever confirmed that UAPs are real doesn't interest you?


    You'll have to forgive him for not fully trusting the entity that has needlessly classified over a billion documents.

    Hope these sources are ET board approved.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/briefing/classified-documents-government.html

    https://www.npr.org/2023/01/19/1149906531/classified-documents-biden-trump-matthew-connelly-declassification-engine

    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-feds-spend-11-billion-a-year-classifying-secret-intelligence-that-really-isnt-all-that-secretive-2012-8

    Serious question…where does all this blind faith in government come from?
    Joes
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    TCTTS said:

    howitzercannon said:

    The absolute best evidence that anyone can find or produce is blurry pictures. Do you know why? Because as soon as we get clearer pictures, we know what it is and isn't a story. So we never keep track of all the times a blurry picture we thought was an alien space craft but once clarity hit it wasn't worth keeping record of.


    When there are phones and cameras and satellites covering the entire globe with competing governments that don't like each other, and none of them are saying one thing or another for UFOs….come on.

    We get the random 1 time shot of meteors hitting on dash cams in russia, police body cams capturing cool aerial phenomena. And we can't get a single clean pic of a UAP? Is it because once identified 10 out of 10 times we know what it is?

    So we all sit around and go, "hey! What's that? I don't know, must be aliens." And move one with our day without any further thoughts it seems.

    Eh, you're conveniently limiting evidence to only photos and videos, when circumstantial evidence is admissible in court. And on that front, there is a mountain of it when it comes to witness testimony from highly credible sources, to the point where we have to face one of three realities...

    1) Some of the most credible officials and pilots in our government are being duped by one of the most complex psyops in all of human history, lasting decades, one that involves man-made technology generations ahead of where we are publicly.

    2) Some of the most credible officials and pilots in our government are suffering from mass psychosis, a form of mass psychosis that somehow has the ability to either directly affect satellite and radar data, or at least our perception of satellite and radar data.

    - or -

    3) The phenomenon is real, i.e. we're dealing non-human intelligence, either extra-terrestrial, ultra-terrestrial, or inter-dimensional in nature (if not all three).

    Either way, it's one of the biggest stories in human history.

    Personally, at this point, frankly, I chalk up reactions like this as nothing more than the death rattle of skepticism. I get that this is going to be hard for a number of people to swallow, and I get the gut reaction to dismiss it outright. But if you truly look into what's happening right now, and truly consider who is saying and confirming what, there is absolutely no denying that this is an incredibly massive story, one that I personally believe is the third option above, based on myriad circumstantial and corroborating evidence.

    As for the whole photo/video thing, when was the last time you captured on your phone a car wreck happening in real time? And even if you did, these "car wrecks" are thousands of feet away, if not hundreds of miles and away. So of course the footage is going to be blurry.

    That said, there are dozens of credible videos out there, like the below, that are far more than just blurry dots in the sky...



    What? There are approximately 10 billion hours' worth of unmistakable examples of this in high definition without any ambiguity at all because they're actually real. The dudes in Las Vegas recently said that 10 foot aliens landed in their backyard, not hundreds of miles away. Fine, let's see them.
    Joes
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    Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

    Quote:

    The fact that the US government has for the first time ever confirmed that UAPs are real doesn't interest you?


    You'll have to forgive him for not fully trusting the entity that has needlessly classified over a billion documents.

    Hope these sources are ET board approved.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/briefing/classified-documents-government.html

    https://www.npr.org/2023/01/19/1149906531/classified-documents-biden-trump-matthew-connelly-declassification-engine

    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-feds-spend-11-billion-a-year-classifying-secret-intelligence-that-really-isnt-all-that-secretive-2012-8

    Serious question…where does all this blind faith in government come from?

    Beats the hell out of me, I don't trust anything they do. But some of you guys conveniently trust them entirely when they say what you want to hear. The one thing that's absolutely dependable about the government though is that it is completely incompetent and yet you guys assign godlike powers to them.

    Edited to clarify "some of" you guys.
    Rocagnante
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    AG
    Joes said:

    They've confirmed what exactly? That they haven't identified everything ever seen yet? It would be very interesting if true, but I've never seen anything remotely compelling.


    That UAPs are real objects. Not necessarily aliens.

    If these people are telling the truth then that evidence does exist but it's not being released.

    Joes
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    Rocagnante said:

    Joes said:

    They've confirmed what exactly? That they haven't identified everything ever seen yet? It would be very interesting if true, but I've never seen anything remotely compelling.


    That UAPs are real objects. Not necessarily aliens.

    If these people are telling the truth then that evidence does exist but it's not being released.


    I fully accept that people, including those in government, see things they can't identify. That's only common sense.

    But that's not what most of these claims are, the claims are specific about alien craft the size of a stadium in our possession and "many different morphologies" of alien bodies and 10 foot aliens landing in people's yards and such.
    Rocagnante
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    AG
    I'm talking about the objects our Navy pilots purportedly see on a regular basis. If true, then they could probably shoot our planes out of the sky at will if they turn hostile.

    Either they're lying or UAPs are real objects. At this point I'm still leaning towards lying until better visual evidence is presented and confirmed and more people still acting in official government/contractor capacities come forward.
    Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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    AG
    Rocagnante said:

    The fact that the US government has for the first time ever confirmed that UAPs are real doesn't interest you?

    They're not saying aliens, but they have confirmed strange objects are violating our airspace, moving in ways we don't understand and we don't know what they are.

    So either it's all an elaborate ruse or the objects are real. I'm couching this in terms of the past 4 years.


    " Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
    TCTTS
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    AG
    • The Senate Intelligence Committee simply doesn't insert unprecedented language into the Intelligence Authorization Act, and make the laws that they have (outlined above for 2024, and also the Whistleblower Act of this year) without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Senators like Kirsten Gillbrand and Marco Rubio (along with multiple others) simply don't go on the record saying the things they've said without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Highly reputable government officials like David Grusch, Lue Elizondo, Christopher Mellon, and others simply don't come forward, risking their careers and reputations in the ways they have, without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Grusch, especially, simply doesn't come forward, under oath, risking fines and prison, literally challenging the Senate to look into his claims, without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Countless credible military pilots and radar technicians, especially the Top Gun pilots and radar technician involved the 2004 Nimitz encounter, simply don't come forward, risking their careers and reputations in the ways they have, without having seen *something* compelling first.

    At this point, to believe that all of these people are either lunatics, gullible, or lying strains more credulity than actually believing in aliens.

    Something unprecedented is happening right now.

    Whether it's A) our tech that is somehow generations ahead, and capable of breaking the known laws of physics, B) an unprecedented, massively complex, decades-long government psyop, or 3) actual NHI… either way, it's the story of the millennium.

    Given everything we know, to dismiss it as anything less is pure ignorance/hubris.
    TCTTS
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    AG
    Joes said:

    TCTTS said:

    howitzercannon said:

    The absolute best evidence that anyone can find or produce is blurry pictures. Do you know why? Because as soon as we get clearer pictures, we know what it is and isn't a story. So we never keep track of all the times a blurry picture we thought was an alien space craft but once clarity hit it wasn't worth keeping record of.


    When there are phones and cameras and satellites covering the entire globe with competing governments that don't like each other, and none of them are saying one thing or another for UFOs….come on.

    We get the random 1 time shot of meteors hitting on dash cams in russia, police body cams capturing cool aerial phenomena. And we can't get a single clean pic of a UAP? Is it because once identified 10 out of 10 times we know what it is?

    So we all sit around and go, "hey! What's that? I don't know, must be aliens." And move one with our day without any further thoughts it seems.

    Eh, you're conveniently limiting evidence to only photos and videos, when circumstantial evidence is admissible in court. And on that front, there is a mountain of it when it comes to witness testimony from highly credible sources, to the point where we have to face one of three realities...

    1) Some of the most credible officials and pilots in our government are being duped by one of the most complex psyops in all of human history, lasting decades, one that involves man-made technology generations ahead of where we are publicly.

    2) Some of the most credible officials and pilots in our government are suffering from mass psychosis, a form of mass psychosis that somehow has the ability to either directly affect satellite and radar data, or at least our perception of satellite and radar data.

    - or -

    3) The phenomenon is real, i.e. we're dealing non-human intelligence, either extra-terrestrial, ultra-terrestrial, or inter-dimensional in nature (if not all three).

    Either way, it's one of the biggest stories in human history.

    Personally, at this point, frankly, I chalk up reactions like this as nothing more than the death rattle of skepticism. I get that this is going to be hard for a number of people to swallow, and I get the gut reaction to dismiss it outright. But if you truly look into what's happening right now, and truly consider who is saying and confirming what, there is absolutely no denying that this is an incredibly massive story, one that I personally believe is the third option above, based on myriad circumstantial and corroborating evidence.

    As for the whole photo/video thing, when was the last time you captured on your phone a car wreck happening in real time? And even if you did, these "car wrecks" are thousands of feet away, if not hundreds of miles and away. So of course the footage is going to be blurry.

    That said, there are dozens of credible videos out there, like the below, that are far more than just blurry dots in the sky...



    What? There are approximately 10 billion hours' worth of unmistakable examples of this in high definition without any ambiguity at all because they're actually real. The dudes in Las Vegas recently said that 10 foot aliens landed in their backyard, not hundreds of miles away. Fine, let's see them.


    Forget the videos. I only showed the two I did in order to present examples that were more than just blurry dots in the sky. Are they authentic? I have no idea, and it's ultimately beside the larger point.

    Also, no one believes the Las Vegas aliens-in-the-backyard thing. That crap was clearly a hoax. To keep bringing it up as if it's some kind of gotcha is disingenuous.

    Again, focus on the incredibly compelling circumstantial evidence that has been outlined in this thread.
    Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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    AG
    TCTTS said:

    • The Senate Intelligence Committee simply doesn't insert unprecedented language into the Intelligence Authorization Act, and make the laws that they have (outlined above for 2024, and also the Whistleblower Act of this year) without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Senators like Kirsten Gillbrand and Marco Rubio (along with multiple others) simply don't go on the record saying the things they've said without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Highly reputable government officials like David Grusch, Lue Elizondo, Christopher Mellon, and others simply don't come forward, risking their careers and reputations in the ways they have, without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Grusch, especially, simply doesn't come forward, under oath, risking fines and prison, literally challenging the Senate to look into his claims, without knowing/seeing *something* compelling first.
    • Countless credible military pilots and radar technicians, especially the Top Gun pilots and radar technician involved the 2004 Nimitz encounter, simply don't come forward, risking their careers and reputations in the ways they have, without having seen *something* compelling first.

    At this point, to believe that all of these people are either lunatics, gullible, or lying strains more credulity than actually believing in aliens.

    Something unprecedented is happening right now.

    Whether it's A) our tech that is somehow generations ahead, and capable of breaking the known laws of physics, B) an unprecedented, massively complex, decades-long government psyop, or 3) actual NHI… either way, it's the story of the millennium.

    Given everything we know, to dismiss it as anything less is pure ignorance/hubris.


    You're still making an argument of faith (something I've seen you mock on this board) and not evidence.

    Reading the tea leaves, obviously something is up but again…people will need to see actual evidence and not take the government's word for it. Why is that so crazy to you?
    TCTTS
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    AG
    Sooo... we both believe that *something* is up.

    What are you going on about then?

    I don't expect everyone to immediately agree "it's aliens," and I've made that beyond apparent.

    What's crazy to me is discounting all of this as *nothing*. That's what I have a problem with.

    But you and I clearly agree that's not the case.
    Redstone
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    AG
    Someone go ahead and deny that objects have defied the known laws of gravity. On film. Multiple times. With military testimonies.

    That's the point of the thread. Something is going on.
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