I want it to be Saruman and I want to see his corruption!TXAG 05 said:AgE2theBONE said:Quincey P. Morris said:
The Stranger is Gandalf. Anything else is wishful thinking.
You may be right, and if I was forced to place a wager with a gun to my head, I'd go with Gandalf.
But there are some (however slight) reasons for thinking it possible they're implying he might be Gandalf but is nevertheless another wizard. If he really were Gandalf, why not make that clear in the finale? If the goal is to draw in casual viewers for next season who love the character--since that would be the only reason to make him Gandalf--why leave it unspoken?
I don't know. They deliberately gave a ton of hints that Halbrand was Sauron and then many of us were sure it was just a red herring, only for it turn out to be a case of "well, they made it obvious!" So if they're consistent in that regard he'll definitely be Gandalf.
I'm in the same boat. My gut says it's Gandalf since he is the name everyone knows. On the other hand, they came right out and said "this dude is Sauron" so I would think they would have done the same if it was Gandalf. Saruman would be interesting, they could show his corruption to the dark side/Sauron.
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However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Pretty much. His thirst for knowledge drove him to jealousy and finally to evil.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Ironically it was similar to Count Dooku.
So what you're saying is that Tolkien totally ripped off George Lucas, as I have long suspected.powerbelly said:Pretty much. His thirst for knowledge drove him to jealousy and finally to evil.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Ironically it was similar to Count Dooku.
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Exactly.The Porkchop Express said:So what you're saying is that Tolkien totally ripped off George Lucas, as I have long suspected.powerbelly said:Pretty much. His thirst for knowledge drove him to jealousy and finally to evil.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Ironically it was similar to Count Dooku.
I was thinking along these same lines. That the Stranger could actually be Saruman and not Gandalf since Gandalf was never claimed to have gone east. Plus if this is the first wizard in Middle Earth (I would assume that this is the case but not verified) than it would make sense that it's Saruman.
I just think they made it way too obvious.KCup17 said:
I was thinking along these same lines. That the Stranger could actually be Saruman and not Gandalf since Gandalf was never claimed to have gone east. Plus if this is the first wizard in Middle Earth (I would assume that this is the case but not verified) than it would make sense that it's Saruman.
Would love to get the input from people who never read the books but have seen the movies and watch this show. I've only read the books once and it was about 20 years ago, so I'm more or less close to this group.
There were a couple of callouts in that last episode, and a couple more within the whole first season, that make it seem that this guy can't be anyone but Gandalf. Off the top of my head:
- Whispering to the lightning bugs or whatever it was he did in that early episode
- "Follow your nose"
- He gave a whole monologue to Nori about adventures and/or journeying that was spot on with a similar convo he had in LOTR with Frodo I believe
I would love for it to be Saruman, but I am convinced that it is Gandalf.
Except the lines in the Lord of the Rings are perfectly executed and taken from Tolkien, himself. They had much greater weight and significance than this show's lines. My favorite lines from the entire trilogy.Chipotlemonger said:He gave a whole monologue to Nori about adventures and/or journeying that was spot on with a similar convo he had in LOTR with Frodo I believe
I'm not downplaying the original usage at all. This recent dialogue is just way too similar to ignore.DallasTeleAg said:Except the lines in the Lord of the Rings are perfectly executed and taken from Tolkien, himself. They had much greater weight and significance than this show's lines. My favorite lines from the entire trilogy.Chipotlemonger said:He gave a whole monologue to Nori about adventures and/or journeying that was spot on with a similar convo he had in LOTR with Frodo I believe
powerbelly said:Pretty much. His thirst for knowledge drove him to jealousy and finally to evil.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Ironically it was similar to Count Dooku.
If I remember correctly, Sauron was able to corrupt Saruman via the palantri (seeing stones). Saruman's hubris, his belief that he could successfully wield the ring, might have contributed to this as well.
I found it very satisfying that Christopher Lee played both Saruman & Count Dooku.
And a scary ass Dracula if you were watching the old movies on Sunday afternoon.IIIHorn said:powerbelly said:Pretty much. His thirst for knowledge drove him to jealousy and finally to evil.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Ironically it was similar to Count Dooku.
If I remember correctly, Sauron was able to corrupt Saruman via the palantri (seeing stones). Saruman's hubris, his belief that he could successfully wield the ring, might have contributed to this as well.
I found it very satisfying that Christofer Lee played both Saruman & Count Dooku.
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I feel like Saruman gets a bad rap because he genetically enhanced Orc DNA, started the industrial revolution, and doesn't care for wastrel weed smoking wizards. He probably would have done great things with the ring.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
And a bunch of pulp boys trespassed on his property and should have been condemned as environmental terrorists. Taxpayer money paid for that dam to be built, you ****s!Faustus said:I feel like Saruman gets a bad rap because he genetically enhanced Orc DNA, started the industrial revolution, and doesn't care for wastrel weed smoking wizards. He probably would have done great things with the ring.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Life is better with a beagle
IIIHorn said:powerbelly said:Pretty much. His thirst for knowledge drove him to jealousy and finally to evil.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Ironically it was similar to Count Dooku.
If I remember correctly, Sauron was able to corrupt Saruman via the palantri (seeing stones). Saruman's hubris, his belief that he could successfully wield the ring, might have contributed to this as well.
I found it very satisfying that Christopher Lee played both Saruman & Count Dooku.
Imagine me at 13 having never heard of this man, and suddenly he's a villain in my two favorite franchises, and then coming to learn what a real life badass this guy was.
This dude is in the pantheon of incredible lives lived among actors.
His metal album about Charlemagne isn't terrible, either.Brian Earl Spilner said:IIIHorn said:powerbelly said:Pretty much. His thirst for knowledge drove him to jealousy and finally to evil.DallasTeleAg said:
However, hasn't Saruman always been a jealous Maia? He has never been portrayed as good and caring for others as Gandalf.
Ironically it was similar to Count Dooku.
If I remember correctly, Sauron was able to corrupt Saruman via the palantri (seeing stones). Saruman's hubris, his belief that he could successfully wield the ring, might have contributed to this as well.
I found it very satisfying that Christopher Lee played both Saruman & Count Dooku.
Imagine me at 13 having never heard of this man, and suddenly he's a villain in my two favorite franchises, and then coming to learn what a real life badass this guy was.
This dude is in the pantheon of incredible lives lived among actors.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Imagine me at 13 having never heard of this man, and suddenly he's a villain in my two favorite franchises, and then coming to learn what a real life badass this guy was.
This dude is in the pantheon of incredible lives lived among actors.
Did Saruman actually join sides with Sauron, or was he working for himself and got kind of caught up in Sauron's snares?
He aligned himself with Sauron, but he wanted the Ring for himself.redline248 said:
Did Saruman actually join sides with Sauron, or was he working for himself and got kind of caught up in Sauron's snares?
He served Sauron in order to get the ring for himself and supplant him once he got it.redline248 said:
Did Saruman actually join sides with Sauron, or was he working for himself and got kind of caught up in Sauron's snares?
I liked this show a lot more than House of Dragons
Spaceball 1 said:
I think it's Gandalf and it would explain his affinity for Hobbits
You can add to it that the harfoots sang a song with the lyrics "not all who wander are lost". This could've been where Gandalf first heard that phrase and then included it in the poem in Lord of the Rings.
I'm thinking what are some of the major events we still have to see in this series:
Things we'll for sure see:
Building of Barad-dur
Forging of the dwarven rings
Forging of the rings for Men
Forging of the One Ring
Founding of Gondor
Destruction of Numenor
Last Alliance of Elves and Men
Isildur cutting off the One Ring
Things we might see:
Creation of the Black Gate?
Founding of Arnor?
Corruption of the Nazgul?
Durin's Bane reeking havoc in Moria (almost think this is a certainty)
Building of Orthanc? (probably not as it's a 3rd Age creation)
Founding of the Shire?
King of the Dead?
What other events are we likely to see? There's so much fan service that can be done in a way that's not just for the sake of fan service.
Things we'll for sure see:
Building of Barad-dur
Forging of the dwarven rings
Forging of the rings for Men
Forging of the One Ring
Founding of Gondor
Destruction of Numenor
Last Alliance of Elves and Men
Isildur cutting off the One Ring
Things we might see:
Creation of the Black Gate?
Founding of Arnor?
Corruption of the Nazgul?
Durin's Bane reeking havoc in Moria (almost think this is a certainty)
Building of Orthanc? (probably not as it's a 3rd Age creation)
Founding of the Shire?
King of the Dead?
What other events are we likely to see? There's so much fan service that can be done in a way that's not just for the sake of fan service.
So they didn't really follow through on what Isildur's sister is doing after the secret passage opened up. I'm guessing that they are basically taking the lore around Isildur and are splitting it up between him and his sister.
She will play a much bigger role in Numenor than it seemed in the beginning.
She will play a much bigger role in Numenor than it seemed in the beginning.
I feel like the language was something like Sauron openly contacted Saruman through the Palantirs once he returned to Mordor and Saruman tried to challenge him then and there in terms of power / magic, but realized Sauron had more power than he did and knew a lot more about where the Ring might be so he submitted, but definitely with the idea of only serving until he could find the Ring himself.powerbelly said:He served Sauron in order to get the ring for himself and supplant him once he got it.redline248 said:
Did Saruman actually join sides with Sauron, or was he working for himself and got kind of caught up in Sauron's snares?
If Bilbo hadn't found the ring, would it have been easier or harder for Sauron or Saruman to find it had it stayed with Golumn?
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I liked and didn't like how fast the creation of the Elven rings were done with Sauron's influence.
On one hand I liked all the events leading up to the forging of them and finding themselves at Eregion. On the other hand, it felt like it was rushed. It could have been done in two episodes, but I think with every LOTR nerd knowing Sauron helped forge the rings of power the suspense would have been non-existent if it dragged on much longer than it did. As soon as Halbrand showed up in Celebrimbor's forge when he was supposed to be resting and before he even said a word, I knew he was Sauron. So I guess why drag it out if someone like me (someone who knows a little bit but not near as much as some of you) was able to figure it out right then.
I'm sure most of y'all figured it out as soon as you knew where Galadriel was taking Halbrand to be healed.
I didn't like how fast it was done either. We went from the Elves need to leave, to making a crown will save the Elves, to making 2 rings, to the actual forging of 3 rings in one 70 minute episode.
On one hand I liked all the events leading up to the forging of them and finding themselves at Eregion. On the other hand, it felt like it was rushed. It could have been done in two episodes, but I think with every LOTR nerd knowing Sauron helped forge the rings of power the suspense would have been non-existent if it dragged on much longer than it did. As soon as Halbrand showed up in Celebrimbor's forge when he was supposed to be resting and before he even said a word, I knew he was Sauron. So I guess why drag it out if someone like me (someone who knows a little bit but not near as much as some of you) was able to figure it out right then.
I'm sure most of y'all figured it out as soon as you knew where Galadriel was taking Halbrand to be healed.
I didn't like how fast it was done either. We went from the Elves need to leave, to making a crown will save the Elves, to making 2 rings, to the actual forging of 3 rings in one 70 minute episode.
Yep. The pacing of the show was great for the whole season until this last episode.Legal Custodian said:
I didn't like how fast it was done either. We went from the Elves need to leave, to making a crown will save the Elves, to making 2 rings, to the actual forging of 3 rings in one 70 minute episode.
I don't understand why they would make the rings at all if the guy showing them how to make them and having them subcribe to his Tips and Tricks YouTube channel on smithing is Sauron. If I find out the guy helping me make Thanksgiving dinner is a mass murderer, I don't go ahead and use his recipes and ingredients after he runs off.
Life is better with a beagle
Eh, I didn't mind the pacing at all.Legal Custodian said:
I liked and didn't like how fast the creation of the Elven rings were done with Sauron's influence.
On one hand I liked all the events leading up to the forging of them and finding themselves at Eregion. On the other hand, it felt like it was rushed. It could have been done in two episodes, but I think with every LOTR nerd knowing Sauron helped forge the rings of power the suspense would have been non-existent if it dragged on much longer than it did. As soon as Halbrand showed up in Celebrimbor's forge when he was supposed to be resting and before he even said a word, I knew he was Sauron. So I guess why drag it out if someone like me (someone who knows a little bit but not near as much as some of you) was able to figure it out right then.
I'm sure most of y'all figured it out as soon as you knew where Galadriel was taking Halbrand to be healed.
I didn't like how fast it was done either. We went from the Elves need to leave, to making a crown will save the Elves, to making 2 rings, to the actual forging of 3 rings in one 70 minute episode.
I felt all the steps with Halbrand/Sauron were very natural - I could see it happening that way in real life. You tend to work harder/faster when some new spark is discovered.
The going from a crown to 2 rings, then to 3 doesn't seem that crazy to me to be decided all that quickly. The crown immediately gets shot down by a wise leader who recognizes 1 with that much power is a bad idea. Ok, so then we'll go 2 rings. Then one has an event that alters their thinking and they offer up a more wise suggestion of making 3. Seems pretty natural to me.
The only issue I had with the episode is I wasn't very clear how the little bit of Mithril could save them all when they thought they needed a lot more of it. Maybe I missed it.
I can understand. They still need something to save the race of Elves, but if it's made by them and only touched by them, the power of the rings cannot be corrupted. A ring is easy to conceal too.The Porkchop Express said:
I don't understand why they would make the rings at all if the guy showing them how to make them and having them subcribe to his Tips and Tricks YouTube channel on smithing is Sauron. If I find out the guy helping me make Thanksgiving dinner is a mass murderer, I don't go ahead and use his recipes and ingredients after he runs off.
Beat40 said:I can understand. They still need something to save the race of Elves, but if it's made by them and only touched by them, the power of the rings cannot be corrupted. A ring is easy to conceal too.The Porkchop Express said:
I don't understand why they would make the rings at all if the guy showing them how to make them and having them subcribe to his Tips and Tricks YouTube channel on smithing is Sauron. If I find out the guy helping me make Thanksgiving dinner is a mass murderer, I don't go ahead and use his recipes and ingredients after he runs off.
Exactly.
They had no choice but to make the rings.
Beat40 said:
The only issue I had with the episode is I wasn't very clear how the little bit of Mithril could save them all when they thought they needed a lot more of it. Maybe I missed it.
They thought they needed a ton, until the idea of finding a way to amplify the mithril's power was proposed, thus the need for the creation of the crown, and ultimately the rings.
I gotta admit, even though a lot of people hated the idea of the elves "fading" and needing the mithril, it provided a perfectly plausible need for the elves to create the rings.
The perfect example of why certain things need to be added/changed for an adaptation.
The Porkchop Express said:
I don't understand why they would make the rings at all if the guy showing them how to make them and having them subcribe to his Tips and Tricks YouTube channel on smithing is Sauron. If I find out the guy helping me make Thanksgiving dinner is a mass murderer, I don't go ahead and use his recipes and ingredients after he runs off.
But what if you were going to have to take a permanent vacation to Elvish Florida if you didnt?
JJxvi said:The Porkchop Express said:
I don't understand why they would make the rings at all if the guy showing them how to make them and having them subcribe to his Tips and Tricks YouTube channel on smithing is Sauron. If I find out the guy helping me make Thanksgiving dinner is a mass murderer, I don't go ahead and use his recipes and ingredients after he runs off.
But what if you were going to have to take a permanent vacation to Elvish Florida if you didnt?
Really want to see Elves in jorts now.
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